Sony BMG's head lawyer says ripping CDs is "stealing"
By Nilay Patel 
posted Oct 4th 2007 9:01AM
posted Oct 4th 2007 9:01AM
There's one of them RIAA lawsuits going down in Duluth this week, and Jammie Thomas, the single mother charged with sharing 26 songs on Kazaa, isn't going down without a fight. Yesterday her attorneys called Jennifer Pariser, Sony BMG's head of litigation, to testify before the jury and got her to say some incredibly incendiary things -- not least of which was her opinion that making copies of purchased music is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy.'" That viewpoint, of course, implicates pretty much every single thing consumers do with music and computers, including transferring songs to iPods and Zunes. We're betting there might be a couple jurors on the panel who aren't too fond of Ms. Pariser right now. Might want to check yo'self before you wreck yo'self, counselor.Disclaimer: Although this post was written by an attorney, it is not meant as legal advice or analysis and should not be taken as such.
My mom still uses Sony SonicStage to rip her CDs to her computer. Seems a bit daft for Sony to claim theft when they have software out there to help aide in the process.
Different Sony divisions.
That's the issue with large companies like Sony: They don't necessarily have the wherewithal to look at another arm of the company and ask the simple question of "What do you guys think about this?"
And, of course, that lack of communication makes the company (rightfully so) look like hypocrites.
Yeah and you think Sony is going to be different with Fair use/Consumer Rights when it comes to BLU-RAY???!?!?!??
HD DVD all the way people...
Hrm, Ms. Pariser was called up by the defense for a specific reason (which she seemed to play into beautifully). Paint Sony BMG in this ludicrous light that it rightfully should be. I honestly think, though, that thanks to this little fiasco (and the damage that she's done to Sony's already ridiculous case), she's probably in deep shit back in the corp.
I mean seriously. Ripping CDs to computer is one of the very basic activities that consumers have done with their music for YEARS. There's no way in hell this is a representative viewpoint of a music branch of a major corporation. People can't be that stupid. If it is representative and they are that stupid, though, Good Riddance BMG division. The market will destroy you.
Geoffrey Sperl, I could not agree with you more. I was thinking exactly along those lines yesterday.
When the PS3 was being released last year, it had the potential to continue dominance in the videogame market. If they were sitting at the top of the sale charts now like they could have, then Bluray would be the Hi-Def format. The movie division of Sony should have gotten the videogame division to lower the PS3's price to $400.00 from the start, and they would have had a chance of being the market leader in both videogames AND movies. Instead, Playstation has floundered in last place in the market and the Hi-Def format war continues. At this point, since the Xbox360 has already dropped in price and they've now gotten a rep in the past year as not being the best choice, they actually need to drop the PS3 price to $300.00 to be able to take the lead. Instead, they're going to release a stripped down $400.00 version and maybe drop the 80GB version to $500.00. Someone needs to wake them up. The consoles may have a 10 year life cycle like they say, but if Sony wants Bluray to be the Hi-Def format of choice, they need to get people to buy the players. The PS3 has an advantage as a Bluray player in that if i buy one, even if HD-DVD wins the format war, I still have a game console. If I buy an HD-DVD player and Bluray wins, all I have is an HD-DVD player for the losing format. Risk is less with PS3, but price is too high. Drop the price to $300.00 and watch both the games and movies division take off. They won't, but they need to. Oh well.
@ Calviin ^ ^
I see your point, but what about the Playstation 2 in all of this? And PSP? Sony is not just a one trick pony.
Sony dos'nt need to drop the price. PS2 is like printing money for them right now.
Ask yourself this. How come PS2's are still selling by the bucket load? Because the mass market takes time to catch up with people like us. So when we are seeing a substantial reduction in price of the PS3 in say 2 years time, PS3's will, in theory, be flying off the shelves.
In theory.... ;)
@phil-- I think that Calvin, whom with I totally agree with, is saying that the PS3 is the perfect example of Sony's branches not talking to each other. Calvin makes a great point, and although I don't want BR to win the war, they wouldn't have had to put up much of a fight against MS's format.
Memo to Sony:
When you spend more time fighting your customers than you do your competition, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!
