We know that you're all on pins and needles right now waiting to find out when you can get your hands on those new HP PDAs, the
iPAQ 110 and 210, and how much it will cost you when you do. Well, you're in luck, because the company has just added shipping dates and pricing to its website, thus making your Fall plans a little bit easier. If you'll recall, both WiFi equipped, Windows Mobile 6 devices feature color TFT touchscreens, Marvell PXA310 624 Mhz processors, and Bluetooth 2.0. The devices will be shipping on October 8th, with the 110 selling for $299, and the 210 for $399.
[Thanks, Speed]
Read -- HP iPAQ 110 Classic Handheld
Read -- HP iPAQ 210 Enterprise Handheld
posted October 6th 2007 6:32PM
So what are the fundamental differences between something like this and say the iPod Touch/iPhone? Really I'm curious because the masses are gushing all over the iPod Touch/iPhone when really it's just a crippled PDA with a focus on media right?
How is something like this iPaq better?
Is it capable of playing music and movies and podcasts as easily?
How about browsing the web with your fingers? Do you need to use a stylus?
The reason I ask these questions is because I just returned an iPhone. There was a lot I liked about it, especially safari, but the lack of third party apps and expandability, along with the headache of AT&T, ultimately had me returning it. Now I'm kind of looking around at possible replacements, be it smartphones, personal media players or even PDA's.
I think you may have answered your own questions...a device like this addresses the reasons why you returned your iPhone...
btw...I also returned an iPhone after 1 week for much of the same reasons....though I totally loved the interface....
The iPaq has a larger screen with twice the resolution. It can play any format of audio or video, not just what Apple allows you. Browsing the web varies according to browser, but there are some excellent browsers on Windows Mobile.
@adbrown
Michael is looking for a device that can play back media - I think you left out some important facts comparing the iPaq to the iPod touch.
ipaq is $399, no useful built in memory, its twice as thick and weighs twice as much. Wireless is only 802.11'B' and there is no mention of battery life. Not really a good portable option for media playback.
If you're looking for a media player the iPod touch is a much better option. For $399 you get 16GB built in, Its easy to carry, has a long battery life, plays plenty of different file formats, the screen is meant for displaying video and has excellent WiFi 802.11 B and G support with an awesome browser. Podcast are sorted into their own folders, media management is excellent under iTunes. iTunes is an amazing aggregator of podcast through the iTunes store and once you subscribe they are automatically downloaded and add to your iPod as new episodes are released. no fuss.
Michael if your looking for a media player with a browser the iPod touch is a much better option.
the ipaq is more geared toward business and PDA functions like integration with outlook email and calendar, not really a media player.
Carlos, see my reply upthread for an explanation of why you're wrong.
I still have 2 non phone PDAs (a Dell Axim X5 and an X50v) that I use on a regular basis, although my Sprint PPC6700 still serves as my primary PDA. The X5 serves as my alarm clock and also gets used for eBook reading. The X50 is used for GPS navigation (which I could do with my PPC6700, but the VGA screen works better for it) and when I need to have a PDA but don't want to have an Internet or phone connection.
As for demand for non phone PDAs, most PDA end users would be best served by a Windows Mobile based phone, but there are still applications for which a standalone PDA is useful, although many of those are specialized, and best served by ruggedized devices (such as the ones Symbol and Intermec make) with things like built-in barcode readers. A fair number of standalone PDAs these days also come with integrated GPS.
For the time being, my X5 and X50v still work quite well (the X5 is starting to get old though, and might eventually need replacement) although it is nice to still have replacements available if needed.
Does anyone know if the 111 supports A2DP? Wireless stereo headphones own.
Finally -- PDAs for those of us that don't want to spend $40+ on a monthly plan _plus_ $20+ on a data plan for two years. With free WiFi sprouting up in many places, keeping in touch with one's email is easy with these devices.
