Hands-on with Creative's Zen
By Paul Miller 
posted Aug 31st 2007 8:09AM
posted Aug 31st 2007 8:09AM
Please note: If you're a current Engadget commenter, you do not need to re-register. Simply login and you will be prompted to select a username.
"there's not point in rushing out and buying something just yet, with an Apple event just around the corner."
Why do you keep saying that? Theres no way the new iPod is going to have an SD card slot, Divx/Xvid support or even be 16GB
Money hats talk.
"might not be much of a stand-out on feature set"
I sure hope you said that about the 5G iPod then seeing as though this has more features than the ZVM and the ZVM wipes the floor with the iPod for features.
I recently bought a ZVM. My choices were a Zune (Oddly, I like the brown one), an Archos, and the ZVM. I didn't even consider an iPod. Sorry, but iTunes has never been an application of love, and I quit using Winamp in favor of Creative's MediaSource on my X-fi. Having been impressed with the X-Fi greatly I got the ZVM, especially for battery life, screen size, and compatibility trade-off. I think I made the right choice.
I usually dont comment and much less on these ipod vs world type stories but i think some engadget authors really do take the biscuit with the bias...
"wait and see"?! -- it's started looking like some of these authors have a stake in apple. Could you have made this post about the merits and demerits of the ZEN (compared to other announced/released products) without making reference to something that might be a twinkle in eyes Apple?
Ryan, please do some house-cleaning with regards to who you hire and how they do their job.
Not to pick on you Paul, I just happened to have replied to yours.
You are out of line. Apple is the market leader for a reason, they focus on having the best UI, not just on the device but on the desktop iTunes component.
For a device to beat an iPod it has to have more over an iPod than simply MORE features. Cramming more and more features into devices is how most of Apple's competitors respond and they continue to remain clueless as to why they continue to fail.
How about you leave that up to the market to decide?
I personally wouldnt buy this ZEN as i require higher capacity devices but I do own a Zen Vision: M and appreciate not having to jump through hoops to put my TV shows and movies on there.
My complaint (yes that's what it was) is: Engadget authors should put their bias aside and review an item by comparing it to something that actually exists or has been announced... not fanciful stuff that they hope apple will release later.
For me personally it makes no difference as i'm not in the market for another player and wouldnt buy an ipod (whatever variation it is) unless it supports divx/xvid and not locked down.
TBH, i'm not a music person anymore as i mostly only do movies and tv shows, but this is not about me... it's about engadgets posts and how they push people towards the market leader even when they have nothing out to rival the item on review.
clean up you act!
Hmm, about that UI thing? Yeah, wasn't there some lawsuit a while back about Apple's UI stealing from Creative's? Yeah, I seem to remember that. Probably because the old 20GB Creative Nomad existed -long- before the iPod did, and IIRC so did the Dell DJ (essentially a rebadged Nomad). Both have the same interface, the same one Apple had, and still has. It's really not very different, unless you look at the iPhone, and, apparently, this upcoming touchscreen iPod.
@NDPTALS
You mean the UI that Creative owns...
I totally agree with you paakofi. This is the second article about the Zen since Wednesday that has asked readers to "hang on", by different authors. Similar sentiments aren't brought up in other player's articles, such as today's Samsung.
Usually such comments about holding off are saved for the, well, 'comments' section.
I also agree with your other post about the 'wishy washy' language of this particular article such as "certainly passable", or the "not a standout on feature set" (which is a far cry MORE standout than any iPod out there). ;)
(and NO I don't work for Creative, nor own any Creative player)
I guess I'll just stick to the iGadget... I mean... engadget RSS feed, so that I can get to sources quicker.
Best UI patented by Creative Labs. :]
Times change ... Creative used to come up with really HORRIBLE product design - this one looks ok. Nothing amazing, just "ok". Support fot wide formats is good.
Times change ... with the iPod we're locked into iTunes, which used to be such a cool way to manage my music, but the current version in my decent spec Vista machine takes ages to load and isn't half as snappy as Windows Media Player (which used to be shite but is now all right).