@ aaron, totally agreed. hd dvd managed copy (a built in hd dvd spec) was supposed to be put right into media center / media player but delayed because bluray's spec doesnt support it as a standard. not until the mpaa approves the new bluray spec will this go through. ugh i hate sony.
I think we need an "Open Songs" community sooner or later...
It's called Creative Commons; similar to GPL (or other free licenses) for software, but applying to creative works. http://creativecommons.org/ is the homepage; the Audio site is http://creativecommons.org/audio/
There is some pretty good stuff on CC already - check it out! It is completely free to do so, and to share yourself.
Funny you should say that, I have been considering starting up that very thing recently.
I have a 10 pack of Sony CD-Rs at the house right now. If this is their position, why do they sell the tools that allow us to "steal"? This reminds me of those Coke Zero ads where they try to sue the Coke brand for taste infrigement. Maybe the legal dept should sue the recordable media department...
A rootkit is a nice way of saying "fascist."
Yeah, I wonder if Sony will still admit they were being morons with the BMG ROOTKITS and all...
I'm still pissed that nobody went to jail over that. I will not buy any Sony media ever again because of what they did. It wasn't just unethical, it was criminal.
I hear that. I wonder if Sony realizes that people are deliberately downloading music off their label rather than purchasing it because of their attitude and the whole rootkit fiasco. I rip all the music I buy and I'll never buy a Sony BMG album because of the shit they might put on my PC.
"It's my personal belief that Sony BMG is half the size now as it was in 2000," she said, thanks to piracy.
Well, even if this is the case, lets look at it this way... The music industry is still growing strong and is probably much stronger than it was in 2000. Do artists make less today than they did in 2000? Probably not because they get revenue from other things such as commercials, tours, etc.
The way I look at it, the music tycoons shot themselves in the foot with their approach to music distribution. If they are half the size now and the music industry is unaffected, hell they can go down in flames because apperently economically they are not needed.
As for copying my own music from a CD... Its exactly that mentality that endorses piracy. I feel like pirating some sony music now...
Thank goodness we can get back to some good 'ol non-Apple bashing.
I've been trying to think of what Sony music I should pirate out of spite. I've been at it for about an hour, and I can't think of anything. It's a sad state of affairs when their stuff isn't even worth stealing.
@ G-park, is the new Foo Fighters CD from Sony? I know their old one was, if this one is, it's a good cd :)
It is my personal belief that half a population of cockroaches is a start.
@SteveJ
Don't say the "A" word!! ...or any of the "i" words for that matter either!!
Well I am going to say the "A" word... A$$HOLE
"Pariser suggested that what millions of music fans do is actually theft. The dirty deed? Ripping your own CDs or downloading songs you already own."
Question Mr. Pariser Einstein Sir. How can you STEAL something if you already purchase/own it? Either you need to have your head examined or your an A$$HOLE
"Countless studies have shown that the majority of music on portable music players like the iPod comes from sources other than download services."
I and everybody else out their "except for the greedy heads at BMG" didn't know if I/WE bought an iPod that I/WE "MUST" put mp3's/music for now, and later on soon to be, any type of data on and iPod/DAP/PMP/AIO/portable electronic device, etc from an *internet* corporate own download services, "if the BMG/other companies back by their lawyers get their way." Besides... what person would want to buy a CD and then come right back around and buy the same song again but this time with less quality off of the internet?
And as for the "I" word(s), I have too many to list here for BMG… Ignoramus, Incompetent, Irrational, Irresponsible, Idiots, Insensitive, etc, etc… BMG must think that we are Idiots??? Perhaps a small Insurrection at BMG will keep them busy with some REAL legal work!
@Xzavier
Thats the BS with these companies Xzavier. They don't consider you buying the CD. They consider you buying a license to listen to the CD. You don't own the music, you own the license, and you can't do anything with the music.
I call this complete BS. The biggest problem with the RIAA isn't that there is piracy. It's that they are unwilling to adapt to new technologies. Digital distribution is where it's at, and no one wants to use portable cd players anymore. You buy the music, you should be able to play it on any platform, and back it up if you want. As long as you aren't sharing it over the internet, it should be considered legal. The RIAA doesn't think so, and that is why they are losing business.