I wish that they had priced it in the $200 range, which would have made it a no-brainer. However with the PDA market having such slim offerings, I suspect that HP can name its price.
I think you are totally right, Jagadeesh.
People are making a lot of valid points defending this device's right to exist, but the price factor is the biggest sticking point, in my opinion.
The device is priced at $299 and $399 for the QVGA and VGA versions respectively. That is about the price of a totally unlocked smartphone (sans carrier subsidy) these days.
I remember when people found out how much Apple was spending in material costs per iPod or per iPhone, and figuring it was about half the retail cost of the device... a lot of the same people were complaining here that Apple was evil and trying to rip off the customer... these iPaqs run the same OS as a lot of smartphones, plus use a lot of the same components, but eschew the complicated baseband radio for cellular connectivity... arguably some of the most expensive components on a smartphone today... yet they still charge smartphone-like prices.
I would not be surprised if both of the products above cost HP less than $100 in materials, giving them a HUGE profit margin per each sold. The other side of it, of course, is that PDAs are no longer "hot" devices that is on every consumers wish list (like i guess in the late 90s) so HP clearly won't sell millions of these.
I'd like to see you find more than the most basic unlocked smartphone for $400. Certainly not one that has a 4" VGA screen, dual memory card slots, a high end battery, and cutting edge processor. And actually, a cellular radio is quite cheap these days.
These units don't look like much of an upgrade over my very useful hx4700 which I use to this day. With the recent availability of the WM6 ROMS from the community the device is very much as relevant to me today as the first day I bought it. These new units seem to me a refinement of a solid hardware platform for HP. Somebody can add to this but from what I saw briefly, these 'upgraded' units have more memory and SDHC support. Processor is the same zippy one as my hx4700 and the video performance is probably as good if not better. I wouldn't trade the beautiful 4" VGA screen with any of the current devices from our friends in Cupertino (though I've got those too) or even the vast majority of the dedicated media players.
The processor isn't the same one as your hx4700. It's a generation newer with improved performance, greatly reduced power consumption, and built-in MPEG-4 video decoding.
These devices are not very different than the hx24XX and hx27XX respectively. Granted, they have some newer versions of exactly the same features, and a bit more memory (but you are going to use CF and SD cards to expand anyway).
Also, if you take my experience on them: support is crappy, because whenever I really needed support, they told me to clean reset the unit (and I called support exactly to avoid that). For example, if you use all of the storage in the iPAQ, starts resetting forever (very robust software indeed). If you try to install software from Activesync and something goes wrong in the PPC side of the installation, again, you have to clean reset your unit.
Now, if WM6 improves on these issues, I would expect HP to allow me to upgrade my hx2755 to it, since aside from some details, my devices seems perfectly capable of handling this new OS (I've seen devices with 320MHz processors running it). However, HP's position is that I will have to buy a new 400 bucks device that has almost the exact same specs to solve a problem that should not have been there in the first place. So if you are thinking of buying one of those, just hope no major issues exist right now, because HP probably has no intention of supporting you in the long term.
>>>>>>>>> only support 802.11b :-( thats old
It had b and g compatibility.
but remember it has sdio so you can buy g wifi
Hey, it's like my HTC Wizard... without the phone. Seriously, without the extra phone functionality a PPC is considerably less useful.
If you like losing all your settings and installed software when your PDA runs out of battery, this IPAQ POS is for you. Of course I have a previously top of the line iPaq I'd like to get rid of for even $50.
Seriously, WinCE PDAs were extinct as of 2002.
I'd just like to point out that this is no longer true. As for Windows Mobile 5 for Pocket PC, all settings and software are stored in non-volatile memory, so you can drain the battery dry and when you recharge it it will be as you left it.
Windows Mobile for Smartphone has never had this problem at all.
The assertion that WinCE PDAs are dead is also quite subjective; there are more devices on the market than ever before, and thanks to the help of custom ROMs, older models maintain their relevance.
