iPod touch having display issues?

No rest for the weary on the Apple LCD front -- hot the heels of reports that the 20-inch iMac's screen is less than impressive, word on the street (and Apple's support forums) is the iPod touch is having trouble displaying blacks correctly. Posters have described is everything from a "negative black effect" to "shimmering" to simply "washed-out." We're hearing that simply bringing a defective unit back to an Apple Store will result in an immediate swap, but it certainly looks like Steve was glossing over a detail or two when he said the touch had the "same screen" as the iPhone, eh?

[Thanks, Mobilehavoc]

[Steve Butler @ Sep 15th 2007 12:05PM]

Ahhh I have ordered a touch and now I want one less and less

[Ireland @ Sep 15th 2007 12:24PM]

The good thing I find about Apple is they usually exchange products like this if they have problems. Back when I purchased my 5G iPod I found one dead pixel, I rang Apple and they exchanged it for a new one immediately. Rest assured if your iPod touch can't display blacks correctly, if you let Apple know you'll get it exchanged promptly.

[Alan Partridge @ Sep 15th 2007 12:28PM]

This Gizmodo (spit) image is pretty damning:
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/09/IMG_2013.JPG

Look at the difference in how they display black/grey colours. (Iphone on the bottom, Touch on the top)

[DaMan09 @ Sep 15th 2007 1:52PM]

@ireland

That is complete BS, It may be the apple store that I live by, but when my Macbook charger was on the verge of lighting my house on fire when the outside insulation started melting, they tried to make me buy a new one. Again, it may be the store I go to, but they had given me complete crap.

[johnzilla @ Sep 15th 2007 7:06PM]

@DaMan09:

It isn't the store you go to, it is you.

They wouldn't replace it because there's no way for them to know if the insulation problem was caused by manufacturer defect or abuse by the owner (you). If you constantly roll your chair over your power cable, for example, the insulation is going to get messed up. That isn't Apple's fault.

I'm not saying you messed up your cord, I'm saying Apple can't determine for sure if you did or not, thus they won't just replace it. For something that is clearly a manufacturer defect (like a dead pixel), they will gladly swap it out as I've experienced first hand.

[DaMan09 @ Sep 15th 2007 7:50PM]

@JOHNZILLA

Well, it was the end closer to the laptop (IE right next to the charger port.)

[Hashbrown @ Sep 16th 2007 11:12PM]

Actually, it's not just an ipod touch problem. I have an iphone and I have the exact same problem with my screen. I got my phone about a month ago. The other phones in the store could render blacks much better.

When I asked the "genius" at the apple store in pasadena, he said that apple wouldn't do anything about it or exchange it and that it was in spec. Apparently not being able to make out any detail in dark scenes of video is acceptable to apple, or the guy working at the bar was just a jerk collecting a paycheck.

[mathue @ Sep 17th 2007 12:00AM]

DaMan,

I dunno why you had the trouble. When I had the connector begin to fail, i.e. long before fraying, my local store (Pleasanton, CA) replaced it outright. Granted it was clear that mine wasn't abused since I had it swapped before it looked mechanically damaged.

[mathue @ Sep 17th 2007 12:00AM]

Alan Partridge,

How exactly is this damning? You're going to see differences if you have them set side to side '69' like that. Not to mention why on earth would one think they are going to use the same display between the two machines?

[Rob @ Sep 15th 2007 12:12PM]

Man, Apple is letting me down more and more lately. Sure they're coming out with some cool developments. But, at the same time, they're getting crappy with the quality of their products. Maybe they need to choose their factories more carefully.

[Darkest Daze @ Sep 15th 2007 2:10PM]

No one every believed me when I said that Apple was just like every other company and that once they started getting too popular, they would drop the ball just like every other corporation out there. Sure they're still making nice looking products, but the more they come out with (and more intricate they are), the lower the overall quality of their products become. When you are popular, you tend to rush a little bit more and have less control over quality unless you scale your business properly, unfortunately, a lot of companies stumble when they get to this part.

