Chicago Shell stations trialing biometric payment systems
By Darren Murph 
posted November 1st 2007 8:25AM
posted November 1st 2007 8:25AM
posted November 1st 2007 8:25AM
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So how long before rather than a bunch of cloned credit cards your conman is carrying around a selection of chopped off fingers to pay for his petrol? hehe, does that sound too pessimistic?
The pessimistic statement are the people like me. Who won't use it for the germs, cooties and flu virii that are going to be deposited on the scanner.
Just imagine, smack dab in the middle of flu season, Joe Schmoe (with apologies to the Schmoe family) comes in wiping his dripping nose with his fingers, swipes for his fill-up.
I use my sleeves to push open the doors now, so I can't imagine physical contact with a common device.
BTW, yes I do have liquid antibac solution in my car though..
Oh, instead of FP scanners (which are notoriously finicky, like the one on my laptop) I might accept a retina or facial scanner.
Eyes and Faces are must more icky to cut off.
If I give the machine a mushroom stamp will it work? I'm guessing you probably have to first register with it that machine.
This makes me think of those movies where they cut someones hand/finger off to gain access to a building.
Will people soon be hacking off limbs rather than stealing cash/cards?
the idea of biometric most anything always bears the burden of protecting the identification info. aside from privacy concerns, i worry when the state talks about biometric id cards because i am concerned that theyll leave the data vulnerable to attack, obviously. in my state of ohio, over 1 million state empoloyess had their personal data 'lost,' a backup tape was heisted from some interns car.
although i would trust private companies to operate more efficiently, i dont think i can trust them to de-spookify the spectre of having all that data.
happy all saints' day
yeah, just to update your comment about ohio, I think you are combining two separate problems, I know the backup tape that got stolen from the interns car had information on people who had not cashed their income tax refund (me) and I got a letter in the mail saying my name was on the tape.
In Fargo North Dakota, we've had this same pay by touch system for over a year at all of our major super value grocery stores.
Just like people check payphones for spare change, in Fargo you could check wood chippers for spare fingers.
They do that in all the Piggly Wigglys in Georgia too.
Yep, I work at Hornbacher's...
So going inside and swiping a finger is now faster than staying outside near the car and swiping a card? Riiight.
All of our Jewel grocery stores here in Chicago offer pay by touch...
but theres no evil doers up there that dont just use a wood chipper right? i dont see a hand coming out of there viably
I fail to see the advantage to this, same with speedpass...how much more time do you need to save by NOT using your credit/debit card?
I hear you on that one molstrbe, in Iowa we've had pay by touch at many Hy-Vee grocery stores for a couple years now too, this is old news.
These were installed at a local grocery chain earlier this year.
Massive failure.
This is not news. They've had them at the Jewel grocery stores in Chicago for about a year. Yawn.
I love PBT, it means I can buy booze at the local Jewel without carrying my ID :D
As previous few comments say we've had these in Chicago at Jewel stores for a while. Me being an early adopter and all up for the convenience I signed up just to realize that it's much slower than using debit/credit cards. And FYI you DO NOT use debit/credit card with it. You link this service to your card or bank account and then only need a finger at the store... So first you select how to pay (Pay by touch). Then you need your 7 DIGIT PIN CODE (WTF??? ). After that you get some other confirmation screen, then another one and after that it's finally complete. Thee whole process is longer than using debit card alone and I don't think this will last just like the Mobil gas station "Wave to pay" keychain failed.
Maciek
www.symbiosis60.com
Glad we've all decided that because some people have it in their town everyone knows about it. Boo to you, Engadget, for not realizing that everyone who reads your blog is up to date on all the goings on in Chicago!
This is just another Big Brother attempt to get our finger prints on record so wherever we go to pay gas the goverment if they wanted to, could make shell give the finger print logs that were recently used so they would know 2 things for sure. It HAS to be you, and where you are and likely to be headed. Now with the goverment trying to put chips in your passport so they know where you are ALL the time and getting people to put rfid chips in your skin on the underside of your wrist by using terrorist scare tactics such as 9/11. Which the goverment had a hand in causing. Looking at pictures of wreckage you see support beams that are cut diagonally which is a tactic used by building demolisher's in order to make a building fall fast and straight down(pancake fashion) without harming other buildings. Of course you can believe this if want but your american or canadian dollars are just legal tenders meaning they completely worthless so in other words you are basically working your ass off at your desk job or minimum wage job for what? paper? it's the humanity's eternal slavery.
That can't be true could it? Someone prove me wrong. Someone give life a meaning. I'd love to be proven wrong. Who wants to live in a world like that...
Happy Halloween. ^_____^
-James
(let the flaming begin xD)
I guess the 300 million people that live here. This is not a discussion on 9/11, so don't turn it into one.
PBT sounds nice, but unecessary. It doesn't take me much more time to swipe my credit card.
Sorry bout' that.
