CSIRO throws 802.11n ratification a curve
By Darren Murph 
posted Oct 3rd 2007 11:12AM
posted Oct 3rd 2007 11:12AM
CSIRO and aggravation tend to go hand in hand, so it's no real shock to learn that the organization is playing hard ball in a recent push to get 802.11n closer to ratification. Reportedly, CSIRO "refused to provide a letter of assurance to the IEEE working group developing the much-delayed 802.11n WiFi standard," and it cited legal discord between it and Microsoft, Intel, Dell, HP, Netgear, Toshiba, Fujitsu, Nintendo and 3Com as the primary holdup. The group's senior vice-president of licensing, Denis Redfern, was quoted as saying that "where litigation is involved, CSIRO will continue to reserve its rights in relation to licensing," so it looks like an official 802.11n standard is still that far off from being founded.
I don't get it. If everyone else is on-board, screw them. Australia holding up the rest of the world? Seriously?
This begs the question:
"Who the f*** is CSIRO?"
CSIRO - kinda like DARPA in Australia, except civilian instead of military - legitimately hold patents on most of the 11n tech, and they aren't giving the stuff away.
Spenecer and Sc00byDoo: Thank you for re-inforcing my opinion of the ever-increasing pool of stupidity that is America.
Read a newspaper, or something.
I take it your not from America or an American. I haven't seen a newspaper that has reported on the 802.11 draft n spec. So not sure what you're point is.
Pfff.. Just license it for the whole world, except for Australia. If Oz's only contribution to world technology is litigation then screw them.
go for it, mate - we'll take our lovely CSIRO's 10 gigabit wireless (http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/06/australians-to-demo-10-gigabit-wireless-data-link/) over draft-n any day :)
"A federal judge ruled last week that an Australian government agency holds the rights to patents on the underlying technology used in two Wi-Fi standards and a third proposed standard."
I gotta mark this day down, AMERICANS complaining that AUSSIES are too litigious!
Came for the Aussie bashing, stayed for the stunning displays of hypocrisy...
PS: regarding "CSIRO and aggravation tend to go hand in hand", if it was a US company chasing down a variety of Australian companies refusing to pay deserved royalties, would this article have been worded the same way?
CSIRO runs technology in AU -- http://www.csiro.au/org/AboutCSIRO.html
Gazillions of dollars at stake here -- they'll eventually work it out so all the fat cats win a huger piece of the pie, and you lose.
He referred to legal action between the CSIRO and manufacturers including Microsoft, Intel, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Netgear, Toshiba, Fujitsu and Nintendo and 3Com, who are trying to invalidate the CSIRO patent. None of the companies have paid royalties for the patent, worth millions of dollars.
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Seems pretty reasonable then.
Looks like some issues are before the courts as we speak, and CSIRO is just trying to protect its own.
At least that's what it appears to be by reading the article.
You should all be blaming these companies for the hold up:
Microsoft, Intel, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Netgear, Toshiba, Fujitsu and Nintendo and 3Com who have taken the CSIRO to court to invalidate their legitimate patents on the new N technology.
The CSIRO are simply protecting their IP property. These companies are trying to steal this technology without paying for it.
Why should the CSIRO play ball when they are having their potential royalty income stolen from under them???
They need to get their marbles together and pass this certification. What they're doing impedes development of newer technology. It also causes consumer uncertainty and rightly so.
Products will be released that may or may not work with the n spec at the end, this will be hell for consumers who want it to just work.
"which draft do you have? uh. i hav no clu.... firmware update? huh?.. what revision I have?????"
you mean like how the market is now? :p
What “impedes development of newer technology” is the ripping off of intellectual property by large multinational corporations that think they can claim what they want irrespective of legality
Damn Aussies, always inventing world-changing new technologies but not sharing them with the other children in the schoolyard!
i know. cool, eh? now we get stuff you guys dont, and its something good! HA HA!
Exactly what in .11n does CSIRO own?
Is there any point in ratifying the standard now? Draft-n has become the standard whether or not IEEE wants it to or not. By the time it is ratified there will be something better.
If I read it right on Wikipedia, and to my understanding, CSIRO developed and invented the majority of the technologies behind 802.11n.
They were to provide to the IEEE a Letter of Assurance to NOT sue other companies on patent violations relating to the 802.11n standard. Because they did not provide such a letter, 802.11n cannot be ratified and standardized.
In simple layman's terms: CSIRO just wants to protect its ASS-ets.
