Nokia's S60 Touch Interface announced
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Oct 16th 2007 7:24AM
posted Oct 16th 2007 7:24AM
Update: The press release is out and with it, more information about the new S60 software: existing S60 3rd Edition apps will run on touch-enabled devices unmodified (but can be further enhanced, natch); generic proximity and light sensors supported; a UI Accelerator Toolkit enables "impressive" graphical effects; and Flash Video will be supported in the S60 web browser. Available to S60 device manufacturers "during 2008." A bit more specificity please, Nokia?
Read -- S60 Touch Interface launched
Read -- Nokia PR
I'll pay £1000 to charity if no-one else mentions iPhone in their comment...
LOL, if I believed you I seriously wouldn't mention the jesus phone...but since I don't, I will...
I'm a mac user in the UK and looking forward to iPhone...but this thing looks niiiiiiice! If it has more power than the underwhelming N95 then it looks good! Even if it shares a few similarities with another popular device...
iPhone, iTouch, iTouch me, whatever, Apple is a monopoly that needs to be stopped. Good for Nokia, i can't wait to see their new phone. iTouch alternatives are there, you just have to look:
http://www.mp4nation.com/products/index.php?PID=onda
Don't most portable touchscreen devices, ie, current PDA's and Smartphones accept both finger and stylus input? Although the haptic feedback seems very cool, no more guessing if you pushed a button or not.
ipone. almost said it.
iphone ha!
iphone is the best!
haha no money for u charity
It's case sensitive
Looks like when they use the phone on the video that they are faking the features... Not like in the ads for iphone when you can see a page in safari render and start. Here everything starts direct... And when the girl scrolls it does not look like it follows here move more like she is following a movie played on the phone... Bad NOKIA..
Ugh, way too easy. Pass.
What you so conveniently forgot to mention was that in Apple's advertisements, pages in Safari rendered a good 3-4 times faster than in real life.
Nice to see that Nokia is adding decent eye candy and focusing on the usability of their UI. They already have the hardware and under-lying OS pretty much perfected.
2008 should be a vintage year for cell phones. :)
The problem is, Nokia is still not quite sure what makes Apple products successful.
In attempt to one-up the iPhone they put few buttons on the bottom, more things on the screen at the same time.. and a tiny, easy to lose stylus.
Nokia probably thinks "this is better than iPhone" while it's exactly the opposite.
Apple guesses more often than not when NOT to include a feature, so to make the product better (granted, locking 3rd party apps is an example of a wrong decision).
Nice to see we have more choice than the iPhone though. I always said it: iPhone will not become the hit Apple wanted, but it'll certainly change the industry, and here we go.
Whoever's designing their phones these days is very good (isn't it the former Ventu guy?). This phone, like the recently announced N81, N82 have classic Nokia features, but look really modern.
I keep trying to tell myself that the N95 is the last phone I'll need to buy. If they shove a decent camera & expandable memory I'll be proven wrong (again).
Make sure no one does mention that phone, I'm sure it's a worthwhile cause.
Anyway, that was pretty funny, S60 has gone downhill. They need to release a new O/S for Nokia Smartphones.
Also, did anyone else laugh at that sparke in that persons eye, or was that just me that thought it was funny?
Where did you get the number that S60 has gone downhill??
it's only in this cellular 3rd world called the united states of america that people do not use S60 devices... in other countries worldwide, S60 is still the dominant smartphone OS with over 70% market share... partly because people in this country are too cheap to use smartphones and they really love their shitty phones such as RAZR
Argh, I meant downhill as in... well... niceness.
S60 has become old, and has not been updated enough - and on most of the S60 phones, the UI is pretty boring.
Anyway, S60, because of the open platform, I have seen a couple of odd viruses hanging around. One that I saw kept on sending SMSs. Ouchies.
S60 (or more exact, Symbian) hasn't seen a virus EVER since they introduced a restrictive platform security model with version 9 - that is, in 2005...
So, just because Apple tells everyone that 3rd party apps would bring down the cellular network, doesn't make it true...
S60 is old, yes... need update, definitely
S60 is prone to virus?? Not really... Only for people who are stupid enough who opened unknown bluetooth file... just like that guy who opened his email with the subject line such as "XXX see her now!!! XXX" :D
It's not hard to fake the certificates? If that statement is true then I wouldn't use any online banking. They use the same methods of encryption.
