A thread over at the AVS Forums has highlighted a potential problem with the coating of
Blu-ray discs, described by many as "disc rot" due to the mould-like spots that have made several owner's Blu-ray discs unplayable. The five page thread has reports from dozens of forum members, many of them discovering spots which can't be rubbed off on Blu-ray versions of "The Prestige." It's impossible to judge how widespread the problem is from a single forum thread, although it's not unheard of to see a product
recall after a problem is discovered by users on a forum. It's also worth noting that for every user that has reported the spots, there's one or more people with discs that have no problem. If you've encountered the same issue, your best policy is to try and get a refund / replacement disc from the place where you originally bought it from. If enough people are reporting a problem, then retailers will be a much stronger voice than a bunch of consumers sounding off in the echo chamber that is "the internet."
posted June 16th 2007 6:11PM
Professional... blog?
Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
Yeah, seems like a problem with the humidity--I've had this happen with other discs--the laminate on the top of the disc (the reflective stuff that lets the laser bounce back) becomes unstuck from the surface in small parts and creates bubbles which render the disc unusable. That's why it's always worse to have a laminate scratch than an actual scratch on the covering.
To everybody who has a rotten dvd, hddvd, bluray, etc... Did you buy them from Ebay? After all, maybe cheap clones are already out for the new HD format????
The unsettling thing is that this is being discovered within months (weeks?) of disc acquisition. Is it a phenomenon which can develop more slowly? Would that result in an exponentially worsening situation as time progresses? I have some real concern here, as I have personally invested no small amount of change in Blu-ray (primarily in the form of an expensive player which ostensibly plays games as well).
On the flipside, every HD-DVD is dual layer and I can't say I've read about disc rot for that format. And it's been out much longer.
This is not a Blu-ray specific problem or related to the coating on Blu-ray discs. According to this article on wikipedia, this is a long documented issue that has been happening since the 1980's with compact discs. This article also explains that this has been a serious problem with laserdiscs and has appeared on HD-DVD discs as well. See the article for specifics... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_rot
"this is a long documented issue that has been happening since the 1980's with compact discs."
And for CDs and DVDs, these issues have LONG ago been solved. They are simple manufacturing process problems that happened in limited numbers early on. Much as people would like to believe, CD and DVD "disc rot" did occur, but was never a widespread problem.
who cares. Optical media(dvd, cd, hddvd bddvd) is going to be replace by flash storage or harddrive ones movies with high quality audio video and less DRM appears. Also fast transfer of these movie will be the death of optical media.
Yeah. Meanwhile, in the ensuing five years or so, while HDTV remains the hottest new thing to buy for Xmas, something has to come along and fill that big quality HD blank. Such contenders are the focus of this topic.
Maybe this is Sony's latest attempt at DRM: make the discs unplayable.
i live in ny all my bd roms are in the open even with my ac setting the room temp. to 68 i have no mold spots. people with wet hands and dirty hands are probably messing the discs up. no probs. here at all.
Cds and Dvds of all kinds will mold when exposed to a certain degree of humidity.
Looks like someone beat me to it.
Blu-bonic plague?
Blu-ray discs are made from ground-up babies. Those dots are their souls attempting to escape.
"...from the place where you originally bought it from."
This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.
meh my cds have same thing pretty much and it is humidity im sure because fine before i moved and here temps are different and whatnot.
Sony haters in their full glory. What a retarded forum thread made it to engadget...
Don't really see any Sony haters. Well, except for the one or two posts about the PS3.
Lets remember a few years back. During the DVD and DIVX "war, this came up very big on the dvd side. Divx people loved it, saying that they did not have to deal with these problems since their discs wouldnt work anyway. But DVD had major problems. Then the production company fixed the coating and only a select few discs had this problem later on. I know Gone with the Wind first run was one that was effected. But to see Rot after only a few months is very scary for the BD side. But none of the companies involved are going to jump ship bevause of it. They have invested too much time and money promoting it. It costs millions to set up a production of BD discs, where as it costs less than 1 million for the same companies to convert to HD DVD. So if they have made the change, they are not going back. In the end, it will not matter. Remember the "huge war" between DVD-R and DVD+R. Man at the beginning it sounded a lot like this. Then every version of player and burner became dual format. The same will happen here. It is not a niche market like DVD Audio and SACD were. But with Rot this early, people should be worried that a lot more discs could show this over time.
blu-ray and HD-DVD sucxx0rs, its all about HVD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc
1) Nobody cares
2) Quit whoring another site.
do i smell an HD-DVD press release...
yeah that looks like mould....
word to the wise: move out of your parent's damp basements.
