Patent investigation could force hard drives off US market

This one's still a ways off, but the International Trade Commission has just launched a patent investigation into five manufacturers that could result in a ban on hard drive imports if the agency finds evidence of infringement. The patents, which are owned by Californians Steven and Mary Reiber, cover a method of using "ceramic bonding tips" on the internal wiring of the drives, and the couple claims Western Digital, Seagate, Toshiba, Hewlett-Packard, and Dell have all infringed by importing the drives. Much like the Qualcomm case, the ITC has a variety of ways of dealing with the situation and the parties have a lot of methods of appeal, but products that infringe on US patents are barred from being imported, so this initial determination will set off a lot of dominoes when it gets made in 45 days. Details are still pretty sketchy on what exactly the ITC is investigating, but we'll definitely keep you updated as we get more info.

Disclaimer: Although this post was written by an attorney, it is not meant to be legal advice or analysis and should not be taken as such.

[Smudded @ Oct 11th 2007 7:30PM]

You've got to be pretty self-centered to want to hurt the market like that for something that's so widely used...

[SteveG @ Oct 11th 2007 7:44PM]

I'm not so sure you understand the purpose of the patent system. You're saying that these people should just forget about the royalties they should have earned from the sale of the hard drive assuming their patent claim is legitimate, just because it will hurt the market?

[Smudded @ Oct 11th 2007 7:50PM]

I do understand the patent system. What I read was that they wanted to stop them from being imported, not that they wanted to collect royalties.

[korey @ Oct 11th 2007 9:06PM]

Well you have to read a little more into it, they want to get what is coming to them. That seems to be the modus operandi, threaten the supply lines and the bank accounts and they play ball. These computer companies aren't stupid, ethically challenged, but not stupid! Instead of losing all their money they pay a settlement to take care of the royalties these guys would have been collecting if all the computer companies wouldn't have been ripping them off in the first place, then they license the patents to said companies and everybody wins. The only way you hurt thieves is to go for the pocket book, as long as it is crystal clear they were infringing on their patents in the first place.

[Smudded @ Oct 11th 2007 9:29PM]

Who says that they're straight up thieves though? Sounds to me that the patent in question is something that was easily discovered. So, my guess is that they didn't steal the technology, they were just using it without knowing it was patented.

[Nick @ Oct 12th 2007 9:10AM]

or as you have been seeing lately with patent disputes.. people in the USPTO office who didn't know up from down in relation to these computer tech topics granted these two people a patent on something that could have very well been common knowledge within the industry. Im not saying these companies are innocent.. but maybe we cant just jump to the conclusion that the patent holder is all clean and innocent either.

[andy @ Oct 12th 2007 9:46AM]

The problem for these companies is that it gets pretty hard to say, "Oh, I didn't know that patent even existed," after you receive a package containing a copy of the patent, pictures of the relevant portions of your device, and a letter detailing the elements of the patent claim to the components of your device. The phone conversations wouldn't help your case for "innocent" infringement either.


Let's just say that the ITC notice is by no means the first contact that these companies have had from these people or with that patent.

[Smudded @ Oct 12th 2007 12:42PM]

Well, look at it this way. If you were one of these companies what would you do? You have a simple and easy part of your products that people are claiming they own the rights to (that you most likely didn't know was patented). Do you immediately stop production and spend lots of money on finding a a different way to make your products, changing the production lines and everything? No, you ignore it and hope it goes away until someone like the ITC steps in and does something about it. Obviously there's way too much here that we don't know to really pass judgment on either party. I think there's a time in the tech world where if you've allowed something that you have patented to become so widely used by major companies, you should just let it be. I'm not saying that you're not rightfully entitled to some royalties (which should be a tiny tiny fraction per product sold in this situation being as the technology seems to be a very simple and small part of the product should you choose to seek out that compensation), but don't just be a dick about it.

