European HD DVD lobbyists claim '74-percent' market share

Nearly 11 months ago to the day, Europe witnessed its very first HD DVD release, and while the battle over format supremacy has been heated and rarely slanted to one corner here in the US, apparently things are vastly different across the pond. According to the (biased?) information spat out by the European HD DVD Promotional Group, "HD DVD players have outsold Blu-ray players by a three-to-one margin in Europe's main markets so far this year," and moreover, it claimed to hold a staggering "74-percent" of the market share in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, and Switzerland for standalone players. So, for those residing in the aforementioned lands, are things really this skewed, or does a certain lobbyist group have their numbers all fuzzed up?

[Romey Rome @ Jul 12th 2007 6:05PM]

This just in: The Blu-Ray Association cites statistics from multiple scientists clearly demonstrating that a baby penguin dies every time a HD-DVD is produced. Blu Ray Association spokesman Prop R. Ganda said, "Only terrorists support penguin baby killers."

[Chuckles McGee @ Jul 12th 2007 6:19PM]

And to think I bought March of the Penguins on HD-DVD...

[Taha @ Jul 12th 2007 6:10PM]

So im gonna guess that they mean just standalone players and not counting the PS3.

[magicite @ Jul 12th 2007 6:17PM]

Which is exactly why these [arbitrary] statistics are a load. PS3s most certainly cannibalize standalone Blu-ray players.

[Revrant2394 @ Jul 12th 2007 6:16PM]

Yep, thank God, and it's nice to know at least Europeans might be smart enough to catch on before BD+ usage hits, even if we aren't.

[jerrt @ Jul 12th 2007 6:38PM]

that is what i've heard, no ps3's counted in this statistic.

[EatingPie @ Jul 13th 2007 12:54PM]

And if the stats were 100% true (included the PS3), why would Microsoft and Toshiba have pressed the EU to investigate Sony on anti-trust practices concerning Blu-Ray and Sony Pictures?

That said, both sides skew results as much as they legally can. Until some third party -- that's not paid by either side -- shoots some stats, grains of salt will be in short supply.

-Pie

[RowdyReptile @ Jul 16th 2007 12:09PM]

yeah... 600,000 PS3 units sold in the first weekend of the euro release. I love these "stand alone player" figures that they put out, desperate to hide from consumers that they are being blown away by the PS3.

[Matthew C @ Jul 12th 2007 6:12PM]

I just.... HATE baby penguins soooo much!!!
*pops in an HD-DVD*

[Austin_Yeahbaby @ Jul 12th 2007 6:19PM]

I have a PS3 and a load of Blu Ray discs,

but hey I guess I'm not a 'real' high def user and hence excluded from this 'Market Share Analysis' because the player is not standalone

[Bman21212 @ Jul 12th 2007 6:13PM]

"The figures were for stand-alone players only and did not include sales of games consoles such as Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3, which contains a Blu-ray player."

Not quite a complete picture.

And talking about the Blu Ray group
"Its discs, which are outselling HD DVD discs, can store more information and special features but the technology is more expensive."

So, the stand alone players are down, but the actual disks are selling better. Doesn't sound like the battle is all over yet.

[Bman21212 @ Jul 12th 2007 6:14PM]

"The figures were for stand-alone players only and did not include sales of games consoles such as Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3, which contains a Blu-ray player."

Not quite a complete picture.

And talking about the Blu Ray group
"Its discs, which are outselling HD DVD discs, can store more information and special features but the technology is more expensive."

So, the stand alone players are down, but the actual disks are selling better. Doesn't sound like the battle is all over yet.

[mentalsticks @ Jul 12th 2007 6:15PM]

(biased?) = BIASED

[michael @ Jul 12th 2007 6:18PM]

Well, since Europe is always ahead of practically every continent, maybe HD-DVD will win?

And yes, Europe is pretty much ahead of us all. That's why they're so sucessful, right?

[mikey81 @ Jul 14th 2007 10:19AM]

Quite right, the EU collectively has the largest economy in the world, is the largest exporter, and is expected to become the driver of global economic growth this year.

