In the latest scheme to make it just a little easier for you to part with your money, Visa has begun rolling out its Micro Tag key fobs for contactless (and if under $25, signature-less) payments. The issuer-customizable Tags are based on Visa's payWave technology -- an RFID system similar to
MasterCard's PayPass -- and are meant to act as companions to existing credit and debit cards. To commemorate the launch, Visa passed out 1,000 Tags pre-loaded with $15 at yesterday's San Francisco Giants game at AT&T Park, encouraging fans to purchase the fatty stadium concessions that could perhaps lull them into the false notion that this is a
completely secure payment method.
[Via
Geekzone]
posted Sep 28th 2007 12:35AM
With the way everyone leaves their keys just sitting out in the open, I smell shopping spree for petty thieves (and maybe the means of transportation to get the loot home).
well. copying rfid actually takes more than just a camera.
"well. copying rfid actually takes more than just a camera."
Exactly, with this you don't even need line of sight! Advantage: thieves.
$15? That's like a whole drink at ballpark prices!
I have a SpeedPass on my keychain. It is really handy but I wouldn't trust the technology on something potentially so universal.
I would only use this if it required a pin for every purchase. I dont want my keys to become a target for theft, then I'll be without a ride home AND without any money.
I'd rather have someone steal my keys than my wallet. I don't see how this fob is any less secure your wallet.
Besides, are you scared of people stealing your keys to steal your car?
[No. It's petty thieves. They wouldn't steal a car.]
What about the cds in your car?
[I have an ipod.]
How about the car battery then?
[Now you're being silly.]
You are too.
Theres not much point in stealing keys unless you have a remote alarm system and can find the car in a parking lot by sound. Stealing a set of generic Toyota keys isnt going to do the thief much good when theres about 75 Toyotas to choose from. Adding this thing to your keychain would just give people a reason to steal them instead of turning them into lost and found since its basically like finding a $20 bill attached to a set of keys.
Its not less secure than your wallet but instead of 1 thing that can get stolen you now have 2 things that can get stolen, doubling your risk.
"I don't see how this fob is any less secure your wallet."
If your wallet is stolen, something is physically taken from you. If your RFID card is read and impersonated, you won't have any idea until you get the bill 30 days later.
Trenton
I'm pretty sure any point you were trying to make was disproved by yourself. I don't think you even made a point. Yes, having RFID on your keys is less secure than a card in your wallet. Do you even know how RFID works?
I still don't understand why everyone is stuck on rfid, it is so dangerous, the fact that it is in passports now scares the shit outta me, that someone can steal my passport information without even touching the book? not to mention if everyone has a master card with pay pass, it must be a cinch to pick up rfid numbers in a place with close proximity like a bus or subway. man, if i had a choice to use rfid or not, i would opt out!
The passport thing is kinda scary, but there are lead or zinc lined (can't remember) passport sleves for the security conscious amongst us.
BTW, loosing ones keys now REALLY sucks.
also, im assuming you dont bring your passport with you everywhere? hopefully...
i do when i go through customs, oh wait, that is usually packed, hmm, seems like the perfect place to do rfid sniffing to me
When in a foreign country I always carry it on me (or equivalent ID). It's a requirement in some countries, no?
I disagree here. I don't know why people are so scared of this. This is nothing like passport RFID tags. Not even remotely close.
You're scared that someone will make a purchase of a Twinkee and Diet Coke at the 7-11? All the while I am laughing at your paranoia as I use the product as intended -- convenience!
If anyone knows an issuer that is using these, I'd love to know!!
yeah this assumes only minimarts and gas stations use it, but you know it is going to move to the mainstream such as how the credit card used to go from being essentially carbon copied to magnetic swipe. and you may need a signature for larger purchases, but these days how often do you actually give the clerk your card? not often considering they are all self swipe now, i don't think anyone has ever checked my signature before.
I'm not saying that my example purchase is due to the limit -- I'm saying that's all they're DO with it! You only hear of big-money scams happening in Asia. Such as the time two waiters took a patron's card next door to buy $500 worth of cell phones. The man's bank called him and alerted him, who told the management. Case closed, no harm done to the man. The most you'll get here is some guy buying some munchies.
