China outdoes itself with unprecedented surveillance initiative

The Chinese government, long-renowned for its tolerance, unobtrusive law-making, and general good vibes, has announced plans to begin outfitting its citizens with a new kind of ID card; one with an embedded chip that will include the holder's name, address, work history, educational background, religion, ethnicity, police record, medical insurance status and landlord's phone number. The cards will also carry reproductive history information, to further aid authorities in enforcing China's "one child" policy. Ostensibly, the cards will keep track of the large influx of peasants moving to cities, though Michael Lin, VP of China Public Security Technology, went on (in Orwellian fashion) to say; "If they do not get the permanent card, they cannot live here, they cannot get government benefits, and that is a way for the government to control the population in the future." Additionally, authorities are aggressively installing new security cameras around cities like Shenzhen, which utilize sophisticated recognition software co-developed by US companies like IBM, HP, and Dell. When reached for comment at the Ministry of Truth, the Chinese version of Big Brother was unavailable, as he was busy rationing out Soylent Green, Soma, and Ludovico technique treatments.

[Via Techmeme]

[FrankTheCrank @ Aug 13th 2007 8:36PM]

This is what kills me. Why are we doing business with these people? We are only strengthening them. We should not do business with China.

It's sickening.

Yah, I know, they build our XBOX'es, computers, HDTV's...iPods...so on and so forth. It's a vicious circle.

[AcidElement @ Aug 13th 2007 9:23PM]

Are you an American by any chance?

It's funny how you say we shouldn't do business with China, but what has your country's success been built upon jackass? Thousands of lives lost, hundreds of cities re-built and dozens of countries put into a position where they are dependent on US aid and imports. At least China doesn't invade countries in the middle east and try to create a monopoly of Oil so they can control the rest of the world. Before saying we "shouldn't" do business with them, take a look at your President, and presidents before him and realize you come from the most heartless, savage country in the world. I'm glad I left when I did.

Moron...

[yoshi @ Aug 13th 2007 9:53PM]

I'm glad you left too.

[Matt B @ Aug 13th 2007 11:04PM]

Um, they also build everything from IBM, HP , and Dell.

[James @ Aug 14th 2007 12:48AM]

Holy crap, AcidElement is the one leftard who threatened to leave if Bush got re-elected, and actually followed through! Give him a hand, ladies and gentlemen! Truly one-of-a-kind.

[nakamichijr @ Aug 14th 2007 2:51AM]

Isn't it funny how the rest of the world wants to take advantage of the benefits of the wild randomness that American capitalism creates? A free society will continue to produce the types of technology that will trump any attempt at control - even by those trying to use tech as a method OF control. The US system is not perfect but it allows greatness and failure (though not enough failure when it's big enough). China is on this path (I hope). A book called 'The Black Swan' deals with this concept in depth.

[Boing @ Aug 14th 2007 5:26AM]

You could equally say why does anyone do business with the USA. Your president cheated his way into power, started an illegal war with no domestic or international support, raped a country of it's assets and is now gearing up to abandon it to the wolves. Your army has defied the humanitarian Geneva convention in it's use of weapons and it's treatment of prisoners, you have re-introduced torture camps in Guantanamo. Bush has introduced anti-democratic laws of surveillance and arrest which if introduced in China would have the west up in arms. Has abandoned global environmental policies which were so obviously needed that your heads of state had to introduce them themselves and bypass their "leader".

But yeah, lets rip into China.....

[Brandon Neal Hatfield M.S. @ Aug 14th 2007 7:39AM]

We think ID Tags are such a terrible crime? A single upgrade to our ancient SSN Cards and we'll be in the same boat. Our SSN numbers tell people everything in the same way. The only thing different? We don't have a one-child policy. It's too bad, too, there seems to be an abundance of senseless breeding the US.

[tekdroid @ Aug 14th 2007 5:07PM]

FrankTheCrank @ Aug 13th 2007 8:36PM
Yah, I know, they build our XBOX'es, computers, HDTV's...iPods...so on and so forth. It's a vicious circle.
---------
If only Diebold were Chinese.
http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/


http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/default.htm
They sez:
"We Won't Rest until we've measurably impacted the businesses of our customers..."

That they have done to Mr Bush and by extension, the rest of the world.

I presume Diebold can rest now.

[nate @ Aug 13th 2007 8:36PM]

"aimed to fight crime"

this sounds like a crime of it's own

[HineyWipe @ Aug 13th 2007 8:37PM]

"Soylent Green is people!!!"

