If you had any doubts about Microsoft's ability to
innovate in the mobile user interface department, here's a new patent application to mull over. Titled "Extensible Filtered Lists for Mobile Device User Interface," the documentation spells out details for improving the way mobile users interact with the data on their devices. Apparently, the app concentrates on arranging information in "groups or lists," each of which can "include multiple items that provide access to data or tasks from multiple applications." Essentially, these customizable lists (more pictured after the break) would allow users to "quickly access relevant content such as commonly used data or tasks," and moreover, it was noted that the items could be "dynamically updated based upon changes in the underlying data or services provided by software applications." On the surface, the details all sound fairly attractive, but feel free to hit the read link for the full rundown.
posted Oct 12th 2007 3:53PM
A lot of people said Vista is just a copy of Mac OS X and I always thought that was bull, but seeing that now, it may be more true. I have an iPhone, and the interface itself looks like a cheap spinoff of it. The picture gallery thingy even looks like Cover Flow.
not to mention that all the e-mails and phone messages there look like spam :)
Not saying they DID or DIDN'T rip off the iPhone, I'm just saying that the filing date of the patent is 6/20/07...
And they didn't think of the interface on 6/19/07 and run to the USPTO.
Believe it or not, someone at Washington could have thought of this interface on his/her own. It woulnd't be the first time someone thought of an idea and was beaten to the Patent Office by someone who had the same idea.
Really all Apple would have to do is prove they thought of the idea first. America is a "first to invent" policy country, not a "first to file" policy country like many others.
"Not saying they DID or DIDN'T rip off the iPhone, I'm just saying that the filing date of the patent is 6/20/07...
And they didn't think of the interface on 6/19/07 and run to the USPTO."
What are you talking about? Apple showed off the iPhone back in January. This is most definitely 'inspired' by the iPhone.
I think Vista was more of a catch-up, in terms of features, compared to OS X. I wouldn't necessarily call it completely copying, but I guess Microsoft felt it had to catch-up in terms of features, and maybe the got a few ideas from OS X.
I think the whole Photo gallery thingy is more of a carousel view, than a coverflow view. Carousel layouts have been here for a long time, and I don't think any company has any ownership to that look.
And does it really matter the way something looks? Functions are just as important! Or what else would you do on your phone?
Ah.... isn't there a John Doe on Engadget?
Anyways, I LOVE this idea... just like the Zune Interface when you think about it..
I've never heard of such a thing !!
What a blatant rip-off of the iPhone interface.
Care to explain to us how it is?
isn't it completely obvious from the supplied bitmap images?
not really.
Yes, and who cares???
So what if the UI is copied, it doesn't not hurt us in any way? adapting other companies ideas and improving them is what makes Apple so succesful- such and the touch screen and Mp3 player.
We are the consumers, and whether we buy their product or not is our choice. I personally would like a device similar to the iPhone that can use 3rd party software, so this may be ideal if integrated well into devices.
And moreover, if ideas we not copied, than we would still be in the stone age.
so stop whining and enjoy have so many good products
i guess i should use sarcasm tags from now on.
@jamma:
Why does it matter? Because it's a PATENT application. Hey, I would love for other companies to make use of new ideas brought forth by the iPhone (as long as those ideas aren't patented by Apple). But don't claim you invented something you obviously didn't, in an attempt to make money off a company who made it popular before you submitted the patent app in the first place.
When will Microsoft learn? When will they stop being a photocopier? This looks EXACTLY like what we already have on the iPhone... redmond = lack of creativity.
Ever used a WM phone? Doesn't look too far off from what its been like for years. Less fayboy-ism plox.
I never mentioned Apple not copying off anyone else :) Its just a matter of who does it better, and obviously that WM Phone (windows media phone? wut?), whatever that is.. failed where the iPhone excelled for anyone to say that apple's is original..
whichever makes the better impression = better. not a fanboy here. just pointing out what I see.. and i see iPhone > WM phone :)
So I see Apple is immune to your criticism where Microsoft is not.
