Sub-$200 HD DVD players just around the bend?
By Darren Murph 
posted Oct 18th 2007 12:20PM
posted Oct 18th 2007 12:20PM
A standalone HD DVD player for less than two Benjamins? From a manufacturer that we've heard of? We've been waiting for that day for some time now, and while there have certainly been wild claims by less popular foreign outfits and even price hiccups that have paired certain players with a (temporary) sub-$200 pricetag, it's about time for entry-level units on the whole to settle beneath the barrier. If a number of reports circling the web are true, we just might see it happen in the not-too-distant future, which isn't all that shocking considering how HD DVD player prices have been (expectedly) falling in recent months. Apparently, a $198 Toshiba HDA2-W has been noticed in Wal-Mart systems, and you won't color us surprised if it's joined by a few other name brand alternatives in time for the holiday rush. Of course, it remains to be seen if buyers will be willing to forgo the extras that higher-end units are blessed with in order to simply have a player that understands HD DVD, but historically speaking, money talks (the loudest).[Via PCWorld, thanks Nigel M.]
This is blasphamy!
ney, this is great!
people with skinny wallets want HD too ya-know.
I wouldn't be suprised if you see a BD player at this price point too soon.
your suppose to say this is madness so i can say THIS IS SPARTA! =( sad face.. fuck am i bored hahahahahah
I got my Toshiba HD-A2 WITH 8 free HDDVD's from Amazon for $199 about a month ago.
It was such a good deal, I couldn't resist.
Just checked Amazon now and the A2 is only $227 (and no tax for most).
Nice, but it's still $200 down the drain. Despite Paramount's attempt to keep the format alive, it's still doing poorly. It won't be gone right away, but 5 years from now you'll look back on it like the Laserdisc or Betamax.
Professor Farnsworth: "Good news everyone!"
why dont people see that most cheap HD players are 1080i WHICH is LOWER then 1080p, higher price, better quality period
does that matter if you have a 720p TV? No it does not!
if you have/had the clams to shell out (get it... clams...) for a 1080 anything TV you should have ample budget for a decent HD Player, the target demographic here are those who just want a cheap effective HD player that will work with whatever TV they have. Most of these people can't tell the difference between 1080p and hole in the wall (no offence).
Personally, i think that even if this is 720i people will be happy to deal with it because they just want a working HD-DVD player, not the best HD-DVD player.
Because 1080p has nothing to offer over 1080i for movies. Movies are filmed at around 24fps. 1080i can display 60fps (or 30fps if you duplicate the frames to give a progressive picture). The HD DVD player uses 3:2 pulldown to convert the 1080p24 signal to 1080i60. As long as your TV deinterlaces properly you don't lose anything and you don't get artifacting, because 1080i60 is enough to send all of the information of a 1080p24 source.
"why dont people see that most cheap HD players are 1080i WHICH is LOWER then 1080p, higher price, better quality period"
Simple: because MOST people only have 1080i capable HDTVs...over 80% of HDTVs in people's homes are only 1080i or less according to Engadget. Why pay more for a 1080p player when you only have a 1080i tv?
The fact that there are more 1080i players coming out is PURE GENIUS. Not unexpected, though, since the Toshiba 1080i player is the best selling standalone HD player on the market...of both HD DVD and BR.
BR would do well to get a clue and come out with a 1080i player as well.
Buying a 1080p HD player for a 1080i TV is like buying an PS3 for a standard def tv...pointless
MEH! Lets see if they will reverse this trend!
http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp
How about I just buy a $400 PS3 with BLU RAY; 1080p HDMI and 7.1 TruHD surround sound?
I'd perfer the PS3 over an HDDVD player simply cause they aren't going to win the format war.
Had Microsoft put an HDDVD drive directly into the 360 - thus increasing HDDVD market penetration via the 360, perhaps I would change my thoughts on HDDVD but, GUESS WHAT... THEY ARE SCREWED.
