Looks like we won't have to wait 'til
CEDIA to learn more about
Toshiba's next generation HD DVD players.
Amazon had the model numbers and prices right, which are in-line with the last generation of players, with the exception of the top of the line HD-A35 it has an MSRP of $499 compared to the
HD-XA2's $799. The entry level HD-A3 has pretty much the same features set as the last time around, but its bigger brothers include a few extras including 24p support, (HD-A20 and HD-XA2 are expected to get an firmware update in September to enable 24p) and
CE-Link. Both of these features are a must-have if your TV supports them and should help Toshiba move a few more units this time around -- though those new looks won't hurt either.
Expected Pricing and Expected Availability:
HD-A3 ($299.99, October 2007)
HD-A30 ($399.99, September 2007)
HD-A35 ($499.99, October 2007)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Blake @ Aug 6th 2007 11:24AM
I want blu-ray to win, but competition is good for the consumer so prices will fall.
Josh Warner @ Aug 6th 2007 2:57PM
ANYONE who actually thinks letting Sony have control over a format is a good thing should take a good hard look at their track record - let's skim the surface, shall we?
MiniDisc: NetMD / SonicStage software, ATRAC3 compression, no digital export of recordings, exorbitant prices because Sony refused to open the format.
Memory Stick: One of the first flash memory formats. Fairly open usage, but the spec was proprietary - thus only Sony products use them; it is now effectively dead because of this (see: SD/MMC).
UMD: Sony somehow refuses to learn from the MiniDisc and releases an EVEN MORE proprietary optical format which they only ever plan to use on the PSP. No user recordings; completely black box format. But it's going to deliver movies - which cost the same as DVDs, even though you can't play them anywhere but the PSP! Yahoo!
Betamax: If you haven't at least heard of this one, you have no right to take sides in the HD format war. (VHS won, again because Sony locked up their proprietary format).
SonicStage Software/ATRAC3 Codec: Proprietary software and codec to interface with only Sony products. All but universally reviled for draconian restrictions, buggy interfaces, and yes - more proprietary lock-in!
There are others, but I'll skip to the present:
Blu-Ray: Proprietary, protected by draconian means (AACS and, because that wasn't enough, BD+ as well), BD+ designed specifically so you CANNOT make playable backups with any consumer Blu-ray burner. In an unrelated move, the protective layer on Blu-ray discs is 5-6x thinner than on standard DVDs or HDDVDs - why could that be? For the record, the HDDVD spec does provide for backing up your content.
Let me guess, all you really see is "Oooooo, blu-ray holds more dataz! Me wantey!" and have no idea what the formats actually stand for. Personally, I will put absolutely NO money into a spec which intentionally and maliciously disallows me from backing up my content. I suggest everyone who reads this does the same.
Vidikron @ Aug 6th 2007 3:29PM
@ Josh
You might have a point if BR was actually Sony's format. It actually belongs to the BDA, of which Sony is just one member among several tech giants.
addex @ Aug 6th 2007 5:14PM
Josh Warner: Check your facts next time, both Blu-ray or HD DVD support Mandatory Managed Copy.
Blu-ray Disc @ Wikipedia:
"Mandatory Managed Copy
Blu-ray Disc also mandates a Mandatory Managed Copy system, which allows users to copy content a limited number of times, but requiring registration with the content provider to acquire the keys needed; this feature was originally requested by HP." Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Mandatory_Managed_Copy
HD DVD @ arstechnica
"Microsoft and Intel noted several "requirements" that they feel HD DVD meets. "Managed Copy," for instance, will allow users to make copies of HD DVD discs for personal use." Link: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050927-5355.html
MegaZone @ Aug 6th 2007 5:47PM
And Josh missed a few other things:
1. MemoryStick is supported by more than Sony - Samsung, for example, uses it on some products. There are others. And both SanDisk and Lexar make the media, along with Sony. Last I checked, I believe MemoryStick was the #2 flash format, after SD. MS is certainly a broader success than other flash formats like SmartMedia and xD-PictureCard. It has even over-taken CF.
