Microsoft 'Falcon' to bring cost reductions, 65nm CPU to the Xbox 360?

We knew it was coming, but it sounds like we finally know what it's all about: the 65nm Xbox 360 is apparently being code-named Falcon, according to Dean Takahashi. Stands to reason we can expect long-fabled cooler / less failure-prone / cheaper 360s to be Falcon's result, but hey, we'd take just two out of three at this point.

[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]

[Em @ Jul 10th 2007 8:45AM]

Finally....i'm on my 3rd box

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:06PM]

Then you're doing something wrong.

[strider_mt2k @ Jul 10th 2007 8:46AM]

She'll make .5 past light speed.

[strider_mt2k @ Jul 10th 2007 10:54AM]

They've made some "special modifications" of their own...

[Jeffrey @ Jul 10th 2007 8:51AM]

yeah, mine justr got the circle of death a week ago. and the tower trick only works every few days. so hopefully a price drop is on the way because im just going to buy a new one.

[tiuk @ Jul 10th 2007 10:25AM]

You know they've extended the warranty for RLOD errors to three years, right?

[Fuzz @ Jul 10th 2007 8:55AM]

Anyone know if they are shrinking the GPU to 65nm too, or just the processor? Because I thought it was a hot GPU that caused more problems in the 360.

[ForumMaster @ Jul 10th 2007 9:10AM]

i belive it is the GPU too from what i understand from a similar article posted in dailytech:

http://www.dailytech.com/Xbox+360+to+Get+65nm+Falcon+Makeover+This+Fall/article7972.htm

they say the CPU and GPU will get a 65nm shrink named falcon.

[Rich @ Jul 10th 2007 9:14AM]

I miss my Xbox 360. 22 days since I sent it back for repair and counting. :(

[Rob @ Jul 10th 2007 9:14AM]

It amazes me how people make the hassle of having to deal with a faulty product sound like it's no bother at all. Why is it? If I had to deal with say, a car breaking down all the time, I'd raise hell. A tv set, anything that I have to return for exchange more than once is a hassle and I'd demand a refund. Please ...

I really don't understand it why they take it as if not a major manufacturing and design defect. And by the way, the $1 billion that MS has put aside for repairs is no warranty. It's an admission that they've released a defective item.

I don't know who's worse, buyers for taking it like it's nothing and have no choice other than to deal with it, or MS for getting away with it.

Amazing.

[Jon @ Jul 10th 2007 9:34AM]

Its Because 360 is the BEST thing out there , I own all 3 an 360,Wii,PS3 in that order easy ... When my launch 360 broke i never once thought well screw and did not want one ,i called everyday to find out when i was getting my system , i was PISSED at the time , but as soon as it showed up fixed , i was happy as can be .. i never had another issue since and will be buying a second one (Elite) as soon as the 65mm comes out ... The media center is worth the price alone .. Take any DVD , Use DVDFab HD Decrypter .. Then use VOB2MPG (Both Free) and you can stream ANY dvd to your 360 ... I have about 5 TB's of external harddrive space that i plan to fill up with my dvd collection ... So far i have completed about 110 movies is about 350 GB ... on the video screen of MS media center you will have a huge menu of all your movies and they will play back in PERFECT quality and complete 5.1 dolby digital ... Try that out

[Rob @ Jul 10th 2007 9:56AM]

Well, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are going after the same thing, domination of our living rooms. I'm sure that when it works, the Xbox performs as it should. But, there are so many reports of people dealing with them breaking down all the time.

I'm not here to bash anyone, as I don't own either one of the new generation game machines. I'm speaking as a consumer in general.

[Nathan @ Jul 12th 2007 12:53PM]

Everything you compared the 360 too has so many options out there that you don't have to put up with problems. There is not one other device out there that does all the 360 can do. Thats why people are willing to keep buying it over again or deal with repairs which are free of charge thanks to microsoft taking care of it's customers. I think for me it's about value. I use my 360 so much that even if it did cost a lot more I would still consider it worth it. I had a wii which was great fun for a while, but it's novelty wears off quick and I didn't use it. I think the 360 is better of a value. I also use it for HD streaming from my computer and I can't wait for iptv. Although I haven't figured out dolby digital yet streaming yet. I have two right now and will be buying two more when the 65nm comes out as well. Best gaming system I've had and the media center abilities are an awesome extra.

[Jo @ Jul 10th 2007 9:34AM]

Maybe with this they can make the power brick smaller too, or even put it in the same box.

[Travis Owens @ Jul 10th 2007 12:59PM]

All consoles have been using external power bricks and will continue to do so because it makes the console significantly smaller. Get use to it, that's just the way it is.

[Greg Legowski @ Jul 10th 2007 11:44AM]

Shrinking the power brick would be a good thing, but I'd rather they keep it external. That way if something should ever happen to the power supply itself, it's an easy user swap-out rather than a service call.

