Orange to sell unlocked iPhones in France

Well, well... looks like Apple has been backed into a corner by French law and will be releasing an unlocked iPhone in France after all. While no one will say precisely how much the unlocked iPhone will cost (the locked Orange-network iPhone will cost €399) those details are expected to be announced sometime before the November 29 launch. Of course, laws forbidding the exclusive bundling of cellphones to carriers are not unique to France. As such, we can expect a glut of unlocked iPhones in the coming months as deals are struck throughout Europe and Asia. Hear that AT&T, O2 and T-Mobile haters? Your nefarious unlocking efforts are about to get a whole lot easier (and more expensive).

[Via Orange]

[PCFanboisrock @ Oct 17th 2007 4:23AM]

OH MY GOD NOW THE PC FANBOIS CAN GRAB ONE ON THEIR FAVORITE CARRIER YAY!

[Ali @ Oct 17th 2007 4:41AM]

Wow! I am so impressed by your all caps! Keep it coming!

[ThePengwin @ Oct 17th 2007 5:04AM]

Why would PC fanbois want a phone running OSX?

[Khris @ Oct 17th 2007 9:03AM]

@ PCFanboisrock

Being the first to comment doesn't give you permission to be a tool.

[tits @ Oct 17th 2007 11:53AM]

really, ban that bitch!

[scooby03 @ Oct 17th 2007 4:25AM]

Viva la France!

[Reginald @ Oct 17th 2007 4:58AM]

wee-wee

[soul7963 @ Oct 17th 2007 5:06AM]

or oui-oui depending on if you can speak French or not.

[Callum Alden @ Oct 17th 2007 6:13AM]

Viva La France!

And I'm guessing its just a matter of cloning the OS from a Frenchy phone over to a UK or US version, a bit of tampering with the firmware or whatever (again, taking our lead from a copy of the french version) and we'll have a fully unlocked iPhone with no bugs etc?

[uberfu @ Oct 17th 2007 8:15AM]

@Callum Alden

Or do the "other language models" allow for English Modes ?

meaning if you buy - say a Mac Prof in France can you set the Language to English instead of a default French ?

'Cause if I buy a Mac Pro - here in the US - I can then change it's default english to French - if I chose - but usually I don't_

So based on the above - could the same possibly apply to the iPhone or is it stuck in the language you buy it in ?

[Andrew @ Oct 17th 2007 8:32AM]

@Uberfu

I think I read somewhere that there are language options on the EU models - either way, I don't think that the EU would allow them to lock the language in such a way.

[macbidouille @ Oct 17th 2007 12:25PM]

Uh, that would be vive la France. Viva is a brand of paper towels.

For all you doo-wahs who think theFrench iPhone will be language-locked, it won't. Not only would it be contrary to European law, it would be just plain stupid. You may find this hard to believe, but there are many of us in France who actually speak English (and other languages!). Also, I have excellent sources at France Telecom/Orange who tell me that the unlocked version will be at most €100 euros more than the Orange version - Apple has been stung by French law before and both companies know they either offer it at a reasonable price or have it legislated for them. Vive la France.

It may also be that Apple is finally waking up to the fact that in spite of their seeming hatred of the French market, their market penetration here is one of the highest in the world. Let them not forget that in the dark days of the early 90s, we were almost the only fools buying Macs.

[Koen @ Oct 17th 2007 4:26AM]

Great news! Hope this will come the The Netherlands as well... We have the same laws as france on this subject!

[Lars G. Sehested @ Oct 17th 2007 4:57AM]

I'm looking forward to seeing what the price will be in Denmark where contracts are limited by law to six months...

[CabLE @ Oct 18th 2007 11:27AM]

Same here but if it wont come to denmark winthin the next months i we might as well go to france and by one there.
Viva la france.

[FireFox @ Oct 17th 2007 11:09AM]

As do we Belgians!

[bollewolle @ Oct 17th 2007 4:33AM]

I am very curious about what the price of the unlocked version will be since it will be a nice indication what it will be when it comes to Belgium (cellphone locking is by law forbidden here). I hope it won't be too high (but am scared it will be).

[Kelmon @ Oct 17th 2007 5:36AM]

Depending on the details of the French deal and how easy it would be to get a French unlocked iPhone to work in Belgium, I may well just nip across the border to France to get one and then just get a contract with whichever Belgian mobile operator gets the iPhone deal later. Since you have to sell the phones separate to the contract in Belgium it won't make any difference in price and at least I can be confident that Apple won't come along and brick the phone (at least not unless they mess up an update).

