British Government to study health effects of WiFi

Normally, the news that a study into the dangerousness of WiFi signals was to take place would provoke groans of disappointment from these pages: however, the British Government's statement that such a study is going to take place is a somewhat calming development. The Health Protection Agency, the group tasked with staging the study, will aim for the study to be "systematic" -- alternatively meaning "final," "definitive," and "complete" -- with all areas of potential dangerousness being investigated, with the opening remarks from the chief executive of the agency including affirmations that no evidence has previously been found that 2.4GHz WiFi frequencies cause danger. Schools will not turn off their routers while the study takes place, and the results are expected to be "reassuring." Sanity has won this battle it seems.

[Jesse S @ Oct 14th 2007 11:27AM]

Lol.

[Trevor @ Oct 14th 2007 12:09PM]

These study are a joke. Radio waves do not cause cancer or other adverse health effects. It is not physically possible. Anything less than UV rays (radio, microwave, IR, Visible) on the electromagnetic spectrum does not have enough energy to hurt you. Stop wasting money on this crap!

[dj-kenpo @ Oct 14th 2007 12:25PM]

INVISDIBLES THINGZ AREN'T THERE, GAWD STUPIDZ> LOLZ.

I love how quickly people dismiss things. smoking didn't cause health issues either, or so everyone was convinced for years, and now there's a new wave of people saying the same thing yet again. the environment is fine, even though we're cutting down all the trees that generate oxygen are being replaced with cars that generate co2. people that question this aren't 'logical' they're paranoid apparently. people convince themselves of what they want to believe. it's as flat as that.

denying things doesn't change the facts, only your ignorance to those facts.
\just sayin. (and before I know the outcome, I have no idea which way it'll go, but I'm not going to say it's crazy to assume something can't do damage. we're not that smart. we don't even understand how AC power works at the end of the day. only that it does. hence why you take AC 'theory' in university. if you don't even know how that works, it's silly to assume you know anything about the steps that come after it.)

[rickane58 @ Oct 14th 2007 1:25PM]

@Dj-Kenpo

Anyone who has taken a college course in science and wasn't wankin off in the background knows that science fact = science theory. Also, we can tell that this isn't harmful based on other scientific facts. this operates in the microwave band, wait hold your horses though. microwave ovens use WAY more electricity than these routers do, they're mostly contained in a small area ( some radiation does leak out at the end), and they are highly highly concentrated. Also, microwaves work by causing fat and water to vibrate, causing them to heat up. SO at worst, you might have a very minutely swollen tummy.

[dj-kenpo @ Oct 14th 2007 2:35PM]

thanks rickan58, of course, your opinion is fact, but only because you referred to me as stupid and apparently wankin off. I stand corrected by your clear superiority. again, why do people that know little about something want to spout off about how MUCH they know.

which was my entire point, that I do not know and thus I am reserving judgment, instead stating I'm annoyed by people who think they're geniuses on the subject simply becuase they've read a paragraph on the subject somewhere.

want to program my next microchip and print my next circuit board for me? I'm clearly not the person to be doing it in comparison to you.

thank you for proving my annoyance.

[Nathan @ Oct 14th 2007 3:08PM]

@Dj-Kenpo

seriously. Just because something isn't fully understood doesn't mean that we don't understand it at all.

There is absolutely no way rays below visible light cause cancer, they aren't energetic enough.

I recommend reading "Voodoo Science" it will really clear up some of the bullshit out there.

Powerlines don't cause cancer, microwave ovens don't cause cancer, wifi doesn't cause cancer.

[dj-kenpo @ Oct 14th 2007 3:15PM]

again... I'm not saying it does cause cancer. or 'they' in your point.
I'm not arguing, I'm just saying theory != fact.

I think this link http://www.myocad.com/HTML_full.php?topicID=3599&table=exposure sums it all up.

[dj-kenpo @ Oct 14th 2007 4:09PM]

@nathan:
it's pretty ignorant to say somethings 'impossible'. how can you say that? (are you that ignorant? or are you a time traveling genius, aware of the outcome of events before they happen)I'm sure everyone who has developed tumors from their RFID implants is pretty pissed off at everyone that said harmful side-effects of rfid implants were 'impossible'. clearly they were wrong, mostly because they made unbacked claims. it takes extended time for something to become clear, not self assurance.

would you say it's impossible to be killed by a pop machine?
the facts are this: more people are killed every year by pop machines than by sharks.
yet you have thousands of people blabbering on about how dangerous sharks are. so either sharks aren't dangerous, or pop machines are forming gangs and hunting down people on the streets. I haven't seen any pop machine gangs, have you?

my point: your opinion on a subject, is not fact. you can say it's impossible for a non visible spectrum to cause cancer, great, what proof or 15 year studies have you yourself done to support such claims. 70 years ago no one would have thought sunlight could cause cancer.

to say somethings impossible and rule out any further thought on something is pretty ignorant. there are a lot of things that cause cancer and how they interact with visible light is unimportant. just because someone says it's safe, does not mean it is, the same as someone can say sharks ate their sisters, brothers friend. they didn't. facts are rarely facts.

