Naturally, there had to be somewhere to pick up those episodes that
iTunes won't be delivering to the Heroes-addicted and "Jim and Pam forever" types, and it looks like NBC has picked
Amazon Unbox to do the honors, and has started selling select shows already. If this wasn't a good defense for lifting DRM restrictions from video downloads, we don't know what is: as it stands right now, people will be able to stick with their favorite NBC shows on iTunes until the middle of the season, and then get sent packing over to Unbox -- meaning half of their purchased episodes will only play on an iPod or iTunes, and the other half will only play on PlaysForSure portable devices and Windows computers. Of course, the informed will buy shows on Amazon from the start, and to help that along NBC will be offering free pilot episodes of new NBC shows starting September 10th. Pricing so far hasn't diverged from the $1.99 model, and we're still not sure what exactly NBC meant by "packaging options."
posted September 4th 2007 8:29PM
I'm confused, I thought the Zune didn't work with PlaysForSure? Or was that just for subscription sites like Napster?
Oh, and why would anyone pirate this crap when they can rip high quality/def feed from digital cable?
Yo inventé la palabra Engadget desde el 98, pero Peter me cayó bien y le pase la idea por telepatia.
Don't say 'si', say 'oui'.
/jk
"...and the other half will only play on PlaysForSure portable devices and Windows computers..."
Fcuk NBC/Universal! Why do Mac users have to get shafted by this deal?
This really pisses me off.
Yay NBC! Now I can watch these on my Tivo! SCREW APPLE!
Haha, I couldn't have said it better!
Haha, I couldn't have said it better!
The fact that it plays on my Tivo is meaningless -- I can record it for free on my Tivo and not put up with whatever BS DRM restrictions get added.
Ultimately, it if doesn't play on my iPod -- I won't buy it. If I'm buying a video, it's so I can watch on the plane or other locale where I don't have access to my Tivo.
Sure, you can play it on a P4S video player, all 10% of the population that uses that instead of an iPod. I definitely think this will hurt NBC much worse than it will hurt Apple. Even without NBC, Apple will still sell another 20 million iPods this quarter. That's 20 million users that won't be buying ANY NBC content.
I'm wondering how NBC will feel tomorrow afternoon, after Apple has announced its new iPod line.
The Unbox/Tivo system is way too restrictive (yeah I have a Tivo and have used Unbox - exactly twice). Most of Unbox's content is NOT currently available for download to your Tivo. When you do rent a movie or a show, you can only watch it once - and if you start watching it you need to finish it within 24 hours.
This isn't Amazon's fault, though. The dinosaurs that run the big media companies are doing their best to stuff the genie back into the bottle. Apple is interested in padding their own pockets, for sure; but they seem to be the only company right now that realizes giving the user what he/she wants is ultimately the only approach that'll work (Tivo used to grok this as well).
This really stinks. I love iTunes and getting missed or favorite episodes from there will be terribly missed after they are gone. Although watching it from my DVR in HD is the most ideal way to catch Comedy Night Done Right the $1.99 price tag doesn't seem to terrible considering the on the go convenience, (Laptop & iPhone viewing). The DVR that my cable company offers isn't big enough to keep all the shows I want for an extended period time, so having them in my iTunes library has been great.
I just switched to Dish so that I could hook up an external hard drive. I now essentially have a 1.25TB dvr, lol. So far it's worked pretty well. Of course, if my external drive crashes I'll be pissed, but that would be true regardless (my old cable company dvd broke 3 times!)
"By very few portable players you mean everything not apple of course..."
He's not being ignorant or fanboyish. He's stating a fact. As Apple accounts for 75% of the of the portable media player market, yes he means exactly what he is saying: "very few portable players."
It's not being a fanboy, it's math.
You know, since NBC took out Studio 60 i lost all respect for them. If the following for Heros fanbase wasn't as large and passionate their next drop was going to be Heros believe it or not. So in my opinion NBC execs really have no clue what their customers want. They only look at the numbers and that's the problem.
I bet their thinking with limited rights and restrictions that people will buy their show twice or three times so they can have it available for all they home and portable devices. Too bad the joke is on NBC.
At least Apple had some ok to reasonable restrictions.
I still fail to understand why people WANT low quality, DRM wrapped downloads when you can buy them on DVD and rip them to every format under the sun.
Do you forget that downloads have ZERO resale value?
"Oh, I'm tired of Heroes Season One... I'm going to trade them in at MovieStop. "
"Wait, I can't. I downloaded them."
Until downloads offer quality that meets or exceeds DVD at a fraction of the price, I'm not wasting my time. I might download a show here or there, but it's only for the convenience of placing it on my iPod and watching it on a plane flight.
... and before anyone starts using digital downloads of music as some sort of excuse, remember that you can burn those to CD and re-rip them. Sure, there's a slight quality loss, but your music is easily liberated.
Then again, I still buy CD's at the store if the album is worth buying and similarly priced (when compared to the download).
