NYC cabbies plan September strike over GPS

As we told you in March, the technology-bucking drivers of New York City have put their collective foot down and said "no" to GPS systems in city taxis. The New York Taxi Workers Alliance, a non-unionized group with more than 8,400 members, claims it will call for its drivers to strike if city leaders don't retract plans to install GPS units in 13,000 cabs. No new information there, but recently the NYTWA announced that September would be its target month for the walkouts, putting a very real timetable on what would be a crippling move for the city. If you'll recall, the touchscreen devices would allow passengers to pay by credit card, check the news, and map their taxi's location. The systems would also track pickup and drop-off points (information taxi drivers already report), but cabbies fear their employers will use the information to keep tabs on their whereabouts. The NYTWA plans to specify the date and length of the strike next month, so you'll know more when we do.

[Tom @ Jul 26th 2007 2:36PM]

so....people will have to walk. or take the subway. Is that really so bad?

I wonder if this will work. I know I can afford to walk. But I don't know if a cabbie can afford to go unpaid for an extended period of time.....

[Mark Priestap @ Jul 26th 2007 2:37PM]

And what might happen if a taxi driver takes a scenic route?

[YouFaceTheTick @ Jul 26th 2007 2:39PM]

Cabbies also fear passengers will be able to see that the driver is taking them on a profit-padding drive.

[johnnyjohnny @ Jul 26th 2007 2:54PM]

Completely agree. Unless I'm in the Cash Cab and they are paying ME to ride, I would love GPS in taxis to know the shortest route and additional info. Obviously this practice of misleading passangers to get a quick buck is prevalent enough that all cabbies would STRIKE? Seriously, there must be a taxi mafia.

[craig @ Jul 26th 2007 3:38PM]

The shortest way isn't always the fastest in the city.

[eat_ham @ Jul 26th 2007 7:43PM]

The fees are structured such that the cab drivers have *far* more to gain by getting a lot of small fares than by one large one. In short, they want to get you in and out of their cab as quickly as possible, they have no financial incentive to take you on the scenic route.

[YouFaceTheTick @ Jul 26th 2007 3:58PM]

@craig

True, the short route may not be the fastest but as someone who travels for work I've found it's imperative to figure out routes on your own. Cabbies will screw you over if they know you're from out of town. It's that simple.

[Brian @ Jul 26th 2007 5:56PM]

I do believe this is the real truth.

[Spyvie @ Jul 26th 2007 2:40PM]

I say fire all of the drivers and hire new ones.

Collectivism sucks!

[Tony @ Jul 26th 2007 2:42PM]

What a bunch of crybabies!!! The only reason a driver has to not want the GPS is because they are spending a lot of free time being lazy instead of doing their job! If they don't like it then they need to go work somewhere else. I know there are plenty of people who would be willing to drive a cab with the GPS system installed.

[Andrew Jones @ Jul 26th 2007 2:46PM]

Except that if they don't pick up people, they don't get paid... Taxi drivers don't get paid by the hour. They get paid by the mile only when they have a paying passenger.

[Homer J @ Jul 26th 2007 5:28PM]

I dont know if its still the same, but cab owners (more appropriatly medialion owners) "rent" out their cabs for 12 hour periods at a flat rate. What you do with your cab is up to you...you just need to pay your daily rent and anything above is yours to keep. The way its set up, the system actually penalizes lazyness since they have to meet a bare minimum threshold (the rental fee) and can keep everything above it.

[Tony @ Jul 26th 2007 5:50PM]

I can somewhat understand that, but at the same time, when you drive that cab then you are working for that company. Lets say you are working for sears, not directly but maybe making adjustments to the fire alarm or doing electrical work. They have cameras that watch what you are doing but is it a big deal? Nor really. And all this system does is track where the cab is and when you have a fare. It makes no changes to how many people you have ot pick up. The rules are still the same in that case. Either way you keep any profit, and at the same time it gives the passenger something to do while waiting to arrive at their destination.

[Frankenstein Black @ Jul 26th 2007 2:44PM]

Question: Are an NYC Taxis considered a company own vehicle? Some? All? None? Individually owned? Medallion?

[CT @ Jul 26th 2007 3:17PM]

They are medallion nased, but last I heard they cost more than a house to get. So the medallions are normally bought by a larger company.