So therefore, the "people's republic of China" is food!!!

[edward @ Aug 13th 2007 8:37PM]

"one with an embedded chip that will include the holder's name, address, work history, educational background, religion, ethnicity, police record, medical insurance status and landlord's phone number. The cards will also carry reproductive history information, to further aid authorities in enforcing China's "one child" policy."

The geek in me wonders why the card does not just store a unique identifier (e.g. an ID#), which acts as a key into a database(s) containing all of the above mentioned information. That would make more sense no? Or maybe that's exactly what it is.

Anyway, who cares. Just sounds like an e-Passport to me.

[Ogami_ito @ Aug 13th 2007 10:33PM]

Edward said “The geek in me wonders why the card does not just store a unique identifier (e.g. an ID#), which acts as a key into a database(s) containing all of the above mentioned information. That would make more sense no? Or maybe that's exactly what it is.”

The probably do this because they cannot get the provinces to agree on a unified database. And they probably cannot do that because each province has a connected IT developer…or just someone who pays off an official in the government… to implement its own database. There really is no national database to attach this system too. In fact, within each province, each cities police department probably have separate databases.

And the system would not work because before the first card is released, there would be ID card “Pirates” who would make fake cards. With fake information. Sure they could issue an encrypted ID to each card holder. And I’m sure they would be able to get those encrypted IDs into all 1.2 Billion people’s hands…many living in the countryside without electricity.

And lets say they managed to make this work. There are some 200 million unemployed agricultural workers who are moving to cities. Within the next 20 years, they will ALL be moving to the cities. A dumbass ID card is not going to stop that. Its not going to solve any of their problems.

[Wwhat @ Oct 7th 2007 12:19AM]

Because that's already used and patented in most countries in the west?

[jroc @ Aug 13th 2007 8:38PM]

They also threatend to destroy the US economy. That country is getting more and more 1984 every day.

[JoeX @ Aug 13th 2007 10:10PM]

e-text + search engine = Wow! I would never have found this by flipping through the book.


Orwell actually briefly mentions China in the part of "1984" where Winston is being tortured:

The circle of the mask was large enough now to shut out the vision of anything else ... The rats knew what was coming now ...

‘It was a common punishment in Imperial China,’ said O’Brien as didactically as ever.

The mask was closing on his face.


Source: http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/books/1984-3-05.htm

[DickHardknocks @ Aug 13th 2007 8:40PM]

"If they do not get the permanent card, they cannot live here, they cannot get government benefits, and that is a way for the government to control the population in the future."



Sometimes I really appreciate China's drive.

The beauty of an authoritarian system is that you don't spend years of debate trying to get things done and ultimately getting NOWHERE.

Because they don't allow civilians to have guns at all...they have 1/10th the gun crime America has.

Because they regularly EXECUTE people for crimes against the government such as Embezzlement or crimes such as Murder and Rape, they have FAR LESS of it than America does with its revolving door prison system.

I'm not saying China is perfect. I lived there for 3 years and I know there is plenty of work they need:
improving conditions for the nearly countless poor, improving living standards, ceasing scrutiny of Tibet and Falun Gong, etc...but just like Michael Moore said, We should take a look at what other countries are doing RIGHT and learn from it - while reducing the things we do WRONG.

The NATIONAL ID card is going to be the next big thing. America needs them and just like China, I'd tell people up front..."NO CARD? GET THE F... OUT".

Its funny that the people who are against these kinds of "invasions of privacy" are the ones with the most to hide.

I just can't wait till the American government adopts that attitude and puts everyone on a short electronic leash...


...oh yeah...we have Cellphones for that too.

[Emceay @ Aug 13th 2007 9:15PM]

"Its funny that the people who are against these kinds of "invasions of privacy" are the ones with the most to hide."

Perhaps, but what about people who sense that something currently illegal would be wiped aside by future social changes?
That's like executing people for having mixed marriages before the anti-miscegenation laws were implemented. Or hanging someone for drinking during the few years of alcohol prohibition. Just because it's the law doesn't mean those breaking it are always wrong. Laws are are always too broad in an attempt to cover up a specific social fear.
They already lock you up for thought crimes. Instead of wondering who has something to hide, what will happen when what you're hiding is your free thought?

[Rob @ Aug 13th 2007 9:16PM]

Tell me your kidding?

"The beauty of an authoritarian system is that you don't spend years of debate trying to get things done and ultimately getting NOWHERE."

