There's probably nothing quite as embarrassing as being ambushed on national television by Chris Hansen for stealing a measly
iPod. Of course, NBC's crack team of journalists are just trying to expose the
growing trend of iPod theft in the world... or kick up their ratings. In a bizarre and somewhat convoluted "hidden camera" scheme, Dateline nabs thieves at their own game by allowing them to
steal new iPods bundled with a "special" install disc which secretly hands over the user's information to the news program. The venus-fly-trap-like plot unfolds as the crew leaves "unattended" iPods in high traffic areas, and is then shocked to see people walking off with them. With all due respect, Dateline, you
were pretty much asking for it. If you'd like to know how it all ends, hit the read link for the
six page transcript.
posted Aug 2nd 2007 10:07PM
Didn't a Dateline sting go horribly wrong recently when they used a "venus-fly-trap-like plot" to catch child stalkers? One man killed himself soon after they confronted him, and the town was devastated.
No, they didn't do a sting that went horribly wrong. Some pedophile got caught on national TV trying to pick up a child and got arrested. He being that area's District Attorney (or Assistant I don't remember) then killed himself because his life was over. I don't think you can blame Dateline for some creep killing himself. Especially if he knows the law.
@Miles
they guy never showed up to see the girl,i think he caved to his concience, and the situation should have ended there but when the cops showed up shot himself.
I'd have to agree, Dateline shouldn't be responsible for a pervert unable to face the truth and get some damned help.
Though perverted justice are sociopathic creeps all the same, I've met a few, they aren't good people. Wait, why is this comment even on this story?
Dateline is the same show that in the early 90's faked Chevrolet pickup truck explosions and made a news story about how dangerous it was to have a Chevy with a side mounted gas tank. GM denied any wrong doing and Dateline fired back holding their stance against GM. Thousands of people went in to panic spending hundreds of dollars to have their gas tanks relocated in between the frame beams. As it later turned out, they (dateline nbc) confessed to planting estes model rocket motors in the gasoline tanks to ingnite the fuel. The whole story was a hoax.
Isn't it illegal for DateLine to install what is basically a virus on the user's computer under the guise of Apple software that transmits his personal information?
Yes, that one went horribly wrong. The guy never showed up to the bait house. So the police sent the whole SWAT team - as if he's 10 armed terrorists attempting to steal an aircraft - for dramatic effect to his home, where he shot himself in the head when they used a robot battering ram to knock down his door. Keep in mind to that point - because he did not go to the house - he HAD NOT COMMITTED A CRIME.
Also, there was 25 cases thrown out by a DA because Dateline decided to use Miss USA as the person posing as the teen girl and Miss USA did not realize that because she was an agent in the investigation she'd have to make 25 court appearances to testify against these men and she refused to do so.
There have been hundreds of bungled cases that never aired from "To Catch a predator" and the whole show should be illegal because it absolutely is entrapment. These guys are led t believe the girl is willing and consenting. The undercover person in most cases is the one who starts up the conversations, they are the one who INVITE the person to the bait house.
So are we catching predators with that show or opportunists? Would any of those guys seek out sexual relations with a teen - which by the way is not pedophilia at all and not categorized as a mental disorder as pedophilia is EXCLUSIVELY defined as a primary sexual attraction for PRE-PUBESCENT children which teenagers are not - if they were not invited by the teen?
To catch a predator is no different from this iPod scam. None of it has anything to do with justice or protecting rights, it's all just about ratings.
KC, That was a great post.
Here's a link to the GM/Dateline fiasco:
http://carblog.classifieds1000.com/car_parts/20070510-065857-Automobile-Fuel-Tanks
More links:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/nbc.html
http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1993/february_8_1993_167855.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9F0CE7D81F39F93AA2575BC0A965958260
Ratings!
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=63315 is the news article I was referring about. The source article is no longer available, but Google it if you don't trust SN.
XD hey I watched that and you know what they flashed without thinking about it? 16 working iPod serials. FREE REPAIRS FOR ME!!!
and if you don't belive me,
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8K703B8RV9K 20-Mar-07
8Q6500DEV9M 1-Feb-07
8Q6502UFV9M 1-Feb-07
8Q6502WEV9M 1-Feb-07
8Q6502Y3V9M 1-Feb-07
8L648D8GV9K 21-Mar-07
8K701HKGV9M 5-Feb-07
8K649CY7V9M 1-Feb-07
8K646LY7V9K 18-Dec-06
8K703B6VV9K 16-Feb-07
8K703C55V9K 16-Feb-07
8K703BZAV9K 16-Feb-07
8K703DE3V9K 29-Mar-07
actually I have various broken parts and now get free replacements and free phone support
i watched the show and some of the ipod scenarios were kinda questionable (like leaving an ipod on a street bench. is that theft?) but it does raise some valid points about why apple doesn't do more to help curb this problem.
