You can chalk this one up to our bad in assuming best intentions, but when
Apple said no cash for iPhones, they damn well meant it -- enough to extend the policy out to no cash for anything that could in turn purchase an iPhone. Turns out you can't even use your Apple bucks to buy an iPhone anymore, not even if someone bought you an Apple Gift Card with
their credit card. Ok, for a lot of you this isn't a big deal, but who gets hit hardest? Try all those teenage Apple fanboys begging various family members for small denomination gift cards that will add up to the iPhone they've been after. We've never heard any company being so adamant about keeping non-paper trail for every single damned purchase, but now we're just left wondering how long until someone (or some state) sour from this bitter pill decides to challenge Apple on that whole
US dollar bills being "legal tender for all debts, public and private" thing.
P.S. -No we're not lawyers, but yes, we're aware that it's probably completely legal for Apple to do. But that doesn't make it right, nor does that mean it will go unchallenged, you feel us?
[Thanks, Kevin]
posted Oct 29th 2007 12:48AM
Paranoia, No?
Or just idiocy.
CUPERTINO - Apple announced today that it would no longer be accepting purchase requests for the iPhone. "We feel the iPhone is too good for regular humans," says the Apple spokesperson. "To protect our brand image, we have decided to stop selling our product altogether to maintain a level of exclusivity unattainable by any other product currently on the market."
The spokesperson also announced they would continue advertising in order to maintain the feel of unattainability.
No kidding! This is gonna backfire in their faces since I don't see any future iPhone retailers (Best Buy, Cicuit City or Amazon) enforcing this.
This will further complicate the iPhone's widespread availability and hinder the company's projected 2008 sales. Way to go Apple!
Just buy a simon mall credit card if you are *that* desperate, they are accepted anywhere visa is accepted and i think you can get them up to 1000 dollars
Holy Shit! That's what I suggested as a workaround yesterday...they must've taken my comment to heart.
Oh and Dbrim it's iDiocy.
Oh and on a sidenote, Apple will now no longer accept the $100 vouchers that it gave to Apple iPhone customers that it screwed over by lowering the price by $200.
@idude135
I guess that's true, you can pay cash at best buy or wherever, or buy a gift card at those places. Unless Apple forces them to follow suit. Of course, then you can deposit money in your checking account, and pay for an ebay purchase with paypal and your checking account.
This just in, Apple no longer accepts PayPal. All owners must be preapproved, and submit a copy of their DL, SS Card, and Birth Certificate.
You know, Apple's website (http://www.apple.com/go/giftcards/) says the following:
What products can I purchase using an Apple Gift Card?
You can purchase just about anything sold by Apple (except another Apple Gift Card, an iTunes Gift Certificate or purchases at the iTunes Music Store), including products from both Apple and third-party makers.
So they have clearly spelled out which products are not purchasable with a Gift Card, and the iPhone is not included. If you have a gift card, a copy of that website, and proof that you bought the card before you accessed that statement, Apple had better damned well let you apply your card toward an iPhone.
To own it an iPhone it requires a way to pay the subscription, which means credit card.
Kids will not be using Gift Cards to buy iPhones, because they need a plan beyond buying the hardware to own and use the product. Not using Apple Gift Cards to buy iPhones is not a large issue.
Its been ruled time and time again that a business can refuse to sell you a product or service for any reason, including payment method. Now if you owed apple money and they refused to take cash it would be a completely different issue.
I think the problem is going to arise from the legalities surrounding gift cards. Recently laws have been made regarding accepting gift cards, expiration etc. I don't think that they can choose to not accept a form of payment that they themselves issue. It's disingenuous and I'm pretty sure illegal. Does anyone know?
I'm no lawyer, but I believe Paul is Right. Imagine if you went to Best Buy and spent $1000 on Gift Cards and the very next day Best Buy decided it will no longer accept their own gift cards and will not refund any outstanding values.
They would be sued in a micro-second. Just because Apple is limiting this policy to one product, that does not excuse them from the responsibility to accept their own gift cards.