I'm no Apple fan, but I do hope that Apple can start pulling it's self back together before it gets out of control. Competition is a nice thing to have, and they do help force companies to implement ideas that can be good for the industry/consumer.

[John Doe @ Sep 15th 2007 2:15PM]

Yah lately. What rock have you been hiding under? Apple has had issues on every one of their products from the iBooks, MacBooks, to the touch. Apple had shit QC on both their software and hardware and that isn't an exageration. (I've lost count the # of times Apple has pulled a software update hours after releasing it or released an update for the update.) I'm 100% certain that its simply due to Apple and their dumbass approach to secrets.

[Oranges for me! @ Sep 15th 2007 2:17PM]

man, you think the factory decided to use 18-bit panels on their own?

The fanboys are the root of Apple's problems. Everytime someone complains about the lack of quality in some Apple product, there would be 10 fanboys jumping up and down claiming that it's all FUD and the problems don't exist.

This automatically lead to Apple thinking that Jobs' Reality Distortion Field works so well that Apple customers are willing to put up with ANY kind of sh*t just to be able to say they bought some Apple product. So they start cutting costs, service and so on.

Apple used to have quality products. I have a first generation iPod, paid a bloody premium for it at the time. The amount I paid for then can buy a cheap laptop now, and I was happy to do so, because it was a pretty cool product then. I haven't bought a single product since. I even avoid using Quicktime, not to mention iTunes.

Their recent hostility towards OSS is more reason for me to avoid their products.

Perhaps Apple is only really good when they are the alternative, the underdog seeking to open new markets and avenues. But they act like every other profit-first-customers-last companies once they have established footholes in their niche.

It's sad, but I really do think the fanboys contribute significantly towards this "Apple culture".

[humpty @ Sep 15th 2007 12:15PM]

Only the best components for Apple Products.. thats why you guys are paying the Apple Tax.. lol @ u .. LMAO!

[Will @ Sep 16th 2007 12:20AM]

When calling people dumb I recommend using words instead of idiot tween acronyms. You should also consider putting apostrophes in your contractions, like "that's." Otherwise people just see you as someone like the "Get a brain, moran" guy and dismiss whatever you have to say.

This public service announcement was sponsored by Will.

[Dias @ Sep 15th 2007 12:15PM]

Many users report about mediocre audio too (the same as iPhone).

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=355025

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=205272

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/tested-iphone-screen-better-than-the-ipod-touch-screen-299774.php

It seems that in order to low the prices, instead of cutting down profit margin, they cutting down component quality.

[Dias @ Sep 15th 2007 12:15PM]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=354772&page=3

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1131324&tstart=0

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=354541&page=9

[Jacob @ Sep 15th 2007 12:18PM]

This is part of the customary Apple release cycle. Apple users are notoriously some of the most anal-retentive, pedantic consumers on the face of the planet. After any new release you have someone who goes over said product as if they were inspecting a NASA space shuttle. Obviously, flaws are found, then propagated amongst the online communities making other apple users aware of issues they would have never knew existed without being OCD. I know this because I'm an Apple user and see it happen after EVERY product release.

I'm not giving Apple a pass here, but other manufacturers aren't subjected to nearly the amount of scrutiny that Apple is. This is why you have the constant perpetuation of the "don't buy anything Apple first generation", yet they continually have the lowest failure rates, and highest customer satisfaction in the industry. A bit incongruent--don't you think?

[angelsvairwaves1 @ Sep 15th 2007 12:21PM]

exactly.

[humpty @ Sep 15th 2007 12:24PM]

You're right, it does sounds like you're giving them a pass. It doesnt negate the fact that the Touch is an premature, inbred pos that needs more gb, bt, and a better screen.

[Karim Hamasni @ Sep 15th 2007 12:38PM]

I think the Gizmondo link somebody posted above speaks volumes over what you're saying. Your generalized statement just got trumped by photographic PROOF.

[luckywinner! @ Sep 15th 2007 12:53PM]

its also why other manufactures sit so far in the shadows of apple. if your going to make a name for having good hardware then you better take the heat when you sell garbage.