Ummm the manufacturer's responsibility ends, as far as security is concerned, as soon as you walk out the door. This is the problem with America in general. No one wants to take responsibility for anything anymore. Fuck the person who leaves their car door unlocked. Fuck the person who buys a toy that wasn't designed for his 2 year old. I mean really. People need to take responsibility for the shit they do, or in many cases do not do.
As for the iPod. The first thing I did was ditch the telltale white headphones for a nice set of black Sony headphones. At that point not one gives you a second look. Oh boo hoo people don't know I have an iPod....Only a very shallow person would give a crap about this.
so i guess what you're saying that anyone who is a victim of crime probably had it coming to them and they should shut the hell up.
I am more amazed by the people who yanked the iPods more than anything else. Seriously, we aren't doing too good in society when anything gets left unattended for a few minutes it dissapears. Every time something was taken it wasn't as if it was literally sitting on a bench with nothing else around. People searched cars, purses, bags, etc. to get the iPod. That pretty much says it all. Maybe it would be different if they stumbled upon literally an unopened box with nothing around it.
With all that said, I don't think anyone who leaves their stuff unattended should be surprised. It was just unbelievable how people can so easily disassociate the item with real people. To them, its their lucky day and who cares if they ruined someone else's.
Too bad they didn't do it with the Zune, it would have been curious to see. My bet is that they may have looked at the boxed for a moment confused, then probably snatch it anyway.
WHat the hell? taking something from a bench is not stealing, I wouldn't think about it and just take the damn thing, take it to lost & found?? PLEASE!! the L&F guy's going to take it anyway, call security?? same thing!, If I don't grab it someone else is going to, and the person who bought it lost it the minute he left it on that bench so he's already fucked. That's what happens when you are a moron and leave a $250.00 gadget you just bought behind...
i watched that, and from what i remember, they said they only recovered 12 out of the 20 iPods they planted. so i'm guessing the ones that weren't recovered, that probably means that the people with those never loaded their "special" software registration, or just never registered their iPod with apple at all.
any intelligent person that picks up a new ipod like that would throw the cd away and simply never register(hell, i don't even register the things I buy)
Jeesh; I thought people knew that iPods came sans cds
Or the people's antivirus/spyware blocker caught it. Like Dateline has serious hackers.
Ha, they don't come with cds anymore? I guess it has been a long time since I got my iPod.
Its been 5 years since I got my iPod. No CD anymore? When I got it the CD wasnt windows compatable so I had to go buy iTunes separately. What a waste. Never use it anymore. WMP FTW. Let the Flaming begin. I can already see the torches.
Leaving an iPod out in a public area, unattended, is definitely questionable. I, personally, wouldn't consider it theft. I'd like to think that I would kinda do the right thing, like make a post on craigslist in the lost+found section saying that if the rightful owner hadn't contacted me, and proven themselves the rightful owner, after say 30 days, I was keeping the iPod. Now is that so bad? Should I be arrested for that?
I know one thing for sure. If I spot an unattended iPod out in public I'm sure as hell not using the install disc. :P
uh.... leaving stuff in your car is a completely different ballpark from leaving junk sitting on a bench. If it's in your car, then it's obvious whose it is. There's an additional level of violation too, in that you have to go into the car to get the item. Leaving valuables on a car seat and leaving the door open, that I can see as parallel, but if you think that people who leaves valuables "in the open" in their cars are asking for it, then you're a kleptomaniac. Do you think that someone who has a TV by their house windows is also asking for it? If I have some quality counters in my kitchen and they too are in plain sight with some big ol windows, am I still asking for it?
You know what I wonder? When they'll realize iPods aren't the only kind of MP3 player out there.
There are others? Like what?
If I were a thief who snagged a hide-a-pod I would be very disappointed to learn the truth.
We know why apple isnt doing anything, a stolen ipod will need a replacement... why spend money and time on finding an ipod when you could sell a new one to the person who had it stolen?
If only they had a "hide-a-pod"
Theft isn't really a 'grey area'. If you have something that doesn't belong to you, it's theft. It doesn't matter that you 'found it lying around'.
As for deliberately leaving them in the street - they could hardly have a show for you to enjoy otherwise. It seems like a reasonable option if you're making a show about catching casual iPod thieves.
I was more impressed however by a show they did over here. Several boy-racer cars were kitted out with in-cabin cameras, alarms, gps and remote deactivation kits. They then left them secured in parking lots. In some cases they took weeks to be stolen. Part of the focus of the show was on how these crooks overcame the car alarms which seems more legitimate than just leaving an iPod in the street.