The 802.11 standard has a theoretical hard top of 600 Mbits/sec so when they do “come up with something better” it will ALSO be based on CSIRO’s existing intellectual property. Remember the current litigation isn’t over the ”n” standard
Al Gore invented 802.11n
Who cares?
When did CSIRO suddenly matter to anyone but Australians?
To CSIRO: Go away. The rest of the world doesn't care what you think. We'll use n, thank you very much.
actually the CSIRO developed CIROFLOC (or however its spelled) which attaches itself to sewage so it can easily be removed. you want to drink shit infested water? fine, we will keep it to ourselves...
Actually, it seems that the rest of the world is trying to freely use technology developed by CSIRO without paying them for it.
You think just because CSIRO is small the big kids should snatch their toy off them. Meany!
[citation needed]
Really? Show me the article on that one. There is a long history on 802.11 drafts, workgroups and revisions for amendments to the standard. I can't find anywhere any mention of amazing Australian tech being taken and used without license. In fact, I don't see any mention of "CSIRO" specifically even being in the draft board or design task group.
Hmmm...
From what I can gather, CSIRO has been instrumental in developing large components of the 802.11x standards, with the associated investment in R&D. It seems only fair that they are entitled to a return on that investment just like any other lawsuit happy US based corporation.
getting paid for patents on technology you developed happens everyday in consumer electronics.. in this case the big hitters (Microsoft, Intel, Dell, HP, etc) have decided they don't want to pay and want make CSIRO look like arseholes..
have a look at the PC in front of you - how many patents do you think the manufactures had to license to bring it to market?
I came for the Aussie bashing, and I wasn't disappointed. I helped pay for that research through my tax dollars, and I damn well expect that my tax dollars are looked after properly.
Suck it, America.
+1
-X
Yes! I wanted to see them take hits at my country too. Sucked in, this always happens the other way round now it's everyone else's turn to put up with it. Talk about hypocrisy.
Americans: Pot. Kettle. Black.
CSIRO has lawful patents on instrumental parts of the technology. They helped develop it. They have every right to defend those patents when others refuse to pay royaltys or respect said patents.
So Microsoft isn't known for going all out in legal battles to protect it's own patents?
Nor are Intel, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Netgear, Toshiba, Fujitsu and Nintendo and 3Com to a lesser extent.
Couldn't imagine WHY someone like microsoft would be annoyed that a tactic they use so often themselves would be turned against them.
Typical pig ignorant American attitude to everything. Microsoft has built a ridiculously large dinosaur of a business based on ripping off technology from others. When it tries to add new technology itself - it fails (WINFS anyone!?). When a country like Australia invents tech the Yanks want to rip it off for free.
Well get lost! You can all pay for the development and IP instead of stealing it for a change. If America's companies weren't so damn greedy and SHARED with the rest of the world this wouldn't have happened.
In my opinion, 802.11n should be an open standard without licensing. Technology such as this is so broad that there is no way to hold complete IP anyways. There is no such thing as a global IP, it simply does not exist.
Instead of chasing after companies in order to get licensing fees, they should be thinking of ways to design the most badass radios based off 802.11n and prove to everyone that their technology reigns superior. Not only on paper, but on an actual product.
i bet you if the csiro was American all of you seppo's wouldn't be complaining about them doing this.
bunch of greedy arseholes...
For all the interested parties involved in this blog here is a copy of the letter from CSIRO to the IEEE chair.
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/public-file/07/11-07-2619-00-0000-802-11-wg-chairs-received-email-letter-response-from-csiro-regarding-loa-requests.doc
As you can see, CSIRO are trying to do the 'right' thing. It does seem that there are non-complying 'Big end of Town' businesses whom are not complying to usual business practices in licensing granted patents.
As the USA is the main driver for the Free Trade Agreements that are now predominately the norm among international traders, it is rather curious that the main driver in this instance for the invalidation of a granted, and upheld, patent is from the USA.
In short, if CSIRO loose this legal battlefield with said USA 'Big Business' representative companies attempting to litigate against the CSIRO patent, currently before the same court in Texas that upheld the CSIRO patent, then the Free Trade Agreements will for all intense purposes become invalid world wide. After all, IP Management and Rights are at the core of these Free Trade Agreements.
It seems to me that as a result of a few large selfish businesses the great strides made in legal agreements and consolidation by countries around the world to try and catch up a little with the Internet revolution will be lost. For some this is good. For others....it is Billion$ of dollars of profit.
And, aside from the facts above...the people who advocate stealing IP obviously do not create any.