Although our system is far far from perfect, I'd rather spend years of debate trying to get things done and ultimately getting nowhere rather than being forced to do whatever our "ruler" says we have to. Didn't men fight and die for our country so we don't ever have to put up with anything even resembling China's system of government? I thought that's what WWII was all about. I could be wrong though.....

Do you really believe "W", or whatever president, should be the only authority guiding our everyday lives? I'm not saying I don't like the guy. Ok maybe I don't (20 months in Iraq caused me to harbor some feelings of resentment towards the guy).

[Waruwaru @ Aug 13th 2007 9:28PM]

"Because they don't allow civilians to have guns at all...they have 1/10th the gun crime America has."

2005, US had an estimate of 16,692 persons murdered. While China had 20,000.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-05/17/content_592568.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/violent_crime/murder_homicide.html

Less guns does not necessarily equal to better.

"Because they regularly EXECUTE people for crimes against the government such as Embezzlement or crimes such as Murder and Rape,"

See above in regards to numbers of murders. And people who were executed because of embezzlement just didn't pay the right people or didn't pay enough. Have you ever tried to run a large business in China without "proper connections"?

facts != propagandas

[Penguin Warlord @ Aug 13th 2007 10:36PM]

@Waruwaru

I completely disagree with all his other arguments except the one that you pointed out. Civilians do not need guns, at best they are a hobby (and a dangerous one). You do realize that the numbers you just pointed out state that China had 4,308 more murders than the US for a population of over a billion.

Now if we do some quick grade school math we'll figure out that China's population is 1,321,851,888

The US:
301,139,947

divde those numbers by the total murders adn you get:
China: 1 murder per 66093 people
US: 1 murder per 18041 people

So the US's crime rate is much in fact, much higher.

So think things through you dumb@$$.

-a proud Canadian

[kobayashi @ Aug 13th 2007 10:46PM]

waruwaru,

did you stop to think about the difference in population and what that means?
USA has about 300 million ppl
China has more than 1300 million.
That's more than 4 times the people.
With basic math and the homicide numbers you gave you get that the homicide rate is 3.7 times higher in the USA.

cheers

[I LOVE THE CAPS LOCK KEY @ Aug 13th 2007 11:13PM]

@Penguin Warlord

Guns don't kill. People Do. The culture and laws of china are different than the USA. Kill in China and expect a swift death with out a trial. Kill in the USA and expect a short sentence with the opportunity to appeal or plead insane then get off scot-free. Remember, culture and religion play a role in how people react and behave.

Case and point: Kennesaw Ga is listed as one of the 10 best places to live in America, yet it's laws require every household to own a gun with ammunition. When the law was enacted in 1982, almost overnight crime drooped to virtually nil and has remained low since then.

Also Switzerland requires all men to posess an Automatic Rifle provided to them by the Government yet they too have a very low crime rate. The FULLY AUTOMATIC Rifle is given to them as part of the country's requirement that all men under (I believe) 50 years old be part of the nations military. Once they have left, the gun is theirs to keep.

If you banned guns in America that would not stop some determined freak from killing, he would resort to knives, shovels, chainsaws, or some other means of killing. Also when you ban guns, the criminals will be the only ones whom own them as they don't care about the law in the first place.



QUOTE (with references) FROM WIKIPEDIA:

"Gun Law

On May 1, 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-1a] requiring every head of household to maintain a firearm together with ammunition. It was passed partly in response to a 1981 handgun ban in Morton Grove, Illinois. Kennesaw's law was amended in 1983 to exempt those who conscientiously object to owning a firearm, convicted felons, those who cannot afford a firearm, and those with a mental or physical disability that would prevent them from owning a firearm. It mentions no penalty for its violation. According to the Kennesaw Historical Society, no one has ever been charged under the ordinance.

[edit] Reports of resulting burglary rate statistics

Gary Kleck, a criminologist and gun-control critic attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law.[1] Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime. (see, for instance, this 2004 sheet of talking points from the Gun Owners Foundation).

Current statistics indicate that Kennesaw's crime rate[4] is definitely lower compared to surrounding cities like Marietta[5], Smyrna[6], Alpharetta[7], or Atlanta[8]."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia


Bottom Line-
More Gun Laws = More Crime
More Guns and Less Gun Law = Less Crime
More Armed Citizens = Fewer Gun Crimes- Who is going to want to commit a crime knowing there will be someone with a gun will shoot back? VIRTUALLY no one....