Where is "over here?"
if you have something that doesnt belong to you? isnt possesion 9/10s of the law? LOL
This report should stop more kids from becoming An Hero due to a stolen iPod. In all honesty, a good upstanding citizen would turn the iPod in to the police, but if they didn't I could see why too (Chances of the iPod's owner being found are slim. Might aswell keep it for yourself)
Theres another headline here: READ THE EULA!
They put into the EULA an agreement that Dateline could have the registrant's personal data. And they must also have put something in there about spyware, because one kid entered fake data and they caught him anyway, from other info snooped out of his PC by the doctored Apple install CD.
Makes you think, hmm?
Dateline's recent show about ipod theft was more about what people do if they find
an ipod abandoned then about theft. Only one scene did I see where a women
reached into an open car window would I call a theft. All the others were
ipods left in public areas where people found them as if abandoned by their
owners.The person who finds it can either take it to security or the police
department where it may or may not be re-united with it's owner, or they
could keep it. I am not aware that the law would claim keeping something
found in a public area as a theft. If I find a quarter lying on the ground
and put it in my pocket is that theft? I could of course take the quarter to
the local police or give it to a charity. Accusing people of theft for
keeping a piece of lost property was wrong for Dateline to do. That isn't theft!
Taking a piece of property that that was inside a car is theft. Inside a
mall the original owner may look for it at the security office but in a very
public area such as a park bench it is unlikely the item would be reunited
with it's owner by taking it to a police department or the park management.
Now if Dateline had clearly added a business card or labeled it with the owner's
name, address and phone number then maybe that would have shown how honest
someone would be to return it. But I don't see how finding lost property in
itself and failing to return it is a theft.
You can't just take people's purses because they left them sitting around, even if their ID isn't in there. Lost property isn't free for the taking. In many places you can report it to the police and if no one claims it you can get it after 30 days. That is the right thing to do and you can still get a reward out of it.
Just because you will probably never get caught for taking stuff like that never makes it ok, unless of course you have a flexible conscience. Even then, it still isn't legal. Finding money may be different, but if the sum gets high enough you may be compelled by the law to turn that in as well.
My comment is about taking something that was abandoned is not the same as theft. Theft is a deliberate taking of someone else's property. Finding abandoned property and keeping it is not the same. Of course it is always best to try to return something found to it's rightful owner but that is not always possible. Dateline implied that finding and keeping was the same as theft. I don't believe that is the case and it was wrong for Dateline to set people up and then call them thieves for playing finders keepers. If Dateline had placed a sleeping person on a park bench with an ipod on their lap and video taped someone taking advantage and stealing the ipod from them then that would have been theft and a legit undercover sting. Not the way they did it by leaving ipods abandoned in public areas.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned entrapment. From my criminal justice class it is when the crime is just too tempting. Taking $10 from a guy sleeping on the bus...not entrapment. Taking $300 from a dude sleeping on the bus...now you have a case. Let's see...taking a $250 device that is unattended....ENTRAPMENT!
I don't think that is entrapment at all. You have to be literally compelled to do something by the actions of police, investigators, etc. Crimes of opportunity usually do not have someone compelling them to commit the crime. Arguing that someone's lack of security in fact makes them deserve the crime usually cannot hold up very well in court. Even more ridiculous would be the argument that the victim in fact compelled you to steal their item because they misplaced it. There is no pressure exerted on someone who steals an unattended item, they have complete free will in making the decision. No one told them to take it.
The bus argument makes no sense. Are you saying that you are compelled by the victim to steal a large amount of money because the victim was defenseless by sleeping? You *can't* use entrapment as a defense if you compel yourself to take the money because it would be easy; or that you would likely not be caught. In court, you would have been better off stealing the 10 bucks than the 300, and an entrapment defense would never work in that situation.
Entrapment deals much more with sting operations and such where investigators attempt to pressure individuals into committing a crime they otherwise wouldn't have. This would be like Chris Hanson standing with an iPod on the street telling people to take and then accuse them of theft.
Clearly you've never seen stings where the police leave a car sitting in a high crime area with a kill switch and internal cameras waiting for someone to steal it. When its stolen, they kill the engine and take the thief off to jail.
Happens all the time... and there's TV shows about it.
"Entrapment" may not be the correct word but I have to agree that leaving an item of value in plain sight in a car would get you ticket. My mom once went to a nature preserve early in the morning to take some sunrise pictures. When she walked back to her car later in the morning she saw a cop standing next to it writing a ticket. Apparently she had left her purse on the front seat and the cop said that by doing so she was inviting people to break into her car. Not sure what "people" he was referring to though since it was on a Saturday morning and there were only two other cars parked in the parking lot.
I agree. I lost my 5th gen black I pod at my work.
It was inscribed and sitting next to my soundboard (I am a soundguy). Some poor Schlob took it while i was at the stage, now that is stealing.