Cant you just go to your bank and but one of those $1,000.00 reloadable credit cards??? There is always a workaround.
Why not just go to an AT&T store. Im not sure if they are also not accepting cash.
My utility company required a credit card before they would give me electricity. What's the difference?
The difference is that the iPhone is being sold as a device, not as a service. For every other cell phone out there, you can usually buy the phone at a reduced price with the service at a reduced price. This makes it nice for the customer to save money, and it prevents the phone from being used outside of its intended service. The iPhone is the exception. Its being sold by Apple, and its being supported by apple, but you need AT&T to run it. So, while i understand why this is being done, it only ends up hurting the customers who are buying a device that they should be able to use any way they like. When apple makes you sign a contract before buying the iPhone, then they have the right to say what you should and should not do with the device. At the moment, all it says on my box is that i need AT&T to use it, not that i must have AT&T to buy it. (Not to pick on you, but you just brought up the subject quite well)
They don't sell you gift cards, good for paying anything than your bill.
Your utilitiy company did not require a credit card before they gave you service that would be illegal. However most likely your utility company required a deposit that was waived with a credit card.
People may find this hard to believe but not everyone has a credit card. Some religions(Christianity included depeneding on the church)do not allow the use of credit or loans. Other people are huge privacy advocates who pay only in cash and money order. Requiring a credit card for a basic service like electricity would be illegal anywhere and a discriminatory practice as well as classist. Asking for a credit and recommending as the first and easiest method is not illegal though.
At some point there will be a law suit about this. As I said the practice is discriminatory against certain religions and privacy advocates would also be jumping on this.
I am of course referring to the cash segment as far as the gift cards are concerned they can exclude any product they wish as long as it is not the whole store.Though there are plenty of cases startign to sort this one out.
Some food thought.
The no 20s rule is one that is based on the safety of employees in order to reduce the number of robberies and also in place to reduce the number of counterfit bills and has been upheld in court of thsoe reasons.
The Exact Change rule is for services to be rendered after payment without a contract at the time of payment or sale. In these cases no debt has been accumulated until after payment. Catching a bus will fall under this situation.
Debt is acquired during any sale at the store the minute you are at the register and you see those numbers starting to go up on the screen. The debt is immediately satisified.
Some stores can refuse cash all together but it is across the board(Fed Ex does this at certain locations and again it is also based on safety there is no cash in these stores whatsever). S and H or Legal Stamps used to be stores that operated entirely no cash at the consumer level they used their own stamsp)Some items can be purchased without using cash in stores that usually except cash they are not marked in dollars though they are marked in tokens stamps or what not though this is less and and less common and more and more found in catalogs(coke).
The Iphone doesn't fall under any of these catergories as far as I know. there isn't a safety issue as presented by the fact you can buy an Imac with cash at a higher value. It isn't a service to be rendered after payment you buy the phone not the phone service(you may not even get the phone service it could be a gift) and the phone is yours the moment it is paid for. It's price is not marked in stamps. The whole store deals in cash so that is not an exclusion. Pennies can be limited in use but once again that is to because it is uneasonable for a retail store to take 600 dollars in pennies.
Stores do not have to take cash as payment in the US they can also take widget dollars however if they did that they would soon go out of business since no other business would take them.
I have seen cases that dealt with the penny issue, the no 20's,Stores that deal entirely without cash, Stamps and exact change issues. I haven't seen any that deal with the exclusion of one product in a store that operates in cash on a regular basis.
the key word in your final quotation is " debts " . vendors don't have to accept cash, only creditors, i.e., your local bank, financial institution, credit card company, etc .
Sorry, *Leo*, but you're wrong. The "...debts..." language refering to the US dollar has always been considered as a reference to any debt, including commercial sale. It isn't just refering to "debt" as a traditional obligation of payment or service. That said, *Rob*, *Brent* and others are 100% right that there is a mile-high stack of caselaw that makes it very clear that a private business can refuse a sale for (almost) any reason. This would likely be one of them.
since there is a " mile-high stack " of case law, i would be interested in seeing a link to one such case .