Dear Ms./Mrs. Pariser,
Kiss my ass.
Sincerely,
Rippy R. Ripster
OMG, I just STOLE Doom 3 off the install DVD.
Does that mean i stole Windows??? Microsoft are gonna sue me soon...
LOL @ Sony
As far as shooting yourself in the foot is concerned, Sony is easily the best company in the world!
"Our products are just sitting on the shelves!"
"How can this BE?"
"Maybe nobody wants them?"
"IMPOSSIBLE! It's these damned blaggo-webs and compu-tubes! We're not losing money because we have a shitty product! We're losing money because everyone's a criminal!"
ps: in your scenario, I'd sure like to "lose" their money. To them, this "loss" is making 99.9 billion dollars instead of 100 billion dollars. Man, 99.9 billion dollars is a pretty cushy "loss".
Exactly! Let's not adapt our sales and distribution to the new formats and complain that the old ones' numbers are dying down.
"What happened to our VHS sales?!?!? People must be stealing movies too...Alert the MPAA!"
Just the other day I had a nearly brand new CD ruined because I left it in my car in the Texas summer...but I guess they would like this because I'd have to buy the cd more then once, well screw. you. sony. This is why all the cd's in my car now are copies, of ONES I BOUGHT.
So Ms. Sony BMG...in the end, we will win, it's you against the world.
To echo sentiments expressed by other posters, if Sony BMG really consider the common activities of music fans to be illegal, they should start at the source: the consumer electronics divisions of their own bloody company.
It would take me a long while to list all the products their own company produces and markets that facilitate widespread "stealing"; and if they were to successfully stop these products being produced, Sony would be even deader than it already is.
I read that this girl is facing up to $3M plus charges from each 26 songs they are trying to convict her for. I feel sad for her :(
Almost every music program allows "ripping" so why wont Sony go after those corporations?
Instead, they are going after a single mother who had a sharing program on her pc who did not make a single dime off of any song she allegedly downloaded or shared???
SAD SAD SAD
So if we arnt allowed to even rip the CD, then why does sony make an mp3 walkman?? And blank CD's, and put CD burners in their laptops, and allow you to move mp3's to the playstation3, and make memory sticks which say "put music on here" and make cell phones that play mp3z, and make car stereos that play mp3 files and make underwear that sings in mp3 format??
If anyone should be complaining, it sure in hell should NOT be Sony... We buy all their extra "accessory" crap which is marked up waayyyy too much... So, if we arnt ripping music or "legally" downloading (i laughed when i said that), then whats the use of all that crap they made??
speaking of crap, didnt they make that Roly Poly Ball thing that plays mp3z and rolls around the floor?
I think this is the link to it lmao... http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/09/sonys-roly-poly.html
HEY SONY!! NOT BUYING THE ROLY BALL NOW!! TAKE THAT!! (just kidding, im probably going to ask Santa to get me it)
Everytime I sync my iPod or make a copy of music to keep in my car rather than the original I write a formal apology to the major record labels and include 200 dollars.
You guys don't?
lol! I just buy 4 albums.
One for the iPod, one for the car, one just to play from the computer and one for work. That is what Sony wants us to do, right?
"Sony BMG's head lawyer says ripping CDs is "stealing."
Phew, with an anti-tech attitude like that, it's a good thing we live in a country where lawyers are not part of the legislative branch. Can you imag--... Oh, no.
The fact that Sony is calling its customers thieves could be part of the problem for reduction of sales.
According to Pariser's claim, simply playing a cd in any player is stealing. Even the most basic player must continually *copy* a stream of data into a buffer to enable gapless playback. Add oversampling and skip protection to the mix, and the player becomes one hell of a pirating device!
South Park had it right, it's making music and having fans who like your music which should be what's important. If everyone's downloading your music, you should be glad to have that kind of fame, and if people like the music they will definitely pay to go to your shows anyway.
Sony and BMG are asses, but they aint changing their mind unless all their musicians start some kinda new hippie movement and decide to screw the corporation and have people download their album for free, "whatevr, I do what I want!" =) Oh actually Radiohead's been doing that...
