That's right Walt, kick 'em while
they're down. The godfather of tech-soul has given Dell's new
Vostro lineup of PCs and services for small (25 employees and less) businesses a thorough drubbing this morning. How bad was it? Well, he found the entire Vostro initiative to be, "nothing special, nothing particularly tailored for small business at all." While the lack of craplets (pre-loaded trial software) was a nicety, the fact that they ship the XP units without any "security software" but
with the notoriously insecure IE6 browser (not 7 or even Firefox) was simply inexcusable for machines sold to businesses without IT departments. He even dubs the affordable yet "bulky, plain" Vostro 1500 a "branding-and-marketing ploy." Ouch. See the man throw down the criticism after the break.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Joe @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:24AM
Wonder what Mossy would be saying if a certain white, fruit shaped logo adorned the cases?
Hal @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:08PM
So true.
Nick @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:37AM
gimmie a break he still said that most people should go get Microsoft Office.. its not like he has had so much of the koolaid that he said everyone should buy iWork '08.
I love how the Mac stuff is just barely in frame on the left side.
Cleverboy @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:14AM
No... Mosberg may like Apple products, but you can't spit on his ability to simply give a good rundown on what he things about any technology. Apple is raising the bar on expectations. Big deal. If Dell did something other than try to lower prices, I'm sure it'd get a perfectly good review. What you want banality to be rewarded? I'd prefer to reward innovation and get them to lower the cost. Anyone who's run IT for a small business knows that setting them loose with IE 6 isn't anything you want to get involved with after the fact.
Huy @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:19AM
He'd say it was "elegant" and not "plain jane".
Dextro @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:30AM
Try and order one on the Dull website.
There's 46 questions to be answered.
Joe Smith @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:32AM
well... I thought people didn't want crap software preinstalled on their computers?and now they suddenly want firefox? What gives, people?
Nick @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:38AM
ill take mozilla over IE anyday
Ceralor @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:45AM
Agreed. To be honest, I've loved Firefox all along, but it keeps getting farther from it's quick roots that made it so famous originally. They keep saying "Newer, faster", but all I see is slower, even on a high-powered machine.
IE7, on the other hand, is becoming more and more appealing. It's much faster, much more lightweight on the system, has tabbed browsing, and more. It doesn't have the extension support of Firefox, and almost all of the toolbars out there will slow down the launch of it a little, but other than that it feels much faster to use than Firefox does these days.
codeneko @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:57AM
Agreed, IE has finally closed the gap for functionality that I require in a web browser. In one case in particular they have added a feature that I found to be very nice: zoom no longer just scales the font but actually zooms in. Found this to be very useful when playing flash games with the kids... just soom in to make it full screen.
Truthfully speed has never really been an issue for me with netscape, mozilla or firefox. Never even considered using IE due to lack of the fundamentals.
Brad J @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:32AM
And, um, uuh..
AlexP @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:33AM
Well, considering the Vostros are basically rebadged and recolored Inspirons and the Inspirons are indeed bulky and disappointing, what he said was pretty true.
AlexP @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:34AM
I'm also surprised you guys are getting outsourced tech. support, because in Canada we get people from Ottawa. :V
Joseph @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:37AM
I wrestled with a souped up mac mini to compete with this computer. The Vostro is about 70% smaller than the optiplex GX260. the mac mini is about 70% smaller than the vostro. Mac Mini comes in C2D. Difference, is I didnt have to deal with boot camp. Literally they soup up the same way.
Plus Black is more appealing in a business environment. Unless you have a huge alluminum cheese grating tower on your desk.
plus vostro can act like a desktop or a tower. (we use it as a tower to avoid burn outs by coffee spillage)
Nate @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:35AM
I think he would be saying the same thing. He's been somewhat harsh to apple before, I'm sure he would do it again. If Apple ever released something as bad as, say, the vostro, maybe he would say the same thing, but Apple doesn't ever release computers that you would need to say that about.
Aditya @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:40AM
Walt Mossberg is avowed Apple shill and has no credibility in the Tech business. The guy fawns over Steve Jobs like cheaper hooker. Too bad there not another iTurd out of Cupertino for him to soil himself over.
jeremy @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:41AM
what I hate this guy
Jon @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:43AM
Mossberg in anti-MS shocker! What will we have next? A positive review of a white box?
Chicksta @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:33AM
Where are you getting 'anti-MS' from? This is a review of a Dell. While he's saying that Dell should have put newer version of MS products on the machine, that's not a reflection on MS, but on Dell. You're projecting your own personal biases; why the need for defensiveness about a crappy Dell review?
@dextro, Macs have had two-button mice support for over a decade, and have shipped with a two-button mouse for ages now. Why are you so insecure that you can't accept that some people might like different computers and use them differently than how you do?
Dextro @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:53AM
*sigh*
s a r c a s m
I'm using a MBP right now and there's a Mac Pro waiting for me at home. I've used macs for 15 years.
And for the record, Mac's haven't been shipping with 2-button mice for ages.
