Xbox 360: refused repairs, and really high failure rate?

It looks like Xbox 360 users in the UK suffering from the dreaded Red Ring of Death now have once less option to get their console fixed, as repair specialist Micromart recently announced that it'll no longer fix the consoles, calling the problem "endemic." While it will apparently still perform other repairs on the console, it says that the most common of all problems just isn't feasible for them to undertake, stating that it would end up costing them around $200 for each repair and still leave them unsatisfied with the result. In related news, DailyTech recently conducted a poll of retailers in an attempt to find out just how high the Xbox 360's failure rate was, one of which reportedly pegged it to be as high as 33 percent. That number comes from a former EB Games employee, who also said that the company was forced to nearly double the price of its over-the-counter warranty prices as a result. According to DailyTech, a Best Buy manager also claimed that the failure rate was "between a quarter to a third" of all units sold, although it seems that those numbers are based only on personal experience.

Read - DailyTech, "Console Service Center Refuses to Repair Xbox 360 RROD"
Read - DailyTech, "Retailers Estimate Xbox 360 Failure Rate High as 33 Percent"

[Photo courtesy of AnandTech]

[Blake @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:09PM]

Looks like MS screwed up and is paying the price.

[Rufus @ Jul 4th 2007 12:58AM]

These sort of numbers coming from Best Buy doesn't surprise me. I have heard from and even seen where employees intentionally drop consoles and PCs, then tell customers "see, you should have gotten the extended warranty!" and turn them out. EB Games is no better either. They resell the same broken console over and over (easy test.. buy one, return it as a "Red Ring" console, then have someone watch.. It will go back on the shelf.. to be sold again....).

Truth is, both of my 360s are still running strong, and both were acquired on Launch. Everyone has different experiences in the end. Oh, and MS doesn't built them, the same company bickering did. MS should have picked a better builder.

[Dave @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:09PM]

These problems still haven't been addressed? I had hoped these numbers of high failure rates were still limited to the first run of console production, maybe second... but they've got 3 SKUs out now and they still have this problem?

Think I'll be holding out on the x360 for a good while.

[Frankenstein Black @ Jul 4th 2007 9:55AM]

Here, here. And that Black Elite was looking promising. Oh well! I think its all about PS3 now. A nice price drop and we are in there!! Come on Kaz and Howie, now's your chance!!

[EagleEyez @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:10PM]

This is ridiculous...... microsoft needs to get their act together. i never had any problems with mine but if something did happen and if i end up having to waste time and money to get it fixed i'd be choked especially after paying 499 for it

[ddaw735 @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:11PM]

Is that legal?

[humpty @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:12PM]

M$ didnt take heat management seriously... the freakin blower (it doesnt have a fan) in the PS3 is the size of the Wii.

[kingofwale @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:14PM]

*It's all just a lie Sony cooked up, every single report of Microsoft failure is made up by Sony to discredit Xbox.

*My xbox never broke

* Microsoft said the failure rate is only under 5%

--just some of the excuses we will hear soon enough.

Just fess up to the problem and fix it, Microsoft, you are screwing your OWN loyal customers.

[Hatchetforce @ Jul 5th 2007 7:33AM]

Exactly. I was the epitomy of the 360 user. I still had my original launch 360, wirelss controllers, wirteless headsets, HALO3 Zune, original Xbox, games and peripherals up the yang along with Vista, another version of HALO2 on that platform along with Shadowrun as well as 4 more 360 games prepaid including HALO3 Legendary. MS said, "We have noticed a higher than normal failure rate among launch consoles so any 360 purchased before January 1 2006 will be repaired free." Do you think they kept that promise? Nope. They told me "Pay $139 for a refurbished console that will break in a week." No thanks. I traded everything in on a PS3 and a PSP. Now I am a happy gamer. Screwing your most loyal customers is not the way to keep gmaers.

