HP's iPAQ 110 and 210 PDAs get shipment date, prices
By Joshua Topolsky 
posted Oct 6th 2007 6:32PM
posted Oct 6th 2007 6:32PM
[Thanks, Speed]
Read -- HP iPAQ 110 Classic Handheld
Read -- HP iPAQ 210 Enterprise Handheld
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Other than the OS, how different are these from the Dell Axim x51v, which launched about 2 years ago and have already been phased out by Dell? Mine is perfectly good, but I wish I had a smartphone instead, like the new AT&T Tilt or something else along those lines. These are really not a big step forward in power in any way, though.
From what I can tell, the main differences between this and the Axim X50v/X51v are:
- Video acceleration (iPaq doesn't have the Intel 2700g 3D accelerator -- or any other dedicated video chipset for that matter)
- OS (WM6, though you can get Football's WM6 for the X51v, or Maglite's WM6 for the X50v)
- Processor (PXA310 vs. the Dell's PXA270. Not sure what that means in practical terms, if anything.)
- Screen (4.0" on iPaq, 3.7" on Axim)
- Biometrics (optional on iPaq, not available on Axim)
- Battery (iPaq comes standard with a nice 2200mAh, while the Axim comes with an 1100mAh. You can get higher capacity batteries on the Dell, but that requires a new, fatter battery cover.)
Other than the nice battery and larger screen, the Axim still kicks its ass.
OH, forgot: The iPaq has 128 megs of main memory, versus the DEll's 64 megs (which can be upgraded for a fairly hefty price plus shipping and a several week wait) which is another nice perk. The lack of the video accellerator kinda still ruins the iPaq for me, even if it does look like quite a nice machine otherwise.
The Marvell chips have more than decent graphics capabilities.
why would someone want one of these PPC's? PPC+Cellular is the way to go, but if you remove the cellular function they are just a fancy paperweight.
i used one of dell axim v51s over in afgahnistan during my last deployment, the cellular networks dont support phones from US. but we had wifi, coupled with skype i had a "mobile" phone anywhere on base. i also used it for briefing notes. and soldier data.. so there not just paperweights.. they have their uses..
A fancy paperweight? I don't want a smartphone. The only reason I would is so I wouldn't have to keep seperate contacts between my phone and my PDA.. I can use bluetooth on it to tether with my phone, or wifi, to get online.
Nex, let me get this straight. You were on a military base, doing military business using Skype? That sounds very secure.
Smartphones are bogged down by their tiny CPU power ... they can't play video for crap. Smartphones also have the tiny screens.
thats a load of bullcrap, freakmarket.
My Samsung i730 has plenty of cpu, plays divx avi just fine, and has a 520mhz processor. Oh any my WM5 PPC PHONE is over 2 years old!!
@huh
nope i used to to communicate with family stateside.. much cheaper then cell. for official communication we have encrypted cell, sat phone, and email. nothing official goes out on an un-encrypted line.. ..btw sorry it took so long to respond.. busy busy busy
Why do these hold so little interest to me, yet the OLPC 1 for 2 deal seems like a great buy?
Ipaq...what an unfortunate name...
Why?
He's against apple
Change P to R and it becomes iRAQ!
how 1999... what a useless thing to invest their money in. i mean seriously, are they making so much money at hp that they have nothing else to do with it? I'd be suprised if they sold 10 of these, with the first and only 10 being gifts to their development team.
Wow, salespeople really don't like your comments.
But u are right, I got asleep reading all this...
I will tell you do not worry about HP, they do make money. Look, this PDA costs 20 bucks to produce in bill-of-materials while is sold for 400!
When I looked at HP spec on their website I've just completely lost my sleep! Take a look, together with this PDA they sell, for example, 128MB mini-SD flash card for 40 dollars! That's a definition of highway robbery. 320 bucks for GB! Cheapest is 1GB MiniSD for $99, this is still factor 15 to current street prices! Or several plastic styluses for $30. For 30 bucks I would get a truckload of it in China delivered tomorrow :-) Yes, the maker of expensive printer ink, plastic and reseller of flash cards HP do makes money...
But ... I would probably buy it somewhere in Asia in gray market for 30 bucks, just to play, it has nice VGA screen, G Wi-Fi, not super-duper, but also not as bad Marvel chip and nice battery. Bad that it does not have 16meg dedicated graphics memory like some older Axims...Of course you better not to expose this ancient piece in public here in California, in airplanes, parties etc where some may have 3-3.5G Wimax, EV-DO 2-megabit per second smartphones... Still some may really need such PDAs, may be one per 100K-people probably, since I've never seen anyone of our 10K organization ever used PDA lately
SV, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The raw component cost of the iPaq 210 is probably around $200, not including the costs of engineering, assembly, testing, programming, shipment, and retail. Please refrain from being an idiot in the future.