[Nathan @ Oct 14th 2007 7:07PM]

@Dj-Kenpo

You are grouping anecdotal evidence of other unknowns and treating them as if they are all equal.
The effects of electromagnetic spectrum are HIGHLY TESTED!

You group Sunlight's total electromagnetic spectrum into the "non visible" spooky rays. BULLSHIT.

No one will argue that UV and higher energy waves have the ability to ALTER DNA!

lower energy waves don't have the energy to mutate DNA, it is simple science.
This subject has been tested, and tested, and tested.

radiowaves on wifi devices are non-ionizing radiation, therefore they do not have the ability to alter DNA.

This is simple science!

all you have provided is FUD and anecdotal evidence (about other uncertainties).
Saying, "what if" isn't evidence.

[dj-kenpo @ Oct 14th 2007 8:14PM]

I give up and throw in my towel, your ignorance or I should say, self assurance that you know everything is clearly over powering.

there are also parts of america that will argue dinosaurs never walked the earth and they are 100% sure of this, the same as you are 100% sure of your opinion. and that's fine, it's yours, do as you will.

[Nathan @ Oct 14th 2007 9:38PM]

@Dj-Kenpo

pwned.

I don't know everything. nor claim to.
Seriously, it is physics 101.
In all seriousness, I know that I can never be "sure" or "absolutely positive" about anything. I understand that science isn't perfect. I understand that all humans, no matter how well intending, are biased.

But, I also know that science is the best thing we have going for us. It has done much more for humanity than credit is given, and it actually explains many many things quite well (though there is much much much more yet to be discovered and understood).

Radio waves have been heavily studied, and the US had some similar fear-mongering back in the 80's and 90's with High Voltage powerlines, A huge amount of money went into a government review of the health effects and it was found to have no connection to cancer.

Just because you can't see it with your eyes doesn't necessarily make it some grand mystery. Radio waves are thoroughly researched (highly measurable) and thoroughly documented as safe and harmless.

p.s. You have compared me to non-believers in the dinosaurs, which i find ridiculous. This is once again sensationalism used to divert attention from the subject of physics and biology and cheapening the argument to the level of "my belief against your belief"... which it isn't... at all.

It seems you are saying, "you can't judge until the measure"
All i am saying is, "they have measured, many, many, many times"
but, i digress...

[Solust @ Oct 15th 2007 1:19AM]

@Nathan

Doesn't everything you say just rule out the possibility of cancer? What if there were to be a different effect?

I'm sure they already figured that cancer wouldn't be much of a problem. I very much doubt that they would plan on studying it anyways.

[Don @ Oct 15th 2007 11:32AM]

DJ-Kenpo, It's people like you that cause us to waste hundreds of millions of research dollars to assuage the fears of the ignorant.

THERE IS NO DANGER FROM RADIO-LEVEL electromagnetism. None. It has been confirmed over the course of many studies, including a 600 million dollar, decade long US study over "power-lines". While people kept blaming the impossible, the real causes of the danger were ignored and underfunded.

It isn't that Pop machines can't cause death. It's just that we know exactly HOW they cause death. The same is true of the EM spectrum. The mechanisms and circumstances under which they are dangerous - like a falling soda dispenser - are well understood, and only ignorant "ANYTHING AT ALL IS POSSIBLE, YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE LOOK THE SKY IS FALLING" people like you seem to think otherwise, and will waste even more money while actual needed research goes forth unfunded because it lacks the paranoia factor you so desperately crave.

[Craig @ Oct 15th 2007 12:33PM]

"we're not that smart. we don't even understand how AC power works at the end of the day. "

Speak for yourself, fucktard.

[Richard Lai @ Oct 14th 2007 11:35AM]

This news is so two-days ago. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how the British taxpayers' money gets us.

[John M @ Oct 14th 2007 4:26PM]

well I think that the rise in autuisim is anicdotialy supported by the rise in wireless communications..it could vey well be that call phones and wireless devices cause irreversible damage to our brains and bodies...again, im not expert but I can see how this technology is actually killing us...dont believe me?...look up autisim stats and you will see a HUGE increase over the last 10 years compared to any other time in the history of humans

[Rainsford @ Oct 14th 2007 8:44PM]

Are you sure that it's not the fact that as wireless communication has increased, so has our ability to diagnose and catch kids with autism? There's no way to know how many autisitc kids there where hundreds of years ago, or how many children died/where killed at young ages and simply written off, unlike today.