[Chuckles McGee @ Jul 12th 2007 6:21PM]

Maybe we'll get some sort of strange, PAL vs. NTSC type of double standard going overseas. The US takes Blu-Ray, Europe takes HD-DVD...

[Taylor @ Jul 15th 2007 7:24AM]

...but I'm from Australia which Sony collectively groups in as Europe... we use PAL... and the HD-DVD has barely touched our backwards civilisation. All the big electronics chains have BRD players but nothing from HD-DVD.

[Scabies @ Jul 12th 2007 6:26PM]

lol
We outsell 3::1
We have 74% market share
For every Four Blu-Ray Players, there are 12 more HD-DVD players
sandimashighschoolfootball RULES!
something tells me their repetition is cardstacking just a little bit. As has been mentioned before, the PS3, a non-dedicated BR player, is not equated in.. Touting the same victory in two different ways sounds like they are desparate for attention/success, or are covering up a shortcoming elsewhere (media sales?)

[icruise @ Jul 12th 2007 6:29PM]

To use these statistics to claim "74% market share" is beyond belief. First of all, they're excluding the PS3, which is the main Blu-ray player at the moment. Secondly, according to the site below (in French) total European sales through March of of HD movie players break down like this:

Blu-ray: 2665
HD DVD: 7432
Source: http://www.cinemotion.biz/informacion.php?iinfo=148

No, those aren't millions. That's 7,432 HD-DVD standalone players sold for all of Europe. I can't imagine that sales have picked up dramatically since then, so we're talking about a very VERY small number of players here. If you do include the PS3 for the same period, you'll see that the picture is quite different. According to the link below, the PS3 sold 800,000 units by mid-April. That's more than 100 times the number of stand-alone HD-DVD players sold!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6169204.html

I'd be interested to know what the software (movie) sales look like.

[Yuki @ Jul 12th 2007 6:44PM]

Number of standalone high def players sold in France by the end of April:
HD DVD: 2,600
Blu-ray: 800

Number of high def players (including the PS3 and the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on) sold in France by the end of April:
HD DVD: 10,000
Blu-ray: 108,800

[mentalsticks @ Jul 12th 2007 9:39PM]

Yes, but the other half of the story is that most ps3 buyers didn't buy their ps3 for the BluRay capability. So there IS a reason to exclude them, at least count them with less weight. If the ps3 would come with a HDDVD player, all of these people would've had bought HDDVDs instead of BluRays.

[Adam @ Jul 13th 2007 7:24AM]

I bought my ps3 pretty much JUST for the blu-ray player, and would buy the odd blockbuster game; gran turismo hd etc. I think ALOT of ppl did this too because at launch it was the cheapest blu-ray player available so it's only right ALL blu-ray and hd-dvd compatible players are included in these things.

btw... high-def isn't taking off at all in europe, and I don't think it will for a few years yet, at least until HD is the standard for everything including TV broadcasts.

[Casey S @ Jul 15th 2007 8:37AM]

I personally know about 10 people who purchased the PS3 just for the blue ray. On the flipside, nobody I know even has HD-DVD at all. Of course, I'm in the States.

[Robert Seidman @ Jul 12th 2007 6:35PM]

who will use physical media for anything in 15 years?

[MacBandit @ Jul 13th 2007 1:25AM]

Anyone who wants to store 200GB or more for pennies a disc.

[Mak @ Jul 12th 2007 6:36PM]

Is this the most depserate press release ever posted, by HD DVD camp? It's sounds like a "were are no dying really", kinda release...

However, just so people are not fooled, HD DVD is dying badly, at least in the UK...

Hmm, I think this photo says a thousand words... Content is king, and retailers have chosen Blu-Ray in Europe.

This one: (HMV, Trocadero, London)

http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2vv115txu9.jpg

Or this one (HMV, Oxford St, London)

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ivcgttte5.jpg

Or this one (Virgin Records, Picadilly, London)

http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image037qs3.jpg

[Daniel D @ Jul 12th 2007 6:53PM]

I have seen shelves of HD DVDs as well I could show some pictures of these but unfortunately I dont keep such things to hand. Also Sony send Blu-ray discs with their PS3s to retailers just pointing this out.