They sold 250,000 iphones to the Grey market...which is a crazy amount. No wonder they are clamping down hard. Apple loses about $420 from monthly subscriptions. Not to mention they cant have customer support..therefore brand image is tarnished.
>>Apple loses about $420 from monthly subscriptions.
Stop saying this. They don't lose $420. They actually gain $400 for the sale of an iphone to a customer who otherwise would not have bought it.
These are cutomers they would otherwise not have so it is actually money they would not have anyway.
Everybody I know that has one doesn't use AT&T and has cracked it. Also, I do not know anybody that bought it at the opriginal price. Ironically, I am the only one in my group of friends that is on AT&T but I do not have an iPhone. Go Figure.
Imagine how many they would have sold if it wasn't locked.
M
I'm tired of individuals bringing up Apple's concerns and desires when discussing their behavior. Seriously, why should the customer (us) be concerned with whether or not our actions have maximized Apple's revenue. It's not logical for me to take Apple's concerns into consideration when making financial decisions (like buying an iPhone). Simply put, their crapping on the customers, there's no other way to say it. If M$ did the same thing, everyone would be saying "That's what you get from a crappy company like Microsoft".
...That being said, I'm still probably going to buy iPhones for my wife and I this Christmas. They're cool, and I have no problems with signing an AT&T contract.
I was thinking about buying an iPhone, but because of all of the locked/unlocked/relocked crap, I decided to go with an HTC Kaiser instead. The UI certainly isn't as slick as the iPhone, but it's unlocked, has a lot more applications (including skype and slingplayer). Looks like Apple won't be getting my money for at least a few more years.
Maybe by then they will have smartened up...
@MR
"Stop saying this. They don't lose $420. They actually gain $400 for the sale of an iphone to a customer who otherwise would not have bought it."
That's a complete oversimplification. I wish business was that simple, but really, profit and loss is a lot more complicated.
Given that their actions indicate they would rather lose a sale than have an iPhone unlocked, it's entirely likely that Apple's share in the service revenue is the difference between profit and loss for the iPhone product line.
Before anyone argues that the manufacturing cost for the iPhone is less than the retail cost, I will point out that manufacturing costs are only one line on an income statement.
This is bull on Apple's part. Who cares what you use to pay for the item, and/or what you decide to do with it. Sure, Apple, as any other major corporation, is looking out for its own gain. Screw the customers. I hope someone is taking note and bitch-slaps them real soon. What's next? "Oh, per Steve Jobs; you're not allowed to purchase any Apple products, unless you come in wearing jeans and a black turtleneck shirt." And by the way, he specifically said "it must be purchased from the Gap and has to be from the Steve Jobs' clothes line."
The more I hear from Apple, the more they disappoint me. "Think Different" my *ss.
the real wtf is that they don't require you to make the at&t contract in store at the time of the iphone purchase, because thats what they're aiming at with this.
would simplify things a lot - now if you walk into a store and got iphone and ipod touch there side by side and you're wondering which product is the right one for you and what they cost... you're pretty unlikely to be able to make an informed decision, because you'd just see the service options after you had bought the iphone and taken it home and was wondering how to use it for playing mp3's..
but then the customer would be shown and he would need to understand what he is buying.. that you're not buying an iphone - you're paying the down payment on a service that you will have to sign up. and yes, apple has calculated that just seling the device doesn't make them enough profit.
(that you can unlock doesn't change the facts that this is how it's supposed to go)
Jerks.
and thats how men you describe apple in one word in this kind of situation
See, here's the problem I see Apple running into: Someone gets a bunch of gift cards from relatives who don't know this (as the Apple Store reps are not probably gonna advertise this), and tries to buy an iPhone. Now, Apple already HAS the money given to them, and is refusing a customer's right to choose this product. This wouldn't be a problem if gift cards could be redeemed for cash (and could be put in a bank account and used to buy the iPhone with a debit card), but they can't (unless Apple's are different from EVERYONE ELSE's gift cards). THIS is what could potentially get Apple into some serious legal issues.
