Microsoft moves to withdraw appeal in South Korea antitrust case

It looks like two rejected appeals in as many months may have been the limit for Microsoft, as The Wall Street Journal is now reporting that company has decided to drop its appeal in a South Korea antitrust case that dates back to February of 2006. That case, which centered on the always popular issue of Microsoft bundling software with Windows, ultimately ended up with the country's Fair Trade Commission slapping a 32.5 billion Korean won (or $35.4 million) fine on Microsoft, which it'll now presumably have to cough up. What's more, according to the WSJ, the FTC also required Microsoft to provide two separate versions of Windows, including one that drops Windows Media Player and Windows Messenger all together, and one that includes links to websites for competing software to those applications. Not exactly the solution it was looking for, to be sure, but at least Microsoft has experience with multiple versions of Windows.

[EngadgetFanBoi @ Oct 16th 2007 2:33PM]

Why exactly doesn't Apple have this same case filed against them? Is it because their Operating System is designed for their hardware exclusively?

[N30 G30 @ Oct 16th 2007 2:56PM]

Well software is different. There are other media players that can work with OS X.

I still don't understand why Microsoft is constantly picked on. Doesn't all OS packages install their own software? You can uninstall or just not use the software that's built in.

I think it's a God send that OSes have browsers, any browsers built in. Whether if it's safari, firefox, or internet explorer it's great just getting a computer and being able to just get stuff from the net without an extra disk.

[Leon @ Oct 16th 2007 3:00PM]

You can't uninstall IE, Messenger, or Windows Media Player. Not without going through tons of loopholes anyways. You can't go to add/remove programs and uninstall them.

[IndiaTech @ Oct 16th 2007 4:42PM]

In Mac OS, iTunes and Safari can be uninstalled "completely". Just drag and drop the application packages into the Thrash.
In Windows you can't do that. The IE and WMP code is built into the Windows Code. That is they are very much part of the OS. For EG, Windows Explorer or File Borwser depends on IE while the part of code which generates Thumbnails for vid and pic files depend on WMP. If IE and WMP are removed completely then the OS will crash! That is why Microsoft likes to refer them as IE / WM "Technologies" and not "Softwares".
The European N version basically strips the front end of IE and WMP but the code is still present in the backend or OS source code.

[Wesburl @ Oct 16th 2007 2:53PM]

Sorry to be off topic, any news from the *Let Engadget Trick out your home Theater!* front? I would like to know who the lucky duck is... If so where do I check?

[Leon @ Oct 16th 2007 2:57PM]

I'm no Microsoft fan. In fact I use a Macbook. But how is any other operating system different? OS X comes bundled with iChat, Quicktime, Safari, etc. KDE and GNOME on Linux both come bundled with things as well. So what exactly is Microsoft being scapegoated for?

[Leon @ Oct 16th 2007 3:00PM]

On second thought I realise it is also true that they make it pretty difficult if not impossible to uninstall IE, WMP, and Messenger.

[N30 G30 @ Oct 16th 2007 3:05PM]

I never really uninstalled anything on a Mac before. Is it any easier to uninstall OS software from a Mac?

and yeah, IE is impossible to take out of Windows. WMP is near impossible. Messenger is easier than you think though. (or it's just hidden. bleh.)

Like I said, I'd be pissed if an OS package didn't come with a browser.

[Joachim Bengtsson @ Oct 16th 2007 3:34PM]

N30 G30: You drag the app to the trash can to uninstall it. Leaves some files for big apps like GarageBand and such, but works with most others.

[Tim @ Oct 16th 2007 4:00PM]

Actually it is very simple to get rid of anything that comes with windows. Go to Control Panel > add or remove programs > Add/Remove Windows Components. there is a list of all components you may or may not want. I remove MSN Explorer, outlook express, and windows messenger on every install I do. Windows media player and Internet Explorer are in there as well.

Simple.

[Scott Miller @ Oct 16th 2007 3:56PM]

QuickTime is part of the OS, QuickTIme Player is an interface to the system components. You can toss Quicktime Player, Safari and iChat (plus most other "bundled" Apple software) and use something of your own choosing, with ease.