[Porfuse @ Oct 11th 2007 7:30PM]

harddrives prices will now fluxuate as the ever SO rare hdd supplies dwindle

[Porfuse @ Oct 11th 2007 7:31PM]

GOD DAMN now i am sad

[Nex @ Oct 11th 2007 8:08PM]

you failed for not only not being the first. but using the annoying "first" comment... your comment doesnt play doom... but if i print it.. it will blend

[Ty @ Oct 12th 2007 1:12AM]

cold blooded

[Tweak13 @ Oct 11th 2007 7:35PM]

Thats ridiculous. HP and Dell don't manufacture hard drives. Kinda weird that they missed Samsung, Fugitsu and Hitatchi. I hope the ITC slaps them in the face.

[John @ Oct 11th 2007 9:20PM]

They can still be *importing* them. They manufacture computers, for which they have to get hard drives for, and those computers end up in the US.

[Andreas van dem Helge @ Oct 11th 2007 10:02PM]

Compaq Computer Corp. used to manufacture hard drives. Compaq was later acquired by Hewlett-Packard. To this day the continue to manufacture SCSI hard drives. Mainly used in HP servers.

[craig @ Oct 12th 2007 12:31AM]

Not that it's in any way relevant, but since when did Compaq manufacture hard drives? The closest they came was when they invested in the Connor startup. On the other hand, HP did manufacture their own hard drives at one time. HP obtained nothing in the way of hard drive manufacturing from the Compaq merger.

Companies like HP and Dell are pursued because that's where the drives land in systems and are sold to end users. In lawsuits, everyone gets sued.

[Jon @ Oct 11th 2007 7:36PM]

Well, now what?

[Reginald @ Oct 11th 2007 7:38PM]

What would happen to the patent if they were both to have an "accident" and did not have an estate or next of kin? Would the patent be nullified?

I'm not implying anything, I'm just saying how do these patents work postmortem?

Because the patent holders were listed without a company name, I assumed they were just individuals and not representing a corporation.

[andy @ Oct 12th 2007 9:55AM]

Intellectual property rights (unexpired patents and copyrights) are intangible personal property. If not designated, they pass with the remainder of one's estate. If you don't have a will in which you designate the remainder, then they pass through the probate court according to the state of domicile's intestacy statutes. That usually means that they pass back to the children in equal shares, to the mother and father equally if no children, or to siblings if no mother or father is alive. There are rules for going beyond that, but it's a very rare case.

[Michael @ Oct 11th 2007 7:39PM]

Bring on the SSD's!!!!

[Matthew Hilario @ Oct 12th 2007 11:08AM]

yeeeeaa! suppppa fast!

[Matthew Hilario @ Oct 11th 2007 7:43PM]

YAAA SUPPA FASTTT!!!!

[Thomas Bags @ Oct 11th 2007 7:48PM]

AAND SUPER EXPENSIVE

[Tavis Veighey @ Oct 11th 2007 7:48PM]

Either SSD prices will need to PLUMIT or the price of computers will suddenly skyrocket!!!


Time to figure out how to raid several thousand 2gig SD cards...

[unkone @ Oct 12th 2007 7:35PM]

Fail.

[i.c. weiner @ Oct 11th 2007 7:47PM]

POTATOES!

[paloooz @ Oct 11th 2007 11:38PM]

Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew...

[Aroura Gate @ Oct 11th 2007 7:51PM]

HOLY CRAP START BUYING HARD DRIVES AND STOCK PILE THEM PEOPLE THE END IS NIE (for these hard drives that is)

[Tristan @ Oct 11th 2007 10:10PM]

CAPITAL LETTERS!!

[Scooby03 @ Oct 12th 2007 6:27AM]

Oh yea must rush out and start stocking up, oh wait i live in the UK.

[Zoesch @ Oct 11th 2007 7:54PM]

This patent is broad enough to cover pretty much any device that needs wire bonding and while it's certainly novel it's basically an improvement on prior art. This could've fallen into the "should be obvious" category but somehow it didn't.

[Mitch @ Oct 11th 2007 7:59PM]

Guess we'll have to bust out those clay tablets...

[Law Student @ Oct 11th 2007 8:31PM]

This is not big news. This is essentially the very beginning of a patent case. Yes ITC cases are scarier than normal district court cases because the remedies are very effective (the customs crushes the devices with steam rollers) and the case is about twice as quick as the district court cases.