So does that mean unlocked iPhones will sell at a higher price now that this law is enforced?
It's called journalistic research people (i.e. Google)
Taken from the US Treasury Department Website:
"There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise."
http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml
This was also pointed out ad nauseum in the comments of the first article covering this story. Good to see we're fact checking, guys.
Ok, fine, I get it, perhaps it's completely legal. Does that make it right? No. Does that mean that no one will attempt to challenge it in a court of law? No. Try to see the forest through the trees, whether it's patently illegal isn't really the point.
Ryan, I believe he was pointing at your misleading line at the end of your post. You're implying that the practice is illegal and merits legal action.
Will someone challenge it? Sure, this is America. I could sue someone for $1m for looking at me cross tomorrow morning. Doesn't mean it'll stand legally. It seems to me this law has been challenged before, especially with the US Treasury dept. holding a FAQ for it.
What you should be looking at is state statutes -- are there any states which Apple operates retail stores in that prohibits this practice? THEN we'd have something to talk about.
Nothing misleading there. I didn't say it was illegal, nor was it implied. I said I wonder how long it'll be before someone challenges it. Guess I'll have to add a post script for all the pedantics in the audience, then.
There really is no reason to get so upset. You write for something out in the open, you're going to have critics. It was all over the last story about the practice being legal. The implication is certainly there -- read the comments for this story and read the comments for the other story. People are believing that this is an illegal practice. You aren't helping matters with a line like that. I'm sorry you can't take a little criticism in the course of improving the quality of posts.
Who's upset? I've been doing this for years, Big John, I know the score. And your advice was received and resulted in an update to the post, everybody's happy.
I'm as ignorant as the next guy, but doesn't the fact that Apple is a publicly traded company exclude it from the ranks of "private" businesses?
If it's a publicly traded company, is it still a private company?
'Private' in this case means 'not a government entity'.
omg... i'm a shareholder and i'm PISSED OFF
someone at apple better give a GOOD explanation as to why they're denying people giving them money in any form.
There is an explanation on the US treasury website concerning the statement that US currency is a "legal tender for all debts, public and private" - it is only stating that US currency can be used as a legal form of tending to all debts, public and private, but does not require that businesses accept US currency in their operations. If they were to change this interpretation because of Apple, it would also mean that no businesses can refuse to accept denominations exceeding $20 dollar bills (hits a sour note with gas stations and will in turn get big oil's lobbyists working to block such a change).
Peace.
Guess what? A gas station not wanting a $50 or $100 doesn't have the right to refuse the bill unless they legitimately believe its counterfeit, which case they need to call the secrete service ASAP. You fill your tank with gas, you have a debt to the gas station. All debts, public and private, means just that.
I guess it's on to Plan C for all those teenagers: credit card gift cards.
http://www10.americanexpress.com/sif/cda/page/0,1641,16130,00.asp
It's a prepaid credit card valid anywhere Amex (in this case) is accepted. Other credit card companies offer these cards, too. The only problem is the seeming $500 cap. Can you use two prepaid credit cards to buy an iPhone? Have fun kids.
Or you could just go to an AT&T store... I don't think Apple has made AT&T stop accepting cash (yet).
Anyway, thankfully I got mine before this went into affect. But even so, my dad used his credit card and I paid him cash.
Err...
Current policy is Credit or Debit Card with purchaser's name on it. No Gift cards of *any* kind. You need ID that matches the card. No if ands or buts.
Yep.
Nikki-
I believe those credit card gift cards do come with the recipients name, so that shouldn't be a problem.
-Todd
"legal tender for all debts, public and private"
Hmm do I smell class action lawsuit?
No, you don't.
"
FAQs: Currency
Legal Tender Status
I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?
What are Federal Reserve notes and how are they different from United States notes?
What are United States Notes and how are they diferent from Federal Reserve notes?
Question I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?