2. MiniDisc - there were other brands of MiniDisc players/recorders than Sony. Sony did control the format, but they licensed it. A number of my friends really got into MiniDisc before MP3 players took off. Making 'mixed discs' was big for them, because MiniDisc was small and portable - far more than CD, and wasn't as susceptible to skipping as CD. And the quality was far better than cassette. It was a decent format - and people forget it was not the only one introduced at the same time. Anyone else remember DAT or, better, DCC (Digital Compact Cassette)? All three hit the market at about the same time - MiniDisc was the only one to catch on in any volume and lasted for over a decade, and it was huge in Japan and some other countries. DAT found life primarily in semi-pro audio, and in data storage. DCC just died completely.
3. Blu-ray supports Managed Copy, JUST LIKE HD DVD. BD+ doesn't matter. BD always supported Managed Copy, but HD DVD used to tout that they had 'Mandatory' Managed Copy as a consumer advantage. Before release BD also adopted the Mandatory Managed Copy stance to negate the advantage.
HD DVD and BD have the *same* back-up prospects.
4. The coating on a BD disc is .1mm, with a 1.1mm backing. DVD and HD DVD are .6mm layers back to back. CD, BTW, is a 1.1mm optical layer with a .1mm backing (label side). Why is BD that way? Well, aside from Josh's implication that there is some nefarious plot at play, the thinner optical layer provides for better optical qualities - which allow the data to be stored using smaller 'pits' and tighter 'tracks', allowing Blu-ray to have a higher storage capacity than HD DVD. It also allows BD to scale to more layers - with 4 and even 8 layer discs being demoed already - while HD DVD struggles to get 3 layers. The BDA invested a lot of money in developing a new coating for BD. And TDK's coating makes BD *more* scratch resistant than DVD, even with the thinner layer.
And, to point out the obvious, if you actually manage to put a .1mm deep scratch in *ANY* optical disc - CD, DVD, BD, HD DVD - it is almost certainly destroyed. Most scratches are far more shallow than that - maybe .01mm. It doesn't take much to break up the optical qualities. *All* BD discs are highly scratch resistant due to the new coating. While some DVDs now use the same coating, most do not - same for HD DVD.
And, as has been pointed out, BD is not a Sony specification any more than DVD was a Toshiba/Philips spec.
Chuckles McGee @ Aug 6th 2007 11:12PM
@Josh,
And hey, let's avoid ad hominem fallacies here. Blu-ray, proprietary or not, isn't any more or less of a good format because Betamax or any other format failed.
Nfinity @ Aug 6th 2007 11:27AM
Hooray for the $150-$200 A2 models when these A3 ones hit the streets.
Jimmy @ Aug 6th 2007 11:33AM
This would fit in nicely with my HDDVR I got from Direct Digital TV!
Landlocked @ Aug 6th 2007 11:58AM
Now -- the most important feature to me...does it take minutes to boot up and open the tray and another minute for the disc to cue??
lalibelula @ Aug 6th 2007 12:03PM
A mí me flipa Toshiba. En eso escribo ahora, en un portátil de esa marcha. Pero yo a lo que vengo es a pedir ayuda... bueno, sé que lo tengo difícil pero como tú eres el blog más top :)
Te dejo mi nombre aquí por si te apetece echarme un cable, a pez chiquito :)
L
AlexP @ Aug 6th 2007 12:24PM
what
Crayola @ Aug 6th 2007 1:08PM
Sony en blueray muy potente! Toshiba es HD DVD graciosos
Wolfticket @ Aug 6th 2007 1:36PM
"To me flipa Toshiba. In that I write now, in a portable one of that march. But I to which I come it is to request good aid…, I know that I have it difficult but as you are blog more top:) I leave my name you here in case it desires to you to throw a cable to me, to very small fish:)"
Google Translate rules.
Wayne @ Aug 6th 2007 12:14PM
These should arrive on store shelves just in time for the HD DVD funeral.
J/K
Price competition is good as it will drive down the price of other players.
Steven @ Aug 6th 2007 12:20PM
Neat. Although I plan on buying the Xbox 360's add-on drive for my HD-DVD needs.
[Just as soon as the price drops here in Canada.] :)
Dave @ Aug 6th 2007 12:44PM
I glitch here, you glitch there :)
At least it looks are a "bit" better than its crap predecessor ...