Sounds like we have "pro" here on components price, capable also to assess cost of engineering, assembly, testing and programming. And besides non-idiot!
I understand he can't estimate the drop in component prices over device lifetime, which defines BoM and profit, but hopefully he can add together 3-4 numbers. It is easy: the new most expensive components like processor and screen will fall by factor of 2 in a course of a year or so. So in 6-12month in quantities 10K-100K they will cost
$10 processor
$12 LCD touchscreen panel
$5 battery
$3 OS
$20 other components
Note, no fancy screen here, no GSM/EDGE, no 8GB NAND flash, no camera, other fanciest components like proximity sensor like in iPhone, the BoM of which in a year will be a half or less of current 200 bucks. It is already lower, in such quantities 8GB of flash to cost $70?!!
And cost of engineering etc for HP 110/210? For what, for such last century devices ?
If you seriously believe that a 4" VGA LCD with touchscreen can be gotten for $12, then you're resistant enough to reality that nothing I can say is going to help, other than to note that your estimate is probably 6-7 times too low, even in large bulk. Try actually pricing out the parts. Otherwise, I don't have time to waste playing with you.
Well, buddy, I was not right, you can't add the numbers, so sure, we are wasting time. Last question. What, to you, was the costs of last big thing iPhone multitouch LCD 4 months ago?
No GPS? No cellular? No either?
Pass....
A little shortsighted don't you think @Mark? That is a really dumb comment. This is easily one of the best spec'd media devices out there or am I missing something? At work I don't need to use a 3g network so that is irrelevant to me. In an airport I can use a Wifi hostspot which are plentyful along with skype for phone usage. At work I cannot have a phone with a camera so that is no biggee to me. I also get a VGA 4" screen to watch media (movies)which is bigger that a new iPod Touch, more storage capacity than an iPod touch since use as many 16Gb CF cards as I want, unlike the iPod Touch, there is bluetooth unlike the iPod Touch and the OS (Windows Mobile 6) interfaces perfectly with my Exchange server environment at work and the personal exchange hosting service I use at home. The OS is open so I can use 3rd party apps unlike the iPod Touch. My work environment doesn't allow phones or cameras period anyway. I could go on but people need to realize that everyone doesn't need a phone or GPS enabled PDA. I have a GPS in both my RL and TL so I don't need GPS in my basic phone.
There are plenty of reasons for these devices and I am sure HP did their homework and created a complete Marketing plan to identify the major players in this market and with Dell leaving they saw and opportunity take the market back. Personally, I think it is a safe move since they are only marketing two new devices so they won't have much to risk if it were to flop which I doubt based on the examples I sighted above. Yes people with by them and they will sell more than 10.
@Nytstryk
ipaq is twice as heavy, twice as thick and battery life isnt even close to the iPod touch.
For $399 you get absalutlty no useful built in memory with the iPaq, with an iPod touch you get 16GBs
screen size is only .5 smaller on the iPod Touch but its high rez, and its meant for media playback so it will look better.
wireless on the ipaq is only 802.11'b' good luck with that ipod touch has much faster 802.11G
Going through a list of songs or video files in Windows Mobile is a nightmare compared to an iPod touch.
iPhone/iPod touch will eventualy get more apps and even 3rd party apps. iPod touch has been out for less than a month give it some time.
honestly if you need it to sync with your work exchange server then yes get the ipaq, that is the only reason devices like this still exists. If you're looking for a true portable media player without the fuss of manually managing media files and SD cards the go with the iPod touch. All devices are a compramise you have to choose whats more important to you, being tied to your work exchange server or having an easy to use media player.
Carlos, you're quite mistaken. The iPaq is only two ounces heavier than the iPod Touch. The iPaq does have 802.11g, and sports twice the battery capacity of the Touch for much longer life. Also, unlike the Touch, it supports removable and expandable memory, up to 32 GB right now and 64 GB soon; Bluetooth headphones; a larger and higher resolution screen; spare and extended batteries for even more runtime; third-party software; and superior audio and video format support.
In short, the only things the iPod Touch has on it is the Apple interface and the Touch's thickness. As for third-party apps on the Touch, Apple seems intent on breaking these.
Sorry Carlos, but Admiral Adama over here just took your foot and launched it square into your mouth. Do a little research next time.
