We were
wondering how well HD DVD was doing with those new price cuts, and now here's Video Business with the answer: according to sources at retailers,
Wal-Mart,
Best Buy and Circuit City -- among others -- were able to move 90,000 stand-alone HD DVD players this weekend. Most of them were last year's entry level
HD-A2, which sold for the low, low price of $99 --
but not all. This dramatically increases the user base for the HD DVD camp, but that's not saying much since the format only
sold about this many stand-alone players in its first year. In the world of consumer electronics, 90k isn't that impressive, but considering the estimated loss Toshiba took on each unit, we can see why they'd want to limit the supply. The problem for the HD DVD camp is that they're really up against the PS3's sales, and even though only 40% of
PS3 owners realize that there is a Blu-ray player built in, that's still about 750,000 people in the US. But ultimately, this format war is about selling movies, and we'll be keeping a close eye on the
weekly sales numbers to assess the impact of this early holiday sales blitz.
[Thanks, Utah!]
posted Nov 7th 2007 9:58AM
Wow, that's a lot of sales.
...
...
...
...
...
In before fanboys.
in after the wanker
In after the ... or was it before the ...
Regardless, I picked up the A2. It's amazingly pretty. =D
"and even though only 40% of PS3 owners realize that there is a Blu-ray player built in"
Are they serious?! Are people really that ignorant? Doesn't it say Blu-ray on the box or something? I don't get that, it's ridiculous. Do that many people buy something and not really know what they're getting?
Ugh...
GR
You have to realize most people see "Playstation" and think of ONLY PLAYING GAMES...not watching movies. Blu-Ray or no Blu-Ray. The other problem with mainstream America is that the term "Blu-Ray" means absolutely nothing to them. The term "HD-DVD" given the existing knowledge of what a DVD is and what HD is...is a given. People just understand that term better. Take my mom for instance...she has an HDTV, DVR and a regular DVD player. I asked her if she had heard of HD-DVD and what it was...she knew. I then asked if she knew was Blu-Ray was. She said she had heard about it in a commercial for a new Disney movie, but thought it was a special feature of the disc. I know that's a super-small sample size, but I've always used my mom as a barometer of consumer understanding as she's usually dead-on.
People are just stupid these days.
HD DVD just sounds like the next format. What do you replace your TV with? An HDTV! What will you replace your DVDs with? HD DVDs. That is the sole reason that I'm convinced HD DVDs will win in the end. Because whatever blu-ray might gain temporarily, ignorance and familiarity will win out in the end. Of course, I'm not willing to buy any HD-DVD/blu-ray disks or players until one does win, but still, I think HD DVD's going to triumph in the end.
> Do that many people buy something and not really know what they're getting?
Fact: people are ignorant.
(BTW, that's what the whole service industry lives off.)
I personally often buy multi-functional devices while never really expecting to use even a half of presented functions. For me and you Blu-ray is something close - but to others (== most consumers) this is just another buzzword from yesterday's commercial.
People do want to watch movies. People do NOT want to be specialists in disk formats. And harder HD DVD/Blu-ray would push their formats, bigger ignorance wall would build up inside of people.
Yes people are stupid 1/2 the people don't know that they ARE NOT watching HD programing on their HDTV
Only 20% of PS3 owners have ever played a BD movie in their PS3. It's also worth noting that less than 50% of PS3 owners have an HDTV so BD means nothing to them.
BD helped the format when it was released, but standalone sales will be what determines the winner.
The only problem with the HD-DVD name is there are ignorant people out there who think you can put an HD-DVD in a regular DVD player. I didn't quite realize this until I looked at the Amazon reviews for Planet Earth[HD-DVD]. Everyone who saw it gave it 5 stars and everyone else said the discs didn't work in their DVD players... amazing.
Ratio for Blu ray Vs HD-DVD sales. 2:1 in US, 4:1 in europe, 9:1 in japan and people really are trying to believe that it is the stand alones creting this disparity?
yeah.... sure.... PS3 owners have no clue about blu ray....