That ship date is false, it is always +2 of the date you check. Here is a copy of a letter someone recieved regarding the shipdate, after managing to place an order a little back.
Here is what they said:
We are sorry. The HP iPAQ 210 Enterprise Handheld (MFG# FB040AA#ABA), on your order is not yet available. Our warehouse is expecting a launch date for 10/22. We apologize for the inconvenience this is causing you. If you would like to contact a sales rep in regards to another purchase, you can reach the sales department at 800-888-5858.
Unfortunately, due the fact that we cannot fulfill your order, the order will need to be canceled at this time.
We understand your current selection is your first choice and again, we are sorry it's not available.
We look forward to doing business with you again in the future.
Thank you,
WOW that's sexy. Too bad it's just a PDA. Didn't everyone get the memo?
Great form factor, excellent features. I would love to have that 4 inch VGA screen. However, HP needs to put out a version with HSDPA, and if possible GPS. Two of the other new ipaq phones have HSDPA, but their screens are too small.
It's amazing how many of these comments are so uneducated....
Windows Mobile 6 is the latest version of Windows Mobile. Meaning there's actually a real close button, unlike WM5's WM2003-esque close button. Then let's see, this device also has SDHC support, with high capacity support for Compact Flash as well. So we can have about 64GB of storage. As if your oh-so huggly tiny smartphones can do that. Then there's Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, 4 inch VGA screen, and, hmm, oh that's right, the CPU is at 624mhz, unlike many models of smartphones that can't even see that number. So, think a standalone PDA is dead? How about I slam the ideas on the table, people.
This HP 210 is an Enterprise Handheld. That means it is a, and I quote the HP site, "business-class PDA that sets the standard for mobile enterprise computing". This isn't for you salary workers that earn less than $10 an hour, this is for the big wigs and suits that put your salary to shame. Oh, so your smartphone/iphone can do what this HP 210 can do? How about this:
Job: Professional photographer. Camera: SLR or DSLR with Compact Flash memory. Don't have a computer nearby or a large az laptop? Want to preview those pics on a nice 4 inch screen at 640x480? Empty out your CF card into a 32GB SDHC on your HP 210 Enterprise Handheld. Didn't think Compact Flash was still alive? Uber fail. Compact flash is still the choice for high speed photography. HP 210 1, smartphone 0.
Job: Stock Broker. Role: See my stocks all on one screen. Aw, is your smartphones screen too small? Text too small? I don't think there's even a smartphone with a VGA 4 INCH 640x480 screen out there. (here's a hint: the HTC Advantage can trump any device, but it's large and requires a headset to use the phone function. Too bad smartphone fanboys, your only hope was a 5 inch-screened device that required a headset.) HP 210 Enterprise handheld is the way to go, thanks to LANDSCAPE SUPPORT. HP 210 2, Smartphone 0.
Let's try to think on an Undernet-level, and try to dissect these products.
Third party support: Many, many Windows Mobile applications out there to pretty much put your old laptop to shame. There are drawing programs, image editing/image viewing programs, emulators, etc that can't even be enjoyed to their fullest potential on a smartphone. The iphone can now die in this debate, because it's third party support is so lacking I'm not even going to talk about AT&T. Oh, but the iphone has built in storage, why? So that you can fill it up hoping it will never fill up? What happens when your 4GB/8GB has filled up? Can't add anymore storage space because you're sheet out of luck. Think I don't care? My iPod is filled to the brim with movies and songs, and it's a 30GB iPod. Why does it suck so bad? Because I'm stuck to one stupid az video format that even with the best video encoding compression the movies still get to around 300MB, and that's even with a quality drop. This HP 210, on the other hand, not only has a number of third party video players, but the best one, Core Player, can play any known format and best of all, at the time of downloading the software off the main page, it's free. Did I forget to mention that at 4 inches, 640x480 with total memory support of up to 64GB, this HP 210 can kill my 30GB ipod with each byte of space that ipod has? I won't even get into the iphone because at third party support and storage upgradeability, this HP 210 is enough to satisfy me, a crazed gadget enhancer.