Is there still a market for phone-less PDAs ?!!?
Of couse there is, look at all those comments with lowest ranking. People who low rank them are the potential buyers. Just hope hp have enough of those buyers to cover the cost for this plain PDA.
Don't look at low rank. Here are a lot of salesfolks interested to fool customers with any new plastic
Here's one of 2 main problems...
Memory 64 MB RAM & 256 MB ROM
The other is if you happen to forget to charge it and it goes flat everything is gone. It's like starting over right out of the box!
I would expect the file system to be flash memory!
The marketing information is incorrect you are quoting is incorrect. The device as 128mb of RAM for program installation and 256mb of RAM for storage. It also has an SDHC slot AND a compact flash slot. So theoretically, there are 32gb CF cards in production as we speak and 8 and 16gb SD cards in production. That would give you 48gb of storage space. I can get a 16GB compact flash card for $137 and I have the flexibility to get multiple cards for unlimited storage unlike the new iPod Touch. Sure, there are other media devices that have more "onboard" storage space but they don't interface with Microsoft Exchange which owns the mail server market. This device is a media device "plus" a touchscreen PDA. I get the best of both worlds viewed on a 4" screen and not on a cramped 2.5" 3G phone screen.
I verifed the memory specs with HP before I placed my order on Friday. If it does not I will return it. I don't think they would lie just to sell it. After all the shareholder legal troubles they have they don't need a bait and switch class action lawsuit on their hands.
Nytstryk: "The marketing information is incorrect you are quoting is incorrect."
Actually, no. You are just confused. If you read the article _carefully_, you will notice that there are two devices being released.
iPaq 110 has 64/256 memory with 3.5" screen (presumably 240x320)
iPaq 210, which is likely the one you ordered, has 128/256 memory with 4" screen (480x640)
there are also differences in connectivity (IR for 110), battery (1200 mAh vs 2200 mAh), weight (210 is almost double), expansion (SDIO only for 110).
nevertheless, ran6110's comment about the power-related data-loss shows (s)he is pretty clueless about handheld device developments.
@Meatstick
No, I am not wrong. The device with a CF and SD slot is the 210 and not the 110. I never said anything about the non VGA 110. Everything I am referring to speaks of the 210. This is not too hard to figure out from the specs. I purchased the 210 and it has 128mb of RAM (program)/256mb of RAM (storage) as well, again, in the specs. Also, I referred to a "4" screen", which again is not the 110 but the 210 and in the specs. This is not to hard to infer.
I will be perfectly explicit in the future as to what I am referring to.
nevertheless, ran6110's comment about the power-related data-loss shows (s)he is pretty clueless about handheld device developments.
Your telling me that you allow the unit to discharge and nothing is lost? The user installed applications and settings, registry data, user information etc.
Also, I took the system RAM directly from the link in the article.
@ran6110
That is true, you do NOT lose anything! And you haven't lost your daata using WM since WM5 came out.
the RAM for WM5 and WM6 is STRICTLY RAM, you dont get to store stuff in it.
It is not right to call the flash chip ROM anymore, since it is no longer read only memory. The "ROM" is basically a flash chip with 2 partitions. 1 Being the OS which is read only, and the other being storage, which stores your registry and files.
Nytstryk: "Everything I am referring to speaks of the 210. This is not too hard to figure out from the specs."
Yep, you are wrong. Your statement "The marketing information is incorrect you are quoting is incorrect" is wrong, both factually and grammatically, since it is "not too hard to figure out from the specs" that ran6110 was talking about the 110 in his original post.
ran6110: "Your telling me that you allow the unit to discharge and nothing is lost? The user installed applications and settings, registry data, user information etc."
Yep, you are wrong too, as I said already.
wow - that UI looks incredibly dated - is that the newest Windows Mobile?
Jesus - reminds me of Windows 95 - cant believe that passes for a modern OS, even on a mobile device
those were my thoughts too, but it's even worse than that. Some of the options menu look like they were straight out of Windows 3.1, it's just horrific for something released in 2007.
Well, that Windows Mobile UI owns the PDA marketplace regardless of what you think. I administer Blackberry's and Windows Mobile devices daily at work and well businesses as well as individuals have no problems with the interface because it works. All of the fancy UI's on these devices die for a reason and that is why Microsoft took the lead from Blackberry and is increasing it. It looks like Windows so there is no learning curve. Makes sense to me. I would like to own such a dated UI and the revenue it generates. I'd be, well, Bill Gates. To each his own. Go buy an AT&T, locked down OS, iPod Touch if you don't like it. No biggee. I for one won't be told what I can and cannot install on a device I would have paid $599 for.