Answer The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise."
Unless state laws exist prohibiting this practice, they're more than in the clear. I know in Michigan such a law either doesn't exist or is blatantly ignored.
Damnit. Sorry about the big copy/paste drop. Didn't notice that I had grabbed most of the page and didn't think to scroll up in the text box.
thing is, with as many states apple has stores in, has anyone found a state law that says anything about this?
You need your nose checked...
Okay. Fucking ridiculous.
That's completely lame. Will they at least allow you pay part on an Apple gift card and part on a Credit Card? If part of the transaction is on a credit card, they can still keep track of me. This sounds to me like a miscommunication between corporate and a retail store which will be corrected in short order. Otherwise, I hope they're prepared for an influx of Gift Card return requests.
As many people have pointed out already, Apple is allowed to do whatever they want in terms of what form of payment they'll accept. Come on Engadget, you should be better than this.
Also,the teenager with the gift cards sounds like a good "legitimate" scenario, but think about it. It's a fucking cellphone, which, if you want to use it's features, you have to activate it through a 2 year contract with AT&T. You're talking at least $50/mo for 2 years. How's the teenager going to pay for that, without a credit OR a debit card (i.e., a bank account)?? And if the hypothetical teenager (or, more likely his/her parents) has a credit/debit card, I'm sure Apple would be OK selling him/her the phone provided they can swipe the card. And if the hypothetical teenager doesn't have a credit/debit card and neither do his/her parents, then that teenager really shouldn't be buying an iPhone. Get the iPod touch instead.
What about the prepaid route?
Totally with you on the fact that most people that would buy one would have some type of plastic card. Looks like the Visa Buxx and the like will benefit from this mess.
My only wonder is how will this affect negotiations with other merchants, which will be crucial to reach the 10 million mark in '08.
Well, I've never bought prepaid CCs before so I don't know how it works. But, I have used (interestingly) AT&T "rebate" credit cards online and as far as I can see, I was able to use it like any ol' credit card. I've a feeling that if you are mandated to provide personal info (name, address, phone number, the usual) to purchase and fill up a prepaid CC, and that info is verifiable by Apple, then I'm sure they'd accept it.
Hey, Engadget. If you consider yourself any kind of a true "journalist", why don't you go out and check these possibilities out? Getting all your stories from online sources only, I understand, is nice and easy, but sometimes, good ol' fashion journalism might do your readers a mountain of good, by providing us with *quality* information.
It's not THAT big of a deal, since yes most people have some sort of access to a credit card for activitation.
But not accepting gift cards is cheesy. If I got a bunch of gift cards for XMas, I'd be pissed if I couldn't buy an iPhone with them. It would be nice if they would exchange the gift cards for cash (up to $400 worth), then let me buy the phone on a credit card- then everyone seems to win.
I absolutely agree that anybody at an Apple Store should work with the customer to see how gift cards, bought or presented for the purpose of the customer purchasing an iPhone with is, could be utilized to that end.
Again, since I already have an iPhone (and do not possess any gift cards) I can't check this for my self, but I feel quite confident that if you're willing to show some plastic, they would accept the gift card(s). Heck, I bet they'd probably also accept cash for that matter.
And here is where Engadget could come in, as "journalists", to really look into this matter, instead of just picking up unsubstantiated junk on the 'net and spreading it around as fuel for this never ending contention between "fanboys" and "haterz". Sure it'll generate the hits. Good journalism it's not. I know because I used to work for a (good ol' fashioned paper) magazine, and if I were the editor in chief of Engadget (or wherever), I would have sent one of my reporters to the nearest Apple Store with cash, gift cards, credit and debit cards to look into the matter 2 days ago.
I wonder what the policy is on returns/exchanges. Could you, for example, buy a 16gb iPod touch with cash or a giftcard and then exchange it for an iPhone?
was i the only one who picked up 'sex changes'?
If you paid with cash, they'll refund you by mailing you a check. If you paid by gift card, they'll refund you with a gift card. If you paid with credit card, they'll refund your credit card. If the product was opened they charge a 10% restocking fee. They don't issue "store credit."