The signature also doesn't matter. As a former liquor store and pool-and-spa store employee I can tell you that the signature doesn't matter when it comes to fraud. 'See ID' doesn't help you either, unless that IS your signature!
I can't wait until this kind of thing is everywhere.
The trick is that someone could easily ding the crap out of my bank account very quickly with those $25 purchases and, when you get devices like this, you are agreeing to honour the unsigned purchase.
Where are you? Outside America (Japan, for one) you can use 7-11 to buy stuff online- use the in-store terminal (or the online site, 7dream.com ) to select what you want, and it'll be delivered to the store where you then pay by cash/cellphone/whatever. Twinkie and Diet coke? More like a Wii and some games, or a new Walkman.
And security issues? Japan has it right with the cellphone RFID- the phone has an "IC card lock" which allows you to lock the RFID chip with a PIN before it will communicate, and a long-distance lock which lets you lock it remotely if you lose the phone.
Asha Kydd, please point me to the company offering these that doesn't offer some kind of buyer protection. I'll wait.
Jamar, thank you! Honestly folks, it's not like this is a completely new concept to the world. It's a new concept to paranoid Americans.
let the hacking begin!
lol
I have been using Mastercard Paypass keychains for several years now. It is great when you find somewhere to actually use them.
It's nice not having to pull out my wallet, and just wave this thing across the reader.
Anyone know where I can find some kind of RFID reader, and microcontroler PCB layout and price list?
I...erm...need to, uhm...Make copies of RFID cards I use in to access my house...yeah, that's it...
RFID is hardly secure, and I wouldn't trust this unless I knew that they spent the time and money on the security (which I doubt).
This is so true. I can't wait for this to be all over the news, the thing is you know it will just slip away and the scams will continue.
I'm presently arranging to purchase a whole bunch of RFID equipment for a test at work. It is actually surprisingly easy to get a hold of and relatively inexpensive. ANYONE could actually just call them up and buy it. There isn't any real regulation.
Why would there be?
Anyone that is security conscious uses Smart Cards (I know an RFID is technically a smart card...), I use contact smart cards for even more.
The fact that this can only be used for payments under $25 means it doesn't really have to be that secure. RFID should be fine.
How many smart thieves are there that would spend the time and money to hack into your RFID just to get $25?
I'm a bit confused. This seems like it's just calling out for someone to steal your credit information. That's nuts. I'm happy with the card in my wallet.
Karim Baz
What about people buying things because it's easier and seems less like actual money?
Why not have a fingerprint reader on the keyring, so when someone steals this I won't get raped by credit card bills?
In the US, cardholders are liable only for the first $50 of charges made on a lost or stolen card. Most banks reduce that to $0.
I can't believe I am up this late. College papers suck. Oh yeah, this thing is pretty cool, but I can see this getting hacked somehow.
I love how they made the thing blue and shaped like a water drop. Something to remind you have liquid your cash really is.
Personnally I would not use this. I at least need the annoyance of having to pull out my card and sign/PIN the dohiggy to keep me from spending all my money. I mean I don't keep all my money to really prevent from spending all my money, but it is nice to see I actually have money in my account on my monthly statement.
I have no problem in principle with this as it is only a small amount of cash that is loaded on it. But I do have a problem with the possibility of criminals developing readers to simply take your cash of it as you pass by.
No cash is 'loaded' on it. It is linked to your CC or debit account. The preloaded cash was just a promotion at the ballpark.
In which case this seems like a great opportunity for criminals with scanners wiping out our accounts by simply walking around busy public places!
For low tech minded folks, i.e. most criminals... This is the whip. How easy is it to grab someone's keys from them on the street or even pickpocket them. Atleast with a atm/debit you have to enter a valid pin that would require shoulder surfing and or relation to the victim. This is clearly aimed at kids also with it's nice industrial designed exterior. Kid gets a new car, mom and pop get them a visa keyring with prepaid dollar amounts. Just another attempt at invading your income from the clever ad execs at visa.
