While we've seen Consumer Reports take a
gander at a
number of
HDTVs before, it's been a tick (or maybe "forever" is more fitting) since it's seen "the best flat screen ever tested." Believe it or not, Panasonic's 50-inch
TH-50PZ700U plasma was actually the recipient of such sensational praise, and such luxuries as the 1080p resolution (oooh) and its ability to "reproduce the finest details, rich vibrant colors and deep blacks" (aaah) apparently set it
way ahead of
the pack. Additionally, the screen was so impressive that reviewers actually stated that it "lent an almost three-dimensional look to images," which we figured was only possible with a pair of truly gaudy glasses. Welp, guess we all know which HDTV you're getting next, eh?
posted Oct 2nd 2007 10:17AM
Not I. Although the Panny plasma was initially tops on my list, I enjoy gaming and some sports too much to risk image retention. I know permanent burn-in is no longer a factor with the new plamas, but from what I've read on HDTV forums, this plasma still needs to be treated with too much TLC. So, I'm going the LCD route, with either the Samsung 5271 or Sony 52"XBR4.
I like Consumer Reports, and often consult their reviews. However, I think that the type of tv one buys depends on the purpose. That said, I thing the CR reviews are too generalized, imho.
Sammy is the way to go! Top products at great prices. Panasonic... meh.
I love my Sammy 4665f, nice TV. But I hear those Pioneer Kuro's are rated the best, at least a few hours ago they were (per engadget blog).
Breaking a plasma in for the first 100 hours is too much tlc? I'm willing to do that to get the best picture quality for the money. The only comparable tv is the pioneer elite, but thats out of my price range.
I picked up a 50PZ700U in August - I started the break-in DVD for about 20 hours, then just got lazy.
Since then, I've been playing games (up to 5 hours at a time), movies, tv, and there has yet to be any burn-in. period. Sofar, I have no complaints. I was worried at first about picking up a plasma, but now I don't worry about it at all. I just make sure not to leave any image paused on the screen for long periods of time.
try the samsung 5281! awesome LED's :-D
panny's and pioneers > sammy's by a million. i dont know what weed youre all smoking but samsung is near the bottom of the pile.
71 samsung is amazing. id stick with that one over the panasonic anyday. that panasonic is pretty good also but the xbr 4 and 71s are just too amazing to ignore.
I got the XBR4 over the Sammy. I checked it out in several higher end places to a man everyone recommended the Sony over the Sammy. While the Sammy has a great picture, the Sony seems to be a better overall set.
After using it for a couple of weeks. I love the set. I also got a playstation 3 for Blue-Ray and DVD upscaling and everything works beautifully together.
In the end, either way you go you won't be sorry, just be aware that the XBR4 will work better in a light room with lots of reflections as the Sammy fronts are all glass.
-Roger
I game on my Panny plasma for hours on end and have no image retention at all. If you actually care about picture quality then this is a spectacular TV.
Yeah, not even close. There are far better alternatives than this.
In the plasma category, the pioneers pretty much produce the best picture hands down..
If you want a better picture than that, go with a Sony SXRD or the LCDs the above poster mentioned.
Kuro > SXRD
sharp is the way to go for blacks in lcd's (better than sony, definitely better than samsung), but plasma (in dark rooms without glare) are the best if that is important to you)
Midrange Plasma > All LCD's
I thought that the Sharp Aquos series of LCD's had the best black levels, and color reproduction?
If you thought an LCD had the best black levels, you might as well give up now
Sharp TVs are full of Problems!! The best LCD ever made is the samsung 4665F!!!
Sorry, I should have been more clear, of all LCD's. Hell, I don't know. I gave up looking for a good TV a long time ago.
Great! I'll be ready to buy in about a year - in which they will be even cheaper & bigger!
I am anticipatiing that my $2500 is going to get me quite a bit of TeeVee! One that would have cost 25,000 only five or six years ago.
dude its a cycle, and every year youre going to be saying the same thing.
any word on price ?
yavin, meet froogle. froogle, yavin...
Not really a surprise, Panasonic have produced arguably the best plasma TVs for many years, and plasma is accepted as the best picture available.
best according to who? Cnet, consumer reports? Ask any REAL AV mag/enthusiast, professional and see what they say. Good, sure. Great value, yea ok. Best? I have to say NO.