Verdict - I think we should give Creative a chance, competition is a good thing and I hate market dominance by Apple or Microsoft or any one else.
Looks like a Meizu Miniplayer...
no it doesnt, and im actually holding my m6 in my hand right now.
Any idea when I can walk into a storefront and pick this up? Creative's taking preorders, but there's no shipping date as far as I've been able to see.
Singapore? They always get the goods from Creative first.
I agree. This ZEN is looking like a great piece of hardware, dare I say the best on the market right now. When comparing codec support and expandability (SD slot), this thing blows the iPod out of the water. I agree with the blog authors assessment about waiting on the iPod announcement Sept 5th, but he could have worded it a little better. Something more in the lines of ...
"Creative's ZEN makes the Nano look like a kids toy; Can Apple come close to these features? Wait and see Sept. 5th"
So should I now start scheduling my life according to Apple's announcements?
Could all of the Engadget blog posts about the new creative ZEN be any more reluctant in admitting this is a good player. I'm not talking about the suggestion to wait until Apple makes its announcement, that's just good advice. Apple makes a quality product and if they announce a nano with video it may be a better quality product than this zen.
It just seems like every post is a battle for the engadget writers to not flat out say "I hate it, it's not an iPod." All we get is an "oh, it's OK, I guess, if you like that kind of thing... but you shouldn't". We even get complaints about things in the Zen that are the same or better than the iPod nano/video:
() More features than an iPod? "not ... much of a stand-out on looks or feature set"
() Flash based player that's a little bigger than a nano, but has a screen the exact same size as the 5.5G iPod? "the 2.5-inch display isn't exactly large enough"
And let's not forget price. The current 4Gb iPod nano is $199 without discounts while this is coming out at 8Gb for $199. So unless Apple both adds video support to the nano AND drops the price point on the nano line you're paying a 25%-100% price premium for what is arguably a better UI and a smaller form factor with worse codec support and audio quality.
The point is, this is a good player being put out that isn't just getting a tepid response, but rather the cold shoulder, for no apparent reason other than Engadget writers (strongly) partial to Apple products.
Actually, the iPod came after the Creative Nomad mp3 players. Sure it improved upon the formula, but so does this player for less cash.
Besides, the iPod still isn't a stong brand in the portable video department. Especially the Creative/Archos/etc screens are much better than the Apple equivalents.
But hey, everybody knows that a mp3 player is THE way to show your coolness and fashion addiction. So who cares if this player is cheaper and better?! Let's all just wait for the next iPods and then throw away your old one, because nobody likes a iPod that's sooooooooo August 2007.
The iPod sucks. The reason it sells so well as that it was one of the first mp3 players to really become popular, and iPod became the term ignorant people use for all DAPs. Then, when said ignorant people (the majority of all people, and apparently also the writers at Engadget) want to buy a portable music player, they buy an iPod.
And don't you dare try that BS about iTunes integration. WMP syncs just fine without being a media nazi. I personally prefer hooking my player up in MSC mode, then dragging and dropping, but most people prefer a syncing system.
There is absolutely no reason to buy an iPod anymore. It has less features, costs more, and makes you a tool.
Indubitably.
The comment I am replying to is entirely factual, but sadly will be - voted.
Right on. Nothing to add.
Maybe Engadget knows something that we don't know, hence the suggestion to wait for the 5th? Maybe.
Hardly a bias piece IMO. He said the Creative player was good, straightforward and responsive, with good format support etc. Why is it bias for Engadget to recommend to its loyal readers to wait just a few days to see what another company brings out before buying? The bias is coming from those that hate anything Apple!
I dont know how much of a grasp of the english language you have, mate but you can almost touch his reluctance to say anything good about the unit.
I might be reading too much into it but everyone who agrees with me... raise your hands
I own an iPod, so saying I am biased is not true. I like the iPod, but it's limited codec support, 8GB cap, and lack of expandability makes it much less of a player than the ZEN. This new ZEN deserves some major kudos, but it is getting none from the very source (Engadget) that has been demanding these features for so long - 16GN flash - divx/xvid support, AAC, MP3, and WMA support - and memory expandability SD card slot.
