NBC's selling shows on Amazon Unbox, starting today

Naturally, there had to be somewhere to pick up those episodes that iTunes won't be delivering to the Heroes-addicted and "Jim and Pam forever" types, and it looks like NBC has picked Amazon Unbox to do the honors, and has started selling select shows already. If this wasn't a good defense for lifting DRM restrictions from video downloads, we don't know what is: as it stands right now, people will be able to stick with their favorite NBC shows on iTunes until the middle of the season, and then get sent packing over to Unbox -- meaning half of their purchased episodes will only play on an iPod or iTunes, and the other half will only play on PlaysForSure portable devices and Windows computers. Of course, the informed will buy shows on Amazon from the start, and to help that along NBC will be offering free pilot episodes of new NBC shows starting September 10th. Pricing so far hasn't diverged from the $1.99 model, and we're still not sure what exactly NBC meant by "packaging options."

[andrew @ Sep 4th 2007 8:37PM]

wow talk about ironic. They give up iTunes for cost and DRM to switch to Unbox for the same price and DRM free. I think NBC/Universal has something against Apple.

[Bootes @ Sep 4th 2007 8:45PM]

It's not DRM free. It's worse DRM, since it's not playable on anything but Windows and very few portable players.

[Louis @ Sep 4th 2007 8:43PM]

Where does it say there won't be any DRM. One of the NBC arguments was that Protected AAC wasn't strong enough.

What actually plays Playsforsure?

[Will @ Sep 4th 2007 8:49PM]

Not only is it windows exclusive, it is also a terrible DRM protection, been cracked so many times. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=114916) I really don't understand why NBC would go from a solid DRM service that is compatible with both Mac and Windows to a service only available on Windows and easily crackable. And they claimed it wasn't money they wanted from iTunes they wanted better DRM. BULLSHIT NBC! You arent screwing over Apple your little attack doesn't do much for apple, they make plenty of money, you are screwing over your customers. I don't know how many times I have said this, this week but, A business move that screws over customers in effort to gain more power is just bad business.

[b1663r @ Sep 4th 2007 8:49PM]

Bootes,

By very few portable players you mean everything not apple of course. Given that Apple is the one who escalated this into a war(by pulling NBC's content), that punitive measure turns out to be quite savvy.

I kinda wish Engadget would cover the news and speculation and do an article about how Fox is making the same sorts of gestures that NBC did prior to this. Look at Family Guys exclusive deal for example. If that particular Franchise sells well on that platform, look for Fox to make similar moves to NBC. At that point iTunes video is basically dead in the water.

[Adam @ Sep 4th 2007 8:50PM]

You guys *do* know that P4S DRM is very easily cracked, making this a much better move for the consumer?

The Big Guys are moving away from iTunes because Steve controls it with an iron fist, and not in a good way. Most of the things Apple does are in its best interest, with little regard for its partners or those who actually have to put up with their forced obsolescence.

[andrew @ Sep 4th 2007 8:51PM]

@ will thats what I meant by DRM free. because PlayforSure might as well be DRM free.

[Carlos @ Sep 4th 2007 9:29PM]

@Adam

Yeah we know that Play4Sure has been cracked but does NBC know?

Probably not - they have most likely been brainwashed by Microsoft into thinking that Play4Sure and the Zune is the way to go! LOL

Congrats NBC - your programs will be cracked and pirated because the market for Play4Sure content is so small and the DRM is useless.

Moving content from iTunes to Amazon and Hulu is sort of like moving NBC content away from traditional TV and on to those gas station screens, no one wants to watch tv at a gas station.

[David Clark @ Sep 4th 2007 10:07PM]

It does have DRM, however if you're concerned about DRM, you should probably source your content from elsewhere. *hint hint*

[Adam @ Sep 4th 2007 11:26PM]

@Carlos: Wtf are you talking about?

It's about damn time someone challenged the iTunes monopoly. I have a feeling other providers will follow suit rather than go DRM-free. Stupid, yes, but Apple doesn't care about its partners at all. It's that sort of bullish decision-making that make people hate to partner with Apple (granted, they make a lot of money, and by latching onto the Apple name, they gain the coolness factor, but from a business standpoint, they're terrible).

Apple is mid-90's MS all over again.

[Jorge @ Sep 5th 2007 1:13AM]

who cares. Just crack the window DRM and convert it to a ipod compatible format.

I think someone out there with lots of time will do all the work(buy the episode and convert it to a ipod compatible format and put on BT.) Yeah for most people since free stuff for people. Apple don't lose since NBC shows are there to sell more ipod but without them ipod still sell very well. NBC lose since more ways to get NBC shows for free.