How many phones do you OSX on? ONE. How many phones is WM on? Countless. Yes the iPhone is a success, but to call Windows a failure?
Even at Apples 1 million iPhone sold milestone, WM still out number Apple more than 4 to 1.
"Even at Apples 1 million iPhone sold milestone, WM still out number Apple more than 4 to 1."
So you mean to say that Apple really is doing this great. The iPhone (with a really innovative UI) is out for 3 months a already Apple has a 20% share compared to WM phones. That really good news. This could actually mean that in, let's say a year or so at this rate, Apple could outnumber more than 3 to 1. Boy that would be a laugh. Basically WM sucks. Maybe also OSX on the iPhone (haven't used it yet as it's not yet available, around here (NL).
BTW, this patent filing does really show that MS lacks original ideas.
Last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't produce phones. Apple does... We can argue as much as we want but it will never change the fact that when a company produces both software and hardware, the results (sometimes not good) often give a more seamless experience. Sorry, but I don't want any other third party phones to have OS X on it..
Yes, the unpredictability of "You don't use this feature often enough, therefore, the system will hide it for you". It's worked flawlessly in the abhorrent Windows Start menu, why not put it in a place where spatial memorization of items and icons is paramount?
looks familiar...
This is bull - it's like patenting tabs or drop down lists. It's not even that innovative, the best that can be said about it is that it's a well designed interface. So big whoop - should we all start running to the patent office whenever we think of a new way to use the button or something.
As for ripping off apple, they're not because there's nothing to rip off. iPhone's interface is not revolutionary it's just a well organized interface suited for the platform. If using a similar interface is called ripping off then every website on the web with a left handed menu is ripping off some website that did it first. If somebody came up with a better way to organize or present information it's just common sense to use it. Why rob the customer from good UI just so that nobody can say you ripped somebody off.
Oh heck, you know very well that if MS's next mobile interface didn't take cues from iPhone's then everybody would be complaining that they're using badly designed interface and why aren't they doing what iPhone does.
And P.S. to all the apple fanboys - Apple didn't come up with coverflow, they bought it from a guy that came up with it.
Wow...that has to be one of the better posts I have seen on engadget! I am in agreement!
I completely agree with this post.
+1
Hallefuckingluyah someone with more than 2 brain cells.
@ wrabbit: "And P.S. to all the apple fanboys - Apple didn't come up with coverflow, they bought it from a guy that came up with it."
Oh really? I never knew that Not all Apple fanboys are fucking stupid!
@Lev...
AMEN!
Is everyone going to say every possible low rez interface looks like the iphone? This is a lot more like the action palette things in office 2k7 than iphone's icon interface
Competition for the iPhone and possibly gPhone, bah
@wrabbit...
You know what...even if they didn't invent coverflow (although I am sure they refined to well beyond the original concept) they're still the innovator because they know which designs to get ahold of and how to implement them. No one does all their own stuff...MS outsourced much of the graphics for Vista.
by this fucktarded view, you're innovative by buying a product that uses Cover Flow. Get real, purchasing creativity and being creative are mutually exclusive charactistics!
In other words, microsoft "rips off" the iPhone but Apple is an "innovator" because they "refine" others designs.....
Could you please tell me the difference between what Apple does and what Microsoft is allegedly doing here?
apparently the refresh rate on apple monitors has the beneficial side affect of brainwashing.
Sorry Sam...but you just got your ass handed to you on a silver platter.
It's comments like this that give Microsoft fanboys fodder for target practice.
I bet this peasant doesn't even own a mac. He's all up in arms because people are attacking the company that created his precious iPod shuffle.
Enjoy your Acer, you serf.
At least my apple stock is moving in the right direction! Thank you fanboys and fangirls!
Look, I'm as big of a Apple fanboy as the next person.
But JUST so everyone is clear. Apple did not create coverflow. They bought it from a small start up company that was making a coverflow plug-in.
So before you go and take out your pitch-forks and stakes, Microsoft might have copied coverflow, but Apple essentially...well just bought it from somebody.