If date line had had the ipods inscribed, I think it might be a little diferent story.
Either way people suck if they are that opportunistic.
My problem is the install Cd's. They deliberately set it to give dateline your information. They should add a line...even a short one at the end saying that your information is going to a third party. Otherwise, someone could sue for First Amendment rights (Invasion Of Privacy).
But the theft... Its a gray area open for interpretation.
I'm Glad to see NBC is still really covering all the "Hard News"
According to the transcript which was linked they said "To get our bait iPods to work, whoever takes them will have to install a disc. What they won't know is that when they click 'I Agree' on a licensing agreement that appears on-screen, they'll be consenting to provide some of the same kind of information they provide Apple to Dateline."
So there was an EULA that popped up on screen during the install in which the people did agree to provide the data to Dateline. Since no one ever reads the agreements I doubt anyone would even notice. Although if you know iPods you should realize its been a long time since they provided an install CD.
Ya...
I was wondering about that. What was the last iPod without a CD? 5th Gen or 1st Gen Nano .
How well are one's first ammendment rights protected if those rights are violated by an illegal act that the "victom" is commiting?
Doesn't this violate DMCA by installing spayware and rootkits unknowingly onto people's computers?
Didn't the NY DA investigate SONY when the rookit fiasco hit the news? Why isn't NBC being investigated for knowingly trying to sabotage and gain personal information from people's computers? Isn't hacking illegal when it's used to gain personal information or attack one's computer?
That's what I thought.
"However, after installing our Dateline disk, he agreed to reveal the identity of his computer via things like e-mail accounts and personal websites. We don't know if Apple has access to the same information when iPods are plugged into computers, but it did allow us to learn his real identity."
Aren't there laws against this?
Yeah, they might not be standing on the best grounds with what they did with the CD, but as far as I saw they never used this information to press criminal charges (unless I missed that part).
I don't think that its in Apple's best interest to have iPods returned to their owners. As mentioned in the story, many victims just suck it up and buy another to replace the stolen one. The proposal to make iPods less attractive to thieves by bricking them still doesn't fix this problem, a problem I'm not sure Apple wants to fix.
Here's what I wrote about this story in the comments on another blog...
I did catch this program last night as well… and there were a couple of things that really didn’t sit well with me.
1. At least half of the iPods were left lying around in a public area, and people who came upon them simply picked them up and walked away. The last person interviewed compared it to coming upon a $100 bill on the sidewalk of your neighborhood. Are you going to go knocking door to door to see who dropped the cash? Unlikely.
Having said that, the other half did appear to be inside someone’s car, backpack or other personal item which required the theif to go digging… seems a bit more like a real world theft.
2. The last part of the show was dedicated to showing that Apple doesn’t have a theft tracking system in place for its iPods. Painting it in the light as if they have some sort of moral obligation to do so… I was absolutely floored. What other products out there are locked out when stolen and / or tracked down and returned to their owner by the manufacturer?
1. Some cars have lojack to track them when they’re stolen. Others have kill switches that turn the engine off when stolen… but this isn’t even the majority of the cars sold today… and not all of these options are even provided by the manufacturer, they’re third party systems. And a car can range anywhere from $15,000 to what, $400,000??
2. Laptops also can have a lojack system, which is software installed on the system that tells police where it can be located when it connects to the internet. This is again a 3rd party piece of software, and a service that the user has to pay for every year to a third party. If you’re in this situation, you don’t go back to Dell, Gateway, Acer… or anyone else who built your laptop to get it back… you go to the third party vendor. Laptops usually cost between $500-$4000
So why should apple be responsible for keeping a database and tracking down stolen iPods valued at $99-$500?
Maybe a company like lojack could partner with Apple to install their software on iPods when its requested and paid for just like laptops. But again, this is a third party vendor and something the end user would have to pay a subscription for.
I just don’t understand why the reporter felt it necessary to paint a picture of Apple not caring about its customers, like it had some responsibility of tracking all of the millions of iPods it sells every year. I’m sorry his son has his device stolen, but I’m sure being the host of a big tv show he can afford to go buy another one instead of making a bigger deal out of the whole situation.
Whats next, should Huffy be held responsible when his kid’s bike gets stolen? Nike when his shoes are taken? Starter when his jacket’s gone? (Remember those!) When his kid gets his first car and loads it up with a thumping stereo that gets stolen, is he going to hold Pioneer responsible for not getting the stereo and speakers back?
Theft is a part of life. Its unfortunate, but true. It happens. We’ve all had things taken from us. We can’t go chasing down the manufacturers who build our products and hold them responsible for their whereabouts of the product once its been purchased.