CD, DVD, HD DVD, and BD all have the potential to rot, and there is wide documentation for each format. And yet somehow this spells the doom of BD. Right. Rot also doomed DVD too apparently.
No problems at all over here. Been watching and collecting since the first BR player came out.
I am not sure what kind of war this is going to be, maybe it's already happening in this blog. But seeing a better technology losing its ground to the mass is somewhat perplexing.
people, optical disc rot is nothing new, it's a problem on ALL OPTICAL DISCS (yes that includes LDs. CDs, DVDs, and even HD DVDs)
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_rot
there are also reports of HD DVD rot earlier this year, why is this even front-page worthy? Because it's cool to hate Sony?
give me a break.
This is just anecdotal crap. I have all the BDs mentioned, bought them all on day 1 and none are rotting. People somehow cease to remember that DVDs, Laserdiscs and CDs all rot eventually.
I've got 30 BDs including Stranger Than Fiction and The Prestige, and they're all just fine.
To your Blu-ray/Sony bashers (straight from another Engadget story)...
"In a huge blow to Toshiba, Universal, and the rest of the HD DVD devotees, rental giant Blockbuster has decided to stock only Blu-ray discs in the vast majority of its nationwide locations, although HD DVD titles will continue to be offered online and in the 250 (out of 1,450) stores that have been testing both formats since last year. Blockbuster VP Matthew Smith revealed to the AP that the decision to go with Blu-ray -- which will reportedly be announced tomorrow -- stemmed from an overwhelming customer preference for those titles in the test markets, accounting for over 70% of all HD discs rented. Interestingly enough, it seems that content -- and not price -- was the deciding factor for consumers, with Blu-ray-only hits such as the Spiderman and Pirates of the Caribbean films apparently outmatching equivalent HD DVD exclusives. While it's still a little too soon to declare Blu-ray the outright winner, this Blockbuster decision only contributes to the momentum that Sony's darling has had of late -- momentum that at this point, might be too difficult for the other guys to counter."
Maybe the high % of Blockbuster Blur-ray rentals are all because these poor folks can't play their own rotten discs?
Ah, thanks for the clarification, Matt. You have figured it out!
(I am guessing that you have a great sense of humor. Let me know if I am mistaken, and I can send you some "come back to reality" pills.)
;-)
Alexander: I don't know if you realize it, but LDs were by Pioneer, not Sony.
Information pulled from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc#LaserRot
"Ironically, the LaserDisc movie that has the most reported laser rot is the film Eraser (1996), as noted by the contributors of LaserDisc Database. The discs for this title were replicated by Sony Digital Audio Disc Corporation, USA, in Terre Haute, Indiana."
My god people. Its funny how the media and internet blow minuscule and inconsequential stories way out of proportion.
AVS Forum is a good resource but for every person there that actually knows something about AV equipment there are 100 people who are clueless. AVS members have a tendency to blame manufacturers for problems that are the result of their own mishandling of equipment. A few people blame TV manufacturers for 5 sets failing in their house due to power surges. If you have 5 TVs die on you within 1 month then there is something wrong with your house not the manufacturer. I also wonder if the disc rot can also be caused by cleaning agents. Placing discs on top of tables and surfaces that have been cleaned by harsh chemicals. The residue left over can be absorbed by the disc causing it to delaminate.
Discs come with a case for a reason but so many people leave them on top of stereos or on dashboards and then wonder why they don't play. I've never had a disc rot on me and I still have a few CDs from the early 90's that work perfectly. All of my BD discs are fine and I appreciate the coating because when my wife takes a disc out of the player when she decides on watching something and just slides it across the coffee table it doesn't end up with scratches on it. She ruined a couple games that way.