Maybe this could have been a meaningful discussion, but then you have the ad hominem attacks (iTards?), which generally mean that there's really no discussion and no logical arguments being made.
Why all the fuss. I have been recording shows with my HDTV Wonder`s video input for years , and they can easily be burned to DVD. Free OTA HDTV is the best video quality there is...and it`s free people !
Two problems: it doesn't fit in my pocket and it doesn't work on an airplane over the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
That`s funny...my free TV shows do fit on my Moto Q SD mini card quite easily. Free video transcoding via Win Movie Maker or MediaCoder.
I guess some people are just to inept to figure that out ;)
Hm, i didn't realize SciFi channel broadcast over the air...
Oh, they don't?
Right. This isn't just about The Office... NBC/Universal owns some other properties too, and they don't all run on the primary network.
oh no windows only so i guess only 90% of computer owners can use it
10% of computers = millions of users!
When are you itards going to learn that it's not 10%!?
2% Worldwide
5% US.
Wake up, not everyone out there using iTunes is a hardcore apple fan. In fact, iTunes is the largest online distributer of music and tv shows. So even if unbox was worlds better than itunes (it's not), the majority of consumers aren't using the service. This doesn't just make it harder for apple fans to get the show, it makes it more inconvinient for everyone with itunes and an ipod (they're pretty mainstream in case you haven't noticed).
For some really weird reason, the TV studios want to make it as inconvenient as possible for people that legally download the shows and go with the strictest DRM possible (as long as you don't crack it, P4S is more restrictive than iTunes, as has been posted).
I don't think they care that P4S can be cracked, as all the pirated versions are available on torrent sites within the hour of the show being aired in much better quality than these downloadable shows anyways (recorded off on-air HDTV).
So this will have no impact on pirated TV shows, since noone will bother pirating these downloadable shows, this will only impact legitimate users.
Sometimes I just don't understand these companies, they try all these tricks to make life miserable for their legitimate users. And then they wonder why people turn to other means of getting this stuff.
Did they mean by "packaging options" offering a discount for multiple episode downloads, like Amazon does with complete seasons?
remember that nbc is microsoft based
@ all Engadget users:
Monopoly, you keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
For those of you not wanting to follow the URL, here's a brief rundown of the characteristics of a monopoly:
1.)Single Seller: Apple is NOT the single seller of music. Apple is NOT the single seller of online music. Is your argument that Apple has a monopoly on FairPlay? Well that seems a little absurd, they didn't invent it.
2.) Significant barrier of Entry: Um, let's see, Amazon UnBox, Zune marketplace, Napster, Wal-Mart, etc. Clearly there's no significant barrier to entry in the online distribution market. How about DRM? Well there's DRM-free option, and PlaysForSure. I mean, I suppose you could argue Apple has a DRM stranglehold, but the iPod plays plenty of non-DRM music.
3.) No close substitutes: Well having used iTunes as long as it's been available (and also a Mac user, thus no other options), I'm not qualified on this point, but based on simple functionality (and not actual interface and ownership models) there appears to be plenty.
Read the article for the rest of it.
Jeez, and these people bandy about the monopoly term, and when anyone disagrees they are straw-manned into "Apple Fanboyism." Sorry guys, it's not a monopoly, and I'll concede Apple might have fudged their story about the price demands of NBC when/if their new seasons aren't bundled and more expensive.
Actually I am a business school graduate with a very strong understanding of monopolies. We all know that in the true sense of the word monopoly represents a single player, with significant barriers to entry, and little to no substitutes, but that should not prevent us from considering entities that are wielding monopolistic powers as monopolies. You could make the same arguments for Microsoft not being a monopoly, but if I recall correctly Microsoft got in a little bit of trouble for that. The fact is that Apple wields significant monopolistic power in the negotiation room and through their products in the consumer space. If you want to look at it at it's heart felt definition Apple does fall into many of the monopoly defined categories.
Single Seller - Due to the popularity of the iPod and Apple's exclusive use of it's DRM, iPod users can only buy from iTunes (with a few exceptions like eMusic which we all know is not significant at all due to limited content and the non-DRM stores that are on the horizon).
Significant Barrier to Entry - Non-Apple stores cannot sell music in non-Apple DRM formats for iPods. Huge barrier to entry and compete. Again, it's only recently that there's been headway in the non-DRM, popular music space.
No close substitutes - Again, until non-DRM stores fully emerge and are embraced the only real alternatives are MP3 outlets like eMusic with limited selection.
Price maker - No need to even discuss this. We all know Apple dictates the price.
Hmmm...okay am not sure what you all are trying to say. This DRM thing is getting tiresome. I have no issues with DRM. I understand that record and broadcast companies are greedy and want to protect their music by making almost imposable for their customers to enjoy.
The truth is my ipod plays everything i need. All I use is mp3. So all my itune music is converted to mp3. I don't lose quality. As for the shows...there are no conversion software I know for mac. So guess what, i don't buy it.