Best to me is a measure of quality regardless of price. Fujitsu, Pioneer and other use much better scaling just for one. Panny cheaps out and uses either there own or an off the shelf "good enough" chipset.
Again, you get what you pay for. Don't be fooled by smoke and mirrors.
O.k., Mr Evan (don't be fooled by smoke and mirrors). Obviously you have been fooled (don't believe what you always read!). Fujitsu is Panasonic. Panasonic provides plasmas to fujitsu, toshiba and many other. Fujitsu only makes a 42 inch they can call their own. Panasonic makes their own plasmas... Pioneer is good and has bought NEC to add to their line up. all new 50+ Pioneer plasmas are NEC. Nny thing 1280 resolution and below is Pioneer, anything 1365 is an actual NEC. It is a confusing world, but in reality their are only two OEM companies Panasonic and Pioneer/NEC, luckily for Pioneer NEC came along and gave them help with a better plasma! all other manufactures make maybe one piece of their tv's, from maybe the glass to the processor...etc. Let's just say it is called Name badging for all others..
While Panasonic plasmas have been well regarded for the past few years, i don't think they come close to the picture you get from a pioneer or fujitsu plasma. just one man's opinion of course...
Slickdeals.net had a deal posted for $1,800 free shipping and no sales tax (except NJ). Um, I got on that deal!
http://slickdeals.net/?permadeal=10304#direct_deal_10304
No longer a deal, with the 20% discount the price is $2400 not $1800
uhm, have they seen Pioneer Kuros yet?
Wow. You guys sure give a lot of thought to the TV, don't you? Shame on you. Really. Nobody worthwhile is in anyway impressed by the staggering quality of your TV picture. Most people just shake their heads.
Why are you here?
Olevia is the way to go.
Oh by the way Olevia was the rated number one in LCDs (Consumer reports) ahead of Sony, Samsung, and Toshiba. The offer superior picture at prices $100-$200 below the competitor's similar offerings.
that shows why consumer reports is mediocre..
the olevia sets are in no way superior to any of the higher end samsung LCDs (eg 5271f with its awesome 25,000:1 cr)
CHEAP HO!
youre still stuck in 2005 huh?
I have the 42" version of this television and it is a great set (1080p). I am sure that the Pioneer Elite tv's are much better, but I dont have the extra funds. Also, I have 2 co workers that have a 42" Samsung plasma and both have had nothing but problems, and Sammy's tech support has been awful. One of the co-workers has actually had his warranty voided, they are claiming burn in and it only happened after they sent a tech out and "adjusted" it.
Or you can get a SED-TV and have a contrast resolution like you have never seen before...
Just saying...
Yeah we should all buy SEDs. Ummm... where do I buy one? Oh yeah, they don't make them yet (or ever).
olivia wow you defenitly need some information might as well go with a westinghouse if you want the top cheap quality.olivia doesn't even rate.
you want the best that would be either sony or samsung as samsung uses sony components(corporate deal) they tend to be 200 to 500 cheaper than sony for the same quality . they also beat the competition when it comes to fast pace gaming , and sports lcds .
i still would not recommend plasmas for gaming as they are still not up to par for fast paced FPS.
my 2 cents
Actually, it's Sony who uses Samsung's panels through a corporate deal, not Samsung who's using the Sony components.
So, in essence, Sony takes Samsung's parts, slap on the Sony label, and sell it at a couple hundred dollars premium.
That's why I always think it's so foolish to purchase Sony LCDs. Just buy Samsung at a better price.
Not true. The Sony Samsung plant is a joint operation but they make all of the panels in seperate sides of the factory. One side makes smaller panels and the other side makes larger ones. They then go into manufacturing with completely different panels, video processors etc.
The panel is only one part of the total package. In the end Sony and Samsung TV's are as different as Sansung and Sharp.
It would seem apparent that CR hasn't looked at the Kuro sets yet, but if price is a factor, they could still consider it "best."
Incidentally, this is the set I convinced my Dad to buy. This news should quell any remaining buyer's remorse. I think he largely forgot about the cost after watching "Planet Earth" on this gorgeous television.