[driti_ing @ Oct 17th 2007 4:36AM]

great, we'll pick some up in ebay

[BFish @ Oct 17th 2007 4:46AM]

According to french paper Challenges, the unlocked iPhone wouls have price of 999€ to ensure that all would take the one with Orange.

[J @ Oct 17th 2007 4:48AM]

Usually since the phone subsidy from the carrier is ~$250....I'm guessing at least that much more than it is here with the 2 year contract....

[perico @ Oct 17th 2007 4:59AM]

I guess that when those unlocked iphones come by, it wouldn't be that hard to dev-team to download evry single chunk of firmware in it and apply it to the locked iphones. That way every one can have an unlocked and official iphone, don't you think? :D

[Surur @ Oct 17th 2007 5:00AM]

The iPhone is unsubsidized at 400 euros. I expect law suites if the unlocked price is dramatically higher. How exactly would they justify the difference?

The iPhone is all about stupidity tax. They get people who are intimidated by their current phones to pay extra for intentionally limited features and "ease of use" (because its Job's way or the highway), they impress the impressionable with shiny graphics and funny animations, they take the device subsidy which would normally go to the consumer, and give it to Apple, and they do not lower the cost of the contract in return, and they lock people in ridiculously long contracts, again for an unsubsidized device.

In short, people who buy into the iPhone immediately label themselves as iDiots.

[bob @ Oct 17th 2007 6:35AM]

you mean some people want to pay a little more for something better? thats strange

[Godsmurf @ Oct 17th 2007 6:41AM]

Wow you are so cool elevating yourself above the masses! Or not.

Disregarding the fact that this is the only smartphone that isn't ugly (by itself already a perfectly valid reason to prefer the iPhone over the competition), could you mention a competing phone that has a screen that is at least as big, has at least as high a resolution and doesn't cost more? Or does your snobbish highness think anyone who thinks the screen is the most important feature is an idiot?

[Argot @ Oct 17th 2007 6:50AM]

"you mean some people want to pay a little more for something better?"

In what way is the iPhone better? The "cool" interface? The end.

[Meridimus @ Oct 17th 2007 6:55AM]

In a way I agree, but it's a nice phone. It's not ground breaking like Apple claimed, it's just lots of cool existing technologies pushed together into a portable device. Saying that it's not a true smart phone because of the lack of a high speed data service (that doesn't rely on WLAN). Although I think every phone should have WLAN, my Nokia N75 or whatever it is does and it's great.

I tried to play with the iPod touch in the Apple shop in Birmingham UK and the alarms kept going off. The security guard told me not to pick it up and was sure I was trying to steal it. I wish Apple would let me play with one so I can see if it's worth it. So I haven't yet seen what the Safari browser is like on the iPhone/iPod touch.

I'm pretty sure I will get an iPhone at some stage, but the huge price difference between it and other phones is ridiculous at the moment for something I primarily use for phone calls. I could hook up my gmail account and that would be nice.

You think Apple will make the mail app for the PC?

[Surur @ Oct 17th 2007 8:15AM]

GodSmurf said:
"could you mention a competing phone that has a screen that is at least as big, has at least as high a resolution and doesn't cost more? Or does your snobbish highness think anyone who thinks the screen is the most important feature is an idiot?"

You obviously dont know when you are being taken for a ride. Lets look at the Nokia E90
http://my-symbian.com/s60v3/communicator_gallery/09.jpg

It has 2 screens, one 2" 320x240 and one 4" 800x352. It has HSDPA. It has a 3.2 megapixel camera with VGA video recording. It has the Safari browser with Flash, but obviously does not need zooming tricks because the display is 800 pixels wide. It has a full 5 row keyboard. It has WIFI etc. It has a FM radio. Did I mention it has GPS?

The kicker is that on O2, where the iPhone is coming in UK, you can get the E90 for cheaper, on a shorter contract, with more minutes and SMS.