[Matt H. @ Oct 15th 2007 7:57AM]

Reply to John M.

The spike in autism is real. I haven't heard of radio waves causing it, but an interesting study lately has found some autism can be linked to wheat and dairy products. This article says more...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/526044.stm

[Richard Lai @ Oct 15th 2007 8:03AM]

Matt H.: I was going to suggest the increase amount of bad food over the years that might have contributed to autism too. My original comment wasn't meant to be sarcastic, but really meaning to see if radio waves do anything to us.

[Louis @ Oct 14th 2007 11:36AM]

Are they going to try to blame their rotten fucking teeth and dying economy on WiFi? Indian food is the culprit. Not WiFi.

[Matt @ Oct 14th 2007 11:41AM]

You're an idiot.

[AdvWar @ Oct 14th 2007 11:45AM]

Dying economy??? Where on earth did you get that from?

[TeddyN @ Oct 14th 2007 11:50AM]

He must be French, he's just sore at having had his ass handed to him last night.

[getz76 @ Oct 14th 2007 3:39PM]

@ TeddyN,

It wasn't pretty, but it puts them in the finals. It should be a nice one to watch, just for the storybook aspect.

[Charles @ Oct 14th 2007 2:05PM]

AdvWar, the British economy is definitely dieing. The greatest contribution to the British economy is tuition fees paid foreign students studying in the UK. The massive tuition fees they pay is based on the UK’s past reputation of excellence in education, however this reputation is no longer deserved. A recent study showed that the average UK university student spends less than half the amount of time studying as someone on mainland Europe. Foreign students are increasingly realising that they are getting poor value for money for their tuition fees and choosing to study elsewhere, hence the UK is in real danger of losing it’s primary source of income.

The second greatest contribution to the UK economy is the financial services sector, but due to the 0.5% stamp duty tax applied to all share transactions the UK stock market is declining in global importance (it’s still growing but at a lesser rate than markets in other developed countries). When investors immediately lose 0.5% of their investment in the act of buying shares it acts as a major disincentive for investing in UK companies and hence foreign companies are choosing to list on other exchanges where their shares will appeal more to investors. Also, financial companies are increasingly realising that people abroad can do the same jobs as workers in the UK financial sector at a fraction of the cost so this too is in decline.

The UK is now in debt to the tune of £1.2trillion (though thanks to the way Brown cooks the books it shows up at less than half this amount) and personal debt is at obscene levels. This is a result of the way the Bank of England creates money out of nowhere in its efforts to manipulate the interest rate and keep the economy growing. The result of this manipulation of interest rates is that eventually the market is due a correction and with debt at unsustainable levels that correction must come soon and it’s not going to be pleasant.

The government can’t even see this coming as they have no clue how to run an economy as illustrated by their recent proposed restructuring of capital gains tax with a single rate of 19% instead of a scaling rate depending on the period of investment. Increasing the capital gains tax rate from 10% to 19% for long term investments discourages investment in UK industry and encourages private equity, venture capital and personal investors to take their money offshore. With significantly less money available for investment in new business and business growth the UK the economy will decline further.

Still at least we can rely on the manufacturing and technology sectors to back hold up the economy. Oh wait, we don’t have any manufacturing or technology companies. Outside of the healthy pharmaceutical and defence industries we have very few companies that actually make anything. The UK’s economy has no real value but is maintained by the perception of value. However, once the inevitable crash comes the true value of the UK economy will be revealed and it will never recover to previous levels.

While I’m said to see my country in such a terrible state I’m not going down with the ship. All my investments are offshore and at the end of the tax year I’ll be joining them.

Sorry, that was completely off topic but I just came back from eating my evening meal and felt like having a little rant before I got back to work.

[dale_nx26 @ Oct 15th 2007 1:11AM]

Wow, that sounds just like the American economy! Not good.

[Terry @ Oct 15th 2007 9:23AM]

@ Charles

I don't know who told you that but its wrong. The UK's economy hasn't been this strong for 150 years and there is no reason for it to slow down by much in the future. How can you possibly believe that ~270,000 foreign students contribute more to the economy than the massive financial companies? Foreign students contribute a negligible amount to the economy compared to the financial services. Not having much manufacturing isn't a disadvantage. All developed economies are moving towards the service sector now because its impossible to compete with China on manufacturing and there is more profit to be made in the tertiary sector(services) than the secondary sector(manufacturing), having more manufacturing just means more jobs are going to be lost when the manufacturer inevitably moves to China. The only valid points you have are debt and tax but thats what you get for having a labour government, both can easily be fixed with a change of government.

[tekdroid @ Oct 14th 2007 11:38AM]

with so much money at stake, i doubt we'll ever see a "it's unsafe, and here's what to do" result.