Since this was a hands on....Did anyone think to test if it'll accept a SDHC card.....?
According to Creative's website, it supports both SD and SDHC, both up to 32gb! :D
does it only play nice with windows?
or does it work as a MSD?
i like this... but i think engadget advise is very sound. as a consumer i want to have options, so why not wait 'till the 5th to have more options available to me?
It seems like (after the 5th) this will be the best time in a while to get a great MP3 player or PMP...
i love macs but i have never own an ipod... i a very happy with my yeep y7, until now. it seems like finally, the new pmp and mp3 players are taking a quantum leap in technology.
as a yeep user i have YP-P2 at the top of my list and this new zen at a close second. BUT...(and this is why i think engadget advice is so sound) all of this could change on the 5th. having 3 great products to choose will be a great buying experience.
so its biased to tell you to wait five days? Are you so impatient that you cant wait 5 days to spend $150-300 dollars?
give me a break.
I want this item actually. but I'll be waiting. The apple announcement is one reason, and think about it. just last sunday the 4 gig creative zen v was on sale for $60. on release this thing was around $150 and now its average price was $120. So really why rush?
And the bottom line is its not like this is already in store. so when it comes to waiting to buy this item, you dont really have a choice anyways.
Dont ever, ever buy a Creative Media Player. THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THEIR PRODUCTS WITH UPDATED FIRMWARE.
I beg to differ: I've downloaded and installed a firmware update for my Zen Stone Plus, so your statement is a bit misleading.
Um...I count 5 firmware updates for the ZVM alone.
users have been requesting an update to the Zen Vision W since december. I have a Zen Vision W, i cant add my library of music to the Zen, because as soon as I tell it to add it, it goes for a second, laughs at me, then the program crashes. I can drag one album at a time, that works.
Over time the database of artists/album art has gone corrupt, and music has simply removed itself from the Zen. It only lists artists by 'track artist' instead of 'album artist', so even though I have an 80's collection, it now added another 45 artists with one song.
Apple takes better care of its customers. I've owned both. Not trash talking Creative, sadly its the truth. Support your products better.
...and who says apple's offering will be any better? Just because they are the market leader doesnt mean they have the best products. Advertising, anyone?
After reading all theses comments, I think all comment should just be banned.
I mean what is the point of reading them if all anyone is going to do is attack the writers for there POV?
Funny thing is, this only really happen in three places:
Gaming blogs
Gadget blogs
Celebrity blogs
Well if you are all for free speech, how about not attacking me for having an opinion?
and BTW, I own an iPod, so dont think im one of those apple haterz, nub.
I have owned a Creative Zen Vision: W for almost a year now and while it isn't as slim and sleek as the (video) iPod, I bought it because it has a 4.3" widescreen display (something that the iPod doesn't have). Also, I'm a big anime and Japanese drama fan, so I watch a lot of fansubs that have been encoded in divX/Xvid. It's convenient for me because I don't have to waste any time converting my videos to put into my Zen. I just sync the videos in "as is" and I'm good to go. Of course the player itself is kind of heavy and the UI isn't that great at multi-tasking (it freezes if you try to do too much at the same time) but if you want more than a regular mp3 player and don't want so much constraints on playable file formats, then it's definitely worth a look. Be aware that it isn't the kind of mp3 player that you would want to take jogging around town with you though (it's too big for that).
I think it's fine if people are into iPods, but they should also take the time to look around and see other options because maybe, just maybe, they might find something better suited for them alone. Everybody has different tastes and needs and just because a product is the most advertised one, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best one (or right one for you personally).
My 2 cents.
actually, Cnet wasnt baised towards RIo, it was APPLE. that well, isnt a problem now that Ms. Jasmine France is the Dap editor there now.