This reminds me, I've got to rip some BMG albums using my Sony DVD Burner.
Anyone want a copy on some freshly-unpacked Sony media?
What's funny to me is that I just, like 2 days ago, replaced my old cd burner with a new Sony one which comes with Nero software that allows you to easily copy CDs, rip songs to MP3, and all the rest. Did someone miss a memo?
I just read an article on arstechnica that said that Ms. Thomas owns a couple hundred CDs. Sounds to me like she's a pretty good customer. How many do you think she'll buy now? Great business move.
Commerically this is a very serious mistake for Sony BMG to make. If it gets into the mainstream media, possibly commercial suicide unless its retracted.
The way I see it, Sony BMG are now saying that people who buy CDs and copy/rip them are stealing just as people torrent them without ever buying the original.
The big question now is who on earth would be mad enough to buy a legit copy of a CD?
Could someone please post a list of Sony BMG artists. I would hate to KNOWINGLY steal from them by copying/ripping a CD that I might buy in the future. And since I use an mp3 player then I better avoid any illegal activities by just not buying any Sony BMG CDs in future.
Wow I am a horrible person if that is true, because I have my music I bought (CDs and from iTunes) on my laptop, my work PC, my iPhone, and my AppleTV. I guess since that is "stealing" I am going to hell. (Don't tell anyone, but I converted my store bought DVDs to MP4 format and they are on my AppleTV)
The RIAA and the MPAA are really getting out of hand. The DRM and such remind me a lot of gun laws. If you want to legally own a firearm you have to jump through hoops to purchase one (even if you are a law abiding citizen). If you want to purchase a song, most likely, it will be crippled with DRM. On the other hand you can steal music and it can do anything. Criminals don't buy guns through the normal process, they buy "underground" bypassing the legal process. Gun laws do nothing to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals because UH DUHHHHHHHH don't follow the laws. You are only punishing the law abiding people. Same thing with music. If you want to be legit, you are punished by only being able to use the music you PAID for in certain devices/programs.
It's just utter bull.
You just won the thread. VERY well said.
I never even thought about it that way before but your right. DRM isn't stopping criminals. It's just pissing off people who DO obey the law.
Btw....normally in ANY thread I read on Engadget, there are a least a few dissenting opinions. I've yet to see a single poster that agrees with Sony on this one.
That's not a good sign.
Hmm,
I have a great idea. Since Sony BMG want's to pretend that something everyone in the country has been
1. Asking and clamoring for, for the last 5 years
2. Has been a fair use right since the days of the first audio cassette
3. Is something that an entire industry has grown around
we should fight fire with fire.
The EFF should sue Sony the parent company for inducement (spelled right?) after all they produce numerous products that allow customers to RIP CD's to unprotected formats or just plain allow customers to "steal" that one song or album even if they are only making one copy.
I submit the following.
Here are the blank CD's designed specifically for music. While it helps keep us wicked thieves under control by not allowing others to rip our newly built compilation disc, it's obvious that they are inducing us to "steal" our music and put it on their blank CD. GUILTY!!!!
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/emd/439067959.html
Here is the new MP3 player from sony, since they know that 90% of the music on most MP3 players out there are "illegal" ripped music from future convicts, I mean customers own CD collection i propose again that they are inducing us to copy er, "steal" our music from our CD collections and put it on their shiny new MP3 player. GUILTY!!!
Sony PS3
This device is an inducers wet dream. I mean they are touting it as media center and since there is almost no legal media in digital form for us to consume it must be inducing us to copy or play back illegally obtained files. But the real kicker is from their own manual for the PS3.
http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/music/cdimport.html
Yeah thats right it says CD Import baby, GUILTY!!!!
Enjoy
TimT
Sorry folks that first paragraph should read.
===============================================
I have a great idea. Since Sony BMG want's to pretend that something everyone in the country has been
1. Asking and clamoring for, for the last 5 years
2. Has been a fair use right since the days of the first audio cassette
3. Is something that an entire industry has grown around
"is illegal" we should fight fire with fire.