[Screw Them @ Jul 26th 2007 2:47PM]

Unioninzed scumbags. Fighting any kind of technology that benefits the consumer and makes their job any less corrupt.

[Kevin @ Jul 26th 2007 3:27PM]

"The New York Taxi Workers Alliance, a non-unionized group with more than 8,400 members..."

RTFD

[Chris @ Jul 26th 2007 4:51PM]

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... they are organizing a walkout as a means of "collectively bargaining" their way out of mandatory GPS units. Even if they do not fit the official definition of a union, they sure as hell are acting like one and talking like one.

[Boynamedsue @ Jul 26th 2007 2:47PM]

a gps service doesn't send location info out. If the employer wanted to spy there would have to be some kind of local transmitter and local reciever. or a data logger so they can check where they went at the end of the day.

Normally the "if you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about?" argument is bullshit.

But in the case of the employer knowing whats happening with their vehicles, and passengers being able to see proper routes... If you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about.

[Xzavier @ Jul 26th 2007 6:31PM]

"a gps service doesn't send location info out. If the employer wanted to spy there would have to be some kind of local transmitter and local reciever. or a data logger so they can check where they went at the end of the day."
---Then how do police catch people they are looking for via their cell phones?

"Normally the "if you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about?" argument is bullshit."
---Who said anything about hiding something? That is the oldest, lamest argument out there. It is about your RIGHTS! Go read the 1st 10 amendments in the US constitution, then EXERCISE IT!

"But in the case of the employer knowing whats happening with their vehicles, and passengers being able to see proper routes... If you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about."
---That statement makes no sense. The employer’s dose not know what happen to their vehicle??? Don't they have to go back to the garage at some point in time? Somebody's got to know something!

"Passangers being able to see proper routes..."
---You my friend have NEVER been in a NYC cab. NYC taxi drivers, most of them know every street in Manhattan and MOST of the traffic at almost time of the day at any location!

"If you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about."
--- I've got nothing to hide. However I don't want anybody know where I am at whenever he/she/they deemed for THEIR reasons necessary.
I am worried not about the technology, but about other people plan/could use it for THERE own personal use. If I want to get tag I’ll get tag VOLUENTAIRY. Don’t compel me to do it!

After all of the taxi driver get tag, and public transportation, the very last voluentairy/mandatory thing is citizens cars. Dont worry... congress will just simply pass a bill and everybody will say yea we need this. Too bad rush hour congestion won't go away afterwards!

[Boynamedsue @ Jul 26th 2007 6:59PM]

"Then how do police catch people they are looking for via their cell phones?"

--Thats done with local equipment. installed in the local cell network, interfacing with software in the phone. PAIRED WITH gps.

"Who said anything about hiding something? That is the oldest, lamest argument out there. It is about your RIGHTS! Go read the 1st 10 amendments in the US constitution, then EXERCISE IT!"

-- I have read them. Your employers ability to make sure you're doing your job wasn't mentioned.

"That statement makes no sense. The employer’s dose not know what happen to their vehicle??? Don't they have to go back to the garage at some point in time? Somebody's got to know something!"

--Yes, because back at the garage, all the cabs magically start to talk and tell the bosses about all the off the meter cab rides that happened.

"You my friend have NEVER been in a NYC cab. NYC taxi drivers, most of them know every street in Manhattan and MOST of the traffic at almost time of the day at any location!"

-- and know the best ways to drag it out.

"I've got nothing to hide. However I don't want anybody know where I am at whenever he/she/they deemed for THEIR reasons necessary.
I am worried not about the technology, but about other people plan/could use it for THERE own personal use. If I want to get tag I’ll get tag VOLUENTAIRY. Don’t compel me to do it!"

-- we're not talking about you, we're talking about people... at work.

[Simon @ Jul 26th 2007 7:47PM]

@Xzavier: They can find people's cell phones because cell phones are connected to cells, and the location of each cell is known.