You know, this is one of those posts I'd like to hang on to, for posterity. Just in case HD DVD does overcome and you have to eat your words. Because you know, $200 HD DVD players vs. $500 Blu Ray Players is no contest, and it's exactly the kind of tatic that allowed VHS to overcome BetaMax.
This is kind of like the (in)famous Thread 500 over at MacRumors, where EVERYBODY panned the iPod upon it's release, saying that it would never take off and proclaiming the iPod as the end of the road for Apple. Someone, somewhere will be wrong about what format will win this war, and that someone has probably sworn up and down the block that their format of choice was obviously going to win.
Personally, I don't care which format wins, I'm having a great time watching this "war".
I personally think dual format players will eventually become cheap enough so that both formats will live on, just like DVD-R and DVD+R.
Actually,
The real reason VHS won is because they allowed port to be shot using it. Sony wouldn't license and port studios to use their technology.
Truthfully, we can talk all we want about Hollywood Studios and game consoles sporting either technology, but in the end the porno industry will dictate this. Currently, porn DVD's outsell in large numbers to movie and TV dvds. The same will be true of of HD-DVD and BR. Will Sony learn their mistake from last time?
The first HD DVD players were released 6 months after the 360. If Microsoft were to put the HD player in the 360 they would have needed to delay it. Sony delayed the PS3 because of Blu multiple times, first to wait until they "finished" (not that it is finished now) the Blu spec, then because of problems just making the optics, then they had problems making enough of the optics. They missed an important window of opportunity and look what happend, the game system that people would get an extra job for and sell millions in the first few months even without games didn't - because there are no games. 60GB consoles sit on store shelves months after they stopped making them. They sold millions, but it is still way below the number of 360s or Wiis. Number of BD movies sold is, when you look at the #sold/#players is very low (with my dozen or so BD movies, I think I boosted those numbers significantly).
Sony did not do themselves any favors using a Blu drive in the PS3, and in fact hurt themselves. Why would Microsoft want to do that? If anything, maybe a new edition with a HD player built in as an option, or now after time has passed start including it in the pro/elite, but make it standard a year ago and bury themselves like Sony did? Bad decision.
We just happily purchased the HD DVD drive for the 360. :D
Talk to me when dual-format players are sub-$200 or dual-format discs are the norm (not likely).
I'm not taking sides in this stupid war.
Agreed. A sub $200 HD-DVD is only half of what you need, so twice as expensive as it should be, and that's not even counting for the need to have room for (and input ports for) two different HD players. Dual-format players are the only solution, so those are what need to be sub $200.
HD DVD FTW!!!
I for one welcome our HD DVD overlords...
Personally I see the tides turning in favor of HD-DVD. They won't necessarily "win" the war outright - I think digital downloads will overcome both, but I see Blu-Ray losing ground with the Paramont/Dreamworks switch and now the huge price drops. On top of that, HD-DVD just works more reliably because the menu standards were done right the first time, not so with Blu-Ray. And cost really is everything to the mass market, regardless of specs. Unless Blu-Ray can match this soon (which I'm doubtful, because Blu-Ray simply costs much more to manufacture), they are in trouble!
HD-DVD are going to lose this format war, there is absolutely no doubt about it. Stand alone players are selling badly for both formats because people just dont see a reason to upgrade. That doesn't matter for BluRay though because they are still getting millions of players into peoples homes in the PS3. In the UK for instance there are around 20m households and over 1m PS3s. That means of course that over 1 in 20 households in the UK owns a BluRay player. By the end of next year that figure will probably be less than 1 in 10 or even as low as 1 in 5.
A household that has a BluRay player already isn't going to choose HD-DVD if they do HiDef and friends of that householder will also be more likely to choose BluRay.
MEH! Lets see if they will reverse this trend!
http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp
Yes allways a good point. don't ppl realize that its movies sold that mean the most, if no ones buying the movies whats the point of haveing the player?