[Señor Swanky @ Sep 4th 2007 8:37PM]

Yup, they'll sell about 20 shows. All to Ballmer. With a coupon. It'll be grand.

[my-cool @ Sep 4th 2007 10:15PM]

I buy lots from Amazon Unbox. Much superior to Apple TV (which I own). It works with my Tivo without any computer or switching television inputs. All using the same remote and same interface that makes Tivo the leader in DVR technology.

Also...to BOOTES above who stated "It's not DRM free. It's worse DRM, since it's not playable on anything but Windows and very few portable players."

Apple only has IPOD portable players while their are several Windows Media players...Archos, Creative, Samsung, etc. Try not to be too much of an Apple Fanboy...it makes you sound ignorant.

[Duscrom @ Sep 5th 2007 2:43AM]

I say Yay for NBC, Yes, someone DOES need to challenge Apple's Monopoly. MS tried that with the Zune, and that hasn't worked out too well, And the probelm, at least for me, is because the Zune lack Itunes Store. Now, it's true that this stuff won't work on the Zune either, i will work on my WinMo6 phone.

Yes, NBC is taking their content to a service that works on Windows computers and not 1 DMP... Wait, 2 actually. Works on pretty much every DMP except for the iPod and Zune.

Actually I'm looking at the site right now.. this basically benefits everyone but the Mac/Apple fanboy. You get a bigger selection of media players, with more competive priceing, AND can play them on Xbox 360 and TiVO, both are more popular and better then AppleTV.

[Kris S. @ Sep 4th 2007 8:37PM]

Because Apple and iTunes suck.

[Blake Kachman @ Sep 4th 2007 8:42PM]

Because your mom sucks...

[derek @ Sep 4th 2007 8:46PM]

Very intelligent comment... you make a statement insulting a product and company for no reason. You better get back to school before you are counted late and don't get your Apple Juice and animal crackers!

[Bob @ Sep 4th 2007 8:43PM]

You said "...and the other half will only play on PlaysForSure portable devices and Windows computers...", which is not quite true. TiVo established a relationship with Amazon Unbox months ago, and you can now download anything from UnBox directly to a network-connected TiVo. I think this makes the UnBox/TiVo combination one of the easiest ways to 1) legally purchase online content 2) download that content and 3) watch it on your home TV with no muss, no fuss (as long as you have a broadband network connected TiVo!)

[caleb @ Sep 4th 2007 10:41PM]

@Bob. The logical conclusion of the UnBox/Tivo solution is paying for Cable TV/Satellite and buying TV shows. The logical conclusion of the iTunes/Apple TV solution is buying your TV Shows and ditching Cable TV/Satellite. Also, why would you buy NBC shows through Unbox if you already have the ability to Tivo them?

[Alex @ Sep 4th 2007 8:40PM]

Good news for Tivo users.

[Alex @ Sep 4th 2007 8:42PM]

Of course, Tivo users probably already had the shows saved to their Tivos anyway. Nevermind.

[Louis @ Sep 4th 2007 8:44PM]

I guess...if you don't have cable and couldn't just TiVo the NBC shows.

You know the first time they come on they are free?

[TeddyN @ Sep 4th 2007 8:41PM]

The whole DRM thing is insane O_O

[Louis @ Sep 4th 2007 8:41PM]

Worst move ever? How many users will just find another way to get the shows into iTunes (cough, bittorrent)? Switching mid-season on people that actually regularly buy shows from iTunes. Good luck.

[TNP @ Sep 4th 2007 9:56PM]

@Louis "How many users will just find another way to get the shows into iTunes (cough, bittorrent)?"

Until all the ISPs kill any type of torrenting either by choice (as they've lied about their true network capacities) or mandated by the Hollywood Hoes (Congress).

[Ignacio @ Sep 4th 2007 8:43PM]

From:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070904-after-ditching-apple-nbc-signs-up-with-the-small-guy-amazon-unbox.html

"Amazon and Apple both use DRM for video, but Apple's DRM policies are considered to be "too lax" by many players in the TV and movie business. Apple's terms allow for authorized for playback on as many as five different devices. Furthermore, Apple-approved devices can be authorized to play content purchased from five different accounts.

Compare Unbox: Shows bought from Unbox can be kept on two computers max, and can be stored on up to two different (approved) media players. Users cannot "mix" accounts, meaning that a PC cannot have authorized content purchased from two different accounts accessible at the same time. As you can see, Unbox is more restrictive."