So no, your clever scheme wont work.
My boss tried to buy the iPhone with giftcards and he was denied. When he told the salesperson that he wasn't going to be able to buy it, he/she suggested exactly what Allen was pondering.
That was on one of the first days of the change in policy, so perhaps it's not working any longer.
I'm on, tomorrow I'll sue Apple
Soon Apple will be printing their own money and you will only be allowed to pay with dollar bills with Steve Jobs' picture on it.
Haha, word bro...couldn't have said it better myself
apple gets a percentage of the AT&T revenues...can you really blame them for not wanting people to unlock the phone.
Can someone suggest another way for them to accomplish this goal? Although this seems extreme, it's really the only way I can think of to make sure they are not selling to unlockers...
It's probably not so much the "unlocking" part, either. After all, it's been established that unlocking is perfectly legal. And if you want to do that, you're still able to do it, provided you use plastic for your purchase (and don't fuckin' blame Apple if the next firmware update breaks the unlock and/or the phone).
What they want to prevent is unauthorized resellers buying iPhones by the dozens, and making shit load of money at the expense of all the other legitimate, authorized resellers.
I heard that unlocked iPhones are being sold for 700 Euros in Italy. That's like $1,000. That's a $600 markup. Now if it's a small-timer like me selling one or two of those to make a few bucks, it might be fine. But some of these resellers are selling unlocked iPhones by the hundreds, if not thousands (think about it, 250K sold to unlockers in the last quarter! Probably 80% of that was to professional resellers, not your average geek who wanted a new toy).
If you were a company, wouldn't you want to stop that? I sure would.
"If you were a company, wouldn't you want to stop that? I sure would."
A little hint: if Apple dosen't sell an iPhone, then no money is made from an ATT plan. So, $400 is a lot better than nothing, isn't it?
Let's see....
250,000 iPhones sold, that otherwise wouldn't have been, especially with your idea of phones being shipped to Europe.
Multiply by $400 each = $100 million in sales.
It doesn't really matter what anyone says: if a company turns down $100 million, they are stupid. End of story.
"if Apple dosen't sell an iPhone, then no money is made from an ATT plan"
Think again. As I said, most of the unlocked phones are probably going abroad. Europe, Canada, Japan, Southeast Asia. With the exception of Southeast Asia, all those regions are squarely in the target of Apple for near-future releases of the iPhone. Let's say 200,000 unlocked iPhones were sold to people abroad. And let's say, with a policy like this, they could have deterred half of those people from buying from unauthorized resellers, who would've had to wait till Apple gets around to releasing the iPhone in their country. That's 100,000 iPhones.
Now, since you seem to like math, let's do the calculation. Since the components of iPhones are estimated to cost $250
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/iphone-only-costs-250-to-make-rest-of-price-is-fanboy-tax-229664.php
Apple makes $150 per phone sold to unlockers and not a penny more. That'll make Apple's profit from those 200,000 phones @ 30 million.
Now, if they were able to deter just half of those resellers (becomes resellers WILL find a way to buy iPhones no matter what Apple does), that's 100,000 phones @ $150 each, so Apple still makes $15 million.
But the other 100,000 would be sold to the end user directly from Apple when the iPhone is finally released in their countries. Let's just say half of those people would have lost interest in the iPhone by then. That's still 50,000 people, who will buy the iPhone directly from Apple. And, as estimates have it, Apple makes, not $150, but $580 PER PHONE, when the phone is sold with an exclusive contract with a cell provider (like AT&T):
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/apple-gets-831-for-every-iphone-sold-thanks-to-att-payments-316114.php#c2802192
So, 50,000 customers at $580 = $29 million
So, in terms of profits, Apple would make 15+29 = $44 million (instead of $30 million).
See how this works?
I mean, really, no offense, but you can be certain that the collective brain power over at Apple headquarters definitely exceeds yours by a mile. They've thought it out.