Just say'n
They didn't invent plenty. They didn't invent "visual voicemail", they didn't invent a motion-based screen rotation, they didn't invent UIs, Mice (hear that, Steve's keynote?), the iPod's interface, etc, etc, etc.
It isn't about who invents something anymore, especially not an abstract concept like "flipping through folders" or some crap. It's about you, the consumer, getting the most out of it.
Look at the fasion industry: who invents some style first isn't protected by anything, so people keep trying to make something better. Everyone wins except lazy designers.
Nonetheless...
she sure is pretty.
Ok, look, there are only so many ways you can do something. I don't see anything here that is particularly iPhone-esque that isn't an obvious way of doing something. By all means, please point it out to me.
You people run around like Apple invents everything. Isn't it Jobs who loves to say, "Good artists copy; great artists steal"? News Flash - Apple didn't even invent the touchscreen cell phone. How many of you called them on that?
So I don't really care when companies copy other companies, when they try to patent it, that's just stupid.
Does anyone have the Patent application number for this? I am unable to locate this at the USPTO website. If so, can you please post it here as the article does not state the application number, just the title.
There are plenty of prior art implementations of this type of interface in the mobile space by On Device Portal companies.
More than likely this has something to do with Photon which MS was working on long before the iPhone came into play. And in fact, reviewers, including Engadget said it was a radical change in interface. Maybe they can confirm, a note from pocketpcthoughts.com confirmed it was similar to what he viewed of a live demonstration of photon.
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/
It sorta looks usable, although I can't stand that "Today" view that MS is so in love with. It is just another thing MS does that looks like it would work well if it weren't for the fact that I'm not using my computer correctly. Unfortunately, I've learned through the years that there's no way to use the computer correctly enough in MS's eyes that their systems will work as well as they should.
I also have the utmost faith that if MS comes close to making this UI work well, they'll surely ruin it by naming things horribly. I looks at the names of MS products and they almost always end up being so long and convoluted as to take away any emotional desirability of using their products. Even an application with a name so simple as "Word" gets destroyed because MS wants it to appear on screen as "Microsoft Office Word 2003".
Microsoft has become much better with how they name things in recent years, even taking steps to rename existing products. For example, "Windows Presentation Foundation / Everywhere" was a technology that allowed developers to use Vista's new UI language in web-based apps. They recently released a beta of the technology, which I'm sure you heard about. Don't know what i'm talking about? Maybe you know it as "Microsoft Silverlight."
Another example: Microsoft has long been working on a middleware platform for cable and IPTV providers to deliver TV programming. It used to be called "Microsoft TV Foundation Edition" but they renamed it to "Microsoft Mediaroom."
And before this push for catchier names, "Microsoft Surface" might just have easily been named "Multi-finger Tactile Input System".
I think something that you have to understand is that very large corporations make it their duty to apply for patents every time something *remotely* innovative is created. This is protect their Intellectual Property in the event of a competitor creating a product with a very similar interface.
Before anyone on either side of the camps goes off shouting about how Apple were the first to create lists that slide from side to side - stop right there. I've seen people do implementations of the exact same thing with album covers in Flash for over 2 years prior to Apple releasing their iPhone - the concept of cover flow is merely an OSX version of the same in my eyes, so big whoop-ee.
All of these companies borrow ideas from one source or other and rather than leaping to critique Microsoft for doing something similar to Apple - why not applaud just a little bit for not simply sitting down in Redmond doing nothing at all about future Mobile operating systems. Not EVERYONE owns a locked-down iPhone. Some of us do in fact enjoy using WinMo from time to time and enhancements like this are just one more reason why someone could want to buy a Windows handset as opposed to an Apple one.
Copying? Stealing? I don't think so. Call it inspiration.
Browser tabs, button menus, smooth scrolling, folder views, icons, task bar, background wallpaper, themes, etc., etc. all came from some place.
It's a user interface. All art, and design came from some place. Without inspiration, we'd be no where.