Could you provide links to AV vendor press releases about these S60 3rd edition viruses, please? If viruses were out there, then surely the AV vendors would be bleating on about it.
It's certainly NOT easy.
Do a little research - there IS no virus for Symbian 9+/S60 v3+ devices. If it was so easy, it would have happened by now - after all, it is certainly a very proftable market segment for premium-SMS sending malware with 100's of millions of sold devices until now.
Getting viruses to any of your devices, whether PC or phone is usually the users fault. Stop faulting a platform just because some "viruses" exist. I have been using S60 phones one and off since 2003 and haven't encountered a single virus yet.
S60 is "old" and "needs update" how exactly? Not arguing with you, but I'd love to hear exactly what you think is wrong with it.
I mean, you want to talk *old,* let's talk Treos. I've seen way more improvements in S60 in the last year or so than I've seen in that blasted Palm OS since 2000.
Pretty UI ala iPhone + Symbian S60 3rd party goodness = Bye Bye my iPhone :)
Yeah - just my feeling too ;)
I just hope they'll make finger usage possible for anything, and thus, stylus usage completely optional...
1. The iPhone doesn't need to be interested with a 90's stylus, you can actually use your fingers.
2. Symbian? Woah, watch out iPhone only runs OS X.
3. 3rd party apps aren't here 'right now' but pretty much all know their coming.
My thought also. I checked out the Tilt and it is a *really* nice phone, however ATT forces you into the "PDA Data Plans", $40/mo for unlimited data is a tad too rich for my blood. Also, Symbian has always been much more stable for me than Windows mobile. Come on Apple, you know you want my money, just open up the damn device to 3rd party apps and I'll go get one.
@ Ireland
1. styli can be handy, and in this device are completely optional, and some people prefer them
2. The iPhone doesn't run OS X, it runs a basic interface that Job's called OS X so that tools like you would buy one.
3. And I thought OS X allowed 3rd party programs! and if "their" [get it right next time, it's THEY'RE for pete's sake] coming, why the hell were they not here originally?
We don't know that 3rd party iPhone apps are coming and we have no reason to believe they will. All we know is that a bunch of iPhone cheerleaders keep telling each other that. Apple will rule the iPhone with an iron fist. They've said so.
Do we still take out the stylus while typing on this nokia?
Though underrated, iPhone's keyboard works for me.
Sorry, nothing innovative or compelling there at all. The way Apple have eliminated the scroll bar is what makes iPhone so usable. Yes, a stylus is welcome because it is naturally intuitive and the only way to draw or sketch properly, but that demo while pretty did not show anything not already available on today's devices. And by the time this new S60 interface is available, I think Apple will be several steps ahead and will have opened up their platform a little more.
And you've reached that conclusion after seeing one bad quality video? Interesting...
This is already ahead of Apples offering by offering a similar UI, but still covering all basics well (you know, actually usable Bluetooth etc. etc.) and expandability (works with all thousands current apps available on S60)
Yeah ok, iPhoneboy.
worry about getting 3rd party apps to stay on your brick before you try to push that "nothing innovative or compelling there at all" bullshite line that we all knew one of you would try to puke on this story.
L, I will be the first to desire any device that offers an open alternative to MS or Apple, however, having owned a P900 and a P990, they may be versatile, but Symbian devices of today do not compare to the fluidity and usability of either the fantastic Psion devices of the past or the rock solid, fast and powerful OS that lies below the flawed iPhone. iPhone is version 1.0. Think of the first iPod. Chunky, 5gig storage (still enought for me BTW!) and mono screen. And compare to the iPod Touch of today. I am sure Apple will add Bluetooth and fix other flaws in iPhone 2.0. Their laptops and desktops have always lead the way with multiple wireless and connectivity options, so am sure they will produce the ultimate device soon enough. Else they are toast, and they know it. I don't think many realise that what makes iPhone special is that it is running a desktop OS, perhaps cut down, but OSX is phenomenally powerful. This is only the beginning. If you want my opinion, the LG Viewty is a great device. Radio, 5MP camera, VGA Video etc. I'm buying one until the iPhone 2.0 arrives. (Currently using an excellent Sony Ericsson K800i. Actually does more than an iPhone, so you get the last laugh!)