Stephen @ Aug 6th 2007 1:49PM
No offense, but unless you're going to add some substance behind that, keep the troll-like comments to yourself.
SHOpkins @ Aug 6th 2007 12:45PM
This confirms what I thought about the last round of HD-DVD players... the hardware was there, they just needed to start driving the price down. I wish I could say the same about BluRay. The only BluRay player out there that will decode both TrueHD and DTS-HD Master is the Panasonic BD10a, and while it's dropped from $1k down to around $600 it's not down around $300 which is where BluRay needs to get. If I could have HD-DVD hardware (specifically audio decoding) and BluRay studio support I'd be very happy.
LJKelley @ Aug 6th 2007 1:28PM
I'm torn between getting the new unit or getting the older units cheaper... but I'm defineately getting my second HD DVD player (already have the 360 attachement) so that I have one for the bedroom :)
Doug @ Aug 6th 2007 2:22PM
I'm a bit disappointed that the low-end model of the line isn't $199 or less. Neither HD format is going to start selling well until the players are less than $199 (hopefully $149 or less) so the average Joe will consider buying.
In the broad scheme of things, very few people have (or want) game consoles, but everybody has DVD players. In terms of a "winner" in the high def disc format war, both formats have an equal chance until the average consumer starts to buy standalone players. Neither format has even started to approach its critical mass yet.
zargon @ Aug 6th 2007 2:35PM
I have been looking at new DVD player since picking up a new 1080p HDTV this weekend. I think my 7 year old Pioneer Elite is starting to kick the bucket. I am getting some weird, but subtle video issues.
The entry level Toshiba I looked at briefly, but I am still not sure I am ready to take the dive with some of the hardware issues. This may throw a wrench in the cog, the new models, but I am not totally sure. I also have a hold up on the prices of HD DVDs currently, I can't blow money like I used too (family) when I first got into DVDs.
Currently, I am looking at the Oppo 980 and 981 for a stepping stone DVD player until I consider the bug worked out of the new formats, which either means someone wins or cheap dual format player. Had the price for the HD-A3 been $200, I think it could have swayed me to investing in a new HD-DVD player for sure.
Oh well, should be interesting to see what happens over the next year with both formats.
Jason @ Aug 6th 2007 3:23PM
We've already seen the A2 sold for $199 during a brief promotional stint and it is now routinely going for $240 or less and the player premiered at a $499 MSRP just 9 months ago.
I have a hard time believing that we won't see this A3 player for $199 by the holidays. Anyone who would spend $150 or more on an upconverting player and not spring for true HD experience should just kick their own ass and save us all some trouble.
For the record my A2 works great and I don't have all of the "issues" jealous PS3 owners in this thread mention! ;)
zargon @ Aug 6th 2007 4:42PM
Jason, thank you for sharing your "insightful" comment. I guess I may have to go kick my own ass, as you so elegantly put it.
I don't see why I should or have to buy a HD-DVD player over a $150 up converting DVD player. Maybe you have some real insight to it... or just going to suggest kicking my own ass again?
I would get a real cheap DVD player, but I don't want a cheap DVD player. I want something that is quality. Right now, I don't think the Toshiba HD-A2 and doubt the HD-A3 is going to come close to touching what the Oppo can do for DVDs.
That is where my problem lies. I have way to many DVDs, currently between 600 and 700, to justify buying a HD-DVD player that isn't going to do them justice. Never mind the uncertainty of either format and the whole movement of DVDs in HD, it could go the way for Laserdisc or even SACD and DVD-A.
While I do have a interest in DVDs in HD and have since day one, I just don't see my self spending all too much on the media right now. Especially since the library isn't that big yet and it is split due to the war.
Now I would happily spend $500 on a quality dual format player, but I don't think we will be seeing those for a while. I would like to hold out to a quality manufacture starts producing them, Toshiba (yeah right), Pioneer, Denon, Panasonic or even better... Oppo Digital.
papoirier @ Aug 6th 2007 6:42PM
zargon -
The point being made is that the Tosh HD DVD players are excellent upconverting players. The G1 player I have (HD-A1) is a very solid build and upconverted better than my OPPO.