[Dream @ Jul 26th 2007 2:51PM]

I was in the mid-east recently, and the cabs have a GPS tracking system which is linked to the police. Specifically to limit speeding. The unit, mounted on the dash in front of the passenger, would automatically notify police if the cab was speeding for a certain distance, and then send him a ticket. Unfortunately, there was a workaround... the cabbie would cycle through the 3 or 4 modes on the box, one of which reset the tracking, and it would not send the report. To do this, the cabbie would have to lean across the front seats over to the passenger side and constantly cycle the box. All the while speeding along at over 100mph. Uncomfortable to watch as a passenger...

[Andrew @ Jul 26th 2007 2:52PM]

I'd side with the Taxi's on this one. The purpose of the technology is just to feed advertizements/useless info to the passenger and location info to the bosses.

The actual Taxi Cab cant take advantage of the GPS/Mapping as it doesn't actually give the driver any turn by turn directions. Also, the city will not be paying for the install fee for the cab (cab driver pays it) as well as the transaction fee's for the credit machines (cab driver pays it).

So all in all its a lose-lose for the driver.

As to the Unionized comment.. read the article:
" The New York Taxi Workers Alliance, a non-unionized group with more than 8,400 members"

[Boynamedsue @ Jul 26th 2007 3:04PM]

right. useless. because ease of payment, news, and location info is just that.

[contempt @ Jul 27th 2007 8:26AM]

I tend to agree that's it's a burden for the drivers. It's the same if you're working some place and they tell you, you need to all buy $xxx of equipment of you can't work.

I just wished the driver themselves had the GPS. That's what I like about car service anywhere, they're informed. In the UK, they sign up for a live operator GPS who recommends the best route based upon current traffic conditions. You sorta see it here with cab drivers talking to their buddies non-stop.

[Mark @ Jul 26th 2007 2:52PM]

... I think it's funny that they are actually saying they're worried about their employers using it to see where they are. Wake up! Most people's bosses know where they are whenever they're at work. I honestly see no credible reason for them to strike.

[cacophony @ Jul 26th 2007 2:55PM]

Wasn't the recent fare hike supposed to be in "exchange" for the driver's agreement to install these units?

[Hashem Noah @ Jul 26th 2007 2:59PM]

First of all most of these drivers are either part of a garage or own a medallion.The cost of implementing a system of this size will be passed onto the drivers not the city.The cost of installing the system alone is 6 grand and they're responsible for maintenance.If any part of the system is left broken , they will be ticketed for it.So basically you can go to a cab and break the screen and you wouldn't be liable for it.Remember people the target audience for people that ride cabs are people that can afford them.Just because one can ride a cab and you can not its not they're problem its yours.With rising gas costs they pay the same price as you at the pump.These people are self employed , they have nothing to hide.

[dtreichler @ Jul 26th 2007 3:22PM]

Exactly. This is the point Engadget and other sites often fail to mention. The major issue is not the fact that they'll have GPS installed. It's that they're being forced to PAY FOR IT! These systems are expensive and cabbies don't tend to have the wide profit margins to pay for them.

[Ian @ Jul 26th 2007 3:07PM]

I've got to agree with the drivers on this one, particularly after assimilating the prior comments. The employer I recently retired from was well on the road to being able to track the exact location of each employee in the building via their employee badges. The NY cab drivers have every right to take a few minutes (or an hour or so) to take care of personal business, if needed, and to try to lie about it to their dispatchers. The planned GPS equipment is like electronic shackles on hard-working men and women who want merely to have some control over their movements and not be treated as 18th-Century slaves.

[ka1axy73 @ Jul 26th 2007 4:11PM]

They can't track you once your badge accidentally falls into the microwave oven...

[Jon @ Jul 26th 2007 3:15PM]

They just want to strike because playing NES/SNES ROM's are not part of the feature set of the unit

[EUboy @ Jul 26th 2007 3:19PM]

It's time to welcome the autonomous cab self-guided by GPS.

[thispaceforsale @ Jul 26th 2007 3:24PM]

I don't see this as a gps issue. I think it is more paying electronically via credit card. Cabbies are already very reluctant to take charge. The credit card fee, and then having to report taxes on tip income.
A money issue is going to trump a freetime issue.

[t325 @ Jul 26th 2007 4:05PM]

Yes, god forbid we implement something to prevent cabbies from breaking tax evasion laws.

[km519 @ Jul 27th 2007 11:14AM]

@t325: Who cares if the cabbie isn't declaring income? It isn't my job to police tax laws for "The Man"; and frankly, it isn't like we don't pay enough in taxes in NYC.