The Mighty mouse isn't a 2-button mouse either, it can be configured that way.
I'm wondering if macs had 2-button mouse support for over a decade, ADB was used instead of USB up until 1999.
And PC's had ps/2-connectors.
Eric @ Aug 24th 2007 11:17AM
Excuse me Dextro?
iMacs were the first consumer computers to use USB exclusively rather than PS/2 (or ADB in the case of Macs). They sparked the market for USB peripherals. It was the chicken and the egg scenario. (Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Answer, the rooster.)
PCs were way longer in making the switch to USB as the default connector for minor peripherals. Same with WiFi. Apple was putting them in all their laptops a year before the next manufacturer - Dell - did the same. Although Michael Dell crowed like they were some kind of pioneer for doing it.
theboss @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:44AM
This is what I call, same shi*, different toilet. It has a new coat of paint, but it's still running some cheap shi* under the hood.
Jon @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:48AM
And if the coat of paint happens to be white?
AlexP @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:51AM
It will still suck ass.
Dextro @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:57AM
Then we would fall down on our knees and thank the good lord for providing us with these excellent machines. Maybe there's even a small apple logo on there somewhere. Wouldn't that be fantastic? We would go crazy in our little fan-boy world, dancing around and spreading the joy to other idiots who can't operate a two button mouse.
theboss @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:03AM
umm. Don't get it confused. Im no Mac user. It PC all day every day for me. This dell computer just happens to be garbage.
BKMaxey @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:28PM
You know because, you have one? You've used one? You are assuming they are, because you are a Dell hater? Please explain why they are such trash.
nntpgrip @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:46AM
No manufacturers that I have ever messed with send you a computer with the Windows Updates applied. Always the last official, full service pack. For this fact, XP really needs SP3. IE7 is a must.
You can create really easy cache rules in ISA server to cache Windows update downloads. Really speeds that whole thing up.
All that said, not too much a fan of these new Vostros. They are ugly as hell. (At least the laptops I've seen)
BKMaxey @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:28PM
I have one of the "plain, bulky" Vostro 1500's. Plain? yes, but it's...a...computer. It's solid, with a magnesium alloy casing in some places (back and underneath). It runs Windows XP, Office '07, and all the other software I need. There are no cheap components in the system (@theboss). Oh, an I paid...um...less than 1/3 the price of a Macbook Pro, which means that everyone in my office can get one. Is it bulky? not really much more that an average 15.4" notebook.
jinxx @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:55AM
Funny how when we ordered a Vostro for the office here it came bundled with every kind of junk under the sun. I was sat for near enough an hour removing the crapware that was preinstalled.
AlexP @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:35AM
You forgot to remove it when you configured it, foo'.
h8rain @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:53AM
We have always bought Dells for our office, and I always order Optiplexes. When I saw the Vostro line, I was like.......ummmm yea I will still order an Optiplex, even if it may come with preloaded software. I usually wipe then clean, so I can have everything set and installed, then make an acronis image (or if it is the same as an existing machine, I write the acronis image to it).
Frank @ Aug 23rd 2007 10:53AM
Any small company should have an IT guy on call. He can install anti virus software for everyone in one afternoon... and show everyone how to install Firefox and ad aware. No need to bad mouth Dell for this. They still provide great machines for low prices, God bless them.
YouFaceTheTick @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:16AM
Wow, I consider it offensive when a machine ships with ANY software beyond the OS. If it does I have to totally wipe it clean before using the damned thing. I wish there were a checkbox for: "ship with OS, screw the other crap."
Virus software can be added later and ideally it won't be the sh!t from Symantec or McAfee.
Joseph @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:33AM
Any corp worth their salt has a symantec corp license. It doesnt require a server (technically it does, but there are ways around it).
Meaning, I dont have to uninstall the crap they put on there, which is a waste of time when i do.'
again, this guy is a bitch.
Joseph @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:30AM
I have a mac pro (and am an apple fanboy), but i do the IT at our work. We usually order dimension e520's, but when i called in, they gave me a vostro 200. They upped it to C2D and 2gb ram at no extra and threw in a monitor(helps to have good relations).
What I like? It has the speed our office needs and i dont have to format and install XP pro corp. It doesnt have the crap i dont want. It is small and beautiful. Even has some sleak design features like hidden drives (takes cue from apples G3 yosemite lineup).
This guy is a bitch. I am an apple fanboy and i am a huge fan of the vostro.
Jason Golden @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:39AM
I'm pretty sure he says "marketing and branding thing" not "ploy". It's a small difference, but ploy suggests Dell is knowingly and deceptively using the Vostro program to sell computers.
Which...is probably true. Yeah, keep it as "ploy" - that's what Walt meant to say.
pathogen @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:40AM
I actually bought one of these for one of my lawyers. It's not much different then my Inspiron 1501. I was kinda please when it had ie6 since in the past I had problems with one of our intranet sites would only accept ie6. I'm glad it was my choice to upgrade it. Besides that, the only difference I noticed is that is seemed light even with a larger battery.