Now people like Holmdahl and even Peter Moore himself are refusing to say anything. MS is the new Sony and not in a good way. Moore actually stated, "Failures are a moving target. What actually matters to the customer is the way he is treated." Damn right.

MS had better be careful. They really don't have anything huge on the horizon after this fall. 1 Year is the period where devs start to get comfortable with a console's tools and the PS3 has better long distance legs in it. I have seen the PS3 version of GRAW 2 and it's graphics are easily superior to the 360 version. Such seemingly inconsequential signs should be harbingers of things to come. I wouldn't bet on Microsoft's plan on the Xbox division becoming profitable next year. If Sony drops the PS3 price at E3 it will be dark days ahead for Redmond.

[ScotteusMaximus @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:14PM]

my first 360 (manufactured december 2005) died on me, even though i barely played it (maybe 100 hours total). i sent it in and got a refurbed unit (november 2005). even though i played that one even less than the first one, that one just died on me yesterday, so the reports of 1/4 to 1/3 of units being defective isn't wholly surprising.

[trolleymusic @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:21PM]

Did they swap partners or manufacturing facilities or something? My original XBOX was brilliant, never had one problem with it - my 360 (YBOX) has intermittent red rings of doom but they've never stayed around long enough for my point of purchase to honour the warranty.

[Fatima @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:24PM]

I'll sell my 360 get a iPhone and wait for Ps3 price to drop and games to come out.

[Matt @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:30PM]

I've returned a grand total of one 360, and that was wholly my fault - stuffed in a hot room under my desk, etc etc.

I haven't had any problems with my second, despite marathon sessions and extended use, and nobody I know has. It's really disconcerting to hear all these reports and to have never experienced it myself. Sad.

Crossing my fingers, I guess.

[Justin @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:21PM]

I'd even say thats not your fault, unless by hot room you mean the sauna you built in your house. The 360 is a consumer device, and it should support all reasonable operating environments within a house. No excuses.

That being said, my 360 is being repaired right now. The disk drive died on me (mechanical failure). I'll be out in DC while my 360 is being repaired--hopefully it'll be back when I arrive. The only frustrating part was the Indian lady on the customer service line. It took a while for her to understand the problem (I am an engineer, maybe I didn't use the correct lay terms). It took her a while to understand that I did not have the HD-DVD drive. But all is good, I wasn't on the phone for _that_ long.

I'd like to think that Microsoft would man up to the situation, though. While individual reports can't give an accurate prediction of systemic problems, we know that somethings up. There's just too much evidence out there that theres a problem. If they don't step up and fix the problem, this is just going to get out of control. Mainstream media is going to pick this up. Do you want your brand associated with shoddy quality? (They do have Windows... maybe they don't mind).

[Clint @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:30PM]

I'm shocked they're doing that to their customers overseas. I live in the states, and my 360 recently had the ring of death, and even though it was a month past warranty, they still fixed it for free. THANK GOD!
But there is no doubt they rushed the first gens out way too quickly, hopefully next time they actually pay attention to the disc drive noise and cpu heat.

[Chris @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:31PM]

Guys dont be idiots i cant believe sites are reporting on this

the 33% report came from an EB GAMES EMPLOYEE!

Dear god since when do we start doing national and international standings as reported by your local dropout that works at EB Games!


---------

As for selling the 360 for a ps3 after price drop... with it dropping games left and right and getting worse performance... read that as ... NFL 07 60fps on 360 vs 30fps on ps3... and the fact that the beloved playstation exclusive Fatal Inertia, has been indefinitly postponed on the ps3, yet the 360 version is now releasing in what a month or 2 they said the release date already the same time they confirmed the indefinite delay of the ps3...