This is just to stop unlocking resellers from making money on eBay. Speaking of eBay, one can easily get an iPhone from eBay instead of The Apple Store.
And where do you think the people on eBay get their phones?
Next they'll say you can't buy something for cash (say in the $400 range), then return it and get an iPhone instead...
Buy 100 iPhones on your credit card for $400, turn around and sell them to unlockers at a "cash premium" price of $410 and pocket your $1k profit
(dp)
That's the point. If you try to buy 100 iPhones with your credit card, they're going to mark you as an unauthorized reseller and refuse to sell you that many.
If this is really the case, At&t must really be paying Apple a lot of money for this contract of exclusivity. I wonder how much they are getting.
The fact that Apple is at liberty to refuse to accept cash for the iPhone has been hashed and re-hashed out over the past few days. I'd be rather more interested in the legality of denying the use of previously purchased gift cards. Gift cards aren't very well regulated on the federal level, falling more under a tangled network of state legislation. I would not be at all surprised if an after-purchase restriction on the usage of a gift card fell afoul in at least one locale.
actually if a business offers a gift card, no matter the form of payment they cannot refuse to accept it as payment, they sold the gift card to the customer under the promise, and legal obligation of that card being acceptable payment. Under gift card laws they are required that the gift card have no expiration and no fees with the exception of the card exceeding a 24 month inactivity period or a balance of less then $5, then the fee cannot exceed $1/month. Also in New Jersey ALL other restictions must be printed on the card.
this is total bs. someone just gave me a $200 apple gift card for my bday to be used towards the purchase of an iphone. im an apple fan boy, but ever since this iphone launch they keep getting to be more and more ridiculous. i hope this blows up in their face.
Please let us know if they accept your gift card along with a credit card for the total purchase price. Happy Birthday, btw.
Thank Sean, I'll post something here when I find out.
Jeff,
I feel for you man. I figured this would end up affecting ordinary folks who just wanted a legitimate device. Im sure you can find a way somehow. It was stated before that Gift Card laws are different from Credit Card/Cash dealings. I would look into that avenue. Good luck man and please give us an update. And oh yeah HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU.
Thanks John, maybe if I put half down on gift card and half on my card the will honor it. I hope Apple will revisit this soon. I'm not sure how it is in other parts of the country, but they're not exactly hard to come by here. You can walk into the Apple store and AT&T store and purchase one easily. It's been like that since the launch.
I have an update here. I called the Apple store and they said that I could use the gift card towards the purchase of the iPhone b/c the gift card amount was for less than the total. I would have to put $100 on my card. So that's cool...I guess.
"Would you like to buy some itchy and scratchy money?"
"Whats that?"
"Its money thats made just for the park. It works just like regular money but its, uh, fun."
"Do it dad."
"Well, okay if its fun. Lets see, I'll take eleven hundred dollars worth."
"AW"
"WE DONT TAKE ITCHY AND SCRATCHY MONEY"
"WE DONT TAKE ITCHY AND SCRATCHY MONEY"
"NO ITCHY AND SCRATCHY MONEY"
"NO I AND S MONEY"
6 months ago, Steve Jobs was losing sleep because he couldn't WAIT for customers to get their hands on an iPhone. I think tonight he is losing sleep knowing how he has betrayed them again and again... over a phone.
Many people (like myself) have only been introduced to Apple with the iPhone, and considering it's unlocked on T-Mobile's network and i already gave Apple 400$ of my money, I have no regrets. Apple wants 831$ out of me for a phone? Get lost, iPhone Dev Team apps are good enough for me :)
Apple Retail Stores which don't take cash:
WTF... Why is my post being truncated?
"Apple Retail Stores which don't take cash... 172 in 36 states"
"AT&T Retail Stores which accept cash, credit cards, debit cards and food stamps... 172995 in 50 states"
"Apple's Stupidity... PRICELESS"
Apple Retail Stores which don't take cash -
Hey, iFans, get over it... Apple is still not on your side.
