Vista users in Swedish community can't get online

While certain folks in Sweden have absolutely no issues surfing the net at ridiculously fast speeds, an entire section of Swedes are apparently going without simply because they're using Windows Vista. According a local newspaper, Vista users in Lund can't connect to the internet due to a "bug" that prevents Vista from playing nice with their Linux-based ISP. Of course, the translation is sketchy at best, but it seems that these poor users are being forced to pause until the issue is resolved; however, considering that the ISP is blaming Microsoft for the flaw and refusing to change the configuration of its hardware in order to cope, who knows how long these citizens will be without their daily dose of the web.

[Via The Inquirer]

[Liam @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:16AM]

That makes no sense to me. Anyone care to explain how this could be possible?

[frediko @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:29AM]

this is the microsoft support page they send users to.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/928233

seems vista has a different way of working dhcp?
are microsoft trying to force isp's to use microsoft servers?

[Keith @ Sep 2nd 2007 7:29AM]

@frediko

Would doubt Microsoft doing that, seeing as they tend to bully companies.

[John @ Sep 2nd 2007 11:46AM]

This is because Vista enables the DHCP Broadcast flag, which is *part of the specification for DHCP*. The ISP is using servers that don't support all recommended features of the spec. Look it up.

[nih @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:22AM]

Good service in Sweden eh.

[tchiseen @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:15AM]

actually, the internet in Sweeden is meant to be some of the best in the world, so I'm banking on Vista=sux.

[greenlight @ Sep 2nd 2007 2:22PM]

Well I have this ISP mentioned, and I love them since I get 100/100 Mbit for $15/month. No limits, last month I uploaded ~5 TB. Good luck getting a deal like that anywhere else.

[nih @ Sep 2nd 2007 4:53PM]

What? Low ranked? Since when should customers be denied internet access based on their OS?

Access to the net is almost becoming a basic human right. The only joke is that we all still pay for it.

[John @ Sep 2nd 2007 11:38PM]

You're right, internet access is a basic human right. I heard that's why we fought the revolutionary war to free ourselves from the British ISPs.

[Keith @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:45AM]

Vista strikes again!

Stick to Linux/OS-X/XP.

[Andune @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:53AM]

Never had problems with Vista and i live in Sweden (-_-)

[Dias @ Sep 2nd 2007 7:21AM]

They don't need to change hardware configuration, just replace that crappy admin.

[John B @ Sep 2nd 2007 9:54AM]

Right. Replace the crappy admin because Microsoft is using non-standard parameters in their DHCP client requirements. God FORBID that ISPs should use non-Microsoft servers!!

Jeez, you're an ass.

[MacGuru @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:01PM]

If only Microsoft would recognize that there are standards that weren't invented/stolen by Microsoft that would be great.
Java, AAC etc.. ring a bell?

[Dias @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:13PM]

Yeah, it's nice how swedish ISP is the only one who has problems with ms standards...

[Kris @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:56PM]

John B, you're an idiot. This is not some made up Microsoft standard that they're refusing to support. This is part of the DHCP standard that their servers do not support.

I agree, replace that admin!

[WhenSomeoneReplies @ Sep 3rd 2007 6:07AM]

An ISP can't just change how it's DCHP servers behave at the drop of a hat. They need to find a solution, anticipate how it will affect thousands of customers, the rest of their network and the other networks they connect to - then implement that solution plus any other solutions to mitigate negative consequences of the change. It's not a simple or safe job, changing their DHCP servers to broadcast will significantly alter the shape of traffic on their network. A weak analogy is this: imagine your country's biggest city has to change the direction of all their one way streets. It would take them weeks to work out how to do it safely and even then when they do it they'll probably have a gridlocked city. It's simpler for all those Vista users to download a .reg file and apply the MS fix to turn off the need for broadcast DHCP

[RedBull Runner @ Sep 5th 2007 1:02AM]

yes... SO much simpler for them to download a file to fix their internet service which they can't connect to.

[Miker @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:11AM]

It's Engadget propaganda...that screenshot's from a browser running on XP! Fraud! They'll be denying The Holocaust next.