[paloooz @ Jul 12th 2007 7:08PM]

At Best Buy where I live, the size of the sections are the same.

I marked an HD-DVD and a Blu-Ray (both Planet Earth) with a sharpie on the plastic, came back 3 weeks later.

The HD-DVD was still there, but the Blu-Ray version wasn't.

[heyheyhey @ Jul 12th 2007 10:15PM]

You live at Best Buy?

[James @ Jul 13th 2007 12:54AM]

29 pounds for a movie? Holy crap. Note to HD disc producers: the first one to cut prices to slight markup over DVD will win.

[David @ Jul 13th 2007 3:35AM]

In Swansea HMV and Bristol HMV it is a similar story Blu-Ray occupies 80% of the HD Disc section.

[Simon Slater @ Jul 13th 2007 11:16AM]

In Glasgow city store, there is 1 row og HD DVD discs, and 9 rows of Blu-Ray.

I have a photo on my camera phone, i'll try and upload it later.

Also noticed my local Blockbuster in Greenock only stocks Blu-Ray, no HD DVD in sight.

[Robotochan @ Jul 12th 2007 6:39PM]

Britain isn't that far into this "High Def Revolution". "Heck" we are still trying to convince people to buy a £20 box to watch about 25 channels instead of the 5 analogue channels so I can get some damn Digital TV signal in my room!

It's more likely that 3 HD-DVD players were sold and 1 BR player was sold...

[Mike @ Jul 12th 2007 6:49PM]

LOL. Bush/Cheney administration should hire the press release guys @ the HD-DVD camp cuz they are awesome at fudging the numbers.

HD-DVD: ALL UR BASE R BELONG TO US (as long as the PS3 doesn't count)

[Leoedin @ Jul 12th 2007 7:05PM]

So...

Are we saying the PS3 - a failure in games console terms - is suddenly going to entirely dominate the HD player market to the point that BD will win?

Nobody bought PS3's in europe. Remember the lack of queues in paris, the empty red carpets 2 minutes after midnight? That's what happened. Only a few PS3's have been sold in games console terms.

Until standalone sales pick up, it will stay that way. The PS3, unlike the PS2, is not going to be the driving force behind the adoption of BD. The PS2 had almost saturation - almost every kid I know has one. That is never going to happen with the PS3 simply because of the price.

How many of the people who bought PS3's have an HD TV in europe? Not many - a lot of people buy it for the games console part, and don't use it's HD functions.

How many of those people are going to then play BD on it? Few - people will buy what they know, and buy a format they can play throughout the house/take round to friends houses and know it will play.

The HMV in Edinburgh has a tiny booth dedicated to HD movies. They have about 4 shelves, each with perhaps 5 titles on them. And...There is equal numbers of HDDVD and BD disks. But in the end, they aren't selling. Weekly total sales for some blockbuster movies have been in the double figures for the whole of the UK. People simply aren't buying HD movies in enough volume to be able to draw and statistics or predictions.

The day the first cheap, DVD-player looking HD disk player (and by cheap I mean £100-£150) is available is the day that format wins.

I know for sure that I have a HD TV, but my dad (with the money) is not going to buy an HD disk player. Yes HD looks better, but for the same price as a TV again? People aren't used to paying that much for movie players - DVD and VCR's have never costed as much as a good TV.

[Max Fun @ Jul 12th 2007 10:27PM]

Sales for the PS3 might have been slow, but it's still selling, and with the imminent price cut, will sell even more, especially when more games come out.

And even if Europeans do not have HDTVs yet, they'll have their PS3 sitting there, and when they finally get their HDTVs, do you think they'll pay more to buy another HD DVD player, or just use their PS3s to play Blu-ray discs?

Cheap players NOW doesn't quite matter because when HDTVs are sill expensive, only people who are rich can get into the HD setup, and these people will not necessarily want a cheap HD DVD player, but a cool player that they can flaunt to their friends. Price will be a big issue when HDTVs take over standard TVs and price conscious people start shopping for a Hi-Def player. But that will be a few more years to come, and by then BD players will be as cheap, if not cheaper than HD players, considering the manufacturing advantage with the shear numbers of PS3 and PC burners built.