[gameforall @ Jul 10th 2007 10:02AM]

It takes three attempts to get it right, Suckers!

[Ian @ Jul 10th 2007 10:13AM]

because we all know theres not 14 revisions of PS2s... oh wait, yes there is.

[gameforall @ Jul 10th 2007 11:03AM]

"14 revisions of PS2s", that work as advertised

[Ian @ Jul 10th 2007 11:10AM]

Really? I seem to remember a whole boatload of them had lasers that would go bad, as well as the 1st gen of them were burning the CPU's out at a pretty decent rate. I worked at EBGames at the PS2 launch and we had LOTS of laser issues and CPUs burned out that were replaced under our warranty vs Sony's.

[Oliver Sayers @ Jul 10th 2007 11:36AM]

Yes, my launch console laser only read silver discs not blue discs after 2 years. As did most of my friends boxes. I just bought the slimline which has worked since launch.

Back on subject though. I will be buying an 65nm elite once they hit the UK.

[JeffM @ Jul 10th 2007 10:37PM]

@gameforall,

How quickly we forget about the dreaded DREs of the PS2 age. Disc Read Errors claimed my launch-day unit.

I bought a couple more - why? Because the PS2 was the system to have last generation.

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:12PM]

I had 3 different PS2s with faulty lasers, all of them going bad within the 90 day warranty of each other.

Don't think I didn't take it care of it, or that I'm an Xbox fanboy, because I did take care of it (wiped it down and cleaned the dust from it weekly), and I loved the PS2; Quake 3 Revolution was fucking amazing with friends or alone (I was really good, too... The bots were always set on "Nightmare" and I reamed their assholes...).

Why do you think there were revisions, anyway? Because of problems they were having with the console, just as they are doing with the Xbox 360 (now).

[bob @ Jul 10th 2007 10:04AM]

well i had a 360 and it broke after 3 months , but microsoft replaced it quickly. sure itsa pain when it happens but atleast they will sort it .
i dont have now and dont intend to get one because of the noise from the DVD drive.
it's funny that my pc is quieter than my console. i hope they do soemthingabout the dvd drive because i like the 360 .

[Travis Owens @ Jul 10th 2007 1:11PM]

Microsoft has already done something about the noisey DVD drives (which many people thought was fan noise). All the current/new Xbox 360s use a newer quieter DVD drive.

I bought my 360 back in Dec 2006 so I lucked out by a couple months, yea I hate the noise too but once a game starts, I keep the speakers loud enough not to notice.

[Rob @ Jul 10th 2007 10:18AM]

Does anyone know when they will start producing them?

[James Sonne @ Jul 10th 2007 10:23AM]

Notice that the new 65-nm Xbox 360 is a new SKU, meaning that this upgrade will not be applied to all XBoxes but simply create a new smaller unit to be sold along side current units such as the Elite. Again, current XBoxes will not be upgrade, this new SKU will be added. Hopefully HDD accessories will still work, or that it will come with one built in.

[JohnDoe303 @ Jul 10th 2007 10:31AM]

You gotta love the 33% failure rate of the 360.

[punkrawkfailure @ Jul 10th 2007 12:06PM]

Would you rather have a console you love to play lots of games on break from use, or a $600 collecting dust?

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:35PM]

Gotta' love that speculated failure statistic that has not been proven.

300-400 dollar machine with phenomenal games, amazing online service, and more awesome games coming out every day, or a 600 dollar machine that has no use other than Blu-ray movies. You decide.

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:36PM]

Oh yeah, not to mention you have 24/7/365 customer service with more American based representatives than Sony.

[JohnDoe303 @ Jul 10th 2007 5:08PM]

@punkrawkfailure & Zeus the God

I would just as many others too and that's why we're are getting PS3s. As for 600$ collecting dust.. the price has gone down and the PS3 dollar for dollar was and is even more so now a better deal then the 360.

The failure stat has been proven, I'm on my third 360 since launch.. Everyone has had one die on them online.. First they up it to a year admitting wrong doing, now it's 3-years with a cost of 1billion to them. Oh yeah, AND it plays Blu-ray and output true native digital 1080p by way of HDMI unlike the 360 that software upscales. You do the math the facts are there.

As for the games.. They're all there on the PS3 as well.. I'll pass on Halo and enjoy MGS, Heavy Rain, Warhawk, etc etc.. PS3 online is free not 50$ a year and the games support WAY more players to boot.

lol @ the csr comment! what a fanboy, you know no end buddy.

[roc ingersol @ Jul 10th 2007 10:39AM]

Having a new SKU doesn't mean the old ones aren't going away.
When they add pack-ins to old consoles the new bundle gets a new SKU too.
But no-one sells 'just an xbox' after they have 'xbox and 2 games' on the shelves.
Besides, smaller internals doesn't necessarily mean 'redesign' or new SKU. The existing SKUs have varying drives and minor chips and such. MS will just swap in the 65nm supply and save cash.

the grey 360 SKU is probably just the IPTV set-top box.