Finally, he ended his report saying that Apple may turn out to be the hero of this story… sort of hinting that Apple was indeed going to start a program to track stolen iPods or some such variation of… which would be an amazing, progressive and expensive proposition for Apple. I would applaud them for doing something like this, which I feel they have no responsibility for… but I also worry that such a program would increase the cost of their devices, and thus raise the price of such devices at the retail floor.
You are right to say that Apple has no legal responsibility to do something, but maybe they should feel like they have a social responsibility to do so. I don't think anyone actually suggested that Apple is liable for stolen iPods. They did suggest how simple it could be by making a CD that could do just that. I don't think it would be too difficult for Apple, especially since you alluded to many examples of these already taking place
Maybe for a couple bucks they could offer the service to people purchasing new iPods. I bet they could even turn an easy profit out of the whole situation. If for five extra bucks you could have Apple enter your iPod's information into a theft prevention database I don't know many people that would say no and I bet it would cost Apple less than a buck per iPod to actually do it.
It would be mutually beneficial and consumer friendly, not to mention it would play right into their corporate philosophy that they spew. Also, the hero part is that Apple applied for a patent that would effectively brick stolen iPods by not letting them charge. That would be a pretty neat deterrent, but the thieves would probably just junk it instead.
It's your classic case of Finders keepers Losers plant spyware on your computer in order to track you down then put you on national television and treat you like a common thief for doing something that 99.9999999% of the population would do.
PS Fuck you Dateline
Hard to argue with that kind of logic. But I wouldnt anyway. I wonder who else at Dateline got one stolen and had a chip on their shoulder over it.
I'll be honest. If I leave something that I just bought laying anywhere and leave I would not expect it to still be there later. Also if I found an Ipod laying around I may be tempted to pick it up.
However, with that said, I remember one day when I was going to work years ago I saw a wallet laying on the sidewalk. It was a fairly busy street in the middle of the day. I was in college and money was very very tight. However I decided that it wasn't worth the trouble to pick it up. Since someone could see me pick it up.
As for the Dateline story. If I'm correct, a couple of those Ipods were sitting on top of what looked like a garbage can. So the people that took them were not thieves but garbage pickers.
Finally, if the Ipod was treated like a cell phone then the thefts would go down. Why steal something that you can't use. And if they connect to Itunes then simply log their IP address. So if someone reports their Ipod missing then Apple can give the cops the latest IP addresses that connected to Itunes with the Ipod.
I remember when this happened to me at a baseball game with my gameboy color about 7 years ago; I was 10, naive, and terribly devistated, but I knew it was my own fault for leaving it out.
Couldn't they remove the firmware, or write new frimware that gives it a different serial number?
It depends... my bf accidentally left his mobile on a park bench. It was returned to him using the numbers found on the phone. Course me and him though it was gone until I heard from my boss that he had gotten a call about a lost phone. I must have recently called my BF from work.
I do agree that respectful people should attempt to return property. Money is hard to tell who owns, and same with electronics that haven't been registered or have personal info on them.
However, what Dateline did was obviously entrapment and it wouldn't have suprised me if I had offered the iPod to security and gotten it back in a month they would have tracked me down and accused me of theft. I'm sure the wouldn't have checked with lost and found as that wasn't part of their program of painting a horrible world.
How is this entrapment? No one compelled the individuals to take the iPod, they used their own free will in making the decision. They may have compelled themselves to do it because they thought they could not get caught, but that isn't how entrapment works. You cannot argue that you were trapped because you were compelled by yourself to steal something.
Entrapment deals with stings when investigators etc. put undue pressure on someone to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't have. No one stood their and pointed out the iPod or told them to take it. Sting operations in which real world conditions are emulated have time and time again stood up in court. The problem becomes when someone's free will is compromised and they are coerced into committing a crime. Of course no one would yank an iPod from Dateline or the police knowingly, but their actions showed that they would steal them knowing they did belong to someone else. That is about all they would need.
While I do think that Apple will probably set up and do something in this situation... (only because it seems to fit with the kind of company Apple portrays) I still don't even see a moral obligation to do so. Its not like they've created a product which is any more prone to theft then any other product in the same gadget category. Should Creative feel obligated to take similar actions with their products? Sony? (HAHAH, RIIIIIGHT)
Is the obligation to deter theft drawn drawn simply from the fact that it is the most popular device of its kind in the market place? That its branding and marketing are strong enough to create demand both at retail and on the black market? I suppose that we as a society are beginning to get to the point where we believe this to be true. If I purchase a product which is the must have, coolest thing around which cost me a good chunk of change... then the big corporations with their technology have a responsibility to look after my device for me. I got the cool thing, and if someone takes it from me (even though I left it sitting where I shouldn't have...) then it is the manufacturer's responsibility to reunite me with my wonderful gadget. They have the money and technology, right? Why should I be held responsible for my own keeping of the gadget?