However, the decision to investigate is almost meaningless. In just about every case alleging a 337-violation for a patent, and the patentee files a well-written complaint, the ITC will institute an investigation. This is not that significant and does not mean the ITC will agree with the patentee, rather it just indicates that the case has begun.

[Fruition @ Oct 11th 2007 10:55PM]

"...alleging a 337-violation..."

Did anyone else just read that as a 1337-violation?

[wombat @ Oct 12th 2007 9:33AM]

No.

[Thomas Bags @ Oct 11th 2007 8:01PM]

Ya, I highly doubt they will ban something that everyone uses including all companies and the government themselves. They can just say F*** you and your rights and be done with it.

[hsczyrba @ Oct 11th 2007 8:08PM]

Reading through the patents, these have to do with a solder technique as related to soldering IC's. We're talking about a glorified soldering iron which is a tool used in manufacture of the logic cards on a hard drive. So, is a manufacturer liable for a tool bought from an IP offender liable for the offender? If that is the case, we may as well shut down all production of everything ever designed by man and go back to 'Pre' stone age. This is not such a bad idea. Let's start over with this circus ......

[Arochone @ Oct 11th 2007 8:11PM]

Well, I'd miss Seagate, but the other brands we'd be better off without. Especially WD. I've only ever owned two WD drives in my life, and neither of them lasted past a year. Only hard drives I've ever seen fail actually. But as long as Maxtor's still here, I don't really care. lol.

[NoAndThen @ Oct 11th 2007 8:10PM]

It's not going to put us to the 'pre' stone age guys, we have the ability to make hardware here as well you know...

On a side note, WTF Engadget? Why can't we get a reader gathering in Boston?? We love Engadget and aren't feeling the love back...

[killswitch @ Oct 12th 2007 2:25AM]

FYI Maxtor is made by Western Digital. They are just the cheaper option.

[Cagrino @ Oct 12th 2007 6:23AM]

Nope, Maxtor was bought out by Seagate back in December 2005.

[nate @ Oct 11th 2007 8:11PM]

That will never happen.

http://answers.nobosh.com

[JDizzle @ Oct 11th 2007 8:21PM]

Hurry everybody stock up on HDDs!!!

[SpatulaCity @ Oct 11th 2007 9:01PM]

I'm not sure about the specifics of this patent but as hard drives have been around for decades, I think that if you wait too long to enforce your patent, it should be nullified. It's not in te best interest of the patent system to have some guy sit on a patent and wait for some company to do all the hard work and build a successful product line years later only to have the jackass patentholder try to milk the company once the product has become successful.

I think that if you own a patent, and you don't actively do anything with it, it should be nullified.

[Dean @ Oct 11th 2007 9:13PM]

so yur saying if someone stole your idea behind your back and you just found out you shouldn't get royalties? not that that isnecesarily what happened here,but you get the idea.

[steve @ Oct 11th 2007 9:19PM]

you obviously didn't know that the patent had been infringed on, so why should you expect him to? It's not like people check their patents like they do stocks to see of any product started using them that day.

[Masq @ Oct 11th 2007 9:19PM]

Idiot Americans.

Seriously, companies should just stop shipping to your country, perhaps then someone with some intelligence might actually realise that sueing people is NOT a good way of making money and start slapping these moronic lawsuits down.

You wonder why the world thinks you're a bunch of idiots.

[paul34 @ Oct 11th 2007 9:44PM]

Yup, we're all too busy suing each other to get anything done. I wonder how I am writing this comment or how this *American* blog is made?

Must just be another wonder of the universe! Ignorance is something often attributed to Americans, but it would appear you know a lot more about that particular topic than I do.

[Reader @ Oct 11th 2007 9:56PM]

Yeah us stupid Americans. Of course without us you couldn't be making that comment on the internet. Actually you might not even be able to make that comment verbally since we were the first to act on the Enlightenment philosophies and enact free speech.

Though I do agree the patent system is fucked up, there are legitimate claims for patent infringement and this could be one.

[seanchk @ Oct 12th 2007 2:12AM]

The patent system needs to be reworked to stop people just acquiring patents and then waiting for an opportunity to milk them. If these people actually invented the technique then why didnt they sell it or licence it ? How did they get the patent in the first place ?