Leopard release: October 26th

If you're one of the many speculating the release date for Apple's next version of OS X, Leopard, you can tick the other 10 of the remaining 11 business days left on the October calendar because it's finally official: Mac OS 10.5 launches Friday, October 26th at 6.00pm, and may we just say friggin finally. Minimum specs: Intel, PowerPC G5, or PowerPC G4 (867MHz or faster) processor with 512MB of physical RAM. $129 for a single-user copy or $199 for a 5-user, single-residence family pack. Upgrade price? You're kidding, right... this is Apple.

[Bob @ Oct 16th 2007 9:04AM]

"The pirce of the FULL (non edu) version of Leopard is still a hell of a lot cheaper than the BASIC upgrade version of Vista"

Leopard: $129.
Vista Home Basic upgrade: $99. $69 on Amazon.

You fail.

[John @ Oct 16th 2007 9:05AM]

I'm sorry but let's get some facts straight here. Home Premium Vista OEM on Newegg is $120. Basic's $95. Let's also note that Apple comes out with OS's a lot more frequently than Microsoft so if you do purchase every single iteration you come out in the same boat in the end.

As for sucking... well, I'm sure you can find people that say the same thing about OSX, Linux, Windows, Kickstart OS, etc..etc..etc.. Just use whatever you like.

[Andrew @ Oct 16th 2007 9:07AM]

I was reffering to over here in Australia. Visa Basic Upgrade is $199 and Leopard is $158

[Adrian Williams @ Oct 16th 2007 9:08AM]

Have you used the new OSX yet ?

[Bob @ Oct 16th 2007 9:12AM]

@bob .........How is it cheaper ?????

[Moff @ Oct 16th 2007 9:31AM]

That's great and all.. But did someone forget the premium you paid for the hardware? They should give away the OS for the life of your hardware (which is not that long anyways).

[slug @ Oct 16th 2007 9:31AM]

@bob

Did you just argue against yourself?

[Sameer @ Oct 16th 2007 9:35AM]

"...if you do purchase every single iteration you come out in the same boat in the end."

why do we keep hearing this line? No offense, but please don't assume everyone buys every release - not unless they see some value in it.

Either way, I'd say incremental benefits would outweigh mega-feature-packed releases every 6 years. Even with that, Vista didn't give me too much to get excited about.

[DAZA @ Oct 16th 2007 9:43AM]

Sorry Andrew, but you fail again. I sell Vista Home Premium at work and the retail price is $199 for the RETAIL, boxed edition. Note, you mentioned Vista Home Basic which is even cheaper. Don't forget that the OS X pricing is USD too. Vista HB can be found as cheap as $110.95 from http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=vista+home+basic+oem . VHP can be found as cheap as $132 from http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=vista+home+premium+oem .

[Bob @ Oct 16th 2007 9:45AM]

@bob and slug:

It's called quoting. You can put text from the person you're replying to between quote marks, and then comment on what he said. But, take note! If you quote someone, that -doesn't- mean that you agree with them.

Quoting. You should try it some time, it's all the rage these days.

[Quix @ Oct 16th 2007 9:46AM]

Sadly, Bob, Vista Home Basic ≠ Leopard. The equivalent version of Windows is more expensive than Leopard. The equivalent version of Windows *with upgrade pricing* is more expensive than the non-upgrade price of Leopard. You may have proved Andrew wrong, but your point is still moot.

Sorry, Microsoft Bob. *You* fail.

Ironically, you never hear the Apple haters complain about Microsoft's overpriced software.

[Andrew @ Oct 16th 2007 9:49AM]

I stand corrected...I had my facts slightly wrong...but that doesnt mean it is not a stupid comment still. Leopard cant even be compared to the mess that is Vista...and the above point is right, the equivalent is far more expensive.

Debate over.

[Bob @ Oct 16th 2007 10:28AM]

@Quix: I never claimed that Vista Home Basic is the same as Leopard. I merely proved that Andrew's claim, that Vista Basic Upgrade is more expensive than Leopard, is false. And you apparently agree with that, so why that makes me fail is a mystery to me.

I realise that you're trying to drag this into a fanboy flamewar, but there's no point. I couldn't care less about Vista or Leopard. Perhaps next time you could adress those people that actually claim either one is better.

[something @ Oct 16th 2007 9:02AM]

Anyone notice the "EXTREME" in the graphic? Could they be poking fun at us?