Honestly, in the real world, how many people are going to give a gift card so someone can buy a iphone? The phone requires has 2 year agreement with a minimum total service cost of $2000+ after taxes...It is like "buying" someone a car by paying the first monthly payment and then telling them they are on their own for the next 59 payments. If those "teens" are scrounging for gift cards to buy it, what are they going to be doing when those monthly $90+ monthly bills start showing up?
Once again, how is this anything remotely different than any other cell phone retailer would do Gift cards are not going to get you a contract phone you can walk out the store with unless you go through a credit check/on the spot activation at any other retail store...I give props for Apple for not wanting to turn their stores into the gallery of the damned that most other retail cell phone stores are with a line of people waiting to go through a lengthly application process. For all the bitching and moaning going on here, the logical thing for Apple to do is to stop selling them in their stores completely and just sell them online with a required activation process built into the sale and leave the B&M market to AT&T to deal with.
uh, a more accurate model would be someone paying for your car and then you pay for insurance, gas, and service charges. The family is probably already paying a cell phone bill, so the additional cost of an iPhone isn't as large as the whole monthly cost, which the teen might have to cover out of their own pocket to the tune of 30-40 a month, something fairly easily covered by any job when your parents are paying your living expenses.
Thanks for help making my point...if the teen's parents (or other third party) are paying for the bill, shouldn't they be the people buying the phone, since it will be that party and not the teen reponsible for paying the bill? In this case it is far more likely that the parents will buy the iphone (since the big ticket item is hard for the youngster to save up for) and that the teen will chip in for service costs back to the parents (as well as some minor savings under a family plan).
"If those "teens" are scrounging for gift cards to buy it, what are they going to be doing when those monthly $90+ monthly bills start showing up?"
Here's a good scenario. I (who work in IT, am over 30, and make a very good salary) want an iPhone. People ask me what I want for Christmas this year. I really want an iPhone, yet nobody (besides my wife) really wants to spend $299 on a phone for me. However they may spend $50, 75, 100, etc on an Apple gift card. On Dec 26, I can go to the Apple store and get my iPhone for free or cheaper.
I can most definitely pay my AT&T bill each month and have for the past 32 months. Yet I want to get an iPhone for Christmas. I used my family and friends to get me something I wanted for a holiday.
Don't like Christmas, replace it with birthday, etc.....
Something similar happened with my last computer (Powerbook) - got around $200 in Apple Gift cards for my B-day and that went towards this laptop.
Just because you use a gift card to pay doesn't mean you can't afford it or are a kid.
Ryan, I admire your ability to deal with these clowns.
As the previous posts covered, no one is contesting apple's right to accept only certain kinds of payment. However, the question that needs to be asked is, is it fair???
In our society we get so caught up with statues and regulations we take out every bit of humanity from our simple interactions.
Can anyone tell the fine readers of ANY retailer I'm recent history denying customers a very sprcific product due to their prefered method of payment?
Every cell provider would love for their phones to be locked to their network, understood, but the extremes that Apple is going to with this device is surely unlike any before.
This is certainly Apple InCORPORATED, not the freindly apple Computer we all used to know... I feel like I'm losing an old friend to drugs.
"Can anyone tell the fine readers of ANY retailer I'm recent history denying customers a very sprcific product due to their prefered method of payment?"
Why make the criteria so specific as to make it unnecessarily difficult to come up with an example? Apple obviously had to make the iPhone an exception at their retail stores because it is an exceptional product: it's selling like hotcakes, it's getting snatched in droves by unauthorized resellers (perhaps close to 20% of the entire sales), and it's deeply tangled in the web of their partnership with AT&T. It's clearly a different beast. So the fact that it's a "very specific product" shouldn't be an issue of contention.
I mean, does it suddenly make it OK if Apple decided to go "plastic only" for ALL of their products?
And, if you make your question more general: "Can you name a retailer that limits services and/or products to certain forms of payment?", then the answer is a VERY clear YES. They are all over the place. Cash only; check only; check or credit only; you name it, they're out there.