So Leoedin, you need to look forward, and not be too myopic. All signs say that BD is going to win.

[Edd Mills @ Jul 15th 2007 1:33PM]

Much of what you just said is complete rubbish. First of all, the PS2 launched at £300. At the time, it was very expensive and it wasn't until it dropped to the magical £200 that it turned into the console that "every" kid owned. Further more, DVD never really had any true competition, nothing like what we have now with HD-DVD and Blu-ray.
Ultimately, the PS3 will, eventually, drop to a price that allows it to become more mainstream. Just because it's initially expensive doesn't mean it'll never regain traction.
I would also argue that the PS3 is a massive drive towards the growth of blu-ray. It wasn't long ago that Sony justified the price based on the fact that it had a blu-ray drive inside.
Myself, I believe that Blu-ray will come out on top. Sony has a massive hold over a large portion of the movie industry due to Sony Pictures. Coupled with the continuing price reductions of the PS3 and the introduction of the really big games later this year and next, I'd say we'll blu-ray uptake rise significantly over the next couple of years and put the final nail into HD-DVD's coffin.

[hyAxis @ Jul 12th 2007 7:06PM]

I'm not in one of those lands, but I am able to provide my feedback: here, in PORTUGAL, blu-ray titles are already easily accessible, as well as players (including the PS3, 'course). All I've seen of HD-DVD was one title playing in an LCD.

[Loonie @ Jul 12th 2007 7:10PM]

That probably means some weirdey importer in London has one BluRay disk and three HDs. But the HDs only constitute 74% because one has a cover missing.

[ixalon @ Jul 12th 2007 7:21PM]

Hello fellow person from Edinburgh! I've not been in the Princes Street HMV for a while, but a few weeks ago the HMV in the St. James Centre has pretty much equal Blu-Ray and HD-DVD titles in their HD section (only 1 or two of each title, but I'd guesstimate around 100 titles in each). But, in the chart section they also have additional Blu-Ray discs alongside the corresponding DVDs (things like this are probably down to the manager of the individual store) and there's also another set of Blu-Ray discs next to the PS3 games. Overall it gave the impression that there were more Blu-Ray titles.

[zack @ Jul 12th 2007 7:24PM]

@ Micheal (wayyy up at the top)
If Europe is so ahead of us why didn't they come up with hd-dvd/blu-ray?

GASP!BABY PENGUINS ARE My favorite animal.
Good old PS3. And it costs less that a blu-ray or hd-dvd player ("stand alone")

[Matt @ Jul 14th 2007 12:41PM]

zack, please get your facts straight before you talk any further.
Shuji Nakamura built the first blue laser prototype from the gallium nitride crystal developed by Unipress, which is in fact a Warsaw Center for High Pressure Research, part of the Polish Academy of Sciences.
Last I checked Polish Academy of Sciences is in Poland (Europe, no it's not the 51st state) and Shuji Nakamura is not American, although admittedly he works at UCSB.

and btw, X-Box has an HD-DVD player as an option, I wonder how many of those circulate in Europe.

Cheers,
Matt

[Matt M @ Jul 12th 2007 7:41PM]

Leave it to a biased promotional group to skew the figures in their favor. For the record, HD-DVD is an inferior format and everyone knows it. (even if you only consider total storage capacity) I think people will be pretty ticked off if this format war ends up the way the VHS vs. Betamax war did back in the 70s & 80s. And by that I mean we lost out on the widespread adoption of a technically superior format.

While, in the meantime, HD-DVD players are in fact cheaper, this will change. People who are buying HD-DVD today are buying equipment which is already outmoded by blu-ray. Think of the long-term, people! Don't settle for a an inferior alternative because it's cheaper. Then again we are living in the wal-mart mentality consumerist era, and this wisdom will largely go unheeded. Microsoft knows this, exploits it, and is therefore evil.