For those who don't know what I'm talking about...
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/02/iphone-extreme-listed-in-apple-code-say-it-aint-so/

[Addy Osmani @ Oct 16th 2007 9:03AM]

True as that may be, here's a little fact for you: All Universities signed up to the Microsoft MSNDAA program can get nearly EVERY Microsoft product (Vista Premium, Windows XP etc.) for FREE. All you need to do is walk in to your local Computer Science Department and they'll sort you out.

I've worked for Microsoft before and it's just the case that many student's don't know about this fact. Let's see now...

Price of Vista for a student: $0.00
Price of XP for a student: $0.00
Price of Leopard for a student: $119.

and you were saying, what now?

[marklar @ Oct 16th 2007 9:15AM]

we're saying as students that we would rather our colleges pay for osX and get a decent system, than vista and face all of the complexity of loading drivers, security worries, viruses etc

[Brooks @ Oct 16th 2007 9:16AM]

Just because they don't list the edu price here doesn't mean we won't be getting one. I've already spoken with the software sales at Indiana University and they plan on selling 10.5 for $69.

And not all universities let XP & Vista go for "free", per se. Most charge in the $5-$10 range. Well, I can speak for Purdue and IU. Still though. A discount is a discount, and nobody can argue with that.

[Addy Osmani @ Oct 16th 2007 9:24AM]

You do have a valid point, Marklar. For the average user that would like to update to a new (or different) OS, Vista doesn't always make the cut. For users who do know what's required to use it and don't have hardware that's a few years old - it really does work a treat.

However, based on my own experiences, if this isn't the case - Vista can be one heck of a challenge to get to grips with. From a student perspective I imagine that most would like to just install an OS - be able to use their old MP3 players and printers and simply have the ability to create presentations and assignments out of the box.

This is one of the reasons I'm glad Windows XP is still being provided for free as part of the program. Universities aren't *supposed* to charge anything for MSNDAA licenses...but $10 is still a pretty great bargain. For students in the UK, I think that this charge is largely subsidized by the University.

[Rocinante @ Oct 16th 2007 9:30AM]

Yes, and that is one of many underhanded ways on how MS got their marketshare.

Underhanded you ask with benign bewilderment?
Yes, underhanded. Apple attempted to set up a similar program with schools before the Mac existed (early 80s), and it was fought by Microsoft and others (who had a small marketshare compared to Apple)due to Apples position in the market, and that it would give Apple an unfair edge since schools would be getting free computers, no one would use the ever lovely super user friendly DOS. Then, people go on to buy the computers they use in school, when they are out, and you get the picture. If you don't, just take a look at the Windows base.

Fuck Microsoft, an OS made by assholes for assholes.

[Miguel Marrero @ Oct 16th 2007 9:36AM]

Not to mention that if the company you work for is under the "Software Assurance" program, you can get all sorts of MS software on the cheap.
Example: MS Office 07 Enterprise for $22 including shipping.
MS Projects $22 including shipping
Ask your IT dept. about it... ;)

[Benson @ Oct 16th 2007 9:50AM]

Re: charging for MSDNAA licenses. If its the same as my university, they don't charge for the licenses. They charge for the media and replication costs to hand you a copy. Legally, I suppose it would be sort of alright to get the license free and go download .iso from a russian "software backups" site. However, I strongly suspect they will simply refuse to sign you up and get you the license if you don't pay them 10 bucks for a CD-R.

[Addy Osmani @ Oct 16th 2007 9:55AM]

Rocinante, let me get this straight....helping students without money out and providing them with a completely free (or very cheap) OS is considered underhanded?. Microsoft don't force anyone to continue using their products in the future - if you want to go for something else, you're completely free to.

Apple is one of the largest corporations in the World (and as can be seen by their success with the iPod) - if they want a product to get out there and be successful, they more than have the means to do so. I just find it a little hypocritical that they would charge *less* for a student version of their OS for any reason other to the one Microsoft's doing it for.

If you want to take a pessimistic view of these schemes - then look at it from even the most pessimistic of positions: Microsoft is releasing the OS free or very cheap to expand their future market share. Apple is releasing their OS for a discount price to expand their future market share. I can't quite see the difference in strategies here...

Other than Apple is trying to make a profile off of students, of course.

[Addy Osmani @ Oct 16th 2007 9:57AM]

**and by profile, I mean profit :d

[Chris @ Oct 16th 2007 10:59AM]

Actually, I can't (or couldn't even when Vista was out) buy a full version of XP here at the University of Chicago. I would have to go out and get a full version. If there is a place where I can get that $0.00 cost XP I would love to find it.