[Bobbie @ Sep 3rd 2007 6:46AM]

WTF? Which holocaust?

Soviet Ukraine

Soviet Russia

Well the list of Soviet ones goes on for the length if it's history.

Darfur

Cambodia

There have been more than one Holocaust in mans history, and some continue to this day.

Ok and use GNU/Linux it's way better than Vista.

[dirtblade @ Sep 3rd 2007 11:42AM]

Wow, this Bobby dude is total moron! Sorry, just couldn't resist... WTF do u know about Soviets, Bobby?? Shut up and get back to current topic!!!!

[Jesper P?son @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:30AM]

I live in Lund and had problems with vista, I simply switch back to xp to they resolve the problem.
Nice to see that engadget cares about all the worlds surfers :)

[Nick Charlton @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:32AM]

Surely it just shows that it is Microsoft's problem when only Vista doesn't work?

My Sympathy is with the users, they now have no internet because Microsoft cannot and will not take the blame for something.

[wilkmd @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:38AM]

I think the issue here is a crap ISP. If I were a customer, I'd be cancelling ASAP.

Bet the ISP has a chip on their shoulder, has something to prove to the world instead of getting their own act together.

Maybe they don't know how to fix it and prefer to blaim others, lol.

[Pans @ Sep 2nd 2007 6:00PM]

But the ISP uses Linux stuff so they are, like, the big heroes of the story, and it gives us a chance to bash Vista.

If this was the other way around, I can guarantee you that the people here blaming Microsoft would be demanding that the ISP fix the problem to accommodate Linux users.

[netposer @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:40AM]

Why are they connecting directly to their ISP with their OS and not a router? Go get a Linksys router and be done with it. Let the router dole out their IP and let their ISP deal with the router.

[greenlight @ Sep 2nd 2007 8:31PM]

Because they sell 100 MBit connections for $15 a month. A linksys router will manage to route at MOST 10 Mbit or so.

[Taomyn @ Sep 2nd 2007 9:54AM]

It's a "non-issue" - you make a simple change to go back to "pre-Vista" behaviour and it's fixed. What's go hard about that? There's even a support bulletin about it!!!

So I tiny percentage of users can't connect because they seem to be in capable of making this change - more their problem than Microsoft or the ISP.

Must be a slow news day for Engadget....

[Covarr @ Sep 2nd 2007 10:05AM]

I bet Microsoft releases a downloadable patch for this problem that these people won't be able to access.

[Brad J @ Sep 2nd 2007 10:28AM]

HAHAHAHA, i didn't think about that. :-P

[jilie @ Sep 2nd 2007 10:07AM]

if the Mac community has such problem they wouln't even be taken in consideration

[Neebs @ Sep 2nd 2007 10:37AM]

That's because everyone knows Macs just work!

[axemte @ Sep 2nd 2007 12:21PM]

and make up to 2% of the user base worldwide. I wonder what part of that is in Sweden.

[MacGuru @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:05PM]

You forget that 90% of Microsoft is based on support and problem solving of their crappy OS.
Virus protection, spyware removal, DLL issues, MBR issues, driver non-existence and now they don't support DHCP. If Mac had a DHCP issue I bet morons like you would send an email blasting Apple about it. Although Apple represents only 2% of the computer users, they sure draw some serious flak from Microsoft worshipers like yourself. Don't you need to get back to your virus scanning?

[jilie @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:34PM]

no, actually i use windows without an antivirus, since years, don't you need to go back to repair your permissions? :)

[Neebs @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:44PM]

Back to my virus scanning? No, I don't need to because I'm not a moronic, uniformed, average Joe consumer. I have a brain, all my drivers work, and I haven't had a virus in 3 years. So, I suggest getting your head out of Steve's ass, and realize PCs are not the total shit the Mac commercials say. If you get a virus on Windows, it's the user's own dumbass fault for doing something.

[Neebs @ Sep 2nd 2007 5:53PM]

Engadget users upvoted me on a Mac-PC subject? CRAZY TALK!