[steve @ Jul 12th 2007 8:38PM]

as a college student, i've bought into the apple digital-ripped-movies-for-cheap via ipod line-out-to-tv system for acceptable quality at a decent price....thus i'm pretty neutral on the blu-ray/HDDVD debate....

neutrality thus established, my opinion has always been that blu-ray will win simply because consumers don't care about slightly differing specs so much as overall "feel," and the name "blu-ray" is simply, flat out more appealing than "H-D-D-V-D." you say, "hey, i just got a new blu-ray player!" and it sounds way less dorky and yet more advanced than saying, "hey, i just got a new HDDVDQXY player!"

just my thought...

[p-diddy @ Jul 12th 2007 9:14PM]

I disagree. I think joe sixpack still isn't sold on this newfangled Blu-ray tech-nol-ergy. "Well, I know what a DVD is. I know what HD is. I think i can figure out what a HD DVD is. What's a Blu-ray?" The only people buying either of these is people that read these sites and the AVS Forum.

That said, after picking up a PS3 two days ago, though HD DVD has more movies that I'm into, the Xbox is so damn loud that it makes me want to buy Blu-ray discs because I can actually hear the movie on the PS3. Note: I'm referring to the Xbox itself as loud, not the add-on.

Who ever came up with that picture of a jet engine with a 360 logo on it floating around the 'net is a genius.

[steve @ Jul 12th 2007 10:00PM]

well....naturally, i disa-disagree...haha. the semantic stuff matters, and any consumer thinking of hi-def already knows that HDDVD and blu-ray do the same thing with different 'tech-nol-ergy.'

from there, if there's no discernable difference, it comes down to a name, and a string of letters is just not attractive. "aetch-dee-dee-vee-dee" does not roll off the tongue at all, and doesn't connect on an emotional level...it also feels like a tired reiteration of the previous generation (think "enhanced cd"). a name based on a color, especially a (objectively, yes) pleasant one like "blue"....it just feels nicer, in an approachably-technological way.

"see-dee"
"dee-vee-dee"
"blue-ray"
"aetch-dee-dee-vee-dee" = not palatable in everyday consumer-speak word of mouth stuff.

[pointless @ Jul 12th 2007 8:39PM]

Despite what many claim, there is no clear audio or video quality advantage to one format vs the other. Both have some stellar and some dud releases.

The 51GB HD DVD spec has been approved by the DVD Forum so there is no capacity advantage either way (no studio has asked for or needed this much capacity so far however).

I chose HD DVD because I liked the titles they were offering much more. I'd suggest that folks choose a format on that basis.

I seriously doubt that Blu-Ray will overcome the huge hardware price difference for a year at least. The Toshiba HD-A2 player was selling for $199 on both Amazon and Tiger Direct earlier today.

[icruise @ Jul 12th 2007 9:51PM]

Mentalsticks -- It's certainly true that all buyers of standalone players bought them to view movies, while some PS3 buyers might only be buying them for games and will never watch a single Blu-ray movie. However, it's pretty hard to argue that this even comes close to making up for the huge difference in numbers. Let's say that only 10% of PS3 owners use their machines heavily for movies. (I think that's a very low estimate, but just for the sake of argument, we'll use that.) Given the numbers I quoted above, that would still give Blu-ray more than 10 times the installed base in Europe. Plus, even the people who don't watch movies on their PS3s now might start once more popular movies are available. You simply can't ignore the PS3's effect in this.

[indigo80 @ Jul 13th 2007 6:32AM]

> mentalsticks

bluray is the only reason i use my ps3, its not as if there are any games (beside motorstorm) that make it worth while (imho)

i did try to get on the hddvd bandwagon, preordered the xbox drive when it was first announced waited for release, a couple of discs turned up, cancelled my order in march(iirc) when the distributor said they had no idea when they were getting the drives, luckily they also refunded the money for the discs as well

if they had got the players and discs on the shelves quickly it could have been a whole different story

[Brian @ Jul 12th 2007 9:55PM]

The reason Microsoft didn't put HD-DVD in the XBOX 360 is because they will corner the market on movie sales through digital distribution.

Who wants to buy the disc when you can get it for MUCH less through your cable box or xbox 360? XBOX Live! users have spent 125 million on movie downloads. That's an average of nearly $20 per person. There is a new Live! member every 8 seconds. People are voting with their wallets. (Alright, I'll give Peter Moore a rest)

Does the PS3 even have HD movie downloads?