The thing that makes this major is the amount of users use S60 as its been said it dominates market. It has most of the users and its open platfrom... NOW if they can make it eye candy it will be the winner or continue to be the winner. Thought still no Nokia device with it so w'll see.
it looks good but am quite disappointed with what seems is a choice to go for a stylus. A phone should no use a stylus - a pda should but not a phone. I, and I suspect the mass market will not buy and use a phone, say to to text with a stylus, its finnicky and slow (one of many reasons I really dislike WM) I am afraid to say that apple are spot on when it comes to touch screens - ie do not use a stylus. I can see the benefit of a device with a stylus for business applications but NOT for day to day usage. I appreciate that they mentioned you can use fingers and a stylus, I just hope the stylus is an option not a requirement.
@ L
It's not that hard to make a fake certificate for a program... or a virus. And there has been more then one virus since the secruity update.
Also, when did I once mention Apple?
@ illutionz
Glad to see someone agrees with me that S60 is old! :)
Anyway, there are viruses, and that's all I'm saying. I know you'd be pretty stupid to install one, and that's why I don't install many things on my S60. (6110 Nav)
problem with feedback is not only knowing that you pushed a button, but knowing which button you're gonna push without looking.
also, lenovo, lg, samsung and panasonic all use s60.
I agree actually - it looks good but am quite disappointed with what seems is a choice to go for a stylus. A phone should no use a stylus - a pda should but not a phone. I, and I suspect the mass market will not buy and use a phone, say to to text with a stylus, its finnicky and slow (one of many reasons I really dislike WM) I am afraid to say that apple are spot on when it comes to touch screens - ie do not use a stylus. I can see the benefit of a device with a stylus for business applications but NOT for day to day usage. I appreciate that they mentioned you can use fingers and a stylus, I just hope the stylus is an option not a requirement.
Looks fantastic.
Let's hope Nokia Put some real innovation into the device and don't just offer us an iPhone copy.
I've always been pleased with any Nokia I have owned over the years (Although was slightly under whelmed with my N95) and would happily trade in my iPhone for the Nokia if it was as easy to use.
I had the misfortune of being set loose on an LG Prada phone a while back. It was horribly awkward and unintuitive to use.
Of course, by Summer 2008 every main manufacturer will have a high end touch phone. It can only get better!
Looking forward to a more in depth peak at some point soon...
Nothing hew here.
Looks just like TouchFlow, and much like TouchFlow it craps out and makes you use a stylus. Which is why I wont be buying a TouchFlow handset.
sure sounds like im gonna have a great life experience with this iPhone look-a-like device.
Why is this an Iphone look a like. The Iphone was a LG Prada look a like and all were look a like to various PDA phones already in existence for a couple of years.
you must be confused. the iPhone and Prada phone was released shortly after eachother which gave them almost no time to sneak peek at eachother. Nokia have had plenty of time.....you get the picture ?
The difference is that I will buy the Nokia!
Also, all cell phones are copies off of each other, since you put your ear on one end, and your voice goes into the bottom... The lack of a keypad, and a larger screen, now that's evolution, my good man!
whats the tune playing in the background?? anyone got an idea of that?
Seems like an adaption of The Roots - The Seed I'd say...
thanks it is! thats great thank you!
No problem, glad I could (at least partly) help :)
The Roots' song is really great imho...
IF it works as good as it shows on video. Nokia is a no brainer their hardware is the best already.
Cant wait for the TS phone.
Pity my upgrade is due in March then. Anyone know what other touchscreen phones O2 are offering?
It looks like a news report on fat people. No headshots..
Looks like Nokia is headed south as well. WOOHOO!!! less trash on store shelves! The world has no room for "me toos"
I can't believe Engadget didn't mention the iPhone once in that article!
=)
I'm also surprised the engadget writers aren't screaming iphone knockoff like they normally would.. oh wait i forgot it's not made by a chinese manufacturer, tells you a lot about the engadget staff doesn't it....
/sigh
itty-bitty stylus keyboard for the huge loss.
shame really. i was pretty interested until I saw drop-down menus, checkboxes and scrollbars (?!) all sized for stylus use on a 'touch' interface.
c'mon Nokia, it isn't hard. Get rid of the stylus. You have a product called "Touch" ffs and the model is using the stylus more than her damn finger.
Think about that.
-haptic feedback support
-full support for existing S60 apps!