A very good argument for being able to backup your media that you purchase I would say. Lets face it over the years more and more optical media is being found to degrade. It ain't all about piracy (backing up purched media).
Now if only hollywood says "Sorry you have to buy it again" then we would really have a good case to get the DMCA altered to allow backups.
Wow, you think this is the end of Blu-ray because supposedly "The Prestige" is having issues with a few of its copies? Idiots. If that were the case then wouldn't the Xbox 360 already have been finished due to its numerous freezing issues? We're talking about a $30.00 movie here. The format war is already over. Blu-ray is the winner. It's all about the movie sales and Blu-ray is winning 3 to 1. I know Blockbuster isn't the hottest rental spot, but if one company is already choosing it's HD format due to current sales, then I would see many other companies doing the same pretty soon here. Plus Blu-ray has Disney. Game Over.
Can any one say fan boy??? Hey fool if you have not seen chk numbers hd dvd players are selling more and bd is more for renting. Due to the release of sub 350 hd dvd players bd sale have dropped fast. I am no fan boy for either for I prefer streaming hd so hdpvr and downloads look better at this point more future proof. So that being sony ball swinger,it is way to early to call a winner. Oh did you not see sony had a 1.9 billion loss due to issues with their certain BD player not selling. Job cuts abound and poor dude even lost his job due to the BD trojan horse not doing quite as planned and you know it. Stock holders are even losing faith and need pep talks if youve seen the press releases here on good ol engadget so please b4 you go screaming "WE WIN WE WIN" do some fact check instead of biased fanboyism fanboy......
I'm on 1280x1024, and I don't plan on switching anytime soon. As for the player, I will use software. And, coincidentally, I will probably not be using proprietary software.
First of all: The problem with the described BD´s can also happens with HD-DVD and DVD. But maybe a little bit more by the production of BD´s because oft the specification of the Blueray format !!
So far i have an overview over the postings here, it looks like a process problem with the bonding layer ( lacquer ) which holds the two bonded half disc of the optical media together. The problems with the described BD´s are looking for my that there is air ( Bubble, Bonding Gap ) inside this layer, which makes that the metall-layer will make an reaction with air and this makes that the media is after a certain time no longer readable, because the metall-layer is not any longer reflecting the laser ...
This kind of process is similar used by the production for DVD, HD-DVD and BD-R´ but with special thickness and tolerances for each format.This specification window is aspecially by BD very small defined.
But also possible is, that there is something wrong with the hardcoated side ( also with lacquer!!) which protects the surfaces of the optical media for scratches and so one...Maybe a inclusion inside of the lacquer (condamination) or also an reaction with the material of the optical media !!
This kind of surface protection is also used sometimes, also for the other optical medias like CD, DVD, HD-DVD ...
Normaly the optical media is at the end of the production checked by a quality inspection system for optical defects, and the bad discs are seperated. But so far its clear that all optical media have small optical defect but as long the size of the defects is not going over a special definded size and amount the media is still readable. (The player can remove the reading problem by using software error correction.)
So far i have an overview, there are following lines for BD-ROM production installed and running.
30 Lines for BD Single and Dual Layer by SonyDADC( for Playstation and Sony movies ). Own design.
10 Line from Oerlikon for BD-ROM and BD-R/RE which are installed at the big movie studios worldwide.
8 Lines from Singuls Technologies which are also installed at the big movie studios worldwide.
2 Lines from Singulus Technologies were comeing back from the movie studios for some reasons, which are not described, all the other 8 Lines ( most of them installed more then 2 Years) are not accepted by the companies and therefore also not payed for some not described reasons...but maybe also running for production ...
For more information about the HD-DVD and BD-R process, i have found some interessting links, aspecially from Singulus, because thats the bigest producer of replication-lines for optical medias.
Please search for following key-words:
mtc06_training_day1_hotz.pdf
medialine_0505.pdf
SeeYa
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