My fear is that FULLY accounting for taxes and credit-card charges plus the cost of these terminals is going to cause fare rate-hikes. Avoiding fare rate-hikes would cause the people unhappy to earn the living at a cab to leave because of reduced take home pay; and people less motivated to earn that diminished earnings to take the cab out.

Given the choice of screwing the government (tax authorities and taxi commission) and banks (credit card charges) over, and getting a decent cabbie getting me from A to B at a reduced fare; I'd take the latter.

[andy @ Jul 26th 2007 3:25PM]

I have decided to strike against riding in a cab until they install GPS. I have monthly MetroPasses anyways. My options are Subway, Buses, etc.

[Stan Winstone @ Jul 26th 2007 3:30PM]

Don't worry, you're in a Johnny Cab!

[Noll @ Jul 26th 2007 3:39PM]

Should make the Cash Cab easier to spot.

[zorg @ Jul 26th 2007 3:40PM]

I don't think most of the posters understand the issue. Drivers and passengers conspire against the ridiculous official system for leaving city limits (double the meter or whatever it is) by agreeing to flat rate pricing. The driver can run the meter and report a lesser amount to the owner.

With GPS, the owner knows the taxi was outside city limits, so the driver and passenger can not conspire any more. You, the consumer, are the loser.

It's not really the GPS that's the problem, it's a symptom of a problem with an antiquated system for establishing fares. Now I'm sure someone will post "just get rid of the system," which is like saying "just get rid of the New York City government," easier said than done.

[buzzard31581 @ Jul 26th 2007 3:42PM]

What difference does it make if their employers keep tabs on them? They're supposed to be working and driving around picking people up anyway.

If they're not doing their job then it's no wonder why you can never find a taxi.

[Thomas S @ Jul 26th 2007 3:45PM]

I remember a couple of years ago when the Cabbies of NYC did strike, the Mayor of the time went on camera saying it was the best thing that ever happened to the city. I've been to the city alot, and have never used a cab, who wants to pay 15 bucks for a ride that would cost you $2 by subway if you're willing to walk a few blocks at most.

[SteveMB @ Jul 26th 2007 3:45PM]

I can't believe that anyone hasn't talked about the hot girl in the picture yet!

http://mybeautifulkatamari.com

[KYDS3K @ Jul 26th 2007 3:46PM]

i just wish some of them would get their own GPS system for their cab. last time i went to NYC, only ONE driver actually knew where the f they were going . . . one even dropped us off in the middle of nowhere because he didn't know how to get to McCarren Park! i had to use the GPS on my phone to direct one of them, and that at 4am after getting out of the club. i understand that the NYC-imposed GPS is expensive . . . but why can't they just get one of those nav units that's on Woot every once in awhile? =)

[Hashem Noah @ Jul 26th 2007 3:54PM]

These drivers do not have the same benefits as you and i , they have to pay out of their own pockets for health insurance and benefits.They're self employed and if the city really wanted to implement the system , they should cover the costs of installations and maintenance.

[Chris @ Jul 26th 2007 4:59PM]

Self-employed health insurance is tax deductible - a benefit you and I do not have.

[Grant @ Jul 26th 2007 3:57PM]

i think the real question is:
has anyone here actually tried to use a GPS in the city?
i have a fairly new garmin nuvi 350 and tried to use it in the city only to have NONE of the usual 6 satellites connect. It also recently happened on a limo ride from the city, the driver was using a GPS, then halfway to the tunnel he lost the signal and had no idea where he was going and had to stop and ask for directions.

what the hell is the point of having GPS in the taxis if they're not going to work (more than) half the time?

[YouFaceTheTick @ Jul 26th 2007 4:02PM]

I've used GPS all over the country and all over europe. Worked fine. A decent GPS system will have your route written out in turn by turn instructions too, so even if you lose sat connections you can use it like normal written directions (common on tomtom and garmin).

[Grant @ Jul 26th 2007 4:32PM]

yes, but i'm not refering to the world, i am referring to in NYC, where this is occuring.

written directions are great, but have you ever LITERALLY driven in NYC? written directions are no help. you can not be fiddling with a GPS, you need to be focused on the road and the traffic cutting around your lost ass.