Again, I'm sure Apple will find a way to do something... and turn a profit at it because that's the sort of thing they do. I'm good with that. What I have a problem with is this news story coming out to paint a picture of moral responsibility against Apple for not keeping track of the devices it sells to us. As if we as consumers are somehow not responsible for what happens to our device once we purchase it. Its a thought pattern that is becoming more and more regular in our culture today... assigning responsibility and blame on someone else... if something goes wrong, somebody else will pick up the pieces and foot the bill... and it just really gets under my skin to see a major tv network produce a prime time show feeding this very line of thinking.
Again, its part of society that things get stolen. Its unfortunate, but true. You want to deter this? Don't buy the most expensive, coolest, highest demand products on the market. Buy the cheap version which does the same thing, and rest easy at night.
Want to solve the bigger issue at hand? Make the penalty for theft stronger and the justice system swifter in its action. Don't make the corporations responsible for the police work. Their job is simply to create the products, and sell them. Not insure them, or police them.
dateline is a douche. . .
this "lojack" technique only works when people actually use shitty itunes software. ipods work fine without itunes. douches!!
This was exactly what I was arguing with my mom about. When you leave an iPod just anywhere, you would pretty naive to think no one will steal it.
I personally don't like Chris Hansen because he (and NBC and Dateline) are milking their success from getting child predators. You want to catch child predators? Fine. But don't waste your time (and mine) by trying to foil iPod thieves.
I can't believe they paid a company 40 grand to make the special install disks.
I sometimes go into the bathroom stall with my video ipod and jack it.
This is the email I sent to Dateline, I dont expect a response but it was a fun email to write:
Hello,
I was just watching your dateline special "i-jackers" and had some thoughts that I hope is read and considered. To begin with, this was not a valid study, nor was it correct in its ethics or execution. Placing brand new ipods throughout a heavy traffic area unattended is not in a sense "stealing" because there was no owner at the time to claim it. It is considered "taking" the ipod, which although wrong, should not be the same as someone removing the ipod from yourself or breaking into a locker, suitcase, etc to take the item. The interviewed that stated that finding the ipod is the same as finding a $100 bill is completely correct. A $100 bill has as much ownership on a bench unattended as an ipod. Therefore although wrong to take the $100 bill, can hardly be considered stealing. To my next point, if your watch was stolen off of your wrist would you call rolex? Maybe if your wallet stolen to called its maker? Because, according to the logic of this tv show it's the responsibility of the manufacturer to help you track down your stolen items. So it is hardly Apple's responsibility to help you find an item your were negligent with. Atop that, should the police break down every door of an ipod theft? Or should Apple just Google Map the address of the stolen ipod for the original customer, invading privacy as well as putting their customers health at risk upon attempted retrieval. And even if Apple were to implement a lojack system into every ipod, how much more would a customer pay for that service, because it shouldn't be free. Is a $100 tracking device worth the possible recovery of a $250 item? Most consumers would not think so. Plus taking manpower, legal circumstances and prosecution into account would the costs to the consumer justify the means? It is not Apple's responsibility to account for their customers negligence. I go on campus everyday as a student with my ipod. I keep it in my pocket, take care of it, and don't make it a target. Why? Because I know it will get stolen in a heartbeat, I know it's a popular item, and I know that if I lose it, its no ones fault but my own. I understand you are out to make flashy tv shows to scare people with stories of shady teenagers out to steal your ipods. But please, try to do studies with a little more dignity and thought. These people may as well been chasing a $100 bill on the end of a fishing line. Don't report to assault the average person. Don't report to blame others for an individuals carelessness. Don't scare people by promoting the stereotypes and stories that frighten your demographic. Next time you do a study like this why don't you let your reporter do the reporting, and get a sociologist to do the research. But then again, that wouldn't give you the answers you want, would it? I have a great understanding that it is hard to respond to all emails, but I would like at least a very quick and thoughtful (not automated) response to this letter to show that my time and thoughts mean something to your company. Thank you for your time
Wow. Very well written.
Good response Dan. Couldn't have said it better myself. (Even though I've tried. ;)
What a crock.
I believe that if something could be positively identified to be acertain person's item, it should be returned. If you find a purse, wallet, or cell phone it would be fairly simple to find the owner. Purses or wallets will likely contain identification. Not all purses and wallets are the same either. They will have distinct characteristics that can be used to link them to one certain person. With cellphones, they are easy to find the owner. Call some random person in the phonebook, specifically ones like parents, mom, dad, aunt *, uncle *, or any just listed with a first name. If you are uncomfortable doing that, just wait for a phone call to come in. iPods, though... totally different story.