[Scooter @ Sep 15th 2007 1:33PM]

any company that charges a premium and trumpets superior design and features will naturally be subject to stronger scrutiny - and have further to fall, if it gets it wrong

[bhaal @ Sep 15th 2007 2:09PM]

Ah the mythical Apple premium rears its ugly head. Pity it doesn't, you know, actually exist:

Archos 605 Wifi 80GB = 399 Euros or £275

16 GB ipod touch = £269

Creative Zen Vision = £270

[Urza @ Sep 15th 2007 3:06PM]

Bhaal:

First of all, where the hell you getting those prices from? On amazon.com the Archos 605 wifi 160GB is selling the exact same price as the iPod touch 16GB. Besides, even with you prices, £6 more for no touch screen but wifi, 64GB more, DVR capabilities, 5.1 surround sound capabilities, ebook reader (PDF), build-in speakers, and a crapload of other functions the iPod doesn't have. All that is worth a hell of a lot more to me than a lousy touch screen.

[engadget#1 @ Sep 15th 2007 3:09PM]

actually it does. both the other PMP's have 5x or 2x the ammount of memory and better codec support, plus higher quality components, and not to mention better sound quality.

plus in the US:
Archos 160gb 605 wifi: $400
Ipod Touch 16gb: $400

archos has higher screen resolution (800x400 vs 480x320) more codecs and a non-crappy screen, plus 10 times the storage for teh same price.


and you say that there is no "apple premium" it sure looks to me like i could get a tremendously better PMP for the same price

[engadget#1 @ Sep 15th 2007 3:14PM]

@Urza

the 605 wifi does infact have a touch screen, thus making it better.

[just a resident cynic @ Sep 15th 2007 4:52PM]

Apple court PR and attention like no other company with regards to their products, its a natural and perhaps fitting response that what they put out should thus be subject to that same level of focus & attention;

if you live by the sword, you die by it

[demented_pants @ Sep 15th 2007 11:27PM]

Dude, you shouldn't buy anything by ANY manufacturer first-gen, apple or otherwise unless you absolutely HAVE to be able to say "I GOT IT BEFORE YOU DID LOLOL"... and face it, if you HAVE to do that, then you need to find your jollies someplace else.

[Aob9 @ Sep 16th 2007 1:00PM]

Are you related to Steve Jobs? If there is a fault with the product it should be passed around. Plus, Apple devices are unique. They can have limitations that are literally ignored by reviewers in the media....because it's from APPLE. Example....crap internet connection speed on the iphone = ignored in favour 'innovative' product........?????????

[Patrick @ Sep 15th 2007 12:18PM]

So when the Apple-fanatics-cult jump all over MS for all their wrongs what do they say about stuff like this? Apple is no better or worse than most companies. They're all in it for the money and will screw customers if they think they can get away with it. That's the way capitalism works.

[bruckwine @ Sep 15th 2007 4:16PM]

You tell 'em - Apple used to be little bro, but they've grown up and are as bad as MSFT, etc. I hear that disk mode doesn't even work on the Touch either (one review said that - here or gizmodo) - is that true?! if so I think I'll skip..all that space for only music is a waste off money! Though it was only ONE review....The new Creative Zen looks like the best PMP/dollar atm.

[engadget#1 @ Sep 15th 2007 12:26PM]

wow, it seems like apple is getting horrific in their quality, which is why i am glad i didnt get one.

people always jump to its defense, but once again Jobs lied and screwed over the customers.

at least 19/20 other PMP companies dont do this

[illingist trooper @ Sep 17th 2007 3:27PM]

Actually, this is not the way the device is supposed to look, so no, Apple isn't screwing over customers yet, I'm sure those with problems will be addressed quickly by Apple... You haters are so boring

[Cloudane @ Sep 15th 2007 12:29PM]

This makes choosing between the iPhone and iPod touch a lot easier.

All I ever expected (and wanted) the iPod touch to be is a iPhone without the phone but as the iPod touch launch date nears, it seems that most reports and hands-on opinions from customers and websites alike is sounding more downbeat as each passing day come and go.

I am certainly going to wait until the 28th September then make my mind up then.