The ONLY reason I'm considering buying an iPod is because of the INSANE amount of accessories available. The biggest accessory in my book is the integration into car stereos. Both factory and aftermarket are going nuts in that direction.
one reason why i concider Engadget ( and so do many other mp3 electronic fans out there) to be one of the WORST places to get your news, wayyy to much bais towards apple. WAYY to much. and because of this, its just a crap site now :( im sorry, but its true, when ever theres a post regarding an mp3 OTHER than an iPod, theres some sort of Pro apple phrasing, such as, DOnt rush for this player yet, apples announcing something September 5th, Engadget REALLY needs to rethink its New post's with MUCH LESS bias.
I think all this talk of bias is out of line. I really, really want one of these new Zens, but I was sure as hell going to wait a while to see if Apple could actually release an iPod I wanted. Turns out I may only have to wait a week to see if that'll happen.
I think that the complaints have moved away from the bias of advising that users wait. The bias that people are complaining about is the tendency of tech blogs to dock or minimize the features and advantages of non-ipod players while treating similar or (inferior) features in apple products as though they represented the next frontier in portable audio.
Engadget isn't the only one to do this -- in fact, they're not even the worst offender (cough, CNET). CNET's crimes are particularly ironic, since former mp3 editor James Kim (RIP) was a pretty strong advocate of -- Rio, I believe it was.
It's a shame that this player doesn't support h.264. Most of my videos are in that format and so far my options are iPod, Zune, PSP, and Sony's new Video Walkmans. Not much of a choice when I happen to use a Macbook.
And for those of you who don't know, h.264 is an open video codec that requires quite a bit of processing power to both encode and decode, unless of course you happen to have a special chipset designed specifically for h.264. If the Zen did support h.264, I'd be able to put MANY more videos on.
It does, however, support VC-1 (Main Profile). I've use Microsoft Expression Encoder to transcode over 50 movies onto an 8GB SD card with pretty decent quality. It's refreshing to have a decent tool that will do 2-pass encoding as well as crop to fit content to the full screen. It's something I really miss with my Meizu M6.
ahh its only common sense, dont rush out and buy a product when an ipod is due out in 5 days? Had no ipod been close to release then we would not hear them tell you to wait. I apperciate that comment actually because if i was a casual consumer who doesnt know of a special even being held by apple or rumors. Ide have never know a new ipod was coming out. Consumers best interest in hand imo, i dont understand hate for the ipod, i personally love it. But whats wrong with comparing both then making a choice when its only a 5 day gap? And i agree with the poster above who stated we all have our preferences. Im definitely an ipod person, bought my 4th generation 3 or 4 years ago, and not one trouble with it, been terrific. If the new ipod is what im expecting ill be upgrading for sure.
Leaving Every discussion and all the fuss aside,
Can you people go to the Creative booth and snap a lot of pics from there.
Please... some people really need to know what all products have Creative shown at its booth.
Thanks!
I was so excited about this player about an hour ago. That was when I found out that it _only_ supported MTP. Of course, I know I can just use libmtp to get support on Linux... but MSC support would be so much nicer. There is absolutely _no_reason_ for this device to support only the M$ format.
When will creative learn that it doesn't hurt to give at least a little support to the Linux/Mac crowd?
Hey, Paul, just how many shares of Apple stock do you own, because unless you're trying to protect an investment here, I'm putting this article down as iFan infected ****. And you're not the only one.
The Zen is a solid player, a right sight nicer-looking than most, and has a great UI. The feature set is second to none, expecially with an expandable SD card slot, a screen as big as the 5G iPod, and more vibrant, a small form factor that fits almost anywhere and probably feels great in your hand, and it isn't tied down to iTunes, although it supports unprotected iTunes tracks! You can use anything from WMP to MediaSource to your Windows Explorer to add content, and it has stellar battery life, and despite all of this you manage to make it sound like an unremarkable iWannabe. And because I have the fortune of commenting on this AFTER the Apple event, I can say that the new fatty nano is the closest thing Apple's come out with to compete, and it doesn't hold a candle to the Zen! A lot of people are reading your article, and you owe them an honest and unbiased review that does NOT involve belittling an incredible new product to satisfy your iEgo.