[Blah @ Sep 4th 2007 8:59PM]

Why do TV networks look at these two choices and say to themselves, "Hmmm...how could we make it as difficult as possible for the consumer to watch our TV shows?" Do they think we're going to buy multiple copies to watch on more than two computers? I don't get how they think they're losing money because I can watch my iTunes content on five computers as opposed to two. Even factoring in greed, it just doesn't seem logical.

[Nate the Prophet @ Sep 4th 2007 10:27PM]

Yes, and that's why I've never purchased from Amazon Unbox...I've had 2 computers die and 2 hard drives crash--and all my iTunes purchased media (though it isn't much) is still playable on my "5th" computer. Had I purchased from Amazon, I would have had to "back up" my purchase on a disc or external drive in order to still use what I had paid for.

If I HAVE to back it up on a disc or I'll loose it, then what the frak is the point of purchasing downloadable content?

[IGx89 @ Sep 5th 2007 8:20AM]

Nate, no you wouldn't! One of the sole reasons I prefer Unbox over iTunes is that with Unbox I can re-download shows I delete -- once you buy them, as long as you remember your username and password it doesn't matter what happens to what you downloaded :)

[Zal @ Sep 4th 2007 8:44PM]

Exactly why people turn to torrents. Who wants to put up with this DRM-laden crap?

[jowen @ Sep 4th 2007 8:58PM]

I didn't even think this service existed anymore. The whole point of having digital content is to be able to view it. I am sure they will sell tons and dozens of these episodes... lol

[mixman24 @ Sep 4th 2007 9:00PM]

So I can order an NBC show and have it sent to my Tivo for $1.99 an episode. uh...am I missing something here? Why can't I just set my TIVO to record it in the first place and then convert to my ipod for free with toast8? I still get the shows, I still have Ipod support and I save money.

[icfleming @ Sep 4th 2007 9:09PM]

Please tell me how to record the pilot of Hero's on my tivo. I am very interested in you back in time scheduling as my tivo only records upcoming events.

[Jeff @ Sep 5th 2007 10:12AM]

icfleming:

Use your "wishlist" feature and wait for it to come again. More information can be found in the user manual which shipped with your TiVo.

[Calvin @ Sep 4th 2007 9:06PM]

This doesn't really affect me as I don't purchase media online, but JIM AND PAM \O/. Yes, that was quite obligatory.

[Jonathan Allen @ Sep 4th 2007 9:16PM]

my understanding was that Apple will not carry the new episodes since the contract expires in December. Thus, all must be purchased via amazon......or NOT purchased via amazon.

[Carlos @ Sep 4th 2007 9:19PM]

Microsoft Play4Sure DRM used by the Amazon Unbox service is terrible.

- It has been cracked multiple times so I can guarantee NBC shows will be cracked and pirated
- Only works with a small fraction of video capable mp3 players -Zune maybe?
- And play4Sure only works on Windows PCs, WTF NBC - iTunes works on PC AND Macs - why leave out all the Mac users?

Fine NBC doesnt want to use Apples iTunes and its first in class DRM - well then why not come up with a better DRM choice than Play4Sure - that just goes to show how weak the decision making process is over at NBC.

unless of course NBC wants people to strip out the DRM and pirate copies of their shows -

At this pace Hulu.com will be a miserable failure.

[thk @ Sep 4th 2007 9:21PM]

Its not good for an industry to be dominated by one single entity. If you own something that you want to sell, the last thing you want is to be forced to deal with the only game in town. What happens in a situation like that, is that you have NO control over your business. So I get why there seems to be a music industry, movie industry and now even a TV industry backlash.

BUT,

NBC and the like, are forgetting one thing...THE CONSUMER. The brilliance with iTunes and iPod is the fact that they are both EASY to use. And Apple was first to market which means that they have had years and years to perfect their product, listen to their consumer, blah blah blah. And since the portable player market is dominated by iPods, iTunes software comes along for the ride (and of course the iTunes store). What's my point? It's EASY for the consumer. Why would I want to go anywhere else to buy my media? One click and within seconds, I am satisfied. Why would I want to be forced to buy my milk, steak, fruit and orange juice at four different locations? I COULD do that, because there is a choice. But why would I really want to do that? This whole thing would be the same as if NBC only made their shows available on the Dish Network.

The obvious move would have been for NBC to EXPAND their distribution, not continue to limit it. Build their business horizontally instead of keeping it vertical. Continue with iTunes, and build out with retailers such as Amazon, NBC.com, etc. This way they can plan on balancing their business, maintain the existing customer base, grow their distribution through multiple outlets, and most importantly, keep the customers happy. This is all under the assumption that iTunes didn't have some sort of exclusive deal with NBC.

