First Xbox 360 class-action suit filed
By Joshua Topolsky 
posted Jul 10th 2007 5:56PM
posted Jul 10th 2007 5:56PM
Like carrion to a corpse, so begins the influx of litigious Xbox owners wielding class-action lawsuits against the Redmond giant. Recently a case has been filed in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, alleging that the Xbox 360 caused scratching damage to discs during "reasonable, foreseeable, normal and intended use", and while this is the first case we've seen since the company addressed the Xbox 360's other problems, it's certainly not the first of its kind. So how much is all this disc damage worth? About $5 million, according to the claim, which makes explicit reference to the warranty extension as well as the infamous Dutch TV report on the scratching problem, and offers damning testimony from users who were unable to play their lacerated copies of Madden NFL '07. It seems unlikely that Microsoft can hold its ground on this, judging by the recent events concerning the system's build quality -- but only the country's richest lawyers know for sure.
Like what drives are these that people are getting there disc damage? I have the samsung drive and I haven't seen any damages to my games. Plus aren't these problems the disc drive manufacturers fault? As much as they can complain how its MS fault for poor design. The DVD drive itself wouldn't modified in anyway. so the blame should be passed to the drive manufacturers.
Mine would scratch when oriented vertically.... sounded like when the drive went from 16x when the system booted up to nothing it didn't slowly spin down but immediately stop and the disc would clatter around on the tray and scratch.
but then it burned out anyhow and went to Texas for it's second round of repairs.
I think people are scratching them themselves. Why is is that when I use my discs, they never get scratched, other than from normal dropping and such? It's kind of like the Zune screen cracks from the battery. People just wanted free repairs.
How come some people think that if they have a positive experience with a certain product-- whether it's a PS3, Xbox, or Apple iThing--any report of users experiencing common technical issues is illegitimate or an anomaly?
I remember when the RRoD epidemic started gaining speed some people would say "Mine works fine. All these people who are complaining just don't know how to ventilate their systems properly." Of course now we know it's an unchecked hardware issue.
I think you might be on to something, if it hasnt happned to you then it cant be true. Have you ever had malaria, or seen Angelina Jolie in real life? I'm convinced they don't exist.
Its all good... until it happens to you... then maybe you'll believe -
i think that people should be compensated around the price that they have lost... how much is a game these days $50-$60 bucks that's no where NEAR 5 million... c'mon!!!
All I'm saying is that I'm sure it's happened to some people, but others will take advantage of it. I know that when I first got mine, I moved mine with Call of Duty 2 in the disc tray. It ruined it. It was my fault though.
Personally I would rather have my Xbox 360 to play it rather than to scratch it just to have someone fix it. If you ever find someone that gets a rise out of making someone fix there system purely because its free kill them on the spot...its called logic moron use it.
What? People are scratching their own discs so that they can get them repaired for free after a court battle? Who are these idiots?
i in fact have seen Angelina Jolie in person, at the tomb raider 2 premier so i can say for a fact that she does exist...as for malaria I'm gonna have to agree with you there, it probably doesn't exist
I didn't say they scratch them just to get them fixed for free. People will get it scratched somehow, let's say by moving the console, and say "Oh, the console scratched my disc, it should be replaced for free". People will lie to get their discs for free.
Wow, People really want a sad reason to get some easy money so they sit on their fat asses some more and play more games instead of actually working. Its a sad day when someone can sue for anything no matter how trivial the problem is. Microsoft is spending 1 billion dollars to work on the problem so you dont need to waste any more money on a system except for the first time you pay for it. Just let Microsoft work on smaller chips and fixing the problem they have now without lazy bastards wanting to sue for more.
But, is it the people, or the lawyers that push these things through?
With the Epson class-action lawsuit I got... Ink Coupons! Yay! The only way to use them is to... Pay Epson More Money! Oh the irony...
I have my 360 standing vertically, and I've not had a single disc scratched despite a lot of use from launch day to present day. Maybe some of these discs are getting scratched because people aren't putting them into the drive properly if it's upright. You have to make sure it's held in place properly by the little teeth on the bottom of the tray.
Either that or people are moving it from horizontal to vertical, or vice versa, with a disc in the drive, which the sticker on the drive (when you go to use the console for the first time) says specifically not to do that.
I'm sure some of the problems are caused by faults with the drive, but I think a lot of them could be put down to user ignorance.
I had my new 360 for 2 weeks, and one day, while playing Forza 2, the system hanged and made weird noises. I opened the cd tray, looked at the cd, and there they were.. perfectly circular scratches. That was the first time that I saw them. It still happens regularly, and therefore I often get 'cd unreadable' error.
No, I wasn't moving the console. No, I haven't dropped the cd to the floor. And no, it was definitely not user's fault.