[Brinkster @ Sep 2nd 2007 10:09AM]

The article translates to this:

In Lund those who has bought a computer with Microsofts new operating system Vista will be crestfallen. There they be unable to get out on the internet. Lunds open city network has a Linux server which isn't compatible with Microsofts operating system. According to Lunds energi, who runs the network, the error is due to a bug in Windows Vista and there are no plans to change the server.
- A change can lead to other problems. Our technicians are trying to find out what we can do. But it is really up to Microsoft to rectify the problem, says Åsa Holmander, product manager at Lunds energi

To Microsoft this all comes as a surprise.
- I haven't heard anything about this. No one has contacted us as far as I know. But if Lunds energi gets in touch I'm sure we can find a solution for this, says Michael Bohlin who is product market manager.

Lunds energi refers to a solution on Microsofts support pages. But for Annie Johansson who will start studying in Lund this autumn the instructions did not help.
- It made no difference and yet the internet works fine at home in Ljungbyn. Now I'm forced to borrow my little brothers computer instead.

[Jens Alm @ Sep 2nd 2007 10:36AM]

I live in Lund and have no problem with this, even when running Vista (though I'm usually on a mac), on the other hand, I don't have Lunds Energi as an ISP and neither, I'd venture do the majority of the Lund-dwellers. This is a university city however and I think most dorms are using Lunds Energi, making this mostly a student problem.

[Lund Guy @ Sep 2nd 2007 12:42PM]

I agree. Lunds Engeri is a very small player in the broadband market in Lund. I don't know the exact figures, but I suspect that they have far less than 5% of the market. They are expensive and don't offer much.

What else do you expect when the power company starts to offer internet?

From Lund via vista...

[greenlight @ Sep 2nd 2007 2:24PM]

All the student housing has Lunds Energi, so they have at least a couple thousand customers (delphi+kämnars is what, 2500 students just there?)

[Dae @ Sep 2nd 2007 11:01AM]

im glad all of my torrent & pron sites are still operational.

joking of course (or am i?)

[t-bone @ Sep 2nd 2007 11:40AM]

It sounds like someone is being an ass about this and it isn't Microsoft. The ISP has no obligation to fix the problem but it is something they ought to fix.

[Rurik @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:09PM]

This is because Vista enables the DHCP Broadcast flag, which is *part of the specification for DHCP*.

In so much that the RFC states:
"This addition to the protocol is a workaround for old host
implementations. Such implementations SHOULD be modified so
that they may receive unicast BOOTREPLY messages, thus making
use of this workaround unnecessary. In general, the use of
this mechanism is discouraged."

It's a deprecated feature in DHCP that Vista relies upon, Windows DHCP servers push, and alternative DHCP servers don't implement. The problem here is Microsoft standardizing on deprecated features.

[John @ Sep 2nd 2007 11:47AM]

Actually, the DHCP spec advises that you should include support for the DHCP broadcast flag in any implementation. Try again.

[Lumpio- @ Sep 2nd 2007 1:08PM]

Yes, that's correct. But SHOULD does not mean MUST (pretty important keywords when reading specs)

Also, a newer RFC (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1542.html , section 3.1.1) states that using the broadcast flag SHOULD be avoided altogether.

[jtc970 @ Sep 2nd 2007 12:11PM]

The ISP doesn't support customers who use Vista, so they blame Microsoft?
I guess if they want to lose those customers then they can do whatever they want. If I was the decision maker I'd wipe the chip off my shoulder and support my paying customers.

[ark_v2 @ Sep 2nd 2007 12:12PM]

Come on people, just use a router.

[John @ Sep 2nd 2007 2:19PM]

It's hard to find a router that can handle 200Mbps+ throughput (WAN LAN) without having to look amongst the really expensive ones :(

Besides, it works better without a router (well OK, maybe not in this case), so there is really no point in using a router.

[Lumpio- @ Sep 2nd 2007 12:19PM]

The DHCP specs don't say that this flag must be supported and you're blaming the service provider. Way to go. Microsoft is the one that's wrong here.