Nokia E90 £30/month for 18 months, with 400 minutes and 500 SMS - £259.99
http://www.theorder.co.uk/o2/paymonthly/phones/Nokia/E90

Iphone £35/month for 24 months, with 200 minutes, 200 SMS - £269
http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html

Now to get your supposed 'better' phone you pay more and dont get:
- Voice dialing
- free ringtones
- good camera
- sending pictures or video via bluetooth
- MMS
- cant save anything on the phone e.g. mp3's from the internet.
- no GPS
- No FM radio
- No A2DP
- No stereo speakers

For business users
- No exchange activesync
- No document editing
- No support for 3rd party apps
- No built-in VOIP

But you sure get a lot of purty, dont you... Do you play the lottery also?

[Constable Odo @ Oct 17th 2007 10:04AM]

Everything you say about the iPhone is true, but there are a hell of a lot of people that don't care. The iPhone will outsell the highest-featured Nokia handset by a huge margin.

Purty does sell. Guys like a good-looking woman even if she can't cook, clean or speak coherently. A pretty woman might be perceived to be a better woman and more men will flock to her. You could call guys like that idiots, but that's their choice. You probably prefer homely, overweight and functional women. Good for you.

It's not going to matter that the iPhone currently lacks all those features you perceive to be important to all handset users. It's a matter of record that the N90 won't even be in the running when it comes to sales. You might catch on when Nokia's stock price starts to drop and begins to lose market share in the smartphone/high-end handset arena.

So yes, the iPhone lacks all those features that you say are so important for an high-end handset, but it will have a number of those features added in the coming months. The iPhone is still a work in progress, so the so-called idiots will have to put up with a reduced feature set for a while. Although it's been said there would be an activesync solution, I've heard little about it. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will the iPhone empire.

For those few that absolutely must have a five megapixel camera, GPS and BlackBerry Enterprise Server solution then by all means buy a Nokia or BlackBerry and more power to you. The rest will settle for iPhones and more power to us.

[DoDo @ Oct 17th 2007 11:05AM]

Nha i'm sorry, but there you are going wrong i think its great product, but it wont sell more than Nokias S60 devices. Nokia dominates high end market globally(yes only continental that it dosent is north america). It need more than 1 phone and more time you know.... Dont care who wins as long as we win(consumers).

[Scott @ Oct 17th 2007 11:41AM]

If you really want to, you can judge every product in the world by means of a "feature checklist" and dismiss every other metric and characteristic as merely "the design" or "the marketing" but I swear to you, no consumer, anywhere, thinks like this. What you scornfully dismiss as "the design" actually IS the product, according to any criteria that matter to the user.

Look at how OS X on StrongARM lets the iPhone conduct every UI interaction with a unified interface, so that the different UI components (alphanumeric keyboards, media screens, dialing interface) all occupy the same fluid space, with an accellerometer controlling its response to its orientation.

Oh, never mind, I forgot: that's just "the design" -- irrelevant. Silly me.

"The design" is the dismissive term that Apple critics use to refer to what might more accurately be called "the superior hardware and software."

Look at a Porsche compared to a Toyota. Notice how one car is better made; can go faster; is, in fact, superior in every way from an engineering standpoint; its performance reflects this. Oh, never mind: it's just a car. I'm just getting caught up in "the design" -- silly me.

[Surur @ Oct 17th 2007 12:53PM]

In your example the iPhone is the slow slow Toyota, isn't it.

[Slipstream0 @ Oct 17th 2007 1:09PM]

wow, I love how when someone says the ipohne sucks, the comeback is "then show us something better, for less" and when someone does it becomes "well, features dont matter! design matters!"
So, what happens now when someone comes out with something that looks better? what will you say then?

[Scott @ Oct 17th 2007 4:18PM]

Slipstream: where did someone show a phone that has both the features and usability that best the iPhone? Oh right, you're basing "better" solely on feature lists again. The E90 is twice the price of an iPhone and STILL lacks the usability. Give me a multitouch (no scroll bars ever!) screen any day over a D-pad. For the record, I would prefer the features of the E90 and usability of the iPhone, but I have yet to see this in one device.

Surur: If base your decision only on price, the E90 is definitely the Porsche in this comparison.

[Scott @ Oct 17th 2007 4:25PM]

I refer to the price of the E90 as $1000, because that's what it costs to buy right now, today, in the US. The iPhone is $400, right now, today.

[Surur @ Oct 17th 2007 4:42PM]

With which device will you have a better experience composing a long e-mail? Or editing a document. Or guiding yourself home? Or downloading a large attachment like an mp3 or photo a friend e-mailed you? Or even just dialing a phone number in the car?