What is the point of a locked down PDA (no user installable applications) in the first place? Makes no sense to me. Feel free to name one PDA interface that has sold more PDA's...
umm the GUI is still dated regardless of any other factor - there is no reason why MS cant update their software to be a little friendlier on the eyes and easier to use. We have seen it elsewhere so why cant MS do the same, its not like it would take any functionality away. The symbol for memory is a graphic of an actual memory chip, how many non-tech people know what memory chip looks like?
Market dominance is no excuse for an ugly GUI, there are a whole slew of reasons why MS dominates this market, believe me GUI is not one of them. Its business falling back on whats familiar, its IT folks like you looking for something that easily works with the rest of the MS stuff at the office (and can use MS as a scapegoat when things go wrong).
Palm and RIM have equally ugly archaic GUIs, Apple has just come out with theirs less than 6-months ago, we'll see how that works out over the next year or so.
wow, you guys are ruthless...
...but i agree.
@Nytstryk
Thanks for your opinion. I certainly won't call yours dumb.
For me, I need convergence. I currently have a device that is my pda and gps. I have a second device that has my cell and my music. And I have a third device that is my pocket camera (I'm a pro photographer by trade). Then there's my pro photo gear.
*I* need a reliable (read: good support and drivers, not some Chinese-backed, barely written in English documentation without ever seeing drivers released in N. America) device that converges at least two of the three things (not including my pro gear). A pda that combines either a decent snaps camera and gps, or a pda that combines gps and cell, or a pda that combines all of it. It's almost 2008, and this product is stuck in 2004 technology for what it offers. So, IMO, no it isn't one of the best spec'ed out media devices out there, and IMO, you are missing something: your likes and dislikes in a product aren't necessarily everyone else's.
ran6110:
The battery goes flat, you charge it. They haven't had that issue since PPC 2003. Get with the times.
Mind you, I like my x50v with 8gigs of memory (4SD, 4CF), thank you very much.
You're welcome.
man...i get what everyone is saying...i'm sure there are really good applications for this....but, 2 devices are bad enough....the thought of carrying around 3 devices is painful...besides, for me personally, i need this functionality with me all the time, not just where there's a wifi spot...i live in a 2nd/3rd tier market and there's some wifi around, but not everywhere...
i know it works for some folks...but for me it feels like i'm walking around with handcuffs...
But one market this is great for is anyone involved in colleges. I'm at Brandeis University, and I have wifi everywhere I go, so my Dell Axim x51v has constant connectivity, so it basically is like a smartphone in terms of browsing and email, and I can do skype whenever I want too. A smartphone makes it too difficult to do some simple things, like put in an assignment into the tasks or edit a schedule. My Axim makes it nice and simple.
On the other hand, when I'm at home in New York, I would rather have a converged device. No matter what, I need to have my phone--Samsung Sync--and my 80GB iPod, so if I want my PDA with me, I have three heavy devices. If I want my camera with me, that's 4. At college, I can just drop whatever I don't need off in my room, but when I'm in the Village, I can't do something like that, so it becomes difficult. Also, I'm not as surrounded by free wifi as I am at school, so the PDA becomes less useful.
In all, I personally would like to have a combined device that took the ease of use and the internal power of a PDA and merged it with a phone so that I could just make a call too. I also just don't want to have to spend $40 or however much more for a data plan. I'm locked into AT&T on a family plan, and their data is really expensive for the smartphones. A PDA, on the other hand, has no contract, so it's just the cash you lay down up front. I don't know where I'd come down on this issue in the end.
Actually, on second thought, everybody should just buy the iPhone.
If anthing HP finally made a good looking PDA. Their PDA's normally are very unpleasing to the eye.
I'll give you that...it is good lookin
So what are the fundamental differences between something like this and say the iPod Touch/iPhone? Really I'm curious because the masses are gushing all over the iPod Touch/iPhone when really it's just a crippled PDA with a focus on media right?
How is something like this iPaq better?
Is it capable of playing music and movies and podcasts as easily?
How about browsing the web with your fingers? Do you need to use a stylus?
The reason I ask these questions is because I just returned an iPhone. There was a lot I liked about it, especially safari, but the lack of third party apps and expandability, along with the headache of AT&T, ultimately had me returning it. Now I'm kind of looking around at possible replacements, be it smartphones, personal media players or even PDA's.