===============================================
Man that's stupid.
What about holding a microphone up to my speakers and recording songs that way? Is that stealing? Because, that's how I roll.
Arg,
One last thing here is the link to the Sony MP3 player. Man I hate that you can't edit these posts after the fact.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665224917
TimT
I only have one thing to say...
http://musicstore.connect.com
they should sue themselves.... just like the coke commercial!
I think MC Lars said it best in "Download This Song":
Music was a product now it is a service
Major record labels why are you trying to hurt us?
Epic’s up in my face like, “Don’t steal our songs Lars,”
While Sony sells the burners that are burning CD-R’s
So Warner, EMI, hear me clearly
Universal Music, update your circuitry
They sue little kids downloading hit songs
They think that makes sense
When they know that it’s wrong!
http://mclars.com
Well, this is a classic example of treating the symptom instead of the disease. It's also a logical fallacy on several levels.
Effect: Sales of CDs are down.
Cause (as expressed by record labels):People are stealing the music that they would normally be buying.
Could be, but I doubt it. There are other possible causes that they won't admit to.
Maybe the product sucks. Outside of Chris Crocker who really wants another paint-by-numbers art-by-committee album by Britney Spears? Labels are unwilling to take chances on unproven talent. They'd rather just rehash a proven formula. Same goes for movies - Die Harderestist? Same goes for video games. How many GTA sequels do we really need?
Are the numbers that they're quoting taking into account electronic music sales? I know that they don't weigh the numbers properly.
Another problem and the reason why piracy is still as widespread as it is, is that buying the product and living with its limitations is more difficult that just stealing it. If I buy an album from iTunes or Zune Marketplace I can't drop the song into my WM6 smartphone or burn more than one CD of it. If I steal it I can do anything I want to it. Imagine that buying a loaf of bread means that you are only allowed to eat it in the store. You can't leave with it or transport it to your house. You are not allowed to make sandwiches or French Toast. You can't butter a slice and hand it to your friend. If I steal it I can do anything I want. I can make stuffing or bread pudding or feed it to birds.
I can't help but think that all this crying about piracy is just lip service to the shareholders. They simply can't admit that the quality if the product is in a downward trend and that people are hungering for new and different music that they can play free of stupid restrictions and enjoy as ART, not a commodity.
I'm sorry record companies and movie studios, I don't believe you.
"Another problem and the reason why piracy is still as widespread as it is, is that buying the product and living with its limitations is more difficult that just stealing it."
QFE
Are you reading any of this RIAA?
This is sad. I think I'm going to go wander over to the local jail and book myself on 2600 charges of grand theft. Dammit.
Sony
Forget this Unpleasant behavior beCause it a real Kicker to Your lOyal cUstomers.
no one buys your crap twice, consumers aren't stupid, we will boycott BMG if you keep this predatory behavior up, your insulting the new mp3 generation, as well as the old mix-tape generation all at the same time.
That made me bust out laughing!!!
Took me a second to find the "hidden message" :)
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
You're my new hero after that subliminal message.
(Not that you need one to hate Sony.)
Hmmm, as I recall (maybe incorrectly, but I doubt it)was it not Sony that successfully argued in US Supreme Court back in the Betamax days, that there is a little concept and precedent called "fair use" and then pioneered the concept of "time shifting?"
SONY BMG may be a different division, but maybe their illustrious head council should do a little "discovery" and research of her own company!
I'm just sayin'...
BTW- I'm sure her parent company will absolutely LOVE that comment (NOT!) to help legalize and increase sales of Sony's digital Walkmen!!!
Yeah, Steve, but if you go back and look at the Supreme Court decision you'll see they defined time-shifting as recording a show to view it ONCE at a later time, and thereafter erasing it. Thus the idea of time shift. Ripping CDs onto computers, etc. doesn't really fall into the category of timeshifting.
Still, the Sony attorney needs to think before speaking :)
Rob-
Although I don't know more about the case, I would not disagree with how you said the Court assessed "time-shifting" as for one-time viewing.
A good lawyer would be able to take it out further now and make a cogent argument based on syllogism.
Obviously, a broadcast program was meant to be viewed once (back then, anyway.)