Sorry, but the Pioneer Kuro's are the tops in the Plasma category. I trust Thomas Norton when it comes to displays and his review of the 50-inch Kuro that was posted last week has me sold. I was waiting for the new Sony SXRD XBR5 60-inch but that model has been cancelled and the 70-inch is delayed until the spring.
Read Norton's review of the Kuro, I will have one of these babies by Christmas. ;)
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/907piokuro/
That was kinda my point...
What about the new 56" to 61" Samsung LED DLP's? How do they rate? I will be buying a new TV in a few months and thinking at least 50" if not bigger. I was really thinking of the Samsung HL-T6189S. I've been told that Plasma and LCD are better, but I'd really like a big screen to go with surround sound system and get the full movie experience.
Plasmas consume too much power. Not environmentally friendly.
Personally, I like Sharp Aquos LCDs.
If you like style (and higher prices) go for the XBR4.
To be honest, I currently own a Sony and will most likely go Samsung or Pioneer. I have had several Sony product fail on me in the past and always feel like I pay a premium.
That's a fallacy and not true. I saw a test posted somewhere in the past week that some plasmas are inline with LCD's and some use less power.
Panasonic TH-50PZ700U:
"Power consumption: 695 watts"
Interestingly enough I have 44 light bulbs in my house (I know this because I replaced every one of them last year). Each is a 12 watt CFL:
44 * 12 = 528 Watts
If I turn on every light in my house simultaneously, the Panasonic TH-50PZ700U still exceeds that by 167 watts.
In contrast, my 46" Sharp Aquos uses 285 watts.
Keep in mind that lcd's backlight is always on, while Plasma's can use less power when the screen in showing something dark.
Bottom line both Plasmas and LCDs can be Energy Star rated.
I think that the point about LCDs using less power is exagerated because up until this point the majority of LCDs were smaller then the majority of Plasmas. Also, I would say that the larger the LCD then the large the backlight and therefore more power useage.
And consumer reports is useless for TV reviews, and I am very disappointed in the most recent article. Who does there research? It is just filled with bad or missing info. Also, like cars things in the TV world change every year. But every year CR rate's the Panasonics top. I mean they really have had too much of the Panny Koolaid. They are nice, but there is no doubt there are better Plasmas. If Panasonic is best and mid priced then Pioneer, Fujitsu, and Runco would be out of business fairly quickly and that is not happening. I think it is insane that the "best compromise or best value" get the top ratings. What about build quality, brand reputation, reliability? Panasonic has had a bumpy road when it comes to reliability.
Bottom line, buyer beware. Buy from a place you trust. If you buy online from some fly by night, best deal out there site, remember you get what you pay for. Good luck to all. And yes I do sell electronics for a living in a retail store if you think I am being biased.
@Evan
Energy Star compliance for TVs only mean one thing = "they save energy when they are turned off."
http://tinyurl.com/yvkmz5
Since plasma TVs already are limiting their power usage as evidenced by their relatively low full-on/full-off contrast ratios (albeit compared to the more real world 100-IRE window performance), the basic principles of plasma TVs restrict how low plasma's power consumption can go before the picture becomes too dim for practical use or won't properly operate at all.
I agree that CR is pretty poor as a resource for comprehensive reviews of electronic gear, they do reflect the average consumer's views of what's considered good. If a TV has a substantially lower price, even though it performs poorer than others compared, it will be deemed the 'winner'. Brand names hold weight since they have a track record for reliability and are more likely to be around to provide support (historically, Panasonic has a better than average repair rate (less problems) than the competition). And esoteric brands like Runco, with their small target market won't even be on their radar.
If performance was the only factor in people's buying decisions, we wouldn't have the Walmart special $30 DVD player. Admittedly, some of these lower-tier brands can produce decent stuff, and properly set up and calibrated can go head to head with the big guys, the average consumer won't go through the whole rigmarole or cannot be bothered to. And I remember many "value" consumer electronics companies fall by the wayside in past years.
Look at DisplaySearch's latest report on plasma market share (Aug. 2007): http://www.displaysearch.com/press/index.html?id=1554 Panasonic must be doing something right to maintain the top spot in PDP.