I think you may have answered your own questions...a device like this addresses the reasons why you returned your iPhone...
btw...I also returned an iPhone after 1 week for much of the same reasons....though I totally loved the interface....
The iPaq has a larger screen with twice the resolution. It can play any format of audio or video, not just what Apple allows you. Browsing the web varies according to browser, but there are some excellent browsers on Windows Mobile.
@adbrown
Michael is looking for a device that can play back media - I think you left out some important facts comparing the iPaq to the iPod touch.
ipaq is $399, no useful built in memory, its twice as thick and weighs twice as much. Wireless is only 802.11'B' and there is no mention of battery life. Not really a good portable option for media playback.
If you're looking for a media player the iPod touch is a much better option. For $399 you get 16GB built in, Its easy to carry, has a long battery life, plays plenty of different file formats, the screen is meant for displaying video and has excellent WiFi 802.11 B and G support with an awesome browser. Podcast are sorted into their own folders, media management is excellent under iTunes. iTunes is an amazing aggregator of podcast through the iTunes store and once you subscribe they are automatically downloaded and add to your iPod as new episodes are released. no fuss.
Michael if your looking for a media player with a browser the iPod touch is a much better option.
the ipaq is more geared toward business and PDA functions like integration with outlook email and calendar, not really a media player.
Carlos, see my reply upthread for an explanation of why you're wrong.
I still have 2 non phone PDAs (a Dell Axim X5 and an X50v) that I use on a regular basis, although my Sprint PPC6700 still serves as my primary PDA. The X5 serves as my alarm clock and also gets used for eBook reading. The X50 is used for GPS navigation (which I could do with my PPC6700, but the VGA screen works better for it) and when I need to have a PDA but don't want to have an Internet or phone connection.
As for demand for non phone PDAs, most PDA end users would be best served by a Windows Mobile based phone, but there are still applications for which a standalone PDA is useful, although many of those are specialized, and best served by ruggedized devices (such as the ones Symbol and Intermec make) with things like built-in barcode readers. A fair number of standalone PDAs these days also come with integrated GPS.
For the time being, my X5 and X50v still work quite well (the X5 is starting to get old though, and might eventually need replacement) although it is nice to still have replacements available if needed.
Does anyone know if the 111 supports A2DP? Wireless stereo headphones own.
Finally -- PDAs for those of us that don't want to spend $40+ on a monthly plan _plus_ $20+ on a data plan for two years. With free WiFi sprouting up in many places, keeping in touch with one's email is easy with these devices.
I wish that they had priced it in the $200 range, which would have made it a no-brainer. However with the PDA market having such slim offerings, I suspect that HP can name its price.
I think you are totally right, Jagadeesh.
People are making a lot of valid points defending this device's right to exist, but the price factor is the biggest sticking point, in my opinion.
The device is priced at $299 and $399 for the QVGA and VGA versions respectively. That is about the price of a totally unlocked smartphone (sans carrier subsidy) these days.
I remember when people found out how much Apple was spending in material costs per iPod or per iPhone, and figuring it was about half the retail cost of the device... a lot of the same people were complaining here that Apple was evil and trying to rip off the customer... these iPaqs run the same OS as a lot of smartphones, plus use a lot of the same components, but eschew the complicated baseband radio for cellular connectivity... arguably some of the most expensive components on a smartphone today... yet they still charge smartphone-like prices.
I would not be surprised if both of the products above cost HP less than $100 in materials, giving them a HUGE profit margin per each sold. The other side of it, of course, is that PDAs are no longer "hot" devices that is on every consumers wish list (like i guess in the late 90s) so HP clearly won't sell millions of these.
I'd like to see you find more than the most basic unlocked smartphone for $400. Certainly not one that has a 4" VGA screen, dual memory card slots, a high end battery, and cutting edge processor. And actually, a cellular radio is quite cheap these days.
These units don't look like much of an upgrade over my very useful hx4700 which I use to this day. With the recent availability of the WM6 ROMS from the community the device is very much as relevant to me today as the first day I bought it. These new units seem to me a refinement of a solid hardware platform for HP. Somebody can add to this but from what I saw briefly, these 'upgraded' units have more memory and SDHC support. Processor is the same zippy one as my hx4700 and the video performance is probably as good if not better. I wouldn't trade the beautiful 4" VGA screen with any of the current devices from our friends in Cupertino (though I've got those too) or even the vast majority of the dedicated media players.
The processor isn't the same one as your hx4700. It's a generation newer with improved performance, greatly reduced power consumption, and built-in MPEG-4 video decoding.