[Rynth @ Jul 10th 2007 10:42AM]

I wouldn't trust an article from anyone who sounds like "Takeshi's Castle"....

[alex @ Jul 10th 2007 10:57AM]

i heart my wii

haha but if this is a 'cheaper' xbox 360 then what is going to happen with the expected xbox 360 price cut? they think that the elite, the pro, and core with drop down to $400, $350, $250, respectively. so will this cost $200? i believe everything when i actually see it

[Ian @ Jul 10th 2007 11:12AM]

No, it will be cheaper FOR THEM, so they can justify the price cut and keep the same margins or lack thereof depending on if they are making a profit on the current 360's or not.

[JinKazama @ Jul 10th 2007 11:05AM]

I gotta agree with Jon...the tolerance of Xbox 360 consumers is simply amazing. I don't care what the flippin thing does or how great it is "when it works". The fact of the matter is there is an approximately 30% chance that it won't. Doesn't sound like a lot....? Would you use a parachute that had a 30% chance of failing...how about a condom...HDTV...how about a new laptop...but a game console made by MS...hey they'll just send me another one and I'm cool.

Considering that a failure rate below 5% for products is acceptable, six times that is outrageous.

3 year warranty or not we as consumers have to hold these companies responsible for putting out defective products or they'll just keep giving us junk.

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:32PM]

Well if the PS3 had AMAZING games like the 360 does and had excellent online service, and had roughly the same (supposed) failure rates, then the same would be happening for the PS3.

Besides, have you seen today's generation of youth? Most of them don't take care of their shit. I blame it mostly on them because most of my friends haven't had a single problem. The ones who have (I have noticed) are the ones who don't do anything to take care of it (leave it in a confined space, set shit on it be it food, clothing, etc, or don't clean it).

[rahat @ Jul 10th 2007 11:19AM]

well look at it this way:

the 360 must be *that good* for people to put up with repeated hardware failures. i mean its not like people who own 360s are genetically defficient or come from another culture - they just like it that much.

one day i wont be poor and then ill buy one.

[JohnDoe303 @ Jul 10th 2007 5:11PM]

You're looking at it all wrong.. They've spent hundreds.. console 400$, controller 40$, wifi 100$, XBL 50$.. Then it breaks, now what..? Throw it out or have M$ warranty it..? Obvious choice is that you have no choice but to fix it.

[roc ingersol @ Jul 10th 2007 11:30AM]

The launch machines seem like they universally sucked, but beyond that the 360 seems to have a pretty normal failure rate. I know a good dozen people who have 360s and no-one's had a problem. Not that I'm gonna pass -my- anecdotal evidence off as data - but it's not like the 30% rumor is even relevant to anyone who walks into Fry's today, tomorrow, or 12 months ago even.

People who are still having trouble sound like they keep sending the same problem machine back to MS and getting the same problem machine back from them.

[belial20xx @ Jul 10th 2007 1:32PM]

The actuall send you a refurbished unit not the same one you sent it. Microsoft needs to send out new 360 units if the customer has to rma a third time then they should get a new box to me thats with in reason but I must add it really says somthing about how the quality of micrsofts product is veiwed by consumers since most threads turn into a testimonial thread for I have 2 360 unit that ned rep and I am now in talks with microsofts corporate office due to this issue and many others regaurding the shortcomings of vista and about how I had a 9hr ordeal with installing halo2 but thats another thread itself

[Marten Kai-Larsen @ Jul 10th 2007 11:56AM]

Since Dean Takahashi said Microsoft would put a handheld gaming device on the market 2006 I don't believe anything he says. It is pure speculation. However everything in his article is known facts except maybe the internal project name which doesn't really add any information, the rest is pure speculation, as to what Microsoft might do with the extra space. I don't think they will sell it in parallell with existing SKU and differentiate it. They will just revise the internals just like Sony did with the PS2 all the time. After all, how would they market it? This one doesn't get to hot and brakes within a year?


My two first PS2's broke pretty early with laser issues. Everybody saying Xbox 360 is the worst console ever is either too young or just didn't own a first generation PS2. Commodore 64 had 50% failures out of the box...

[ArtVandelay @ Jul 10th 2007 1:17PM]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------
My two first PS2's broke pretty early with laser issues. Everybody saying Xbox 360 is the worst console ever is either too young or just didn't own a first generation PS2. Commodore 64 had 50% failures out of the box...
---------------------------------------------------

Being old enough to remember, the first gen PS2 had no where near the number of problems 360's have now.

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:26PM]

To my experience it has had more problems. I haven't had many if any problems with my Xbox, whereas I went through 3 PS2s.