I recognize probably no one cares, but I just got the 42" version last week to replace my Westinghouse 42w2. For a TV which only cost me $50 more than the Westinghouse did when I got it, this set is incredible. Sure, the Pioneers and Hitachis are better, but not $1000+ better, at least in my book. This is the best TV (note, TV...not monitor) I have seen in person, yet.
everyone that jocks the samsung tvs are brainwashed by the NFL.
LMAO, I used to work at Sears Electronics and I can't tell you how many times I've seen that NFL loop.
Oh, and btw folks, if you guys decide to buy plasma and watch alot of 4:3 programming, plasma might not be the best choice. The black bars on the side will eventually get brighter because they aren't being worn down will the center will be dimmer because the phosphors are being used.
IMHO, I don't think its possible to completely get rid of the risk of burn in. When I sold them I said that the problems are all pretty much gone but why I'd see after images in a lot of the screens, especially when your stuck on a DVD menu for a few hours.
I broke down an purchased a Pioneer PRO-110FD Plasma and I have to admit it's bad ass. I broke mine in because I'd have a heart attack if some image burnt on the screen. So far so good though, I do like most people do, just don't leave stagnant images on the screen. Halo 3 is completely infawkinsane on this set I must say btw.. Personally, I'd recommend this TV to anyone who loves an insane picture, lots of features, and tons of inputs. HDMI rocks. But yea, buy one, you won't be disappointed, if you are Ryan of Engadget will buy you a new TV. Can't beat that!
No they didn't review a Kuro, and the Panasonic is the best right after the Kuro.
Actually, the PDP-5080HD is in the Pioneer Kuro line. Personally, I would either pay $1200 less for the TH-50PX75U (768p) which has a 10,000:1 contrast ratio versus the 5000:1 contrast ratio of the TH-50PZ700U (1080p), or I would pay $200 more for the 768p Kuro which can best be described by the following lines from Spinal Tap:
Tufnel: "It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black."
TH-50PZ700U $2900 81.
5 5 5 4 4 3 50 1920x1080
Panasonic TH-50PX75U $1700 78.
5 5 5 4 4 3 50 1366x768
Samsung HP-T5064 $1600 76.
5 5 5 4 3 5 50 1366x768
Pioneer PDP-5080HD $3200 73.
4 4 5 4 3 3 50 1366x768
HD picture/DVD picture/SD picture/Sound quality/Remote/On screen menu
I'd take the Pioneer Kuro 508XD 720p over the Pannie PZ500 1080p any day purely for the blacks and colour reproduction.
On a 50" TV cant tell between 720 and 1080 unless you sit within 2m of the TV
There's no comparison in picture quality between these and the Kuro's. The Pioneer win hands down. Consumer reports actually rate the picture quality of HD programming to be better on the Panny's than the Pioneer's. They also rate the Samsung plasma's higher than the Pioneer's. If you compare the black on these sets the Panny's and the Samsungs look grey. The contrast and color are far and away better on the Kuro line.
Now if we are talking value, the Panny's are pretty good.
Actually plasmas all have a serious issue, and that is whites. I haven't seen the Pioneer elites, but the other kuros (XX80 and XX10) had whites that were worse than panasonics (which are horrible).
By itself you don't really notice the issue, but side by side with an LCD or RPTV shows this very glaring fault. The picture is "off" in comparison. Despite the good black levels, and the good rendition of the rest of the color spectrum, the PQ IMO looks signifigantly worse. Of course, this is subjective, but I think most people who say how plasma is the best technology are simply just going along with the "hype".
If you put all 4 types of sets side by side, in a proper viewing environment, you will see things from all technologies that you don't like. Which one is "best" depends on the person. Still, in an apples to apples comparison I'd be hesitant to say that the plasmas have a real edge. If anything, I'd say the current top of the line LCDs (sony xbr4 and samsung 71) are leagues ahead of the plasmas in terms of PQ. The LCoS projectors would come in second, and pioneer plasmas a close third.
Look its very clear to everyone that the Panasonic 700 is one the best pictures for the size and price. I work at CC and to be honest ever since these reviews have come out there has been a surge of people looking at this set. It's not just consumer report giving this set such high marks.