In fact, it could be a nice way of spending public money to attract even more corporate money and backroom deals to skew the results, as most things are (artificial sweeteners, new pesticides, food additives, almost everything else that enters the market).

Too much money involved, and it's a bit late now, really. Billions of dollars spent on Wi-Fi gear. It will come down to personal choice whether to use it or not, and it's not like you can stop your neighbour from using his.

Which puts the results of any study (if it is a real one) of limited interest to me, personally.

[hh83917 @ Oct 14th 2007 11:38AM]

They can just ban cell phone first before they even look at wi-fi...

[Jolly @ Oct 14th 2007 11:46AM]

when im laying down and put my laptop on my chest. I feel like pooping when i activate my Wi-Fi. :) have a good day!

[Iain @ Oct 14th 2007 11:57AM]

@Matt: I couldn't've put it better myself.

@Teddy: we didn't hand anyone their asses last night - we scraped through, but deservedly so :D

[BigBirdUK @ Oct 14th 2007 4:53PM]

@Iain

I must have watched a different game. We soaked up 40 minutes of the best the French could throw at us, and then slotted the cheese swallowing surrender monkeys in the last 5 minutes. Backsides definitely being returned to owners IMHO!

[Iain @ Oct 14th 2007 5:02PM]

Well, I watched a match which could've gone either way in the dying moments.
A match that had an English try but a more dangerous set of French backs, a match in which the English forwards played their hearts out but their teams never looked as though they were in control, a match that hung on the likes of an excellent tap-tackle.

I also saw a match in which the best kicker on the face of the planet proved why he is worthy of that title - yes he missed a few but he came back, when it mattered, and slotted two kicks with consummate ease to put his side through.

But none of that matters, at the end of the day - we're in the final, something I never once in the last three-to-four years thought would happen :D :D :D

[Travis Bell @ Oct 14th 2007 12:40PM]

Oh crap. Is this why I feel tingling in my balls when my laptop is near?

[Ellianth @ Oct 14th 2007 1:00PM]

No that's the heat. Turn the wifi off and you'll still feel the sizzle. Also if you take a very deep breath you can almost smell the aroma of roast-testes in the air :p.

[Samo @ Oct 14th 2007 1:16PM]

I just thought it was because he was watching pr0n on his lappie :p

[Zorque @ Oct 14th 2007 1:07PM]

I don't know if I believe these people or not. I can hear things a lot of other people can't, but I can't hear or feel Wi-Fi. Still, I think Wi-Fi is more important than a few people getting headaches.

[Travis Bell @ Oct 14th 2007 1:44PM]

(I was just kidding ;) )

[Zorque @ Oct 14th 2007 3:43PM]

I wasn't really replying to you or anything, I actually had only read a few of the comments. I was just putting in my two cents.

[hn333 @ Oct 14th 2007 1:53PM]

Why do people get so upset when anyone says that their beloved technology's might be doing them harm. Why not just be careful? This is the same reason I will never keep a cellphone in my pocket and will only have it turned on when I need to use it. When I think about it I really need to move my wifi router out of my bedroom.

[Nathan @ Oct 14th 2007 3:11PM]

are you serious? give me a break. your cell phone can't hurt you.

[hn333 @ Oct 14th 2007 3:14PM]

Sure you keep tell yourself that.

[nastynards @ Oct 14th 2007 2:59PM]

my wifi is on and my head hurts

[Biggles @ Oct 14th 2007 3:21PM]

Why does anything about Britain turn into a Flame war with American's making rude and uninformed stereotypical remarks about the British. Get over it.

[Sam Winter @ Oct 14th 2007 4:57PM]

because so many Americans are such ignorant morons.. Trust me, I live here. You do realize that 50% of our population voted for Bush for president in 2000 AND 2004. That should tell you MORE THAN ENOUGH....

[yoshi @ Oct 14th 2007 6:26PM]

And the other 50% voted for Gore/Kerry. So I'd say it's closer to 100% of people are ignorant morons (okay, maybe 98%). Sad, but true.

[halkonlar @ Oct 14th 2007 4:09PM]

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!

[BigBirdUK @ Oct 14th 2007 4:57PM]

@Nathan. No, he's right. I tripped on mine in the dark last night and broke my ankle. That REALLY hurt.

[BigBirdUK @ Oct 14th 2007 5:14PM]

None of which I can argue with!

[Sir Snevets @ Oct 14th 2007 5:36PM]

First of all, If you think your precious little technology is doing you any harm you must be a hypochondriac. (maybe us stupid americans need to look that word up)
Second, George Bush was voted in by the smarter Americans who realized he was the lesser of two evils. The headaches are most likely from the brightness of the screen and due to your surroundings. WiFi has always been around, even in prehistoric ages but just recently humans have harnessed its power. Just because