These devices are not very different than the hx24XX and hx27XX respectively. Granted, they have some newer versions of exactly the same features, and a bit more memory (but you are going to use CF and SD cards to expand anyway).
Also, if you take my experience on them: support is crappy, because whenever I really needed support, they told me to clean reset the unit (and I called support exactly to avoid that). For example, if you use all of the storage in the iPAQ, starts resetting forever (very robust software indeed). If you try to install software from Activesync and something goes wrong in the PPC side of the installation, again, you have to clean reset your unit.
Now, if WM6 improves on these issues, I would expect HP to allow me to upgrade my hx2755 to it, since aside from some details, my devices seems perfectly capable of handling this new OS (I've seen devices with 320MHz processors running it). However, HP's position is that I will have to buy a new 400 bucks device that has almost the exact same specs to solve a problem that should not have been there in the first place. So if you are thinking of buying one of those, just hope no major issues exist right now, because HP probably has no intention of supporting you in the long term.
>>>>>>>>> only support 802.11b :-( thats old
It had b and g compatibility.
but remember it has sdio so you can buy g wifi
Hey, it's like my HTC Wizard... without the phone. Seriously, without the extra phone functionality a PPC is considerably less useful.
If you like losing all your settings and installed software when your PDA runs out of battery, this IPAQ POS is for you. Of course I have a previously top of the line iPaq I'd like to get rid of for even $50.
Seriously, WinCE PDAs were extinct as of 2002.
I'd just like to point out that this is no longer true. As for Windows Mobile 5 for Pocket PC, all settings and software are stored in non-volatile memory, so you can drain the battery dry and when you recharge it it will be as you left it.
Windows Mobile for Smartphone has never had this problem at all.
The assertion that WinCE PDAs are dead is also quite subjective; there are more devices on the market than ever before, and thanks to the help of custom ROMs, older models maintain their relevance.
That ship date is false, it is always +2 of the date you check. Here is a copy of a letter someone recieved regarding the shipdate, after managing to place an order a little back.
Here is what they said:
We are sorry. The HP iPAQ 210 Enterprise Handheld (MFG# FB040AA#ABA), on your order is not yet available. Our warehouse is expecting a launch date for 10/22. We apologize for the inconvenience this is causing you. If you would like to contact a sales rep in regards to another purchase, you can reach the sales department at 800-888-5858.
Unfortunately, due the fact that we cannot fulfill your order, the order will need to be canceled at this time.
We understand your current selection is your first choice and again, we are sorry it's not available.
We look forward to doing business with you again in the future.
Thank you,
WOW that's sexy. Too bad it's just a PDA. Didn't everyone get the memo?
Great form factor, excellent features. I would love to have that 4 inch VGA screen. However, HP needs to put out a version with HSDPA, and if possible GPS. Two of the other new ipaq phones have HSDPA, but their screens are too small.
It's amazing how many of these comments are so uneducated....
Windows Mobile 6 is the latest version of Windows Mobile. Meaning there's actually a real close button, unlike WM5's WM2003-esque close button. Then let's see, this device also has SDHC support, with high capacity support for Compact Flash as well. So we can have about 64GB of storage. As if your oh-so huggly tiny smartphones can do that. Then there's Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, 4 inch VGA screen, and, hmm, oh that's right, the CPU is at 624mhz, unlike many models of smartphones that can't even see that number. So, think a standalone PDA is dead? How about I slam the ideas on the table, people.
This HP 210 is an Enterprise Handheld. That means it is a, and I quote the HP site, "business-class PDA that sets the standard for mobile enterprise computing". This isn't for you salary workers that earn less than $10 an hour, this is for the big wigs and suits that put your salary to shame. Oh, so your smartphone/iphone can do what this HP 210 can do? How about this:
Job: Professional photographer. Camera: SLR or DSLR with Compact Flash memory. Don't have a computer nearby or a large az laptop? Want to preview those pics on a nice 4 inch screen at 640x480? Empty out your CF card into a 32GB SDHC on your HP 210 Enterprise Handheld. Didn't think Compact Flash was still alive? Uber fail. Compact flash is still the choice for high speed photography. HP 210 1, smartphone 0.
Job: Stock Broker. Role: See my stocks all on one screen. Aw, is your smartphones screen too small? Text too small? I don't think there's even a smartphone with a VGA 4 INCH 640x480 screen out there. (here's a hint: the HTC Advantage can trump any device, but it's large and requires a headset to use the phone function. Too bad smartphone fanboys, your only hope was a 5 inch-screened device that required a headset.) HP 210 Enterprise handheld is the way to go, thanks to LANDSCAPE SUPPORT. HP 210 2, Smartphone 0.