The reason M$ is in tis situation in the first place is because their bundled software sucks and people had a very hard time using something of their own choosing.

Ask most apple users and they will tell you that Apple's applications are easy to use and stable, but not perfect for everyone.

[Leon @ Oct 16th 2007 4:09PM]

Tim,

I believe these law suits are regarding older versions of windows. Versions that did not have the feature to remove bundled Microsoft software such as IE, WMP, and Messenger.

[N30 G30 @ Oct 16th 2007 4:27PM]

Thanks Joachim Bengtsson.

I learn something new everyday.

+1 for you.

[John @ Oct 16th 2007 4:55PM]

To Scott Miller, I'm not sure what a "hard time" you're referring to. I'm running Firefox, AIM, and foobar2000 right now, and have been running them for a week straight (well, not Firefox, due to to its memory hogging, which has gotten a few re-openings). Not once has a window popped up telling me to start using IE, MSN Messenger, or WMP. I in fact stlil use WMP to play video files because it's a useful app. I used IE to download firefox, which I then used to download fb2k.

So, where's this difficulty I should be having?

[Scott Miller @ Oct 17th 2007 9:06AM]

If I do remember correctly, this all started with Windowz 95. Are you using Windowz 95? I'm sure that MS has made it a little easier to remove programs in XP and Vista to satisfy the government. But can you remove IE, WMP, MSN. and how easily can you remove them.

[energyvortex @ Oct 16th 2007 3:37PM]

Just another example of targeted justice in my personal opinion.
Remember people, if you run a successful company, and have a widely adopoted product, all it takes is a few whiners to file suit to get the government to force you to alter your entire product so that others can compete with you better and take away more of your market share.

Pathetic. I eagerly look forward to the day that (cr)Apple comes under this unfair scrutiny. What's it been? 9 years of legal molestation for the company? Sheesh.

Yes I'm an MS fan. No, I'm not an Apple fan, but that's mainly due to the elitist attitudes their customers have.

[Tanner @ Oct 16th 2007 3:54PM]

The big difference with what apple bundles with their computers is that you are not forced to use it. If you want to un-install it just drag it to the trash. If you don't want the web browser, just drag it to the trash, if you don't want iTunes, just drag it to the trash. I have tried many times to get rid of IE or Windows Media player on Windows and let me tell you, it is not a realistic goal. Apple also hasn't been known to make competitors products work worse on the mac than their own products, wheras microsoft has done that and has been caught doing that on many occasions. That is why microsoft is getting into hotwater and people are taking them to court. If microsoft was just a popular company that succeeded on their own merits there would not be these kinds of issues.

[michael @ Oct 16th 2007 6:26PM]

@Tanner:

"Apple also hasn't been known to make competitors products work worse on the mac than their own products, wheras microsoft has done that and has been caught doing that on many occasions."

Can you give any examples where Microsoft has done that? Everything that I place on my computer works the way it came.I don't see Microsoft putting some code that dumbs down other software.

As far as I know, Microsoft doesn't do that at all.

[Thomas Zhao @ Oct 16th 2007 6:58PM]

Actually, that only removes the shortcuts to the programs,not the programs itself. You can see because it says "Adds or removes access to Internet Explorer from the Start Menu and Desktop".
Have you wondered why it's listed as 0.0 MB?

[greg @ Oct 16th 2007 4:11PM]

I think M$ should not have to pay the fines until the countries fix the piracy issues. Or, everyone can walk away and call it even.

[Nilay_deleted_my_posts @ Oct 16th 2007 4:14PM]

Okay, rehashing the stories for those not clear:

1. Microsoft, despite its name, was and still is the monopoly in desktop OS market.
2. MS didn't _just_ bundle the its own softwares (IE, messenger, WMP), it also made it difficult to remove them and, most importantly, made it difficult to other company's software to work properly within Windows.

First point is important. If you are just a small player in the market, there's no problem with bundling as much crap as you want. But, you cannot use your market dominance in one area to force unfair tactics in _another_ market, which they were doing with IE on Windows.