And to all the Apple fanboys claiming that Apple invented everything, let's not forget about how the most primative stuff was "stolen" from Xerox.
Xerox created the GUI and mouse responses, window views, and most importantly everyone forgets their contribution to networking.
Without this company, we'd still be typing in Apple II style, DOS commands, and from a UNIX command line.
Xerox PARC appreciation.
Yes, we all should bow to the gods at PARC.
However, Xerox lacked the vision to market any of it, and handed it over legally and willingly to Apple.
Microsoft seeing it and stealing it is totally different than Xerox handing it to Apple.
It's different in the SLIGHTEST in this context. Apple is NOT the God of innovation. Whether you buy or steal it....it was still someone else's IDEA!!!!!
Now, we are not saying that is an excuse to bash apple. We are merely saying that is ALSO not an excuse to bash MS.
So bash not....lest ye be bashed.
*It's NO different* >
Typical wife beater syndrome (apple fanboys), even when apple is giving them the hard and stiff they still find shit to bitch about, why don’t you take apple to task on the closed iphone and stop bitching about who’s copying what.
I’m glad Microsoft is around to stir shit up, because only they have the resource to do so, this just means more options to choose from, instead of a rotten fruit.
…..zune2 rocks!, brown at that
The "Zune2" doesn't come in brown.
By the by, you have no place knocking Apple fanboys if you're a Microsoft fanboy, which you clearly are.
In closing, STFU.
Caught in the trap, I know zune2 doesn’t come in brown.
You made my point stop bitching, about Microsoft and deal with your abuser.
I’m a fanboy of other companies, not just Microsoft, I just don’t buy apple.
Wow.
Just wow.
What kind of revisionist history class did you take? First off, let's make a pledge to cut this fanboy shit out. It's annoying. I'm not getting a check from Apple to defend them, and you didn't select the Direct Deposit option from Redmond either so cut it out!
Misinformed and obviously sophomoronic statements like the above are pretty much representitive of the idiocy that comes from your ilk here at the Engadget Comment Asylum.
Your lame attempt at comedy calling Apple fanboys abused wives is a slight against anyone who's known an abused woman. With that being said, i'm sure the whole "Larry The Cable Guy Gone Tech" routine does wonders in your Summer School intro to computers class, but on a tech website?
Not so much.
I'm sure next you're going to say i fell in your trap. Guess what? You're not smart enough to lay out a trap. Apple ranks above the industry in customer satisfaction, service and demand for the most part. Microsoft is more known for giving their customers the "hard and stiff" going as far as to charge for talking to a tech support rep. But the "hard and stiff" is very subjective to your point of view. I've had great experiences with both Apple and Microsoft products.
Gather your facts, put down the wine cooler and come back to Engadget when you have something more intelligent to say. "Fanboy" was a great insult ten years ago, but now you just look like a pathetic nubile OLPC owner who just discovered Maddox and Dane Cook.
Gee, I hope I didn't hurt your dictionary's feelings with this comment.
At least they're copying GOOD ideas and not bad ones...
I've just sorted the books on my shelf into alphabetical and subject order, making them easier to find. I think I'll patent my brilliant innovation!
Apple isn't always the inovator. I mean just look at spaces, and a bunch of other features in Leopard like the the new dock that looks like Sun's. Spaces is just a desktop manager with a witty name. Gimme a break.
they are not patenting the complete layout per se but the technique of filtering the list, icons, coverflow like items etc...
look at the top of the screen... left and right arrows cycle through filter critera that filter the list below... the list can be in different views.. straight list, icons, coverflow etc.
i'm an Apple fan but Apple doesn't do filtering of list like this.. this is not an Apple copy..
I hope they release Boot Camp for the iPhone.
If you ask me, Coverflow could very well be an Apple copy of "Phodeo" from Longhorn. (http://www.thevista.ru/files/images/articles/pdc2003_review/11.jpg) This was a very intreguing idea, and it's interesting to see Microsoft filing a patent for it for use in a mobile OS.