The move to Amazon Unbox was made by some executive that clearly doesn't use itunes, ipods, and is probably a relic of person from the "old industry" that still thinks that the internet is a passing fad. The only winner in this situation is Amazon and Tivo. NBC loses, and so does the consumer. Exclusives never benefit the consumers...only the retailer. NBC doesn't have to worry about Apple giving it to them in the behind anymore. They now chose for Amazon to take on that role now. Just another move illustrating that the entertainment industry has no clue what they are doing.

[Andrew @ Sep 4th 2007 9:39PM]

Well said - especially the part about "The move to Amazon Unbox was made by some executive that clearly doesn't use itunes, ipods, and is probably a relic of person from the "old industry" that still thinks that the internet is a passing fad."

Expanding NBC to other areas makes sense and can be expected. Leaving iTunes makes no business sense whatsoever. NBC misses out on revenue and customers not to mention the ridiculous amount of backlash from Mac AND PC iTune users. idiots

[Wwhat @ Sep 5th 2007 7:43AM]

Apple listens to consumers? yeah sure :rolleyes:

[E.J. @ Sep 4th 2007 9:25PM]

This whole debate is a Giant Douche/Turd Sandwich dilemma - paying $2 for a TV show in the age of DVRs is stupid no matter who you do it through.

[AndrewNeo @ Sep 4th 2007 9:32PM]

Would all you people calling this a terrible move shut up? FairUse4WM works just fine still kthxbye.

[Nate the Prophet @ Sep 4th 2007 9:41PM]

This whole thing smells pretty fishy, don't you think? For all the reasons already mentioned here, it just doesn't make sense for NBC to do this willingly...therefore it stands to reason that they DID NOT do this willingly.

Apple kicked NBC out of iTunes, period.

Why? Because Universal tried to leverage their NBC shows in their ongoing music negotiations with Apple....at least that's what we're supposed to think. We're supposed to think that this was a power-play by Universal that didn't work, Apple saw through it and kicked them out.

But that's NOT what's going on either.

So what's going on? It has been proven (I believe it was mentioned here just a week ago) that Microsoft paid Universal to be HD DVD exclusive in the "HD format war." The part of that deal that wasn't disclosed--Microsoft stipulated that Universal/NBC drop out of iTunes in favor of the Windows/Microsoft exclusive Amazon system.

This all comes back to a Microsoft's desire to put the screws to Apple.

You just wait, this will be proven within a week!

[Gary @ Sep 4th 2007 9:54PM]

Ummm - Do you honestly believe that the Blu-ray camp has not made any deals to get studios to support them. This is simply business 101. Also, Microsoft did not pay Universal to be HD-DVD exclusive. It was the HD-DVD camp. Let's stop trying to make Microsoft the evil empire any chance we get.

[Nate the Prophet @ Sep 4th 2007 10:06PM]

Noted--HD DVD is not an MS-only club, for sure. But they have been the ones throwing their money around to back it up (because the software technology behind it is MS-patented). And I'm sure that Sony is ponying up some $$$ in support of BR too.

That IS business 101, absolutely. My point was not the MS is "evil" or anything of the kind. I'm just stating what I think is an obvious explanation of NBC Universal's actions. I still think it's the best conclusion given the facts.

[Gary @ Sep 5th 2007 1:46AM]

Well stated. I see your point.

[Patrick @ Sep 4th 2007 9:51PM]

I'm confused, I thought the Zune didn't work with PlaysForSure? Or was that just for subscription sites like Napster?

Oh, and why would anyone pirate this crap when they can rip high quality/def feed from digital cable?

[Luis Pablo Jiménez Martínez @ Sep 4th 2007 9:51PM]

Yo inventé la palabra Engadget desde el 98, pero Peter me cayó bien y le pase la idea por telepatia.

[TNP @ Sep 4th 2007 10:13PM]

Don't say 'si', say 'oui'.

/jk

[Gary @ Sep 4th 2007 9:54PM]

This just goes to show that the Cupertino released press release that made NBC out to be the greedy guilty party was all Apple PR. Why would NBC go to Amazon to sell 41.99 videos when they were doing the same thing at Apple. The simple answer is that Apple was squeezing NBC for all that it could. Not that I really have any sympathy for NBC vs. Apple. Let's just stop pretending that Apple's not a bunch of greedy corporate bastards just like NBC. The Amazon deal would of course bring in much less based on volume alone, even if the Amazon deal returns more to NBC per purchase. The big strike is that it is an attempt to bring down Apple's monopoly power in digital media which does exist and despite which many of you believe (I'm sure you'll all try to dispute it) is harmful to consumers. Case in point - Just ask yourself why divx or xvid are not the dominant video formats while they are vastly superior to Apple's (and Microsoft's for that matter) video codecs.