People are also going to choose the format that they perceive as winning. I looked on Amazons top 100 DVDs the other day and there were only 2 HD-DVDs on there compared to 26 BluRay titles. Nobody who sees that is going to think HD-DVD is the format to go for no matter how cheaply they sell the players.
People will buy HD-DVD when it's cheap enough, not on their perception on who will win. Most analysts don't see an obvious winner at the moment; why would people assume BD will win?
The only reason more BD are being sold is because of the PS3. Once the HD-DVD reaches a price point(whatever that is) when many more people will buy, you'll see more HD-DVD movies being sold. For the average consumer, price IS the most important factor.
Well, Looks like The evil empire in Bentonville are finally going enter this format war. I hope this true, it will certainly help adoption.
I love reading all of these fanboi posts, it cracks me up. Particularly the BD fanboi morons.
Bottom line in the format war.
1. The 1080P thing is not a win for BD, like the sony girls keep saying. Most of us have a 720P or 1080i HDTV. Both my sets (42" Panny Plasma and 50" Sony 3LCD Grand Wega) are 2+years old and I paid extra for 720p then, 1080p was just coming out (Panasonic PT-61LCX85 was the "first" 1080p in Sept '05). 1080P24 is useless right now, only a few TVs, and High end at that, support it. 1080P60 is useless as well, it just introduces more flutter on media mastered at 24FPS. And besides, for $50 more street price you can get a 1080P HD-DVD player if you have the $500 more expensive TV that can actually use it.
2. There is no difference in audio or video quality between the 2 standards. BD fanboi's argue all you want, you are making stuff up.
3. Whichever format you buy you will not get screwed in the end. Dual format players will be around for at least 5 or 10 years after the war ends, if it ever does. (If you don't believe this go to Pioneer's website and lookup the DVL-919, yes they still MAKE a laserdisc player. I own an older LD/DVD player and love going to the 1/2 price book store and picking up an LD movie here and there for $1.50, plus my kids friends are like "what the heck is that!" when I pop the Toy Story LD in.)
4. Sony and Toshiba dont care about this war, and are not bitter enemies. Toshiba makes the processor for it's #1 rival to HD-DVD the PS3. Nuff said
5. If walmart is really going to sell the HDa2-W at $198, HD-DVD will outsell BD in 2008 as far as media sales.(Which is why I suspect the HD-A3 has been delayed by toshi, so they can crank out the walmart order with cheaper chips on the same board as the A3)
7. Blu-Ray was rushed to market because of the PS3. Which would have been a great move and "may" have ended the war early with BR winning, that is if it wasn't for Nintendo and the Wii.
6. Nobody really cares except a few videophiles and fanboi's
About #4... Oh, they care, and they care quite a bit. If Sony didn't care they wouldn't have taken the huge gamble with including BR in the PS3. Up to this point it has been a costly move. They may not be "bitter enemies", but just because they may work together in other areas doesn't mean they don't care about the format war.
wake me when I can buy blanks to save my data to for USD$5 and recorders for USD$200.
They can rip out the movie playing aspect completely as far as I'm concerned.
How is HD-DVD supposed to win this war?
Sure, their lower prices are getting people to buy the player, but in the end they've merely attracted the people who are least willing to part with their money. HD-DVD sales are poor compared to Bluray, but their rental rate is higher. So if you increase your install base by puffing it up with people who'd prefer to rent, and not buy the content, are you really changing the tide in the format war?
"How is HD-DVD supposed to win this war?
Sure, their lower prices are getting people to buy the player, but in the end they've merely attracted the people who are least willing to part with their money. HD-DVD sales are poor compared to Bluray, but their rental rate is higher. So if you increase your install base by puffing it up with people who'd prefer to rent, and not buy the content, are you really changing the tide in the format war?"
So are you implying that rental joints like Netflix, Blockbuster, Hollywood video, and (insert your favorite rental place here) don't buy their movies?