Heck, if they televised that the majority of people turned them into lost and found, we'd have swarms of immoral people getting the iPods by going to the lost and found daily and saying "I left my iPod in the park, has anyone turned one in". And there'd be no way to prove that it was/wasn't his.
I'm a huge believer in returning things to the rightful owner if possible. I've returned lost keys, wallets, phones, etc.. But, if there is no way to prove it is a certain person's item, I will keep it. I will watch for flyers or listings saying it was lost and return it if i'm 100% sure it is theirs, but otherwise, it's mine.
The whole sting thing about finding things in public is moot under federal law anyway. If you look at law 723987.32, subsection 2 paragraph 4 it clearly states:
"...Finders keepers, Losers weepers.."
Where can that be found? I gotta see that.
Hard to tell if you are being serious, but it was a joke just in case you were.
iPod theft is no joke - I used to teach at a high school where there was apparently some sort of black-market mp3 player ring, and it was pretty serious. Parents should really think twice before allowing kids to carry $200+ portable electronics to school. Even some of the most responsible kids had theirs stolen.
The whole point to the story was not that people are immoral by taking the ipods that they found on the bench or out in public, its more about the fact that apple can actually do something about the stolen ipods, the fact that Itunes keeps track of every single ipod serial number that is plugged into the computer means that it could see if an ipod was stolen.
I was personally in that show, i was the guy whos apartment was broken into and they stole my ipod and digital camera (the guy wearing the redsox hat). Its different for people like me who go out to dinner, then come home and find that there apartment was broken into, and the 2 things they stole were the ipod and digital camera. I did nothing to show that I wasnt home, I did not leave my ipod out in the open showing that it was there, I did not leave my doors unlocked, I did not have the little while headphones sitting around. Someone smashed my window and climbed in, searched around the apartment and took it.
Its a whole different story from when you leave your ipod around and it gets taken from when your apartment gets broken into and they take your ipod.
Joe,
While your situation is unfortunate, it still doesn't make Apple responsible. Apple didn't break into your apartment. This is what you have renter's insurance for. Did you file a police report? Did you claim it on your insurance?
2 years ago, my home was broken into. Over $10,000 worth of camera equipment, computers, and *gasp* my iPod were stolen. I followed our normal channels though. I called the police. I filled a report. I filed a home owner's insurance claim. In a few weeks, I had all of my stuff back... and at no time did I feel like I should turn to Apple to get my iPod back... or Gateway to get my laptop back... or Canon to get my camera equipment... or Trek for my bike... etc etc etc.
Did you try contacting the manufacturer of your camera to see if they'll find it for you? Do you believe they have a responsibility to do so? Why is your iPod different?
If a company like Apple decides to offer a service of tracking down iPods, it should be done as a selling tool... a part of their brand... not out of some moral responsibility.
I should fix the above... I didn't have MY stuff back after a few weeks, I had replacement stuff purchased by my insurance company.
It is unbelievable and very sad to see that there are so many comments here saying it is okay to take things that do not belong to you. Did your parents teach you to turn in those things you found to the police or lost n found? Did your teachers tell you the same thing? It does look like the education system is failing in the US.
It is a brand new iPod in someone's bag or in a plastic bag. Does it look like the iPod grows out of nowhere? Or it got itself into a plastic bag? Does it look like someone is doing some charity work by leaving a free iPod in a bag on a bench? Come on people, that iPod must be belonged to someone and that someone spent his/her hard-earned money. (even Dateline bought them with their money, right?) What if it is the iPod that you save up for months for you, your gf/bf, your family, your child? Would you be glad if you can find it where you misplaced it?
Buy things you want with your own money. If it is not yours, you don't take it. What is so hard about it?
The comments on this blog are not promoting theft, or even condoning it. What we are saying is that it is not Apple's responsibility to take care of your device. Once you purchase it, just like any other piece of property you own... it is your responsibility.
If someone broke into your house and stolen your kitchen table, would you turn to the manufacturer of the table and demand that they reunite you with your table? Uh... I would be hard pressed to find anyone who would say "yes" to that. And why is this different? Because more iPods are stolen then kitchen tables? Because they're a digital device which runs software?
While I would agree that it would be easier for Apple to track your stolen iPod then a manufacturer of a kitchen table to track your stolen table... I still see no obligation to do so.
Take care of your stuff. You paid for it. You take care of it. If you think it might get stolen and you want some backup... buy insurance on it. (Of course, in most cases you'll end up spending more then a replacement iPod on the insurance over the long haul anyways...)
finders keepers, losers weepers
come on, no video???
somebody post this on YouTube.
This is not theft in my view. It's a case or poor morality for sure for 12 of the 20. For all we know the other missing 8 iPods are all sitting at local police stations waiting to be claimed. Is that theft too? Simply picking up something you find out in public is hard to see as theft. Come on. It's like suggesting that you're stealing if you spend that $1 bill that blew by your shoes on your way to work.