As for OS X sucking less than Vista we don't know just yet do we? Much of the complaints regarding Visa are due to the little snafus (like lack of driver support, etc.). With the kind of shoddy and shady stuff Apple has been releasing of late I can't be confident any longer that their stuff will be wonderful out of the gate. I just bought a Mac Mini on the 26th and had to take it to an apple store where it was replaced because it has some defect that would not allow it to be upgraded.

Furthermore, though I missed the cutoff date by only a few days I am not even that upset. What does make me leery these days is that now that Apple seems to be back in favor (insomuch as the word "beleaguered" does not seem to follow the word Apple in print anymore) they seem to have tuned into a money sucking machine. Imagine my surprise when I make my appointment and arrive an hour early to find that others are jumping in front of me to get to see a "Mac Genius". I ask if I had inadvertently missed my name being called. I was informed that I hadn't. THe "genius" who told me that my name had not been called then makes an offhand comment to one of the "Geniuses in training" standing next to him that there are actually two lines. I guess since he knew I was sitting there and could hear him he then had to address me and and informed me of the existence of a paid program whereby once can jump the line at any time. OK so this is America I get that but when he asks if I want information on how I can pay Apple more money to jump the velvet rope I lost it. He did not even have a chance to finish turing around to get the brochure before I told him NO! Understanding that I was upset he then tried to "explain" that he was only trying to give me information. Again, before he could finish I said NO!!! This kind of attitude seems to be replicated in their "new" student pricing schemes. Who knows, perhaps Apple was undercharging for their student licenses. But I noticed that when iLife was released this summer they started charging more for students. Now students get a generous $10 discount (I believe the student license is $119 correct???). Let's not mention the various permutations of the iPhone debacle. It all is becoming quite distressing to me.

Let's home with all of these recent problems the words "Apple" and "beleaguered" don't again become linked in print or the mind of John Q.

[Rareexample @ Oct 16th 2007 11:50AM]

Vista comes with a cost, a nightmare of dealing with a Microsoft application riddled with bugs and zero usability.

You get what you pay for.

[Addy Osmani @ Oct 16th 2007 12:32PM]

I would hardly call Microsoft's applications completely riddled with bugs. Agreed, with Vista you don't get perfection - but most if not all of the applications Microsoft release (outside of the OS itself) are quite sturdy and dependable. Office is still going as strong as ever despite the availability of open-source alternatives and I know for a fact that things like Sharepoint and Powerpoint rarely get accused of being riddled with bugs.

[something @ Oct 16th 2007 1:02PM]

I attend the University of Louisville and both XP and Vista, as well as a long list of other Microsoft products (including Server and SQL Server :D) are available for absolutely free if you download it directly. There is also an option to "check-out" a disc from the office or to purchase CDs (official Microsoft CDs, hologram and all, not CDRs) for 5-15 bucks. I suggest the rest of you complain to your school's IT departments.

[Khattab @ Oct 16th 2007 9:07AM]

Price of most Office Programms for Students - $/€ 0,00 (here in Germany)

FYI...


Au revoir...

[zsxzsx @ Oct 16th 2007 10:27AM]

Not quite as exciting, but anyone who works for the NHS in the U.K. can get a copy of MS Office Enterprise for a very palatable £17.

[j0x0r @ Oct 16th 2007 9:13AM]

I'm a bit saddened by the UK price... £85 for a single license, and £129 for the 5 pack.
I would like to pay for the upgrade for two reasons: a) I'd like to stay legit, b) I'd like to repay Apple for their efforts. But £85 is an MP3 player, or almost a PVR. £40 would have been more reasonable. Especially as the 5 pack license is £25.80 per seat. That's really fair. But the single license really isn't.

[uberfu @ Oct 16th 2007 9:15AM]

Seeing as how the Main Page of www.apple.com now sports a shiney new countdown clock - that might give us a clue as to when Leopard is coming to bear_

Ya think ?

[Bob @ Oct 16th 2007 9:15AM]

Get LINUX

[BOOB @ Oct 16th 2007 9:48AM]

GET ALIFE!

[kpfeif @ Oct 16th 2007 9:48AM]

I have. Several times. It's a pain in the ass. Wireless drivers? Ugh.

[Lein @ Oct 16th 2007 9:16AM]

Let's not forget the "Ultimate Steal," for student's with a campus (.edu domain) e-mail address, which gets them Office 2007 Ultimate for what, 60 dollars? Isn't that somewhere between 75% and 90% off retail?