L. M. Lloyd @ Aug 23rd 2007 11:45AM
You know, I hate Dell, I have never owned a Dell, and I would never own a Dell. In fact, I think just about all pre-built PCs are crap, and always just build them myself. That said, I really kind of feel for Dell here. They get slammed for putting tons of crap trial software on the system, so they give people the option to get the machine without all that crap, and then get slammed for not shipping it with enough crap trial software. They really can't win, because reviewers made up their mind what they were going to write as soon as they saw the Dell name on the box. What's next, slamming Dell for not including Windows with their Linux PCs?
pathogen @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:02PM
I used to feel the same way about prefab computers. But after a couple of years dealing with componet issues and trying to remember what I put in what computer it's not really practical after you get more then 20. It's nice if something breaks, and it rarely does, then a part is there the next morning.
Dale @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:58PM
I'm hearing you there. After the first couple of home-built systems, it became far cheaper and less scary to buy one pre-built.
Kal-El @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:43PM
But does it play Doom?
Dale @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:56PM
I am really bored of the anti-Apple movement on this site.
Ignore the hype, ignore Steve Jobs, ignore the fans and actually use one of their damn machines for a notable period of time. If after using one you can honestly say you don't find them easy to use, well built and well specified for the money, then waddle on back to Windows.
I switched over a year ago because I was tired of everything I did regularly on my computer being more hassle than it needed to be. For mainstream use, they are perfect, and the pre-installed software bundle is actually of use to the lay person. That's why they get good reviews from Walt - he reviews from the point of view of a normal person, and not the sort of techy nerd who is likely to frequent Engadget (myself included).
I have owned Dell systems in the past, and also used a variety for work, and their quality has visibly degraded over the years. It's a harsh reality of increased scale. Walt's bashing of this system is clearly that the system does not satisfy the needs of the market it targets and not that it wasn't designed in Cupertino.
koopa @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:45PM
Thank you. I agree 100%. I always wonder when I'm scrolling through the comments on here, why there's always someone who feels the need to bash apple on stories that have nothing to do w/ apple. Seriously, go to any story involving Dells,HPs, or any other PC maker and there'll inevitably be a "bet you'd buy it if it had an apple on it." Yeah idiots, we're mindless apple drones that blindly buy anything that SJ puts in front of us. It couldn't be that we actually use and like apple products, no, we prefer windows but Steve won't let us.
Douglas Brace @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:28PM
I setup on average 3 new Dell computers every week for a university with a Premier account and all of them come with IE6 and WMP9. I can understand being one version behind on an Internet browser but 2 versions behind on a media player. That is just sick.
William @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:37PM
"more of marketing and branding thing..than substance" - doesn't seem to bother him when talking about Apple!!
Also dont like the way he bashes canadian tech !
koopa @ Aug 23rd 2007 2:03PM
maybe he believes there was SUBSTANCE in the apple product.!HuH!*shocking*
Have you seen/read his apple reviews? If so, which apple product he reviewed is not what it's marketed to be? If you don't know, then you just wanted to bash apple while you're complaining about Canada bashing. Are you macbashers that self centered to believe that anyone that likes a product you don't like has to be brainwashed?
William @ Aug 23rd 2007 4:55PM
I don't want to start a row, but hang on a bit. First thing i should say: I have an iPod, an iMac, and have nothing against apple! HOWEVER... I would have thought it was generally accepted that thier products are surrounded by highly successful marketing. The notion of exclusivity is one. The iPhone would be my latest example of marketing intelligence over technological substance. It doesnt have 3G, none of it is really "5 years" ahead, but the marketing - mostly word of mouth/ viral excitment that even the carriers end up sacrificing 10% of thier revue to eusnure they hqve the product. it's about preception. Now, I am not saying this isnt a good thing - indeed we live in a world full of it, but Apple has to be THE prime exaple in the IT sector for using marketing.
dchamp @ Aug 24th 2007 12:17AM
I got one of the Vostro 200 Slim Desktops for our office. I thought it was a pretty sharp looking case. Internally, they have a full-sized 5.25" CD/DVD drive instead of the laptop slim drives - but it has a nice stealthed door on the front bezel. Room for 2 3.5" hard drives. Lots of expansion slots - but you're limited to short cards. I'm planning on getting more of them.
Disclaimer - work for a small business (15 ppl) and we probably buy 15 to 20 Dell pc's, laptops and servers a year, some for us internally, some for projects for clients. I don't really care about the software bundle - but not having the crapware loaded is a nice touch. The IE version is not even an issue. It takes a few minutes to download and install the new version. I use Firefox most of the time anyway. :)
TNP @ Aug 25th 2007 7:27PM
I am getting truly sick about hearing about Saint Mossberg - and from other media outlets, no less! . Engadget: sack-up and start the trend of ignoring this over-valued blowhard. Quit putting money in the pockets of the WSJ and it's new craven owner, Rupert Murdoch.