-----------

I have my original 360 from day 1 purchase and it works perfectly ever since then, i got 1 rrod but it was cause my cat pulled the av cable out, i plugged it in better and walla back in action... i have 12-15 friends with 360's never have had an issue.... needless to say i take microsofts hardware figures alot more reliably than an EB Games employee, considering microsoft is the one that actually in the end has to deal with the returns/refurbs/dead units worldwide, not Jimmy Bob from eb games

[Scott @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:36PM]

true, the 25%-33% figure is probably much higher than the real figure, especially since the people who buy extended EB warranties might be less likely to treat their systems with care, but the number is probably higher than microsoft's stated 3%-5% figure. consider yourself lucky that neither you nor any of your friends have had a bum unit.

[Hatchetforce @ Jul 5th 2007 7:35AM]

Well Chris, my local EB where I do all of my business and am in a clan with the manager gets 5-6 consoles back per week. How does that average out?

[Mystakill @ Jul 5th 2007 2:05PM]

By my count, I've had a 100% failure rate over *four* Xbox 360's (three in the last seven months alone). #4 arrived DOA from the service center almost two weeks ago, and it took Microsoft a week and a half to get me another shipping box (via UPS "3 day" shipping)

And don't give me any crap about how my systems are poorly-ventilated, turned from horizontal/vertical while playing, etc. I've been a gamer and consumer-electronics buff for almost 30 years; I know how to properly care for them.

The 360 is, bar-none, the biggest piece of sh!te I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. Having a service contract doesn't guarantee speedy resolution either, Microsoft's in particular has gotten significantly worse to utilize since launch.

[BruceLeroy @ Jul 5th 2007 2:57PM]

Wow...you must be Mr. Common Sense from another forum. You sound like the typical blind 360 fanboy. You're the typical consumer that M$ just loves to screw over again and again. Good for you that you're still on your original 360. Many of us are not as fortunate. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the failure rate is much too high for anyone to accept. You being the exception of course, since you're so blinded that you cannot open your mind for a second to look at both sides of the story.

[Tabascork @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:33PM]

Intercooler doesn't help the problem either. My friends 360 overheated even with an intercooler on it. I took it off and it made it MUCH quieter and it hasn't overheated since.

[Jeff @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:34PM]

These issues are, at this point, the primary reason I have not bought an Xbox 360. MS had better get their act together if they want to stay in this race.

I'm not saying people are gonna start paying $600 for a PS3 instead of $400 for a 360 because of reliability. But they might look at the $250 Wii and have a different reaction. It's hard to justify $400 on a console that you're worried might break. Even all else being equal, it's easier to justify $250 assuming the reliability was the same between both systems. But Nintendo's got a reputation for quality, and that makes the choice just that much clearer.

This issue is getting a decent amount of play in the press, and I have no doubt it's costing MS sales.

[Dan @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:35PM]

But what about the iPhone?

[Phred @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:43PM]

I wonder if this is MS's sneaky way to boost its sales figures - count the replacement units used to replace the ones that can't be repaired...

[Paul @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:48PM]

Microsoft definitely needs to get their act together and start working on the hardware issues in the 360. If they don't, they will eventually pay for it.

[AKBlade13 @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:49PM]

You know, I hate to say it, but someone could actually sue for hardware deficiency and ACTUALLY get away with it.

MS, it's about time you either STOP manufacturing until this is resolved or start putting in those faster chipsets that will solve the problem because at this rate...people are going to want to go from a 360 to a PS3.

AKBlade13

[titus pullo @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:51PM]

Is that legal?

i shall make it legal!

[Chris @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:52PM]

LOL

"Intercooler doesn't help the problem either. My friends 360 overheated even with an intercooler on it. I took it off and it made it MUCH quieter and it hasn't overheated since."

Sorry to bust your bubble their buddy... but dont even let microsoft hear that or they'll really start cussing and possibly say you voided the warranty, microsoft has said on MANY occasions that the intercoolers do more damage than anything else because they leech power from the console itself and in most cases end up hampering cooling more than they improve it.

They've said it quite a few times and made it clear.