It is a bit of a shame that the iPod touch isn't living up to our (high) expectations at the moment.

[Prairie @ Sep 15th 2007 12:39PM]

What the hell are you talking about?

A limited number of users are talking about the negative screen effect, a few people have complaints about the "add" function of the calendar and some people care that it doesn't have bluetooth.

Aside from that, what the hell are you talking about?

[John Doe @ Sep 15th 2007 2:29PM]

Get bent fanboi.

[Jeph @ Sep 15th 2007 12:39PM]

I've read a few places that people have been complaining about the picture quality. I dont know if only some touches are affected but I picked up my 16gig touch yesterday, and it looks as good if not better than what i've seen from the iphone. Granted I haven't tested them side by side, but i've watched a few movies/shows on it and the black levels look fine.

As for sound quality, most of the complaints are most likely coming because of the crap headphones apple always bundles, pick up a pair of shure's and it's not a problem..

[Dias @ Sep 15th 2007 12:45PM]

Here you are:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=355025

[Khris @ Sep 15th 2007 2:41PM]

@ Dias

How many times do you need to post this link?

I think it's time to up your OCD meds!

[Juaquin @ Sep 15th 2007 4:50PM]

If you read any of those links, people were testing with Shure E4C or similar headphones, not the crappy Apple buds, and the Touch still sounded worse. Is this also true of the iPhone? I hope they fix the audio quality when they release a 16GB 3G-enabled version.

[Cycomachead @ Sep 15th 2007 12:43PM]

So it could be the same screen. If people are getting them swapped out at the Apple stores and the second unit isn't having problems, the it says that there is most likely a bad batch of LCDs along the lines. LCDs are hard products to manufacture-especially if you're going for color accuracy.

Hey if I had a defective product and it was replaced as easily as the posts makes it sound I'd be pretty happy.

[alastarwaterwolf @ Sep 15th 2007 1:07PM]

I have an iPod touch and I like it alot. I haven't really noticed anything wrong with blacks except for maybe when I watch a video, otherwise everything is fine. In fact, i am writing this post on my ipod touch!

[anthone @ Sep 15th 2007 12:50PM]

the fact that you cant extend the space by providing us a micro/mini sd is already considered a flaw. there are better mp3 players/pda phones out there that are not on total lockdown. meaning you cant add or costumize your toys. its the way apple sells and market their products. it makes us all wanna eat all that apple up and pay $$$ for a piece of their hardware. its all hype and we are all caught in it.
Ive personally never had an Ipod ever. But with the ipod touch, I am more tempted than ever to grab one.

[Kaden @ Sep 15th 2007 12:55PM]

`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.· OHHHH the irony!!!! Of all computer companies out there, Apple, the supposed "shiznit for graphics and videos" can't do color right??

[tvl @ Sep 15th 2007 1:02PM]

Dear Engadget,

I like Apple’s products, but I am started to get a little sick of your i(Phone,Pod…) coverage. Please tell us more about some other great products we don't know about.

Thank you.

[everrette powell @ Sep 15th 2007 1:10PM]

dear tvl,

shut up

[Dan Ross @ Sep 15th 2007 2:05PM]

Hear, Hear. Why don't you just go the whole hog and rename the site to Enapple, or given the position Engadget occupies worshipping all things Apple, In-Apple???

I assume there are other companies producing tech that will recieve equal levels of coverage from yourselves as a 16GB touch screen PMP is getting?

[Andrew @ Sep 15th 2007 3:58PM]

Well seeing as how I hopped on the other day, and the top five breaking news was all apple and 3/5 of the breaking news was... guess, go on, guess...

apple. I'm also getting sick of it. why isnt there an applefanboy site and get rid of this crap(ple) from Engadget. I didn't mind apple much before, but this is downright absurd.

[wetworker @ Sep 15th 2007 3:04PM]

I think they are owned by apple. The amount of coverage they do on apple products is ridiculous, same as gizmodo

i've never seen a complete walk through of the lg prada inteface, i wonder why,manybe because it came out b4 the iphone and the apple heads told them to not report on it.

i thing i've seen every inch of the iphone/itouch