Everyone who keeps trash talking the LCDs are right in a way but not. The colors produced by a Plasma far exceed LCDs BUT how many colors can you really see? Yeah gradients are huge but goto any retail store and tell me on the same feed with component cables if you can tell a huge huge difference. Chances are if the LCD is calibrated and so is the Plasma its VERY Similar.
As far as everyone bringing up the 71 and XBR4. They both a great sets. I will tell you we have had issues with the 46" having problems with loud fan noises. Also if you put these sets on 120hz on High with a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD it makes it look great but terrible motion problems. As far as those two sets the 71 beats out the XBR all around. If you think i'm crazy hey go to any retail store and have them put two high def content (Blu-ray or HDTV) and look at them next to each other. The XBR will give you a great picture but the blacks don't get as dark as the Samsung. Not to mention the screen on the Sammy makes the picture look completely 3D especially on Animation. Put the 71 on a Blu-Ray like Ice Age or TMNT and you won't believe it. Ever since we put that in the front of the store people crowd around the set because they can't believe how 3D it looks. The XBR just doesn't have that wow effect like the 71.
Actually Tony you have old/and or wrong info.
Fujitsu was the first to make plasma. They do buy Matsushita/Panasonic glass, but that is the only shared part. The electronics in a Fujitsu are not the same as a Panasonic and it shows. Look at non HD content on a set that uses cheap processing and there is a real, noticeable, must be blind if you can't see it difference. This also translates to HD performance, but it is easier to see where these TVs go wrong when you give them something difficult to work with.
Panasonic knows how to do things right. Look at reviews of some of there past DVD players on hometheaterhifi. They were top rated. Then someone decided that they could make more money selling worse performing players and they have not got a good rating in years.
The other thing that scares me about Panasonic is that they have bad business practices with a lot of people who carry there products. They don't seem to care about supporting there products properly. The attitude seems to be we are Panasonic we are sold everywhere, and we will win buy selling the most quantity.
I don't have a problem with people liking there sets. In fact if you want to buy and HDTV from Vizio, Poloroid, Initial, or anyone else that is for you to decide. I simply disagree with reviews that declare something I know to be mediocre the best. Most people never even see the top sets out there because everyone thinks buying a TV on the internet is the greatest thing in the world.
Other companies share panels too. Samsung/Sony share LCD panels and were at least joint on the plant, although Samsung looks to be going solo on the next plant. Sony's processing is generally better than Samsung's. But not a huge difference. People complained about over processing on Samsung's in the past but most of this you can turn off now thankfully. LG/PHilips also made LCDs together.
There are other plasma OEMs for the glass. In the past you had about 7. Including partnerships with Hitachi and Fujistsu. Samsung and LG both make there own. So that is at least 5 currents OEMs for plasma. A lot of times older panels are sold as new buy people like when Gateway was selling plasma TVs.
Pioneer bought NEC's plasma lines/division. Pioneer was making great panels before this and they continue to. They are the only ones that do a 72Hz plasma so that they can do a 3-3 cadence. I don't know where you get the idea that NEC came along and rescued Pioneer. Pioneer was the first to sell a consumer plasma, and the first out with a 50" 1080p plasma. They also won an award from popular science for there 60" before the new Kuro 60" 1080p set came out. That's right they won with a 720p 60".
The people who want to say that LCD's are as good picture quality as plasma, I'm still on the plasma side. LCD's picture quality has improved tons and will continue to with faster panels and LED backlighting. They things I still notice even on top LCDs, are that they look bad with non-HD which is understandable, but plasmas seem to be more watchable with non-HD. Plasmas don't emphasize that it is not HD content as much somehow, it is still easy to tell but the LCDs just have a night/day difference between non-HD/and HD content. Also, the colors and fleshtones are improving on LCD but plasmas still do a slightly better job. It's not just a matter of "how many colors you can see" but more a matter of where there color points are and how close they can be made to broadcast specs. Also, on larger sizes there really is no contest. I don't think LCD's that are 52+" hold a candle to the 50+" plasmas.
I still say buy what makes you happy when you watch it. If you do go out to do research take everyones comments, but draw your own conclusions. When I buy it'll most likely be from Pioneer Elite or Fujitsu, but who knows what will be the best in the future.
I wish I had come back to post sooner. Oh well, maybe someone will get something out of it.