Install base is still important but by no means is it or total movies sold the deciding factor.
>>So are you implying that rental joints like Netflix, Blockbuster, Hollywood video, and (insert your favorite rental place here) don't buy their movies?
Look at the logic, which generates more money for the HD-DVD camp?
10 people buying an HD-DVD disc, or a company purchasing 1 HD-DVD disc and renting it out to 10 people who pay a subscription only to that particular company.
I can see you haven't put a great deal of thought or research into how the movie rental industry works. Let's just say I guarantee you that Blockbuster et al would be OVERJOYED if all they had to pay in licensing fees for the right to rent out a movie was the same $25 that Joe Sixpack pays. I mean.. wow.
I won't buy until:
1.) Multi Format players are the norm.
2.) I see a Sony HD-DVD or a Toshiba Blu-Ray (That will tell you when the "war" is over.)
Hi there Engadget Blu nuthuggers...and of course BR nuthuggers. I would be format neutral if they came out with an affordable BR player. As for now, I'll stick with my HD DVD player and I'll import some of the BR eclusive titles too.. they're as much as the titles Fox has released. Oh and by the way how come Engadget hasn't posted the BR exlcusive store from our friends down-under, that they have turned and went HD DVD exclusive? This site posts every news that has to do with BR success but never HD DVD. I wouldn't call JB Hi-Fi going exclusive to HD DVD small.
Sorry not exclusive HD-DVD but now neutral. Please learn to read and comprehend better.
http://www.smarthousenews.com.au/Home_Cinema/DVD_Players?Article=/Home%20Cinema/DVD%20Players/J8T5Q8M5
""We have come to the conclusion that cutting the consumer out of a HD DVD opportunity was not right"
On that note any exclusive retailer of either format is silly, support both let the people decide and rake in the dough while you're at it.
1.3 billionish people own TVs . .
The last format war was between the late 70s - early 80s, so around 4+ years? What does this tell me, its a little early for the fanboys to be declaring whos won the war but you can this: lower prices certainly doesnt hurt. Now if only HD had a buy 1 get 1 deal like Disney has for BR - id be in heaven
Customer walks in.
Yes I would like to buy a Samsung HD-DVD player.
Salesperson: Sorry but they do not make one.
Philips?
Nope
Sony, LG, Sharp, Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon?
Nope they don't make HD-DVD players.
Well who does?
Tohsiba and maybe Venturer.
Really wow I bought a Toshiba TV and it was terrible, No thanks.
Briefly mentioned previously, but I just wanted to bring up: even if you don't own a 360, you can get the 360 HD-DVD add on for less than $200 already, and just install the right drivers on a PC and you're off to the races. I haven't done it myself, but you *can* do it, right? And if you don't have a 360 *or* a PC capable of at least playing back an HD-DVD, well, maybe you should spend your 200 dollars on one of those first ;-)
Tell that to Netflix, chief. Or better yet, visit some forums and gauge which format consistently garners the most buzz. Actually, skip it; I'm probably only making you feel worse.
Whether your player outputs at 1080p or 1080i makes absolutely no difference for anyone, except possibly some guy with a 1080 CRT.
Here's how it works: HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies are both encoded at 1080p at 24 frames per minute, to display this on a 1080p monitor, this is first converted to 1080i at 60 frames per minute and then to 1080p at 60 frames per minute. Your 1080p flat panel can no more display 1080i without upgrading it to 1080p than it can fly to the moon under its own power. If it gets a 1080i/60 signal, it has to convert it to 1080p/60. The only difference is in where the last step of the conversion to 1080p/60 is done, in the player on in the monitor. Unless your TV does a terrible job of doing this conversion, you'll never know the difference.
The one exception I can think of would be for a CRT monitor that is actually capable of displaying 1080i/60. There may be people out there who actually own such TVs. It might even matter for somebody with a a 720p CRT, but I'm not sure about that.