Let's try to think on an Undernet-level, and try to dissect these products.
Third party support: Many, many Windows Mobile applications out there to pretty much put your old laptop to shame. There are drawing programs, image editing/image viewing programs, emulators, etc that can't even be enjoyed to their fullest potential on a smartphone. The iphone can now die in this debate, because it's third party support is so lacking I'm not even going to talk about AT&T. Oh, but the iphone has built in storage, why? So that you can fill it up hoping it will never fill up? What happens when your 4GB/8GB has filled up? Can't add anymore storage space because you're sheet out of luck. Think I don't care? My iPod is filled to the brim with movies and songs, and it's a 30GB iPod. Why does it suck so bad? Because I'm stuck to one stupid az video format that even with the best video encoding compression the movies still get to around 300MB, and that's even with a quality drop. This HP 210, on the other hand, not only has a number of third party video players, but the best one, Core Player, can play any known format and best of all, at the time of downloading the software off the main page, it's free. Did I forget to mention that at 4 inches, 640x480 with total memory support of up to 64GB, this HP 210 can kill my 30GB ipod with each byte of space that ipod has? I won't even get into the iphone because at third party support and storage upgradeability, this HP 210 is enough to satisfy me, a crazed gadget enhancer.
Oh, that's right. Seems like the most widely publicized emulator available for the iphone is that now defunct NES one. Right, Windows Mobile can emulate a high number of games, including NES, SNES, Sega MegaDrive/Game Gear, Gameboy/GBC/GBA, and my personal favorite, the Sony Playstation. That's right, PSX in my hand. I know even Windows Mobile smartphones can use these emulators, but they can't use them the way this HP 210 can. I won't even forget that with SD HC support I can fit more than half the PSX library in one card. Did I fail to mention not every smartphone has a touchscreen? And we all know smartphones have a small screen to begin with.
If I didn't even give you a hint as to why standalone PDA's are still alive, then you have officially fallen into Apple's trap of "I want a phone, video player, music player and web browsing all in one!" trap. Why? Because that's what you asked for, and that's what you got. Look how the iphone is now lol, seems like that 1.1 firmware can't get out of the news. Wake up and smell the circuit board people. Your smartphone can't do everything, and you dmn well know that.
I'm a FOREX Trader. Try to keep up, k?
Good commentary. As an owner of an hx2750 (and who bought my wife an hx2795b), here's a thought or two about what you're not getting with the 210. Although since I haven't put my greasy hands on one yet, some of this might be speculation...
You don't get biometrics on the 210. What a shame - that's the only reason I chose the hx2700 units. I could say I wonder why but that would be rhetorical. The hardware integration into Windows Mobile was a horrible kludge and the Credant software as it was implemented on the iPAQ was not the most stable product either.
The 210 doesn't appear to have an infrared port(?)! Well, the SIR infrared on the hx2700 was weak and crippled anyway, so I guess rather than spend fifty cents on better hardware and IRDA licensing they got rid of it altogether?
The 210 is a full ounce heavier than the already somewhat heavy hx2700. Egads.
Interesting, your comment about previewing DSLR images. I tried that a couple of times with my hx but it was intolerably slow. I don't think it was the software though, I think it was slow hardware on the CF slot. Hopefully that has improved? I thought my hx would be handy for transferring data from between CF and SD cards too, but I think they must share an interrupt. Woof, it was slow :-(.
I suspect the HP "enterprise" prattle is just marketing crap. Tell me exactly what the new iPAQs have that make them enterprise -class products? Do they have manageability of some sort? Some special enterprise -class support or business continuity considerations?
True, HP probably won't sell a lot of these, but I'll tell you why I like a dedicated PDA instead of an all-in-one solution: Battery life. With an all-in-one, I have to make sure I don't use up all of the battery listening to MP3s and/or watching movies and/or playing games so that I still have some battery left for actual phone use. I have an iPod. I have a Treo (which acts as a secondary PDA). I have an Axim X50v. Each have their own functions which they individually excel at. That's just the way I like it. It may mean I carry more devices around, but that's fine. If I can have individual devices that are excellent at what they do instead of a single jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none device, then that's the way I'll go. Until a device turns up with all of the features of my Axim X50v, Treo, and iPod, _and_ has good battery life (3+ hours fully taxed) and serious storage (if not a hard drive then dual-card with one of them being SDHC) then I'll consider consolidating my gear. Until then, I'll keep my individual units.