Oh, that's right. Seems like the most widely publicized emulator available for the iphone is that now defunct NES one. Right, Windows Mobile can emulate a high number of games, including NES, SNES, Sega MegaDrive/Game Gear, Gameboy/GBC/GBA, and my personal favorite, the Sony Playstation. That's right, PSX in my hand. I know even Windows Mobile smartphones can use these emulators, but they can't use them the way this HP 210 can. I won't even forget that with SD HC support I can fit more than half the PSX library in one card. Did I fail to mention not every smartphone has a touchscreen? And we all know smartphones have a small screen to begin with.
If I didn't even give you a hint as to why standalone PDA's are still alive, then you have officially fallen into Apple's trap of "I want a phone, video player, music player and web browsing all in one!" trap. Why? Because that's what you asked for, and that's what you got. Look how the iphone is now lol, seems like that 1.1 firmware can't get out of the news. Wake up and smell the circuit board people. Your smartphone can't do everything, and you dmn well know that.
I'm a FOREX Trader. Try to keep up, k?
Good commentary. As an owner of an hx2750 (and who bought my wife an hx2795b), here's a thought or two about what you're not getting with the 210. Although since I haven't put my greasy hands on one yet, some of this might be speculation...
You don't get biometrics on the 210. What a shame - that's the only reason I chose the hx2700 units. I could say I wonder why but that would be rhetorical. The hardware integration into Windows Mobile was a horrible kludge and the Credant software as it was implemented on the iPAQ was not the most stable product either.
The 210 doesn't appear to have an infrared port(?)! Well, the SIR infrared on the hx2700 was weak and crippled anyway, so I guess rather than spend fifty cents on better hardware and IRDA licensing they got rid of it altogether?
The 210 is a full ounce heavier than the already somewhat heavy hx2700. Egads.
Interesting, your comment about previewing DSLR images. I tried that a couple of times with my hx but it was intolerably slow. I don't think it was the software though, I think it was slow hardware on the CF slot. Hopefully that has improved? I thought my hx would be handy for transferring data from between CF and SD cards too, but I think they must share an interrupt. Woof, it was slow :-(.
I suspect the HP "enterprise" prattle is just marketing crap. Tell me exactly what the new iPAQs have that make them enterprise -class products? Do they have manageability of some sort? Some special enterprise -class support or business continuity considerations?
True, HP probably won't sell a lot of these, but I'll tell you why I like a dedicated PDA instead of an all-in-one solution: Battery life. With an all-in-one, I have to make sure I don't use up all of the battery listening to MP3s and/or watching movies and/or playing games so that I still have some battery left for actual phone use. I have an iPod. I have a Treo (which acts as a secondary PDA). I have an Axim X50v. Each have their own functions which they individually excel at. That's just the way I like it. It may mean I carry more devices around, but that's fine. If I can have individual devices that are excellent at what they do instead of a single jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none device, then that's the way I'll go. Until a device turns up with all of the features of my Axim X50v, Treo, and iPod, _and_ has good battery life (3+ hours fully taxed) and serious storage (if not a hard drive then dual-card with one of them being SDHC) then I'll consider consolidating my gear. Until then, I'll keep my individual units.
Having said that, this HP looks very nice. Solid-looking, nice big screen, lots of RAM, fast processor with some added graphics capabilities (some of the features of the ill-fated Stanwood successor to the 2700G were piled into the 3xx series, though not 3D) and WM6 native. It's a bit spendy, I'll admit that, but if my Axim ever dies and I need a decent successor, this would probably be it.
Ive been waiting for this for sooo long... WAIT IT JUST GOT SERIAL IR, SWEET
One Question: Does anyone know if the 210's mini usb port would support a flash drive via a mini usb to usb adapter? Thanks.
It looks to be USB On The Go, so yes, it should support a flash drive.