In London at the moment all the tube stations and rail connections have these cashless ads. For Oyster, Credit and Cashless combinations. It's RFID Oyster which means now the government not only knows which tube you're catching but probably what croissant and coffee combo you like so when they question you they can sweeten you up with a Pret Cappo and a Pain au Chocolat.
Dirty. This sucks, we have no choice. Lay down and die for your un-elected fake governments, if you need me I'll be in room 101.
I don't think my brain was in traction that early in the morning and didn't make my point clear.
A RFID fob on your keychain is an easy to spot target. People who would never think of leaving their iPods unattended in public do that all the time with their keys. All someone would need to do is take your keys and use it for some easy shopping. Granted the limit is $25 but those charges add up fast. No ID required. At least with a plastic card, some clerks will ask for proof of identity. Case and point, I have a friend that is mixed Japanese and Irish. She looks very asian but has a Irish surname. She is often asked for her drivers license when checking out. Far from being offended, she always thanks the person for asking.
well, wouldn't the tag show a name as well?
it's just another place for the number to come from, and can't be photoed 100m away and used on the internet like a normal visa..
But what is so convenient? that's the part I don't get. You mean waving a keychain is somehow more convenient than pulling a card out of your pocket or wallet? (females with Grand Canyon capacity purses the exception). That's ridiculous and incredibly lazy if you ask me. I have a checkcard with PayPass and 1. Can't find a damn place that uses it, 2. When I do find a place that can, it never works right, or 3. It never works right because the cashiers have no clue how it works. So what is supposed to be convenient, ends up wasting more of my time. Also, the article states it would require a signature for purchases over $25... ok, but then you need to verify the signature, meaning you're gonna have to pull something out of your wallet anyway (ok, nevermind that most cashiers don't really bother checking). So now you're carrying extra junk in your pocket so you can pay for a Slurpee 4.7 seconds faster than before. I really don't get it.
I'm a big opponent of RFID for credit transactions. I say let the hackfest begin. But I digress, with these FOBs how exactly does one verify a signature? Does it have a tiny box on the flip side of it where you scribble your name with the help of a magnifying glass? Does it have your name on the back? How do they verify the fob belongs to you for larger transactions?
As an aside. In many cases unless you have terrible hand eye coordination I find using RFID rather than swipe is actually slower. I've thought about taking some vid and comparing the speed but I haven't gotten that motivated yet.
So what is this good for? Vending machines that don't exist? McDonalds?
I can't even fill my tiny gas tank for under 30 bucks. CC had their signitureless limit lifted to $100 a long time ago.
Ryan
The fact that the RFID items can be set to only transmit the information up to 4 inches can help. The person attempting to read the info from the RFID would have to be touching you pretty much to get any info from you and he would have to know you have one.
Sheez, I hate fumbling for my keys just to open my doors, now you want me to fumble around to pay for my soda???? Umm,, no...
I was worry about this technology using on credit card. But MasterCard sent me a card with PayPass on it. I have to admitted it's pretty handy. Since I am not liable for all unauthorized charge, I think it's not a bad idea using it. However, I disagree use RFID on US passport as it contains too many sensitive information.
I have a Check Card from my bank in the Midwest. They issue MasterCards with PayPass. To be honest, the only places that I ever used in the Midwest were Meijer, CVS and McDonald's.
On the West Coast, the only place I have been to that uses the readers for PayPass, ExpressPay (AmEx) or PayWave is RiteAid pharmacy. I think Walgreen's has it in California, too, but I rarely shop there. CVS is in California, but not as widespread as I would like. The only other place I have used my PayPass is at McDonald's where I tap and don't push any buttons to select "debit" or "credit," which is actually sort of nice. At RiteAid, however, I often have to do it twice.
And if this technology is anything like the PayPass one, then it will allow purchases over $25 anyway. Mine certainly did when I paid for prescriptions at CVS totaling up to $55+...no signature required.
I love the idea of contactless payment, and if identity theft is already so prevalent in more old fashioned forms such as opening mail and sniffing through people's garbage, I don't feel anymore unsafe, to be honest. I like the idea I can give a family member my card to go run some quick errands for me if they don't have cash...