[john russell @ Aug 13th 2007 11:47PM]

Before you say they are better off not allowed to have a gun, consider the second amendment. They didn't give us the right to bear arms so that we could go hunting; they gave us that right so that civilians would actually have the firepower to overthrow the government if need so arose. Thankfully that has yet to happen.

[I LOVE THE CAPS LOCK KEY @ Aug 14th 2007 2:11PM]

"Also Switzerland requires all men to posess an Automatic Rifle provided to them by the Government yet they too have a very low crime rate. The FULLY AUTOMATIC Rifle is given to them as part of the country's requirement that all men under (I believe) 50 years old be part of the nations military. Once they have left, the gun is theirs to keep."


I forgot to mention in my previous comment, that crime in Switzerland (the nation of neutrality and peace) is also very low.

[DickHardknocks @ Aug 13th 2007 8:44PM]

Organizing records and information is a CRIME AGAINST CRIMINALS.

I think the funniest thing about Chinese is how they keep their BLOOD TYPE on many of their ID's and documents such as standardized tests.

Like they are setting you up for organ/blood donations.

[DickHardknocks @ Aug 13th 2007 8:49PM]

IF the Government really wants to crackdown on people they should do TWO things:

#1 Link all a person's personal information to a single ID

and

#2 GET RID OF PAPER/COIN money and digitize all money into CREDITS on that ID.

With a really good Biometrics plan, it would be possible to do this with minimal fraud, however even in the system we have now FRAUD IS RAMPANT.

The next best thing is to make digital fraud punishable by DEATH. China does that already and when America had ENRON, they laughed at us cause if one of their people did that, they'd have been shot to death.


National ID would help stop illegal immigration (they won't come if they cant work or get paid) and the Death Penalty threat against Scam artists would keep fake IDs from popping up.

Increase the risk, decrease the bull.

[hemmy @ Aug 13th 2007 9:53PM]

Anyone promoting the National ID card is fascist scum (ala Giuliani). It will not stop illegal immigration. What it will do is revoke your right to medical treatment, loans, education and whatever else the moment you call Bush or Cheney an asshole. The slightest notion of dissent against the government and your card will be invalidated and life will get nightmarish for you. It's corporate driven slavery and nothing more.

PAPERS PLEASE! Fucking Nazis.

[LeRobert @ Aug 14th 2007 12:58AM]

@hemmy

Godwin's Law proves true again.

Hong Kong had compulsory identity documents/cards since 1949, when it was still a British colony. Its purpose: to stem the flow of illegal immigrants from communist P.R. of China. And it worked. On the privacy issue, our ID cards only contain our name, place and date of birth, residency status, photo and one thumbprint (for REALLY quick passage through immigration at border crossings). I agree the amount of information that China envisages storing in their ID cards a little frightening and Orwellian, though.

@ all the gun nuts

I don't know when the Second Amendment got brought into discussion, but nonetheless, your fanatical pro-gun stance terrifies me. Guns were invented for the sole purpose of killing, and to do it swiftly and repeatedly. As long as there are humans, there will be violent crimes - and guns just make the process easier.

[hemmy @ Aug 14th 2007 4:38AM]

@LeRobert

Like clockwork, someone abuses the invocation of Godwin's Law. The National ID card is fascist in its implementation and threat :)

Secondly, *barbed wire* stemmed the flow of immigrants, not the ID cards in pre-colonial HK. It is practically a daily affair to read about arrests being made (to this day) of illegal immigrants which merely implies theyre actively trying to do something about it, but more significantly, it means illegals are getting in and have been getting in, all the time, and like the mexicans in the US, they make up an underclass there. You read about smuggling all the time in HK. You read about officials being arrested for taking bribes for allowing illegals in in HK. National ID cards will not stop illegal immigration, period. It is a means for fascist wanna-be's to exert control over the existing populace, no matter how littered with illegals it manages to get.

Do you actually think you can trust the american government to properly implement the National ID card and NOT abuse the american people? When you read about hegemonic-neocon-asshole scandal after scandal, hypocrisy, cronyism, deception, misinformation, disinformation at all levels of government including the corporations that back these assholes?

That Giuliani is peddling this National ID card as part of his campaign and here's his take on freedom:

“Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.”

He can take his insidious authoritarian bullshit and go sit on it along with anyone else that thinks the National ID card is a good idea (or will somehow magically keep out illegals).