On the MS copies Apple track, remember that it was Microsoft who announced a desktop applet environment idea first (the Longhorn sidebar). Sure, Apple took more of a Konfobulator-based approach, but even if they had very slight plans of including something like Dashboard into a future OS X release back in 2003, Microsoft's announcement really told them to step up to the plate.
Nice screen cap, yep i think apple did bite that. hehe
Man, that's something I've always thought too!
I remember when they were showing off Desktop Search, at a Longhorn demo, I think a few years ago, and then maybe like 1/2 a year later, OS X comes out with that same feature, and Google Desktop (a rather bloatware version) comes out.
And I'm going, hey, didn't Apple copy that from Microsoft's demo?
But of course, Apple deserves the praise for putting it out "first".
Well anyways, I hardly care about who copies who, but I really hate it when they say Microsoft *always* copies Apple, in terms of some of the latest offerings.
Looks like a rip off of iPhone and coverflow. Can they really patent something already in use?
and I quote:
"The government document has all of the details, but I want to debunk this Digg-bait article: Microsoft is not copying the iPhone as this article tries to imply. It's silly to think that just because the iPhone has a left/right viewing of album art that it somehow equates to what this patent is discussing. I can't go into details, but I've seen this patent in real-life action, and it's absolutely not the same type user interface or navigation that the iPhone offers. What it is, however, is a radically different way of interacting with a Windows Mobile device that I think is absolutely fantastic based on what I saw in an early form. I've been waiting to see this concept evolve, and if this patent is any indication, it's on it's way..."
Good day sir!...I said good day!
All of you saying it's nothing more than an iPhone ripoff need to remember that Apple is Microsoft's product testing division. :)
Interesting discussion! But, I wonder what people literally mean when they say "innovation". I've been in far too many discussions where people throw around terms assuming it means the same thing to the person across the table from them. I looked up some definitions, which ones do people agree with?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+innovation&btnG=Search
This one struck me:
Something new or improved, having marketable potential, including (1) development of new technologies, (2) refinement of existing technologies, or (3) development of new applications for existing technologies.
Is this intended for a MS specific device or a new mobile OS interface ?
Either way, I think it's good news since it will create competition for the iPhone.
Ok...I'm not saying that they copied off Apple...well, I am, but either way, you have to admit, it DOES look like the iPhone interface. Whether or not they copied it is another story, maybe M$ employees are forced to not own anything made by Apple or look at anything Apple, and so this is a completely original idea.
ps: I thought this post was about the new UI from M$, not "A Million (and completely similar) Reasons Apple Fanboys Suck"
Love, an Apple "Fanboy"
actually I find the iphone main screen looks very similar to the palm os main screen.
I'm gonna replace my front door with a new one that has the knob on the bottom left and if anyone else does it I'm gonna sue them for copying me.
Personally it doesn't look like the iphone to me but instead the Zune. I have a question for engadget though...do you know what ever happened to Photon?
http://www.engadget.com/2005/12/08/photon-the-next-version-of-windows-mobile/
Looking at the pics it looks like the interface is very Zune like in it's navigation ... which has by far the easiest navigation of any MP3 player i've touched. It takes like 3 seconds to learn how to navigate/use a Zune. Very simple.
I think you are looking at the new Zune phone interface ... not a Windows Mobile device interface.
Apple zombies (or fanboys) are correct in pointing out the pic viewing part does look like cover flow ... but think about it ... it looks exactly like shuffling through a stack of photos that would be in your hand.
I have read through all the comments posted so far and to be honest, if microsoft got inspiration from apple they are just doing what every other company does.