-support for kinetic and light sensors (with Symbian 9.5 I guess, as it already supports that)
-a new toolkit for creating animated, modern UI's
-full Flash support (as in, with direct flash video support!)
http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1160272
Whoa... That phone better have 3G and GPS built in. It is incredibly thick.
Looks like 15mm imho. Not quite "incredibly thick" if you ask me. And I wouldn't bet on seeing the exact device from the demo video anyway. The screens were clearly put onto it on a computer afterwards, so I think it is a dummy shown in the vid rather than anything else.
And yeah, 3G is a no-brainer, and with Nokia's recent push into navigation services, GPS is in it for sure as well.
Being that thick, it better have optical zoom and a xenon flash.
it looks like a brick, just like the n95. though its powerful with features galore, i would love to have something slimmer.
> it looks like a brick, just like the n95. though its powerful with features galore, i would love to have something slimmer.
Sony Ericsson P1i, I've been using one for over a month, has grown on me a LOT. Didn't get an N95 because of the thickness. P1i beats it in all areas except it doesn't have GPS (so have to enter street name you're on in google maps instead, no big deal there).
The P1 is hardly slimmer than the N95 - 17 compared to 21mm...
And GPS is far from the only difference. If you really make an in-depth comparison, the differences are huge...
Nokia's batteries explode...!
And, that thing is SO FAT.
DogGunn,
I'm currently in Poland for a few weeks. While killing some time I wrote a little post on my blog (www.symbiosis60.com) after observing people waling in and out of the lobby...read it and then make comments that Symbian has gone downhill. I'm not going to throw any percentage but I saw about 8 people sitting in the lobby having conversation on S60 devices and a whopping ONE using Crackberry. This does indeed prove that S60 has gone downhill... Perhaps you should travel outside of the comfy bubble you live and then come back here and make another post with your observation. Also I personally don't feel there's much improvement needed in S60 appearance. It's clean, you can slap any kind of theme on top of it and it does what it needs to do. On the other hand I've used WM5 and WM6 - and I can say that this OS confuses the crap out of me and I'm not the one to be confused easily. Configuration of services is a BITCH bordering on the edge of higher engineering degree.
When I picke up my FIRST symbian phone about four years ago (N3650) It felt almost natural where to look for things and I don't get that feeling with WinMo OR Blackberry for that matter.
I do give a praise to Sony Ericsson OS...nice and clean as well but the platform itself does not allow for as much flexibility as S60 does.
Maciek
www.symbiosis60.com
Hey, look at us. We just made an iPhone knockoff. Of course, we didn't copy the iPhone. We had this on the drawing board for years just waiting until the time was right. An Apple spy infiltrated our headquarters and stole our designs. Our touch screen handset will be far better than Apple's. If they add one feature, we'll add two. If they have an X amount of memory, we'll double it. They use 3G, we'll use 4G. Their product weighs 12 ounces, ours will weigh 24 ounces. In the end, our product will be twice as good.
Besides we just figured people didn't need big screens and touch input in a handset, so we kept them happy with 2" screens, weird keypads and non-intuitive input menus. When the iPhone fad dies out, we'll return to the old designs which users love.
Love,
Nokia, the handset sales and market leader. Copier supreme.
Thinking helps. It really does.
And doing research helps as well, honestly.
And keeping quiet when clueless to avoid making a fool out of oneself works well too. Really!
Research more helps. There is Google and Yahoo for starters. Try searching LG Prada and Pocket PC phone editions into them.
you're really small minded, aren't you?
Development time, in the real world, doesn't work the way your feeble mind has it played out. It's not as simple as "hey look this phone came out! let's just copy it!" with the exception of the real knockoffs (and even those are just structural).
R&D takes real man hours. So to say that this device wasn't in development until the iPhone reared its head is idiotic, at best.
I think it's silly that anything that has a large screen and a touch interface is now "an iphone knockoff". Personally, I didn't even enjoy using the iphone. I considered buying it after the price drop (I rushed to get a 4gb before they were all gone), and when I used it...I didn't enjoy it. The gesture based interface IS in fact intuitive, but I didn't enjoy typing with it. Perhaps I didn't give myself time to absorb whatever learning curve there is.
Anyway, your attempt to be witty by pointing out what you feel is a valid point, is in fact, anything but. Thanks for playing, though.