Having said that, this HP looks very nice. Solid-looking, nice big screen, lots of RAM, fast processor with some added graphics capabilities (some of the features of the ill-fated Stanwood successor to the 2700G were piled into the 3xx series, though not 3D) and WM6 native. It's a bit spendy, I'll admit that, but if my Axim ever dies and I need a decent successor, this would probably be it.
Ive been waiting for this for sooo long... WAIT IT JUST GOT SERIAL IR, SWEET
One Question: Does anyone know if the 210's mini usb port would support a flash drive via a mini usb to usb adapter? Thanks.
It looks to be USB On The Go, so yes, it should support a flash drive.
Wow, salespeople really don't like your comments.
But u are right, I got asleep reading all this...
I will tell you do not worry about HP, they do make money. Look, this PDA costs 20 bucks to produce in bill-of-materials while is sold for 400!
When I looked at HP spec on their website I've just completely lost my sleep! Take a look, together with this PDA they sell, for example, 128MB mini-SD flash card for 40 dollars! That's a definition of highway robbery. 320 bucks for GB! Cheapest is 1GB MiniSD for $99, this is still factor 15 to current street prices! Or several plastic styluses for $30. For 30 bucks I would get a truckload of it in China delivered tomorrow :-) Yes, the maker of expensive printer ink, plastic and reseller of flash cards HP do makes money...
But ... I would probably buy it somewhere in Asia in gray market for 30 bucks, just to play, it has nice VGA screen, G Wi-Fi, not super-duper, but also not as bad Marvel chip and nice battery. Bad that it does not have 16meg dedicated graphics memory like some older Axims...Of course you better not to expose this ancient piece in public here in California, in airplanes, parties etc where some may have 3-3.5G Wimax, EV-DO 2-megabit per second smartphones... Still some may really need such PDAs, may be one per 100K-people probably, since I've never seen anyone of our 10K organization ever used PDA lately
"Adama D. Brown @ Oct 7th 2007 10:19PM wrote:
SV, you clearly have no idea what you're talking
about. The raw component cost of the iPaq 210
is probably around $200, not including the costs
of engineering, assembly, testing, programming,
shipment, and retail. Please refrain from being
an idiot in the future"
Wow! This guy locked threads (see above) but I will do respond here.
We clearly have "pro" here on components price, capable also to assess cost of "research" "programming", "assembly". And besides non-idiot!
I understand he can't estimate the drop in component prices but hopefully he can add together numbers. It is easy: they will fall by factor of 2 in a course of a year or so. So in 6-12month in quantities 10K-100K they will cost
$10 processor
$12 LCD touchscreen panel
$5 battery
$3 OS
$20 other components
Note, no fancy screen here, no GSM/EDGE, no 8GB NAND flash, no camera, other fanciest components like proximity sebsor like in iPhone BoM of which in a year will be a half or less of current 200 bucks.
And cost of research? For what, for last century device ?
See upthread.
The link that the story went to has a typo. Other HP pages show that the 210 has b/g, not just b.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/215348-215348-64929-314903-215384-3544499.html
I have been a Palm PDA man for the last 15+ years. I am in sales and have over 1000 contacts stored on my Palm ZIRE 71. I use it mostly for contact ,lookups calender, and memos. I don't want a PDA with a phone,camera,play music, read emails or have bluetooth. . I just need a fast relaible PDA. I bought in the last 3 weeks and returned a Palm E2 and a TX. I'm going to buy and try a HP iPAQ 111. I need a change. Any comments would be appreciated.
I called HP today and they told me the 110 and 210 will not be released until sometime in November. I'm looking at the 110. The size is similar to my HP 4155 (which is getting tired, but has been the most valuable gadget I've ever owned). The 210 is too big for me (similar to the Dell X51).
Just spoke to Nick at HP and he advised me to check the website on Friday. He said the 110's should be available then.
It's understandable that not everyone would be excited about this PDA, but as a doctor this seems invaluable as a device capable of viewing a lot of data (medical ebooks), edit a variety of documents (how easy is this on a touch or iphone?) and play music and videos (on 32 - 64 gig cards - with 2 slots).
Sounds perfect.
And the previous posts make a good point in terms of on going pricing. Blackberrys and iphones require ongoing contracts that are quite costly.
Imagine one of these with 2 64 gig cards? You'd barely need your computer :)
Anyone know of a competitive device capable of accepting large SD cards, editing documents (word etc), viewing pdfs, wireless and internet browsing and playing video and music?
Also, anyone know of a UK date?