How about the experience of recording a video of your child at the park? Or sending SMS messages to a group of friends at Christmas?

As long as you use your phone for hardly anything at all your experience with iPhone will be great, but try and do something even a bit more challenging and the whole thing falls apart.

Regarding price, I think my comparison is more real, and compares two locked, carrier-subsidized phones to each other. Your $400 and $1000 comparison is well, Apples to oranges.

[Scott @ Oct 17th 2007 5:38PM]

Remember, Surur, your original post claimed quite simply that people that buy the iPhone are idiots. I am simply stating that feature lists are NOT the only tale to be told here, contrary to what you an many others believe. And listing them again as activities is still just a feature list.

In all honesty, with the exception of occasional GPS use, I wouldn't do most of what you listed. I don't wish to edit documents or send multiple user MMS (I hate it when one friend does this!). What I do want is a phone, a nice browser, and a portable media player. All must be easy to use an not crash-prone. Most phones fail spectacularly at browser and media player duties.

I would like a completely unlocked phone, and that's the main reason I haven't bought an iPhone. I still have yet to see a phone with a browser and music player anywhere near the iPhone, at any price. The E90 has scroll bars, and after using the iPhone, there's no way I'd go back to that. Not on that tiny screen, and especially not without a touch screen.

"Regarding price, I think my comparison is more real, and compares two locked, carrier-subsidized phones to each other. Your $400 and $1000 comparison is well, Apples to oranges."

Not for me (and most people here I'm guessing) it isn't. In the US, no one offers a subsidized E90, so I only get the choice between locked $400 and unlocked $1000.

[James @ Oct 17th 2007 5:01AM]

Does the link not say it will cost $560

[Bernard O'Neill @ Oct 17th 2007 6:49AM]

No $560 is €399. Not sure what the unlocked price will be, it's good news for Europe though!

[jas @ Oct 17th 2007 5:05AM]

hmm so that means anyone in the world can buy an unlocked iphone from france then use it on any carrier in the world? hmm hi will apple foil that one?

[Patrick @ Oct 17th 2007 5:06AM]

Similar laws exist here in Australia. All phones must be unlocked by carrier at consumers request, usually for a fee if still under contract. If out of contract its free.

Actually looking forward to when they het here now. id just signed up with a new carrier a few months back and dont want to have to change cause ive been happy with them

[danny @ Oct 17th 2007 5:12AM]

so, let me get this straight, i can hop on the ferry or train across the channel to paris, buy an iphone, bring it back and stick my uk vodafone sim in it?

[nikster @ Oct 17th 2007 6:41AM]

Yeah but you better speak french or learn it in a hurry.

"Faites glisser pour déverrouiller"

[danny @ Oct 17th 2007 6:51AM]

sacre bleu!

[Wim @ Oct 17th 2007 5:40AM]

Steve was mentioning Orange as a partner!! But, wil it be an excusive partner or not ... so maybe no locked iPhone in France overall? ... only unlocked iPhones?

[Dustin @ Oct 17th 2007 5:43AM]

But the question remains:
in what way will Apple work to disable the user from doing with the device what he pleases?

Region disabling? Gimping of features? French language only? I can't imagine they can simultaneously sell an unlocked version while trying to keep a step ahead of these sim-unlockers.

[Meridimus @ Oct 17th 2007 7:01AM]

Maybe it's something Apple already knew about, it could be a way to remove the need for illegal unlock software.

If so, Apple are smart and have already conned every iPhone user so far. The Europeans get it last but at least it's unlocked!

Long live the queen and her froggy counterparts.

[bugmat @ Oct 17th 2007 6:07AM]

Should be good news right? But I can already see AAPL jacking the price sky high to "encourage" ppl buying Orange phones... it'll still cheaper to buy one in the US (why is it so much more in Europe for the same thing??) and then unlock it yourself!

[Rik @ Oct 17th 2007 6:31AM]

Indeed, when the dollar used to be slightly less in value than the euro the difference wasn't so obvious, by now it's getting propostorous. Best example was Adobe selling the new Photoshop for the same price in pounds as in dollars due to "internationalisation costs"...

[nikster @ Oct 17th 2007 6:36AM]

[posting system ate my post?]

Maybe they will lock it to France only, or make it french-language-only. I am sure that that would not violate any French laws and it would still be annoying for people from other countries.