Wow, salespeople really don't like your comments.
But u are right, I got asleep reading all this...
I will tell you do not worry about HP, they do make money. Look, this PDA costs 20 bucks to produce in bill-of-materials while is sold for 400!
When I looked at HP spec on their website I've just completely lost my sleep! Take a look, together with this PDA they sell, for example, 128MB mini-SD flash card for 40 dollars! That's a definition of highway robbery. 320 bucks for GB! Cheapest is 1GB MiniSD for $99, this is still factor 15 to current street prices! Or several plastic styluses for $30. For 30 bucks I would get a truckload of it in China delivered tomorrow :-) Yes, the maker of expensive printer ink, plastic and reseller of flash cards HP do makes money...
But ... I would probably buy it somewhere in Asia in gray market for 30 bucks, just to play, it has nice VGA screen, G Wi-Fi, not super-duper, but also not as bad Marvel chip and nice battery. Bad that it does not have 16meg dedicated graphics memory like some older Axims...Of course you better not to expose this ancient piece in public here in California, in airplanes, parties etc where some may have 3-3.5G Wimax, EV-DO 2-megabit per second smartphones... Still some may really need such PDAs, may be one per 100K-people probably, since I've never seen anyone of our 10K organization ever used PDA lately
"Adama D. Brown @ Oct 7th 2007 10:19PM wrote:
SV, you clearly have no idea what you're talking
about. The raw component cost of the iPaq 210
is probably around $200, not including the costs
of engineering, assembly, testing, programming,
shipment, and retail. Please refrain from being
an idiot in the future"
Wow! This guy locked threads (see above) but I will do respond here.
We clearly have "pro" here on components price, capable also to assess cost of "research" "programming", "assembly". And besides non-idiot!
I understand he can't estimate the drop in component prices but hopefully he can add together numbers. It is easy: they will fall by factor of 2 in a course of a year or so. So in 6-12month in quantities 10K-100K they will cost
$10 processor
$12 LCD touchscreen panel
$5 battery
$3 OS
$20 other components
Note, no fancy screen here, no GSM/EDGE, no 8GB NAND flash, no camera, other fanciest components like proximity sebsor like in iPhone BoM of which in a year will be a half or less of current 200 bucks.
And cost of research? For what, for last century device ?
See upthread.
The link that the story went to has a typo. Other HP pages show that the 210 has b/g, not just b.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/215348-215348-64929-314903-215384-3544499.html
I have been a Palm PDA man for the last 15+ years. I am in sales and have over 1000 contacts stored on my Palm ZIRE 71. I use it mostly for contact ,lookups calender, and memos. I don't want a PDA with a phone,camera,play music, read emails or have bluetooth. . I just need a fast relaible PDA. I bought in the last 3 weeks and returned a Palm E2 and a TX. I'm going to buy and try a HP iPAQ 111. I need a change. Any comments would be appreciated.
I called HP today and they told me the 110 and 210 will not be released until sometime in November. I'm looking at the 110. The size is similar to my HP 4155 (which is getting tired, but has been the most valuable gadget I've ever owned). The 210 is too big for me (similar to the Dell X51).
Just spoke to Nick at HP and he advised me to check the website on Friday. He said the 110's should be available then.
It's understandable that not everyone would be excited about this PDA, but as a doctor this seems invaluable as a device capable of viewing a lot of data (medical ebooks), edit a variety of documents (how easy is this on a touch or iphone?) and play music and videos (on 32 - 64 gig cards - with 2 slots).
Sounds perfect.
And the previous posts make a good point in terms of on going pricing. Blackberrys and iphones require ongoing contracts that are quite costly.
Imagine one of these with 2 64 gig cards? You'd barely need your computer :)
Anyone know of a competitive device capable of accepting large SD cards, editing documents (word etc), viewing pdfs, wireless and internet browsing and playing video and music?
Also, anyone know of a UK date?