----------------

As for the buying the 360 for 400 vs the wii at 250... if you buy a 360 for 400 your pretty idiotic at this point considering u can easily find a premium for under 300 hell

http://www.overstockdealz.com/products.asp?id=XBOX360-PREMR

that premiums 220$ maybe not the best retailer, but theirs others and many places that you can get one for under 300$....

Not to mention the real point is that unless u want a kiddy game or some puzzle game, maybe some kiddy sport games as well, then the wii might work, but otherwise its the 360 game wise... i mean the other console is the ps3 that has adultish games and ... well it doesnt have many, alot less than the 360.

On top of that what i find funny is some new games for the wii are being rumored to be on their way to the xbl arcade LOL

[john @ Jul 4th 2007 11:55AM]

No! no! no!

I would strongly advise against buying any discount xbox 360. The chance that any of these could be refurb units is just too high, and the failure rate on refurb 360s is much higher than on new ones.

[kingofwale @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:03PM]

wow, Chris, getting a "Condition: Like New, in Original Packaging." is soooo reassuring.

[Blake @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:07PM]

If i wanted to check out that site, you better believe I would remove your referral code.

[maveric101 @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:38PM]

this is such a load of crap. i own a first-wave 360, and many of my friends have 360s, and many of their friends have 360s...etc, and I have NEVER personally heard of one failing. either the estimate is way too high (i would guess MS's 5% may not be correct, but is closer than the 33% given by a highschool dropout EB employee), or the ppl w/ these boxes are treating them like crap (ie poor ventilation).

[Contrablue @ Jul 20th 2007 7:03PM]

You sound like a Marlboro smoker who hasn't had any friends die from cancer yet.

[BobTurbo @ Jul 4th 2007 12:01AM]

No wonder they are not called microhard.

[prateeko @ Jul 4th 2007 12:02AM]

Mine just died tonight. The irony...

http://www.nintendoh.com/prateeko/ign/360d/DSC00522.JPG

Best Buy Product Replacement Plan for teh win!

(Sadly, form there on out I'm buying my stuff from Costco).

[RDx @ Jul 4th 2007 4:21PM]

Got to love Costco, no questions asked on returns. And you can return it when ever you want as long as you keep your membership active.

[James @ Jul 4th 2007 12:39AM]

At the end of the day all that matters is whether I buy your product or not. People can give Sony shit for lack of games, too expensive, etc. and those are valid reasons not to buy a system.

But so is piss-poor hardware quality.

Fact is: I don't own an Xbox 360 because of this and I never will until Microsoft admits to the issue and fixes it. All the cool games in the world won't change the fact that you are ripping customers off.

[Brett @ Jul 4th 2007 12:52AM]

Apparently the "360" actually stands for the approximate number of consoles out of 1000 that will RROD.

[Neville Bartos @ Jul 4th 2007 1:16AM]

Microsoft, although considered a Software Company, is a lot better at making hardware. I mean, 33% failure rate, that's a lot better then Windows XP.

and @ kingofwale:
You say, "Upset Microsoft's loyal customers"? Dude, Microsoft isn't the kind of company that has "loyal" customers. Not over the age of 16, anyway.

[ethana2 @ Jul 4th 2007 2:11AM]

I must say that it has some loyal enemies though.

In that spirit, if anyone here wants help moving to Linux and such, I'd be very glad to help. [e-mail]

[Grant Burton @ Jul 4th 2007 1:29AM]

look at this forum if you think people are mistreating their xboxs! They are faulty people, and the millions now complaining prove it! Just cause it has not happened to you, and a few of your friends.. doesn't mean it wont!

http://forums.xbox.com/91/8347347/ShowPost.aspx#8347347

[maveric101 @ Jul 4th 2007 6:05PM]

dude. me and my friends have had ours since launch. if they haven't failed yet, they probably never will. in case you didn't know, theres a failure rate curve that works for just about everything. it starts out high, because any defects will cause a failure early on (if its gonna fail, it'll fail soon after you get it). the curve then bottoms out, and after a long flat period, it starts to raise as it reaches the products lifetime.