By the way, I place the console only horizontally, and it was a Samsung drive.
I know that the 360 scratches discs I've had 4 different copies of NBA 2k, but most of my games don't get scratched (or at least the effects of the scratching does not affect performance). This leads me to believe its a disc manufacturing problem, where the weight/material of certain games are not correct and it causes them to get scratched.
Also for those saying its not MS fault because they don't make the drives, do not realize that MS is responsible for anything they put in their products.
it's MS's fault because the original xbox never had this issue nor did dreamcast,PS1, PS2 or PS3
so i think MS is using some garbage just to cut costs
The problem is when you move the 360 while it is playing a disc. It happened to me when I reached around the back of the console to reconnect the crappy audio cable that shipped with the system. I barely moved it and Tiger Woods was lost forever...or until I drop another $60.....so forever.
My gears of war was scratched on the 3rd time I tried to use it. I set up my xbox360 vertically, put the disc in and then heard the unmistakeable sound of my new game being eaten by the xbox360. Now microsoft has some crappy program where they will replace the game for $20. I've tried to find somewhere that will refinish my Gears of War, but I haven't had any luck locally. Maybe I'll just rent Gears of War from Blockbusters...
Hey, if they aren't too deep, as in they aren't gouges, and just scratches, try a Game Doctor/Disc Doctor. It wet sands the imperfections off the disc and clears it up to make it readable. Just make sure you aren't skimpy with the sanding fluid.
Im on my 3rd xbox and i might play twice a week if that...... I bought the 2 yr warranty at Best busy so I just exchange it out..... but its still a pain. And who cares if they get games...... those disk cost about a dollar. they could hand them out all day long and still make money.
I think packaging and disc material costs about 10 cents or something. MS should just offer a replacement program. Send the disc and box in, get a new copy. $5 million for what, to spend on something else? That way, people don't get free copies or free money out of it.
If it's a repeating issue for a user, ie they have more than 3 discs that get scratched or something, then obviously the console will need to be repaired/replaced. The chances of getting a RROD eventually are fairly good anyway.
its like the "i have gone through 5 ps1s, 6 ps2s" when i have only gone through one of each and have even left my ps2 on for weeks at a time sometimes (al gore screaming, smashing his fist into someones face).
I don't know much about modern DVD drive mechanics... but here'a a theory:
The drives don't have a proper system to hold the disc tightly. When you boot the 360 and have it go directly to the system menu, it immediately stops the drive, but the disc still has a TON of kinetic energy and bounces in the tray since it's not being held tightly. Same reason if you bumped into your 360 while it was playing the disc easily bounces around and gets scratched.
I can burn or read a DVD in my laptop and tilt/bounce it all over the damn place and it doesn't scratch my dics. So there must be some sort of mechanism that grabs the disc when it's inserted and holds it tight enough that it never contacts tray surfaces
Try that on a PC and not laptop.
Laptop trays are dif than other drives..
The tray is the reader and spin mech on a laptop.. Also 3/4 lil spring loaded ball-bearings that hold the disk tightly..
Slot loaders and PC drive trays are very very dif..
Xbox 360 does not scratch discs, there is no systematic issue with disk scratching, all failures are within industry standards. Go back to sleep America..
Funny, all this sounds slightly familair, I just can't put my finger on it.....
A scratched disc is actually not that bad compared to the Red Ring of Death I got 2 weeks ago...is that problem also "within industry standards?"
Try reading it again. He's making the exact same point you are.
Nice Bill Hicks reference.
Oh c'mon people!!! For god's sake! If I get a CD/DVD scratched by my DVD rom I move my ass and go to the retailer and ask for a new one or my money back! I certaily wouldn't bother to file some stupid, nonsense law-suit agains, let's see... LG and sue them for $5M USD because I scratched my $50 piece of plastic plate (assiming that was a game worth $50)!
But then again, I live in Europe where law actually makes sense, most of the times anyway...
Way to go, M$
If they have numerous Xbox360s that they can show scratches discs under reasonable or foreseeable use and/or show that there is a defect in the dvd drive that may cause discs to get scratched then they have a good case and will probably win.
And the point intentionally missed by some here is that they DESERVE to win. MS isn't replacing discs, only fixing DEAD consoles. The two problems/fixes really aren't related and if you're one of the ones whose DVD's and games have been destroyed by your brand new xbox 360 and have no recourse, I'm guessing you'll be glad to get 66% of your money back.
This will settle. 360 owners with disc scratching drives will get new elites. They will get coupons for replacing media (games and dvd's). The lawyers will get a cash payment.
MS will then increase the quality of parts used in the xbox (like they're already PARTIALLY doing), and we (the consumers and CSR's) will all be happier.