However, although you do not own rights to a song, if it is on a legally purchased/acquired CD (for example) you can enjoy the right to play it for at least as long as you own that physical media.
Transferring that to music to another media that could be used in a more convenient manner would now become "place-shifting" "space-shifting" or "location-shifting" (choose your favorite term.) I see this as the same philosophical concept still falling into "fair use" doctrines.
Steve:
Yeah, I think that's a good argument. It would be nice to have a legal decision come along that puts that kind of 'place shifting' on firm legal footing. It seems that the law just needs to keep up with the technology. The Fair Use Doctrine has evolved over the years and it looks like it needs to do so again.
I think that this "smart" Sony Lawyer wants every consumer summarilly convicted of stealing music. Then the same consumers can apply for relief if they can prove they bought separate music for the MP3 (Sony) players.
I mean why on earth does Sony hire such silly legal talent? Surely that corporation knows that by acting so OTT they are in danger of alienating their entire customer base. Most especially ALL those who have never used a P2P network, but diligently purchased Sony produced CDs....
This report is pretty hard to believe, unless there is no friend or relatives of the lawyer, or even the lawyer himeself or herself own any mp3 player/ipod. It's not logical as it's just dropping a stone on the feet. Engadget should post the story in more detail, not just a "quote"
This is a perfect example of an overpaid executive who really doesn't understand the products that her company offers and also fails to understand how products are used in a completely legitimate way to fulfill individuals tech lifestyles, such as ripping a CD to play on a SONY MP3 player.
I love it when big companies complain about how much they have "lost" - this is based on what they projected as to what they should earn. Losing implies you had something and then for whatever reason is disappears. The point is - if you didn't have it in the first place, you didn't lose it! If I could apply big businesses thinking to my income taxes, perhaps next year I could write off the $25 Million I believe I should have but not get, and take it as a tax loss. Sony can kiss my A$$ too - Charging upwards of $18 for a plastic disk - greedy, very greedy. If I bought the disk, I own it and can make copies of it and hopefully will use the equipment purchased from Sony to do it.
In Sony BMG's head lawyer said that, then he isn't a very good lawyer.
Stupid typo grumble grumble
Ironic. Sony/BMG owns a website called "yourmusic.com" - sorry but doesn't this name imply a conflict of interest?
Is the CD mine when I buy one for $6.99 or am I committing a crime for subscribing? I really think my membership will be ending post haste.
I don't think they have a clue anymore.
And the world says a big FUCK YOU to Sony and continues to rip their music to their hard drives and later burning them the brands that are $7 dollars cheaper than the 30pk Sony CD-Rs...
Yet another reason to give the big "fuck you mate!" to Sony and their overpriced product and shit music.
props on the "Might want to check yo'self before you wreck yo'self, counselor." ... I'm totally gonna start using that line in my everyday life in my best Mooninite voice
Never mind that, home taping is killing music.
So what's the legal precedent here? Is any sort of backup illegal now in the eyes of the entertainment industry? What about TiVo? Am I breaking the law by recording my favorite shows? I mean, I pay for cable, but sometimes I am not home to watch my shows so I TiVo them. And I do it without commercials. Should I even be posting that? Are the entertainment industry's dread police fanatics going to come after me?
Marc:
Recording was addressed back in the 1980s when the Courts rules that recording a TV show was 'time shifting' and was allowable. The idea, though, was that you were recording the show for later viewing, not making a permanent reproduction of it.
Problem with copyright law is that the laws we have came about mostly before the Digital Age, and the legal system is slow to adapt.
Sony BMG Labels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG
Columbia records: http://www.columbiarecords.com/artists/all.html
Epic Records: http://www.epicrecords.com/artists.html?letter=all
RCA Records: http://www.rcarecords.com/artists.html
Zomba Records: http://www.zombalabelgroup.com/artists.html
Just imagine nobody standing up against this. What will happen, one day? ... when they came to take the RIAA's lawyers... nobody cared. It seems their only value is to prove that once you pay enough tuition, you can get a degree in obnoxity.
I guess we should use a PS3 to rip a BMG CD, think about it: Sony hardware using sony software to steal sony music. I love it!