Hey peeps. I was being sarcastic. You don't get it at all. Every handset manufacturer wants to have their own iPhone, no matter how they do it. If you want to scrap, look elsewhere.
great, another racist phone coming soon.
What do you mean?
Don't worry pal, this is no iPhone. After all, don't you use your fingers with the iPhone?
LoL people are on fire agen =D Its not that phone thats going to release...read the damn text.
PLEASE read the entry/press release again!
Sorry to disappoint every hater/fanboy, but this is not an actual phone. This is just a base (like UIQ or OSX). What you do with it is totally different. Therefore:
- finger or stylus support means, that Manufacturers can choose which of the three input interfaces they want to support
- haptic feedback support means, that if a Manufacturer does not build-in a touchscreen with this feature (like the iPhone did not have it with 1.0) then you will not get haptic feedback.
- UI Accelerator Toolkit is nice, but if you don't program with it, the UI is the same slow one
- available to manufacturers in 2008 means that the first phone running S60 Touch could be even 2009!
I really hope that 2008 means 1Q and first S60 Touch based phone means 2Q :-)))
I can live with my N95 8GB until then ;-)
Nice to see that someone got it ^^
iHype
Looks like Samsung SCH-W559 has haptic touch already.
Explained here:-
http://www.time4.com/time4/microsites/popsci/howitworks/cellphone_motor.html
But will it sync with my BMW...? =( I hope it does
iHype
Well, well, well!!!! It's really a copycat of the iPhone. well in more ways than one, nokia has settled again to mediocrity. hey nokia don't you have any better innovations up your sleeves? people need something revolutionary here. not just a touchscreen with a haptic feedback. we need more than that to kill the iPhone. i truly believe nokia could have done a better way to introduce touch screens on their phones. the stylus is a really bad idea.
I guess that it's time for Microsoft to leak qome Windows Mobile Photon info to counter attack all this lol. The damn thing has been in developement since 2004. Come on MS!
I have a great solution to solving the hard to use QWERTY on screen keyboard. Make it full screen.
But where do you see what your typing? That's where holographic technology comes in, and yes it has been invented (using non-star-wars methods).
Does anyone know what "depending upon the display technology used" means exactly? Are there two different versions. I mean, if the thing has haptics then the stylus seems like it should be secondary. Instead that they show her using it for most of the vid which is disappointing.
You know, IMHO, Apple doesn't make nearly the use of multitouch that they should/developers could so the thing just frustrates me. If they won't set all that creativity free I'd love to have something like this that we can set programmers loose on but the stylus just doesn't bode well. The UI for a stylus and finger are, and should be, different. Hard to mix them - which is why WinMo has those pitiful little buttons that ultimately mar the TouchFlo. Is that what is going to happen here? Or are their going to be two different devices?
Scroll bar and stylus? C'mon.
Nokia did this years ago....series 90 phone....the nokia widescreen or 7710....i still have it now...a quality phone with touchscreen and the first phone to have tv on it, plus email and all that other stuff...no phone today can beat it
@Ireland
2. Symbian? Woah, watch out iPhone only runs OS X.
3. 3rd party apps aren't here 'right now' but pretty much all know their coming.
Yeah, and they closed off the system making all of its power and potential go to waste. Locking down 3rd party apps was a dumb move by Apple. In fact, the iphone wasn't even an open system in the beginning. You'd have to jailbreak the damn thing just to get 3rd party software on it.
Yeah sure, you will "eventually" be getting 3rd party apps on the iphone. However, it's almost guaranteed that Apple will make you buy it off of itunes and they will probably only select a few 3rd party apps that they deem profitable or useful for consumers.
Thanks, but I'll stick to my open Symbian platform and free 3rd party apps.
Did they really have to make her eye twinkle at the end?
It took apple for nokia to do this.. They could've done this ages ago before apple, but apple had to come forth and move the mobile technology to a next gen level.
Just like always, apple paves the technology ahead, and others follow
there are plenty of immitaters, but only one original..
Oh well, this is good..atleast it's good to know apple isn't doing a failure but proving their side of the technlogy world is the future
True. There is only one original. It's funny how the iPhone/Apple zealots somehow conveniently forget to mention that the all-praised features of iPhone are mere knock-offs from MyOrigo (small Finnish company), back in 2003.