As for Leopard, I find the minimum specs amusing. I wonder how poorly it will perform on such a rig in comparison to how poorly Vista performs on equally aged hardware.

Not to say I'm not a potential customer for a new machine with this software on it (if for nothing more than to get out-of-the-box suppport for XP.)

All I'm really waiting for now is a standard Macbook model with "real" graphics, not Intel Integrated (isn't Dell cramming GeForce 8400m in their 13" model, which is, for all intents and purposes, smaller and lighter than the macbook?)

And a design of said new Macbook being based on the new imac would be nice, too.

[Al @ Oct 16th 2007 9:37AM]

Actually it'll probably run fine on the older hardware. Unlike Microsoft Apple normall y make their OS faster with the upgrades and I was able to run the last version fine on an old iBook G3 - only missing out on some of the flashier graphical effects.

[Zadillo @ Oct 16th 2007 9:44AM]

The 8400M GS is an option on the XPSM1330, although it adds to the cost - otherwise it has a GMAX3100. The Sony SZ series offers switchable graphics between a GMAX3100 and 8400M GS.

Both of these machines will typically cost more (although an XPSM1330's base price can be made cheaper with the lowest possible CPU config, etc. which isn't an option with the MacBook). Either way, pretty different markets/machines.

I think Apple will most likely stick to integrated graphics only for MacBooks, as I think this is one of the things they use as a differentiating factor between the MacBook and MBP.

[AZ @ Oct 16th 2007 9:16AM]

yup, that is right. I got Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise Edition and Vista Ultimate for free from my school. They even give out the Mac version for free. I feel bad for all the school kids who think they are cool with their macbooks, but then again, paying for overpriced hardware deserves a expensive service pack as well.

[Geoffrey Sperl @ Oct 16th 2007 12:42PM]

As an IT professional in a large university, let me share a secret with you:

You didn't get it for free. You're paying for it in your tuition and fees.

And if you are using student loans to pay for your college costs then the interest that will accrue on top that will lead to your costs as being anything other than "free."

[rzlmlchm009 @ Oct 16th 2007 3:02PM]

That's too bad then, because at my school, my tuition costs aren't any more than the other students. However, only the CS students have access to download Vista Business from the MSDNAA site. Which means that I don't pay more than everyone else, but I get the benefits.

[Michael Leung @ Oct 16th 2007 9:16AM]

Yes! I've been waiting for an OS like you...

[NG @ Oct 16th 2007 9:17AM]

no student price? thats crazy

[kkdool @ Oct 16th 2007 9:17AM]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/ for free upgrade

[Rich @ Oct 16th 2007 11:43AM]

Anyone know if there's a UK version of this? There doesn't appear to be anything on the UK Apple site. Hmmm, my reseller convinced me 2 weeks ago that I'd be okay...

[travistaylor @ Oct 16th 2007 9:18AM]

Grrr...$116 for the student price. I was really hoping for the $69 that Tiger used to cost...aw well.

[Luc @ Oct 25th 2007 2:51AM]

I went to my campus bookstore today and they say they're selling it for $69 next week Monday on the 29th. I didn't believe what I heard so I asked again. Sure enough, they repeated, "it is $69 for the Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard operating system."

[Palmerized @ Oct 16th 2007 9:18AM]

Hey check out the new default desktop wallpaper - no more aqua blue! Was wondering when they were going to get rid of that. This new space design is used in all their promo screenshots.

Very nice!

Anyone have this wallpaper yet?

[Jason @ Oct 16th 2007 9:19AM]

Shame on Apple for charging so much for a pretty significant upgrade to their OS. They should give it away for free like Microsoft does, I guess. I wonder why they need activation if it's so easy to get their office software and OS for nothing? Why would they care about piracy? How does Vista Basic compare to Leopard in terms of features and what you get for your money?

These arguments are pointless. Leopard is finally going to be released. Good for Mac users. Shouldn't be an issue for Windows users.

[len @ Oct 16th 2007 9:20AM]

Meh. I think I'll celebrate by finally installing XP on my MacBook. Mac OS X is cool from a programming standpoint, but the UI is annoying, and it looks like they made it more so. It's Apple Vista!

Like classic rock, user interfaces achieved perfection in the Win 95 / OS/2 / Nextstep era.

[bkndaday @ Oct 16th 2007 9:48AM]

I bet you sport a mullet too...