Even if every person of that 300 million knew and did something about it. It can't be stopped.
Sorry bout the 9/11 Reference?
someones seen zeitgeist and/or loose change
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501
Both ^__^
the main benefit is that you don't have to carry your 'gas card' with you everywhere. less likely to get stolen, lost, etc. it's also particularly useful if you have a spouse or teenager listed as an authorized user on your account. it eliminates the need for them to have a physical card.
You don't need to chop off someone's fingers. The Mythbusters showed how you can fool most fingerprint scanners with a friggin PHOTOCOPY of someone's fingerprint. Not very secure, in my opinion.
Its not about convenience (though it is more convenient). Its about REDUCED RISK. That little 1-3% transaction fee to use a credit card (not to mention the 3.25% PayPal takes) has to do with a piece of plastic that someone else could use, thereby increasing the risk assumed by electronic payment facilitators (VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX, etc). Retailers pay this because these forms of payment are so popular, but even Wal-Mart/SAM's won't pay the fee for accepting credit cards (save a chosen one or two) because it cost them too much money.
YOU CAN'T COPY SOMEONE'S FINGERPRINT, hence this risk factor is greatly reduced. Retailers love this b/c its linked to your electronic methods of payment (you register once, you can even link multiple cards to your account) but they don't pay near the same fee for you to use it.
1-2% off transactions is a SHIT-TON of money in their pockets (and out of VISA's, etc.), not to mention reduced fraud and added convenience.
THIS IS A DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGY (read: watch for the IPO)
You can't? The MythBusters disagree.
We've had these for over a year now in East TN.
This way I won't have to worry about loosing my credit card or forgetting my wallet at home, great improvement.
http://www.webyaa.com/category/technology
Would you guys stop with MythBusters?
What they spoofed in a very silly way is a specific optical sensor and also an old model. They've looked into a very little selection of readers and tried to make a show after it.
The PBT reader is not optical. There are ways to spoof it as well but please try to do it and let everybody know about your progresses!
Just one more thing: try to spoof the fingers of somebody who is not collaborating!
How do they and how often do they sterilize these things?
"Trialing"?!?!
What the hell kind of tortured language is that? How about "trying"?
I was about to ask the same thing. "Trialing" is not a word. The word you are looking for is "testing." Or, as the user above suggested, "trying."
Sheesh.
1. Imagine the germs on this thing. It could easily be worse than a payphone after a few days.
2. I don't like going inside at the gas station. In twelve years of driving, I have gone in maybe 4 times. If the pump I pull up to says I have to go in, I'll go to a different station.
3. Don't you have to carry your wallet anyway? Where do you put your license?
4. If you really want to speed up my gassing experience, create a pump that can force 10 gallons of fuel into my car in under 30 seconds. Paying takes almost no time in comparison to waiting for the goods.
I envision huge lines of maniacs with a bunch of chopped fingers on a key chains buying gasoline.
THE PAY BY TOUCH SERVICE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT ANY
WARRANTIES OR REPRESENTATIONS WHATEVER OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED.
From the site:
Pay By Touch will not be liable or responsible for any damage or injury caused by your use of the Service. You agree that this Agreement will be governed and interpreted under the laws of the State of California and that any disputes shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the state and federal courts located in San Francisco.
I filled up at Shell not too far from home last night, about 40 miles SW of the city.
There's biometric scanners right on the pump.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=197th+street+and+la+grange+road,+mokena,+IL&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.114675,59.238281&ie=UTF8&ll=41.542401,-87.851154&spn=0.001851,0.003616&t=h&z=18&om=1
Yeah, I won't be putting my fingers on that, thanks.
We've been using biometric systems in gas stations in Portugal since 2004, and as far as I know, the number of chopped fingers didn't increase that much...
I checked on this Pay By Touch (aka Solidus Networks) company because it sounded like an interesting investment op. They have a few law suits against them. One just showed up in LA for Bankruptcy. I think I will keep my fingers to my self for now!
We have Pay by Touch on our Hy-Vee Grocery stores here in the Tri-States (MO,IL,IA) and are very nice to use.
Pay By Touch has indeed been forced into involuntary bankruptcy.
Well, "pay by touch" is a euphemism. What they really mean is "pay by fingerprint".
Already the marketing is a warning to steer clear.
Steer clear of this! The CEO and Founder of Pay By Touch is getting sued for sexual harassment, wrongful termination, and nepitism (I didn't know that could happen either). The Senior VP of HR was investigating two seperate sexual harassment cases that the CEO was involved in. He fired her and hired his mom to take her place. Recently, half of the Board of Directors (this included the COO) walked out due to the firing of a big whig over an agrument...nothing else. Also, their $300 million they raised a little over a year ago is already gone and have recently told the staff to stay at home as they cannot pay them. On a conference call, the Senior VP of field services said that if he sees anybody looking for a job when he walks by their desk...he'll look the other way. Bottom line....STEER CLEAR!!!