OPPO is great for the price, but the macroblocking I got (Faroudja is notorious for this) in dark sceneces drove me nuts. And I had to push the OPPO's audio delay to its max, 50ms on my model, because the lip sync was so bad. OPPO does other things well, especially playing almost all optical formats known to man, but the Tosh players upconvert just as well, if not better in some cases (like mine), without some of these gotchas.
The XA2 is one of the best upconverting players around because of the Reon inside it. And it can also play HD DVDs, by the way. You'd have nothing to worry about with this player (or any tosh player from any generation) concerning your SD DVD library.
zargon @ Aug 7th 2007 8:47AM
Wow toto, you are so helpful... look at all the great facts you use to back up your claim and the way you use name calling to drive your point home. Top noche, just top noche!
Don't you fret your little head while you try to justify your purchase. I have done my research and the Oppo's have always been on top of video performance. All the reviews and information I have read about the Toshiba units, don't say it is bad, but it just doesn't seem as though it is as good as the Oppo.
Besides, I stated my simple concern and people like you come in are being total assholes. Get the sand out of your vagina! You talk nonsense in this thread, I think you need to look in the mirror. You are the one making this post bad and nonsense.
Thank you papoirier for actually replying with something useful and showing us there is still hope for mature people on the internet!
zargon @ Aug 8th 2007 7:53AM
toto, you still provided nothing to back up any of your claims. You had to resort to name calling yet again to try to justify your stance. You sir, are the uneducated troll, or in laymen's terms... moron.
Isn't your 1st person review a 3rd person review for me? How the hell is anyone suppose to know what to even consider with out reviews. Not everyone can afford to buy all sorts of stuff to try it out in the home, so that is where reviews come into to play. I think you are a liar, trying to make you feel better about yourself by making everyone think you have all this nice gear.
My comment was merely stating my concerns, it never had anything in it that was trolling. You going around being a total douche bag, not backing up your claims and continuing to lower the mature level around here... makes you the troll. Now troll, why don't you go away, go back to your little fantasy world where you can feel better about yourself.
Maxx @ Aug 6th 2007 3:53PM
I am suprised that they let another generation go by without including 1080P in the entire line. This should be standard HD practice in my view. I have had the A-1 and the A-2. I am happy with my A-2 and have really started to lean back blu so I likely will pass these up but might change my mind if they are great performers from a speed standpoint. My PS3 will pause, RW, FF, slowmo, like a complete champ better than any player that I have ever had even in the SD world and this is where the HD-DVD players have a LONG way to go. They still feel like total dogs when it comes to response to remote input.
They are pretty though.
wickedpheonix @ Aug 6th 2007 4:08PM
Get a PC with one of the new HD decoder chips in the graphics card and everything will be silky-smooth and fast.
Meaning: Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive or a pre-built HTPC for most people.
SneezyPorcupine @ Aug 7th 2007 1:36AM
Meh. I'm still happy with my 360 HD DVD drive...
I'm just so worried about my 360 getting RROD'd. I purchased mine the January after launch...its still going. However a couple of my friends who haven't even had theirs for 4 months are dropping like flies. In fact I'm going with my buddy after work tomorrow to get his replaced at Bestbuy.
Its funny tho. Cuz previous to my new job, I had been working full-time @ Blockbuster, and I gotta tell you, a lot of people who had PS3s were solely using it as a movie player... in the entire 5 months of working there I probably only rented out 10 PS3 games but close to 200+ Bluray movies. Ofcourse it was just the opposite when it came to games. Another thing is, im quite unsure about all these discussions regarding the durability of the two formats' discs. But I can say without any doubt that Bluray movies that were returned to the store were almost certainly always just RAPED! Even if they had only been out for a couple of days. Our replacement fees for the discs had gone so high that we began to reduce the amount of Bluray movies we carried and began shipping more HD DVD movies.
SneezyPorcupine @ Aug 7th 2007 1:39AM
Oh and I also forgot to add that the reason Blockbuster was still carrying HD DVDs was cuz its in Canada. So dunt start spamming about me lying cuz they dunt carry HD DVD in the States.
Thanx =D