Is the disc scratching really the fault of the 360? I would blame the drive manufacturer not MS.
Would it be the car manufacturer's fault if you got into an accident from faulty brakes? No it was whoever made the brakes. Now, if it was a problem due to the manufacturer's design (like the overheating and other problems with the 360), then it's the manufacturer's fault.
So, get mad at MS for bad console design that causes it to overheat, not for the drive scratching discs.
Well thats up to the Judge to decide.
It could be determined that it's Microsoft's fault for including a drive which scratches discs in their product or the Judge may decide that Microsoft is not at fault and bring the drive manufacturer on the case. The same goes for your car analogy. The car manufacturer could potentially be at fault for bad breaks included in their cars even if they don't make the brakes themselves.
wow. Lot's of contented xbox fans out here. I mean, the xbox is soooo much value for money. hahah.
Anyway, are you sure that the xbox scratched those discs? It looks more like aliens landed and made crop circles on the CDs.
It is much better value. 200 bucks less than a dust collector, and is more powerful than said dust collector.
You are one fucking retard in a sea of millions. Maybe if you try hard enough, you can become number one!
Really, the disc scratching is the fault of the user in many, many cases. They just don't want to admit it so they can put a bad light on the 360.
I will need to try very hard to beat you, Zeus, and frankly, I don't think anyone can come close to you at all. Retard.
This reminds me of when we had the Cornballer and it burned my uncle's hand. The medical bills where pricey and there was no class action lawsuit for that.
Money goes to reimburse the expenses from repairs and other things. If you read the document, it tells you in there. There is a lot of information in the document that goes into great detail about all of your questions.
BTW, why would you take the brake people down when you can take them down with the car manufacturer? The car manufacturer is the one who uses (hired) the brake people and then sold you the vehicle.
I have two scratched discs. Rainbow Six Vegas and then Guitar Hero II. I moved the Xbox360 for GH2 to get scratched (my fault), but R6V scratched without anyone touching it (which is how I learned to not have the console in the vertical position).
Whats funny about this, is this was something that was happening to launch consoles, right? If so, how the fuck is it happening to someone this late, unless they never used it?
Maybe it happened to someone, and instead of having it repaired, they sold it to say, GameStop, EB Games, or even over eBay. If so, wouldn't it be the fault of whoever sold it to them (if used) because they didn't test the system?
I think this is a load of crap, because this problem has already been solved. Either this is a REALLY old case and its just now making its way into the courts, or someone is looking for some easy money.
I am confused,if they win the law suit who get the 5 mil?
Microsoft gets the 5 million from the plaintiff. Duh. The person who is having the problems has to pay.
/sarcasm
The 10 million people who signed up for the class-action all get $.50, and can be smugly satisfied in their assumption that they have "stuck it" to the "Man".
Coincidentally, I just had my first disc ring of death today. It was my beloved Guitar Hero II disc. And for the record, I have owned the 360 since X-Mas of last year so about 7 months now, it has always been mounted horizontally. The drive itself has begun making odd noises over the last 3-4 weeks sounds like it might be on the verge of giving up the ghost. I am going to see if I can resurface the disc and salvage it.
If it happens again I will be taking advantage of the Costco lifetime guarantee.
Its about damn time someone sue MS for something... they've been slinging crap around since day one... and they knew the 360s were defective that's why they had a 6 month warranty at first. I have to admit, 360 fans are standing behind their system, if it was PS3, there would be riots in the streets.
NO.
If the PS3 were in the same situation as the Xbox with great games, great online service, etc, and the PS3 were having as many issues a the 360, the same exact thing would be occurring with the PS3 as it is happening now with the 360.
i'm confused. are you (zeus) 'saying' that the people having a problem would sue sony as well, or that the ps3 just doesn't have as many units in homes, therefore no problems reported?
Um neither. Can you read?
I'm saying that if the PS3 were in the same situation (A.K.A. had great games, great online, etc), and had the same break-down issues as the 360, I'm sure that there would be tons of PS3 loyals tagging along because of it. Sony isn't special... What he was saying is that if Sony had the same problems, they would be getting sued left and right or whatever, and saying that Microsoft- fuck it. You can't read anyway.
just because you can't get your point across in a logical manner doesn't mean i can't read. i wanted to know what you meant because i thought i agreed with you, but f.. forget it you're a punk. don't bother replying. i won't be reading your nonsense any more.
good day ya prick.
My starwars legos disk got scratched up when I moved the 360 while it was running once. Funny how about 10 minutes of brasso and elbow grease was able to fix it though.
But then... There are the people on this very list that are saying their disks looked just like the disk scratched up by that disk cleaner. Amazing that the xbox 360 scratchs disks in the exact same way that disk cleaner scratches em. Either that the MS haters are lying again.