\ /
\ /
\ /
\____________________________/

(approximately)

[Technology Research @ Jul 4th 2007 8:22PM]

That does not explain what is going on with all the reports. Myself I had one five weeks , then it died. The second one lasted 14 months, and is now dead. Your "THEORY" does not hold up. There is no evidence to support your conclusions.

..ps.. I am NO ONES "dude" and the proper english grammar is "my Friends and I". Why am I pointing this out, it makes you sound foolish if you can not construct sentences in a proper manner.

[Revrant2394 @ Jul 4th 2007 1:32AM]

Guess that explains why it blows, eh?

Ahh...Bad puns.

[Revrant2394 @ Jul 4th 2007 1:36AM]

People mistreat their consoles.

This is yet more proof of the days of battered consoles surviving until their owners lose interest are over. The X360 does need better cooling, but the "Upgrade" which is due will fix that problem with 65mm process. The thing is, people, you can't treat these things like a NES, you can't stuff it away in a closed in space with other electronics and cords.

You can't stuff it in a cupboard, you can't stack it on top of the VCR, it's essentially a powerful computer in a small space. My friend, who treats his right, has had the same X360 since launch, he doesn't even have one of those nifty attached coolers either, he just treats it right.

Stop mistreating your consoles and they'll stop mistreating your gaming.

[Grant Burton @ Jul 4th 2007 1:47AM]

I have had all 3 xbox 360's in a dust free , air condition cooled cabinet just for the 360 . EXPLAIN to me how thats mistreating it. Get a grip, there are many many many people complaining around the world, and if you did your research, and not use the argument " my mate hasn't had a problem, so the rest of the world shouldn't" and actually done some hard fact research from shops that sell them, and got real stats you would find 20% or more are failing.

I am waiting for xbox number 4 to arrive (all under warranty) and treat it like gold, (as all of the others have been) and hope that this one doesn't blow up. Great games machine, crap build quality

[Revrant2394 @ Jul 4th 2007 4:27AM]

Low ranked while every "M$" post gets high ranked, great way to look like unbelievable idiot sheep, people.

You're telling me you have an air conditioned cabinet for the X360? I find that unbelievable, but gosh, what good would that do? The problem is it's not dispersing heat properly for how much it produces. The proper thing to do is get a little fan thing like my friend did, though I should have mentioned that in the first post.(Not that it would have mattered score-wise)

These comments are pretty disgusting, by the way, every asinine attack on MS or Xbox users is getting highest ranked while any defense is getting low ranked.

[Grant Burton @ Jul 4th 2007 1:45AM]

I Think its time we all stood as one, and sent Microsoft Directly a formal complaint about this issue. After 18 months on the market it seems clear now they do indeed have a problem, and all the winging on forums is NOT doing any good, I am sure they are not reading half the gripes on any forums around the world. You are all wasting your time and effort complaining on boards that MS dont read. So its time to make a stance and get hold of the head of xbox 360 product development, and send them directly some sort of formally worded complaint (not a law suit or legal thing), just let them know on behalf of the 3 million people who have or had broken xbox 360's we are NOT happy, and we would like to know what they are doing to fix the problem! So who can get hold of contact at MS that we can send a complaint to? and Maybe a professional to word up the content of the letter. ENGADGET, can you help???

[wako @ Jul 4th 2007 1:45AM]

I have a Xbox 360 and the system has given me the ring of death....


Of the 5 other friends I play with, they have all gotten red ring of death as well.


What is more interesting is that they ALL died about 6-8 months after the purchase including mine.

[Thirsty Fire @ Jul 4th 2007 1:47AM]

I am sure that microsoft will screw up and PS3 will win the war again.

I'm using my 4th Xbox 360 and I'm getting "to play this disc put it on xbox 360 console" error and it's getting worse.

I will buy a PS3 this time 600$ better than wasting my money on another xbox 360 console.