Second point is also important, because the problem isn't with bundling so much, but that they deliberately made it difficult for Realplayer, Java, Quicktime, etc to work in Windows. It used to be the case that the default web browser was IE, and you couldn't change this at the deeper levels until SP2. Same with Outlook Express for mail. This was not nice behaviour, even if you are not market leader, and especially not nice when you have 90% of the OS market.

There may be other points to this...

[James @ Oct 16th 2007 4:40PM]

Uh, could you cite any evidence at all of #2 happening in the last, say, half-decade? As a developer that writes software for Windows systems, I can safely say that Microsoft goes to greater lengths to supply API documentation than any other company I've ever worked with. Just because they don't hold your hand and write "For Dummies" tutorials on how to e.g. change the default web browser, doesn't mean they intentionally hamper competition.

As for making it impossible to uninstall certain software, I have yet to hear of a case where they make it hard to remove something that isn't tied to a part of the core operating system. You can't totally remove IE because the rendering engine is used by Windows Explorer for both the file manager and the desktop renderer. You can't remove Windows Media Player because the engine is used to allow previews of media files in the file manager.

The closest I can come to thinking of an example is that you can't totally remove Outlook Express or the Address Book that goes with it, which is kind of a pain. It's really not that big of a deal, though, because you can use the Internet Options dialog to change the default handler for mail, news, and contacts to anything else you install (that knows how to register itself properly -- see my 1st paragraph).

But that's beside the point. The few components that are hard to remove from the OS are very easy to *ignore*. Just delete all your shortcuts to WMP, IE, OE, and the rest and update your default programs to handle the content they were associated with, and you'll never even know they were there. IE, OE, and WMP each take up at most a few tens of megs (about 0.1% of an average hard drive). I like to think of them as the "spare tire" of the system -- I don't think about them most of the time, but they're there in an emergency (e.g. if Firefox has a heart attack or something).

Perhaps the most telling part is, there is overwhelming evidence that nobody *wants* a version of Windows with less stuff in it. In Europe, the "Windows N" version has sold about as well as shit-flavored Doritos, because the only people interested in stripped-down Windows are people trying to make a point. I think it's just whiny loser companies trying to abuse the legal system and strong-arm Goliath into submission.

[cdman98 @ Oct 17th 2007 3:48AM]

Lets see with Vista anti virus company's were locked out for "security reasons".
Same with Google and adding Google desktop search to Vista.

Thoughs are just the two highest profile cases of Microsoft shuting out companys from competing with there products (defender and the built in search)

[robbyrob @ Oct 16th 2007 4:17PM]

MS till today is still the biggest monopoly in the computer industry period!

http://www.spymac.com/details/?2284071

[John @ Oct 16th 2007 4:58PM]

You can't be the "biggest" monopoly. You can only be THE monopoly. That's the whole point, really...

[insertAlias @ Oct 16th 2007 5:33PM]

@John
He's just a jackass posting barely relevant comments so dummies will go to his spymac page. His opinion doesn't matter. Don't bother correcting his stupidity.

Everyone, please don't click his link, and Engadget, please ban this asshole and all other assholes who do posts like this.

[Spartacus @ Oct 16th 2007 5:03PM]

"One MILLION dollars!"
"Uh, sir, we make more than that in a day from our legitimate businesses."

I think someone forgot to tell South Korea their exchange rate sucks. I'm surprised Microsoft even appealed. They probably paid the lawyers more than $35m just to fight this.

[RyanTV @ Oct 16th 2007 8:37PM]

I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, but this is just ridiculous. I say that Microsoft tells them to shove it and remove their presence in South Korea altogether. If those ungrateful little wanks can't figure out how to just install a competing piece of software and make it the default like all the rest of us do, then forget them. Let them have fun installing apps on Linux.

[Frank @ Oct 18th 2007 12:38AM]

I reported robbyrob over at spymac for violating the rules of their contest by spamming.

Robbyrob, wheat you're doing is spamming. It's not welcome here.

Here's his insightful comments:
http://www.blogsmith.com/profile/1339888/

Every one of them I looked at so far contains his "signature".