Big screen? MyOrigo
All touch operated? MyOrigo
Accelerometers, screen orientation? MyOrigo
Too bad the technology wasn't ready back then, for such a innovative product. (namingly the touch screen they were using)
It has been even implicated that Apple bought the rights (IP? anyone?) from Finnish company. (MyOrigo)
Only "original" feature is the multi-touch gimmick and that too wasn't their own invention, someone just merely saw Jeff Han's multi-touch clip on Youtube and decided to put integrate it to their upcoming handset. Hence, the principle was already there, they just put it to new form factor. The fact that these people somehow try to state that no-one has ever thought such things before is just utter bull... I'd rather state that pretty much every mobile UI designer has thought of this ever since that Jeff Han's clip. Apple just happened to made it first. (Maybe their UI designers just have more power over the technology engineers?)
As a UI designer myself, I'm ready to give iPhone one up, though.
The interface has indeed turned things around a bit. Maybe others are now more willing to think outside the box.
Although, Symbian has the same burden as Windows has: Wide userbase & long history. As every UI designer knows by heart, people tend to resist change. Rather, they tend to gravitate towards static environments with known variables. This makes it harder to completely overhaul such widely known products as Symbian or Windows. While I'm sure both of them (at least the UI design team) would gladly throw everything to trash and start from with a clean slate, it's just not possible.
I think a lot of your Apple freaks are missing the idea - it is a proof of concept of an OS with its options that 3rd party manufactuers can use, it not an actual product.
Therefore different models could use the stylus or not, and variations of a status bar - or not. I mean hell S60 today as is, does quite will with NO status bar and NO stylus. So clearly what they are proving is options for the mix.
The problem is you folks are too used to Apple's "Ford Model T" straightjacket: they lock you down in a ridig OS and firmware with no real options for customisation. S60 and Nokia is all about having a base OS that is spread over a variety of models and implementations.
You will fail to understand if you are unable to get your head out of your own....a--...em....paradigm.
this is the worst video ever made including porn movies
Because iphone is from Apple, that's all.
thanks to the appleboys strengthening the stereotype - it's the software - geez
The Apple Phone is the JUDAS PHONE okay?
Please read the initial post properly - we're talking about the software - from my standpoint I prefer a theme that allows me to group applications into categories which I can open with just a single tap of my finger - has that been patented?
I looked at the old HTC p4000 (aka TYTN) running MW 5.0 - it came with a stylus - and a side slider with a full qwerty keypad - the ONLY time I found myself using the stylus was when the slider was closed or the tip of my finger could not make contact with the screen in the correct place.
I did find it extremely annoying that he web and email buttons are conveniently located across the top of the touchscreens' border - so if I don't lock the screen, because honestly when I whip out my phone I want to use it - not go through the 2/3 tap unlock process.
And the best killer features yet to come because:
"generic proximity and light sensors supported"
Whoever gets this into a large display device with everything mentioned - I believe will have reached nirvana - but PLEASE give it a proper NAME not alpha-numeric gibberish - the AVERAGE user wants IT to have a NAME - reference Motorola and their thin phones of late.
Internet browser supports flash. > iphone.
Tacking a touch interface on top of S60 smacks of panic by Nokia. S60 is so creaky, that it's crying out for a major ground up rewrite, and the touch add-on is just going to kill it. This has become the Nokia way - a quick 6 month reaction to outside events, rather than a much longer term view. That's why *Phone caught them with their pants down in the first place.
yaa nice..
does this mean all future s60 device will have touch interfaces and no more it will have a single handed keypad layout?? this shocks me. S60 is the most advanced UI frame work for a smartphone. the main feature was the single handed input. but Nokia for a race with iPhone i think is losing there charm of S60 :( i may be egzagerating but this is what i think
how much is it ?
That "thing" sucks. It's not a cellphone anymore, it's a pocket computer.
A phone is usually used to phone, not to make coffee.
And... it smells like iCopy uh ?
For me Nokia is the best, the last products were awesome but they need more speed (N73, N81, N95) I have tried them all, We dont want to wait for the cellphone to do what we want it to do, we want it to do the things we want as fast as we can do them. We just need speed on this new one plus all the apps of the N95 and a good way to chat like with the old models (6230, etc.) No reduced keyboards please. A normal alphanumeric 12 keys keyboard on the screen with Predictive Text would be fantastic. Thanks!