[Dahk @ Jul 10th 2007 1:32PM]

I dunno Travis, I got used to my shiny glory without a massive brick. Its a monolith nonetheless, but I still don't have the brick =).

[Shadmeister @ Jul 10th 2007 1:38PM]

I am currently on my 3rd XBOX360 - Microsoft replaced all free of charge including shipping - took about 7 working days to replace both faulty units. The fact that Microsoft has offered extended warranty and replaced my units at no cost to me shows that it is a quality company when compared to others - not sure what the legal position is, but did Microsoft have to do this ???. (i do not work for Microsoft). They have done the right thing and are correcting the situation.

The Sony system from reports does have a lack of games, but is this because of the internal architecture ?. In reports on Ars Technica, the initial rersponse from Valve was that the multi core processor was not the best approach as it was too difficult to program using parallel programming techniques. Valve 6 months later stated that their software engineers were now comfortable with the architecture and had devloped the software (???) to program the PS3 for parallel processing (Cell Processor). I understand that the XBOX360 uses a cut down version of this processor (3 cores), whilst PS3 uses the full architecture (9 cores). I'll get to the point. Perhaps Microsoft have done the right thing strategically. They were aware of the difficulty of programming the system using 9 cores, but 3 cores is easier to implement software wise, but could benefit from some parallel processing. The Sony system would be difficult to implement software and the 9 core parallel processing techniques would take time to develop. Microsoft may have brought out the console with design issues, but they could very easily get a head start on Sony, with HD gaming etc., XBOX Live, and hopefully increase their market share with a console offering in the initial 3 years the same power as the PS3. No doubt the PS3 with the 9 cores will take over in terms of realism due to the extra 6 cores that can be used for physics and graphics programming, but Microsoft will then be able to introduce another console with either the same capability or greater capability (most probable) where the hard work on parallel programming techniques and software development has been completed by the Sony system programmers, and Microsoft can reap the benefit later.

I remember the PS3 adverts on TV where the boxer is punched in the face and the graphics do look very good with the ripples on the flesh etc., - but where are these PS3 programs at the moment that have these advanced physics ?. How long will it take to produce games of this capability at similar costs (probably greater) to existing productions ?.

I think Microsoft have the correct strategy in the long term by releasing the XBOX360 when they did.

(I know i am gonna get flamed....)

[Cellullose @ Jul 10th 2007 2:03PM]

@Shadmeister
An important technical difference between Cell and other processors is that the extra cores, or "SPE" units are not a processors. They are a very special purpose processors that have limited instruction sets and can't be programmed using the same methods as your regular processor.

The cell processor is like a single Pentium processor with 8 MMX-extensions attached it. Cell != 9 cores. Cell == 1 core + 8 partial cores.

The single general purpose core of the Cell is very similar to each of the cores in the Xbox 360. The cores of both machines are a stripped down version of what you find in the PowerPC Mac's and IBM's enterprise PPC servers.

Does that mean the 360/PS3 is better? Not necessary--just different to program. Once the game developers figure out the Cell's learning curve, we should be able to see which is really the better technology.

[Zeus the God @ Jul 10th 2007 4:24PM]

Its also important to notice that the "cells" are not full cores. The Cell processor in the PS3 uses a single core, and that is then divided into these cells. What makes that so inefficient is the fact that they divide the architectures between PPE and SPE architectures. Like the above poster said, SPE architecture based cores/cells are not like full processors. They are more like "assistants," and therefore cannot harness the full power of what the processor has to offer... Not that the Cell has much power. It only has 8 cells (not 9), one of which is run JUST for the OS on the PS3, leaving 7 cells (1 PPE, 6 SPE) to run the games. This is all spread over one core with just 512Kb of L2 Cache.

Contrary to popular belief, its not 3.2GHz processor speed multiplied by 7 or 8 (according to how many cells) to get the full processing speed. The full processing speed is 3.2GHz with everything working at maximum.

I find that the Xenon chip in the Xbox 360 (CPU) is more like the "brawn" (able to process with more power and do larger chunks) while the Cell is more the "brains" of the group.

I feel the Cell processor will be rendered useless once more games come out, because I think we have seen the extent of this processor with MotorStorm and other games that are out right now.

[john @ Aug 13th 2007 1:37PM]

I agree with your analysis, however i am pissed at MS as I live in China. Here in China hundreds of stores sell the 360. However when I called 360 support in usa regarding the 3 red lights they said quite simply."oh! you are in shanghai china, we do not sell xbox in china so there is no support"
they then hung up the phone.
i now have a 360 that is useless and a large number of games that cannot be played. I also have the problem that officially I cannot buy an xbox here??
bloody stupid as the number of stores selling xbox here is increasing all the time. So regardless of warranty extensions etc etc etc if I buy a new one I have the same shit if it breaks down.