Let's face it, Im sure one car manufacturer came up with the idea for Remote Locking on their cars... now if you look in any showroom, every car has it... so why is it only when microsoft creates something that 'kinda resembles' something apple did do they get slated for it? apple are just as bad, but are great at hiding their sources for their 'ideas'.
its' funny you know...
cuz after carefully inspect these pictures...
the design is actually worse than iphone's
how did they manage to copy something and make it suck???
ps: I'm a UI designer in Vancouver
Are you commenting on the way it looks or the way it functions? It sounds like you think they are trying to patent the UI, which they aren't. This patent is for "Extensible Filtered Lists for Mobile Device User Interface", which really has very little to do with the way the interface looks. You should try reading a little more rather than just commenting on the pictures...
hmmm... im getting sick and tired of these MS copies apple comments. you guys must be blind, no? cant you see the interface is much like how zune functions? it is an application for a patent so they are registering the functionality of the interface and NOT THE LOOK! how stupid can you fanboys be (before you fan boys flame me look at my previous posts so you'll know i own quite a few macs and an ipod). the UI they're patenting is almost similar to the new zune's. look at the navigation button at the top, it is similar to the zune 2.0 and not the iphone ( and dont come telling i havent used an iphone because i have one). and come on stop mentioning coverflow, do you guys love the coverflow in your ipod classic? because i dont. and functionalities for the images (that you guys are saying coverflow look-alike) isnt even near coverflow. it's a stack of photos, how can you fanboys be stupid.
and to andrew. i dont think you are a UI designer because your comment just sucked. and for the record i am a UI designer too, and i teach one in a university. so stop giving stupid comments (without explaining it) before i teach you how to make an elegant interface.
"He who is most creative conceals his sources the best"
- Chinese Proverb
The Kool Aid coming out of Cupertino must have crack in it or something. I am continually amazed by the near cult-like following that Apple has for it's products.
Look, Apple hardware is nice stuff. I won't deny it. But I do not understand the belief by Apple fanatics that seem to think that all innovation comes from Jobs & Company, and that anything even remotely similar is a copy or a rip off of Apple's idea. Coverflow was not their invention. Touch screens have been around in mobile devices for a really long time. There were plenty of music playing cell phones LONG before Apple even had a prototype for the iPhone. Ditto with mobile internet access on cell phones. Using Apple fanboy logic, the iPhone stole its features from other devices and should be lambasted for doing so.
Unfortunately, this will never happen because Apple can do no wrong in the eyes of the faithful. It's getting more laughable with each product. Pitiful, I say.
did anyone even bother to even read the patent filing. It has nothing to do with the look of the interface, it is about filtering out information that is not needed into more useable list. And BTW i like the today screen on WM phones because you can see a lot of useful info in a small area. It may not look as pretty as iPhone but it is more functional
I dunno - if you strip this down to the numbers/labels it looks a whole lot like the menuing interface on my LG phone.
This actually seems more like a refinement on and expansion of the Zune menu system more than anything else, with the horizonally scrolling header menu.
Its getting more like /. every day. Yes, apple makes some good hardware, and at times Microsoft has come out with a couple of good things. However, This application is a bad patent, as software should *not* be able to be patented. Patents stifle real innovation, as can be seen by the patent troll suing red hat, and the recent Microsoft patent threats.
I don't think this is a "Smart Phone" interface... It looks like it is an interface for regular phones like the Razor, etc... probably based on java, etc...
The guy that invented cover floor released it as a proof of concept for OSX.
But is was up for grabs. Why didn't Microsoft buy it?
Exactly.
Keep smiling
Waddo
Come on, it's not an iPhone ripoff, unless MS in the possession of a time machine. That is a continuation from a patent from year 2005, with the same imagery. If it would be a ripoff, then Apple would have ripped off this, but it's not even that.
The fact is that Apple comes out with a new OS every 10 months or so and Microsoft comes out with one ever 4-5 years or so. Many of the original plans that Microsoft had for Vista/Longhorn was stole by Apple and they just put it out on the market before Microsoft could.
And even if, does it matter? Technology is technology and software is software. It doesn't matter who comes out the something first, as long as people use it and it works the way it supposed to work, who really cares??? I don't spend sleepless nights thinking about whether all the features on my computer were thought of by Microsoft or Apple. Both companies , like almost every other company have a long history of "borrowing" ideas and using them in their products. Its how businesses operate. Get used to it.