So the best way to let these big companies know you don't want restrictions and DRM is not to buy their products. If numbers is all they care about then give them something to look at. ZERO SALES.
@ Gary
I would argue that you've created a pretty narrow ruling in terms of defining a monopoly.
The idea that Apple has a 'monopoly' on iPods or that iPods, as the dominant music player in the space, can constitute either a.) a high barrier for entry and b.) no close substitute pretty much would imply that Apple, in order to avoid a monopoly label, a.) allow anyone to sell Fairplay DRM tracks, or b.) allow other non-Fairplay DRM tracks on the iPod.
Those, to my mind, are rather absurd standards to hold a company to. Particularly when you consider the following:
1.) Apple's iPod plays a variety of formats. Mp4 (AAC), Apple Lossless, Mp3, M4u (Fairplay). All but one of those can EASILY be achieved by ANY consumer on ANY number of levels. In fact, the acquisition of music and application to the iPod is fairly simple. Rip->Upload. There's no compelling argument, to my mind, that Apple hasn't met the first standard.
2.) They could, I suppose allow another business outlet to use FairPlay, but as issue 1 would resolve both your claims about 'sig barrier' and 'no alternatives' I don't see any need to go further.
If you're going to construe the monopoly so narrowly, why stop there? Why not imply that Apple needs to let other hardware makers manufacture and produce their iPod? I mean, Apple has a monopoly on it. Or Mac OS X, Apple has a monopoly on OS X, and there is not only a.) a single seller, but b.) a monolithic barrier to entry (i.e. non-Macs won't run it) and c.) no close substitutes.
I appreciate your business school background and your understanding of monopoly, but I go to law school and my background is figuring out how business grads can/do/use lawyers to twist the grey areas of understanding to pursue a particular agenda.
In this case, you've narrowed the scope of what Apple has a monopoly on (FairPlay/iPod ecosystem) and in consideration of remedies, only one exists: Apple must allow other DRM. If that was the conclusion you wanted to reach, you did so. I chose a broader scope (Music on Music Players), and the result was that Apple clearly is NOT a monopoly.
Where is everyone getting the $5 per episode price they say that NBC wants to increase to? I am only finding this on second rate news sites. Pricing flexibility does not mean increases. Everyone thinks that the $2 is fair because this is what Apple wants to charge. This is a rip off for crap shows. NBC knows this and wants to lower prices for their crappiest content. Similarly $1 for some of the new crap music is a joke. Apple is too lazy or too incompetent to manage flexible pricing.
And if I am wrong and NBC wants to increase prices maybe people won’t buy it. This is simple microeconomics. If the price is increased and fewer people buy it than would at a lower price, NBC will lower the price. It cost them near nothing to sell the next product after it’s placed on the internet. If the same number people buy it at a higher price, why does anyone on here care? If the price is increase, it will likely encourage more people to violate the copyright. If the price is lowered, it will be less incentive to violate the copyright. NBC knows this. Does Apple? If they did, they’d lower the prices. If people are violating the copyright at $1 per song and $2 per movie/TV episode/video, it is obviously in priced too high – encouraging people to steal it versus pay.
I just bought the season 1 DVD of heroes for $35.14 off amazon, so why in the world would I pay 31.99 for the Unbox DRM lower quality downloads? (http://www.amazon.com/Heroes/dp/B000U6E4JC/ref=xarw/002-2702312-3568832?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=17Y5XB6HW75Y33A8YNTS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=307732601&pf_rd_i=46053011)
Unbox itself is hidden on the left of the main page.
Well, the Unbox downloads are allegedly(I dont know I havent looked at them) DVD quality, and you can redownload them again whenever you need them again(Assuming Amazon doesnt close up shop someday). While your DVD ~might~ get damaged some day. So in theory at least, the downloads are a more durable format.
But it's trickier to watch them in your living room.
Ass long as I can play it on my Zune I'll be happy. (that includes using fairuse4wm / etc to strip the DRM)
Como han subido los comentarios desde que se regalan gadgets!!!
NBC, so greedy..
All of which means they'll be lucky if they net over $300K of revenue per annum..
HAHAH - WHAT A STUPID COMPANY - that won't even cover 10% of the web development costs!!
Music, of course, is an entirely different matter....
For what it's worth Heroes also showed up on the 360's video download service in HD for free in the last few days. Kinda seems like they're testing out a lot of markets.
"Did they mean by "packaging options" offering a discount for multiple episode downloads, like Amazon does with complete seasons?"
iTunes already seems to do this. At least the few times I've browsed the store I've seen a discount for buying a whole season.
Apple wanted to sell the shows for 4.99 per episode, few would pay that. THey are 1.99 with Amazon. NBC and Amazon's ties with GE are what made this deal
Check out http://www.newsvisual.com/newsvisual/2007/09/connections-w-1.html
Amazon Unbox sucks. It is so slow when it works but most of the time it does not work. I just rented some movie and it is still downloading at 0.0% after 3 days!!