He becomes president and implements this, and I then decide to protest one day and call him a "douchebag" in public. Next thing you know I can't get a driver's license. I can't get a loan. I fall ill and I can't get treatment. If it can be abused it WILL be abused.

Giulani's lawfirm (Bracewell & Giuliani) is also involved in facilitating the Nafta superhighway, linking Mexico, running through Texas, planned to go all the way to Canada - the precursor to the North American Union (There simply aren't going to be illegals to worry about then!). The contracts have been awarded to foreign interests (for the first time in history; the construction of. Foreign companies have helped in maintenance before) and Congress is fucking cluelessly unaware about it (not entirely true, at least Congressman Ron Paul and a handful of others are aware)

[LeRobert @ Aug 14th 2007 9:08AM]

@ hemmy

I, unlike you, am a Hongkonger; and I am familiar with what happened and what happens in my hometown, thank-you-very-much. The fact is our ID system did have an effect on illegal residency in Hong Kong. We are required by law to have it on us at all times, and failure to produce one's card to any police officer who demands to see it will result in investigation and, if one is indeed an illegal immigrant, in deportation. Secondly, barbed wire would have had no effect on the flow of illegal immigrants into Hong Kong due simply to the fact that most of them arrive by water. In fact, we have numerous colloquial sayings in Cantonese about illegal immigration with references to 'swimming'.

In addition, I take great insult to your implication that we have a corrupt government in Hong Kong. On the contrary, ours is one of the cleanest in the world; corruption is rare and, if taken place, is always prosecuted thanks to the work by the ICAC.

In terms of abuse of the ID system, I have yet to see any fascist overtures by our government. Our government hasn't tried to control our behaviour through a simple plastic card. The benefits of the ID cards have been momentous, though. Border crossings, either at the airport or between Hong Kong and China, have been sped up immensely. All dealings with the government is referenced by our ID number; this certainly simplifies the amount of data processing the government has to do to cross-reference each individual's information. Moreover, our hospital records are referenced to our ID number as well; this means that if I were to be admitted to the ER of any hospital, they can have my medical records on hand almost instantly.

The connection between ID cards and fascism is most definitely unfounded. Nevertheless, I concede that I wouldn't trust the American government any more than you would. To make a more effective point, however, I do suggest that you refrain from ad hominem attacks and vulgarity. The more educated you appear, the more seriously your arguments will be taken.

[Jesse S @ Aug 13th 2007 8:55PM]

Sounds like Britain.

[Tim @ Aug 13th 2007 9:03PM]

HUman rights? What's that?

[Ted K @ Aug 13th 2007 9:10PM]

That's awesome! Why bother having a card though? Just embed that little chip in the forearm or back of the neck!

[paul34 @ Aug 13th 2007 9:13PM]

What I find most interesting is that China tries this, and people make references to all these ideas of tyranny and the police state.

Yet when the US tries the same idea, people suddenly start crying that it will surely save us from "terrorism" and ensure "freedom," because, you know, that's what the US stands for. Freedom. Yea. What is freedom again?

[humpty @ Aug 13th 2007 9:18PM]

China is going to take over the world.

[ryan @ Aug 13th 2007 9:23PM]

In Soviet Russia, card scans you!

[David @ Aug 13th 2007 9:25PM]

When China does it: Oppressive, Tyranny, Evil, 1984, and Orwellian
When USA, UK, etc does it: Security, Anti-Terrorist, Freedom, Democracy, and Patriotism.

[joe23521 @ Aug 14th 2007 10:32AM]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Court Jester Becomes the King @ Aug 14th 2007 11:05AM]

That's because everyone is far more concerned with the new American Idol, Paris' jail time, Lindsey's rehab, sales at Wal Mart, whos on top of the MLB standings, who is being traded, fantasy sports, bling, blindly waving flags, or "what jesus would do".


"Politics are stupid & boring. Our government won't let anything like that happen here anyway"

[telepheedian @ Aug 14th 2007 2:17PM]

Ah yes, a perfect example of doublethink.

[Thrawst @ Aug 13th 2007 9:29PM]

Big Brother is watching.

[Alvin @ Aug 13th 2007 9:53PM]

Does anyone remember the US Congress' REAL ID Act?

"Data requirements: Each card must include, at a minimum, the person's full legal name, signature, date of birth, SSN, gender, driver's license or identification card number. It also includes a photograph of the person's face and the address of principal residence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

Looks like we're on our way, too. Certainly not as bad as the China card, that's for sure, but establishing a law that requires all citizens to have full ID embedded in mandatory cards opens up one hell of a can of worms.