Now if I saw you with your iPod and purposely waited until you left to come and snag it? That's theft. Happening upon an iPod on a bench? That's really pretty gray.
Does it mean that I can use a forklift to "pick up" your car parked on a public street and bring it home since it was on a public road? Can I simply move it, without breaking in, to my place and claim it mine?
No one is calling those ppl turned in those iPods to police/lost n found are thieves. It's those who took it home and use it as it's their own. It is WRONG to take things that are not yours.
Robbery is a more serious crime, but that does not make stealing fine.
@OfficeHour:
Oh c'mon, now you're just being dumb. Firstly, he didn't say anything about "claim[ing] it his"- quite the opposite, he proposes handing in to a police station as lost.
Secondly, there is a clear difference between a portable music player which one would not normally find "parked" at the side of a road and a car which one would. You can't stick a car in your pocket, so the odds are if you find one unattended it isn't lost. An iPod can easily be carried, and is a high value item one would normally expect to find about a person, so the odds are one found unattended has been misplaced by its rightful owner.
The key to me is simple. Say you leave your iPod somewhere. You look around and you don't find it. Are you going to tell your friends that your iPod was stolen or that you lost your iPod?
You losing your iPod is not part of a crime. Your car vanishing from the parking space you left it at is not losing it. That's clearly theft.
@ treetrunkSo
what do you call the person who "pick up" your lost iPod on a bench and kept in his/her pocket? What do you call the guy who pockets your 1 dollar bill that blew away by the wind and you were chasing it down the street? Or in this case, a $250, MP3 playing dollar bill?
I did state that no one thinks those ppl give those iPods to lostnfound are thieves. Dateline showed one cleaning lady at mall turned that ipod to the security. And that's the right thing to do.
A small thing that can be pocketed easily lying on a bench does not mean that you can take it. A iPod in a plastic bag must be belonged to someone, right? It's very likely that it's the person who bought it from a store and put it in the plastic bag, right? If it is not yours, it is not yours.
There is nothing gray about "Happening upon a ipod on a bench" and use them as it's theirs. It is just wrong.
Wrong is the key word there Office. Yes, it's wrong. No, it's not crimimal. The person who finds my $1 that blew away in the wind? I call him lucky. The guy that finds my iPod after I will stupid enough to leave it on the bench? I call him lucky if he keeps it and a saint if he returns it.
Gray is the issue of legality. I would not take someone to court that found my LOST iPod on a bench and kept it. You might but I chalk it up to life lessons. And yes, I wish I lived in a fairytale world where everyone was just flawless but we don't.
It is very generous of you, agrajag, to let ppl have the things you left behind. But it is still a wrong act even it is okay with you. Those who took iPods did not get punished (from what we saw on the show), and it may show that an ipod does not worth the trouble to bring someone to court. However, would you be happier if you find your ipod where you left it and nor have to chalk it up?
we can always hope the world be perfect......
I watched this and the problem I saw was that these idiots that took the iPods didn't know that they no longer come with install discs. The disc Dateline put in there had their software on it. People that have iTunes already and didn't register for anything can get away with it. By the way when they showed glimpses of their database I saw only Windows users.
Predictably, nerd rage at the thought of getting caught stealing someone else's property. IT'S IN A HIGH TRAFFIC AREA I KNOW MY RIGHTS MPHLGMPH (stuffs another Baconator in mouth)
I'm an Apple Specialist and we do get people that come into our showroom with found iPods hoping to return them to their rightful owners. Labeling someone a thief because they happen upon an iPod in a public area like a park bench is just terrible from a Samaritan perspective.
In order to return your iPod I will need to install iTunes on my computer and maybe use it for a couple of weeks, yeah you are a very smart Internetter.
Apple Specialist? Are you sure you work for Apple? Because I'm sure they're called "Mac Specialists." And you're a dummy.
Apple Specialist don't work for Apple, we are Apple Authorized Resellers. We are called Apple Specialist, anyone in the 'Apple business' knows this.
I replied to the wrong thing, sorry.
iPods purchased at Apple Stores have the serial number printed right on the receipt, so it would be easy for the rightful owner to prove to the police or lost and found at the mall that the "abandoned" or "left" new iPod like those in the show actually belonged to them. I doubt that the printing of serial numbers on the receipt is the policy of all retailers, even the authorized ones, however. Also, on at least one occasion, the Apple Store asked for my email when I purchased an iPod and registered it for me during the purchase, so the serial number info could be obtained even without the receipt if needed.
Who cares if it's a trap, THEY WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH 12 YEAR OLDS! That's not right. And many of them admit they have done the same thing previously, so it is catching predators.