They would argue yes it is bc you're able to skip their commercials.
Hey, if sony wants to shoot themselves in the foot, groin, and head, who am I to stop them. The dollar could use a little help against the yen anyways.
It seems like the next step should be a class action suit against Sony for selling us all that hardware and software that allows us to copy music onto CDs. Also, since Sony co-developed the CD with Philips, didn't they profit from the sale of every blank CD? It seems that the defense is doing a good job in pointing out that while Sony doesn't want people to copy music, it has profited by selling us all the tools required to copy music onto CDs.
heres the latest that a judge stated!!!
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/riaa-trial-judg.html
I read your link...
And after reading the follow up comments, I can actually buy Sony's stance in theory...but not in practicality.
Incidentally, Ms. Thomas is not on trial for ripping a CD. She's on trial for uploading songs to a P2P network.
The judge is saying that she can be found guilty for distributing copywrited media just by doing that since there is no other reason to upload to a FILE SHARING service. So basically, she can be found guilty without having to prove that others actually downloading what she uploaded.
As a commenter on the website says, It's like selling crack in an ally when no one is buying. You don't have to prove anyone bought the drugs to convict the thug of distribution.
That's actually reasonable.....but not practical. They are making an example of this woman and their motives are flawed to Hell. Publically, this will do Sony more harm than good.
All this, incidentally, is a bit off topic as this goes into P2P file sharing. On topic, the whole "ripping any CD is a crime" is just right out stupifying.
This is an example of not thinking before you speak, and getting bogged down in technicalities.
Might be a surprise to many people, but technically the attorney for Sony is correct. When you buy a CD you own that physical copy. If you duplicate it in anyway, by ripping, putting on iPod, or whatever, then technically you are violating copyright. Copyright specifically protects against reproducing the work.
That said, however, Sony looks completely assinine from a PR perspective as well as a practical one for saying something like this. And it detracts from whatever arguments they might have against stealing that might actually be problematic (i.e. getting songs off of P2P networks).
So whoever let this Sony lawyer out of her office needs to lock her back in there.
I guess you've never heard of fair use, have you. You don't violate a copyright by moving the content from one medium to another. You still are the sole posessor of that content.
This is fair use. Dispite what Sony et al are trying to tell you, you do have legal rights to do things other than what they say you can.
That's not true, Crono. If you want to discuss fair use case law and factors we can do that. You obviously don't know anything about it.
You all have got to know in Sony's defense that Sony Electronics and Sony BMG are two compeletely different companies, sharing the same Sony name with the same Sony font that you have on your PSP's and PS3's.
Sony's Electronics division, I'm sure, doesn't condone Sony BMG litagation in this case. They've been providing SonicStage for years and the PS3, which has music ripping capabilities.
I wish Sony Electronics would either sell their Sony BMG or attempt to acquire it all and run it the way they see fit in accordance with their electronics arm.
That is why I dont buy anything from Sony.
microsoft's media player has built-in ripping, does that mean a lawsuit is going to happen soon?
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume the person is implying "ripping" as illegally downloading. I seriously doubt they meant don't take a CD and copy the song to your MP3 collection. Their definition of "ripping" might be different than that of internet MP3 collectors and enthusiasts.
engadget please give us some updates????!!!!!!
A lawyer said it. Getting definitions right is at the very core of what a lawyer does.
So basically, the lawyer is a MORON any way you look at it.
In the digital era, content can be replicated infinitely for nearly no money. Live performance can't.
It's simple economics. One has monetary value, the other doesn't.
Sony electronics should abort Sony BMG and their Movie division and concentrate on what they did best in the past, making quality gear. As for this women does she have any kids?, If so are they ripping?, If not then fine, but for the rest of us please shut up. I have brought my CD, paid my cash, you have got my money and I will rip it when I like.
Sony's only "policy" with regard to ripping CD's is "follow the money."
Back when Sony was not a content owner and merely made hardware, they argued just the opposite of their position today. If you don't know what this is about (hint: "Betamax"), then try pumping the term "time shifting" into Wikipedia for a short history.
What a dumbass