"On March 2, 2007, it was announced that enforcement of the Act would be postponed for two years. The provisions of the bill will be delayed from going into effect until December 2009."

I CAN'T WAIT! Identity theft 2.0, here I come!

[matt @ Aug 13th 2007 10:16PM]

er, actually, it doesn't require the ssn - so basically, you're down to name, address, ID number, DOB, and signature. Oh, and a picture.

So... basically, what you're hooting and hollering about (identity theft!!!) is... wait for it... a driver's license. A really spiffy driver's license that's more or less standard across all the states.

We should all be quivering in our boots...

[Glazun @ Aug 13th 2007 9:58PM]

Hm.. I always wondered when governments would start using this.. though I would rather it told me stuff like how many steps I took in that week or how many words I said or typed. But thats a bit too sophisticated for this kind of tag.

[c churaman @ Aug 13th 2007 10:16PM]

Yes yes America is evil hmm because it wants to make sure no friggin enemies walk into its cities with a suitcase nuke. You really that stupid to think its all about the gdamn oil. All about the money. Oh my I guess you all must be right.
Yes, China and every other country on the planet is the good guys and America is the bad guy. Yes, lets Nuke America and get rid of the True red devil. Lets invade them and let the terrorists nuke American cities. America wanting to proactively seek out and ELIMINATE organizations bent on destroying them is secretly a plan to make more money through oil.
How wrong was I then...how foolish truly.
Yes, giving everyone a national FREAKIN ID card is the way to go and to track every citizens every move is the only way to solve world problems. Hey, I know!! Lets implant the chips into all the citizens instead. Ya that is the thing to do. And if anyone does not agree then they are evil. Ah, you say we are already conditioned to accept stuff like this because everyone has a cell phone. Oh but wait. Where is my cell phone *looks around for it* Ah, I remember....I DON'T HAVE ONE!!!

Tick tock little sheep.

[LeRobert @ Aug 14th 2007 1:18AM]

I'd totally agree with you if my sarcasm detector didn't go off like crazy.
The thing is, it IS about the oil, regardless of what Bush wants his subjects to think. North Korea has the nuke but no oil: no war. Iraq had the oil but no nukes: disaster.

If USA was really determined to completely annihilate bin Laden's little tea party, she should have finished the job she started in Afghanistan and left Saddamn alone. Or better still, embargo Saudi Arabia since that's where bin Laden's funding comes from. Alas, that wasn't how things turned out; and yet people doubt there were ulterior motives.

The more wars American provoke in the Middle East, the more terrorism will spread; it is a vicious cycle that won't stop with mutual retaliation, nor with a nation-wide surveillance system (i.e. like in Britain).

[olternaut @ Aug 13th 2007 10:25PM]

s yes America is evil hmm because it wants to make sure no
friggin
enemies walk into its cities with a suitcase nuke. You really that
stupid to think its all about the gdamn oil. All about the money.
Oh my I guess you all must be right. Yes, China and every other
country on the planet is the good guys and America is the bad guy.
Yes, lets Nuke America and get rid of the True red devil. Lets
invade them and let the terrorists nuke American cities. America
wanting to proactively seek out and ELIMINATE organizations bent on
destroying them is secretly a plan to make more money through oil.
How wrong was I then...how foolish truly. Yes, giving everyone a
national FREAKIN ID card is the way to go and to track every citizens
every move is the only way to solve world problems. Hey, I know!!
Lets implant the chips into all the citizens instead. Ya that is the
thing to do. And if anyone does not agree then they are evil. Ah,
you say we are already conditioned to accept stuff like this because
everyone has a cell phone. Oh but wait. Where is my cell phone
*looks around for it* Ah, I remember....I DON'T HAVE ONE!!!Tick tock
little sheep.

[Michael @ Aug 13th 2007 10:27PM]

"If they do not get the permanent card, they cannot live here, they cannot get government benefits, ..."

Actually we get nothing now. what if we got the card, then we can get them?
Nonsense bullshit!

[Chris @ Aug 13th 2007 10:37PM]

Ok uh this is really scary you guys do understand that in the bible it talks about the mark of the beast.
which people used to say was a tattoo but thats because one word was lost in translation it specifically said "In you're finger" in the king james version.

it says that no body will be able to buy food or water without this mark of the beast, it shall bear the number of the beast [which can be found in every bar code]or bear thy name