Surely one can expect the movie sales to increase...I dont think these people are buying them to look at on their shelves...like the PS3 which has no gam...oh this is about movies, sorry
Agreed... I picked mine up on Monday because my local Walmart's shipment was late, and even though they marked the price up a whole dollar it was still going for under 100 bones. I didn't see people buying them myself, but I will say the difference in stock on HD-DVD endcap between Friday morning and Monday afternoon when I finally got mine was pretty telling. What had been a previously full rack was now missing all it's copies of Transformers, and all but a handful of Heroes Season 1, as well as the under 20 bucks titles like Borne Supremacy, The Italian Job, The Mummy and Batman Begins. Lucky for me, there was still one copy left of the Planet Earth series, which looks unfreakin' believable on my 65" 1080i TV. Even on a 2 year old midrange 5.1 setup, the difference of the higher audio bitrate really stands out compared to regular DVD's too.
I just wish those tools at the ACCS or CCS or whatever their group is called would pull the 'no upconvert over component cables' restriction and stop punishing those of us who were the first to drink the HiDef KoolAid. Like it's my fault HDMI wasn't even a concept when my set was built. Well whatever... I should be getting my 5 free movies in the mail either right before or right after Christmas anyway so that'll shut me up somewhat.
Include me as one of the 90,000 new HD DVD owners out there.
Welcome to the brotherhood, now go forth into the perilous internets and fight for the cause of red in its quest to take down the blu Goliath.
:D
(j/k I'm neutral format neutral)
WOW thats alot like this article,
but replace the consoles with high definition players.(ps3=bluray/ 360=hd dvd)
"For the longest time, videogames and men have been synonymous with each other. Not to say that women do not play games, because recent data shows that the participation by women in games is increasing. However, on a broader scale, two thirds of all men between the ages of 18 and 34 own a videogame console. So what point are we trying to reach exactly? Simple, this isn’t the 1980s where console gaming isn't accepted by all men; today most men play videogames on a regular basis and women out in the dating field have a pretty high chance of running into a male gamer.
So for your ladies out there, here are some general stats recovered by three influential individuals. Carl Arinoldo, a NY based psychologist, Ted Owen, a CEO of GGL which is an online gaming network, and Shane Satterfield, Editor in Chief of GameTrailers.com.
They all gave their opinions about what a games consoles such as the PS3, Wii and Xbox 360 can describe about a man. Here is what they thought of the PS3 in relation to men...
Arinoldo: He believes that a PS3 user may imply that the guy is an early-adopter, meaning that he likes to be one of the first to have things. He also believes that because of the initial high price point, it may show that he could have “money in the bank”.
Owen: He mentioned that a PS3 owner is the 21st Century individual who loves gaming and wants the best quality out of his experience….and possibly his women. The PlayStation 3 owner also lives life to the fullest and is sophisticated, intelligent, enjoys competition, and is willing to wait a long time (i.e. in the launch line) for a good thing. Finally, he is also very loyal.
Satterfield: He explains that the PS3 male is in the know. Knows the right people, goes to the finest restaurants, night clubs, and doesn’t have to wait in line. This guy is very difficult to keep up with as he is “always” working and when he is not, he uses videogames as the opportunity to experience leisure.
Ladies...our PS3s are warm and we're ready and waiting!"
Odd isnt it?
Wow! And I thought the PS3 early adopter was the kind of guy who lives in his mothers basement and has too much time on his hands.
LOL, Not quite, I think thats the 360, jk
FANBOY SECURITY ENABLED!
I actually got two players this weekend. (ended up selling one to a friend) I'm courious to see how the HD movie sales stand up with the onslaught of blu-ray releases this week.
Most HD DVD owners probably just think it's a slightly better DVD player or even just buy it cos at $100 it's better to buy this than a standard DVD player. It doesn't actually mean they will then go out and get HD DVDs instead of DVDs.
I would tend to disagree. HD DVD is a well known term already and I bet people would give it a try if they own HD DVD player. Especially when they get 5 free HD DVDs from Toshiba.
I have Blockbuster online service (about the same as Netflix), and I started to rent HD DVDs already, which costs me nothing extra. But I ordered some on Amazon, just to have my own copies.
disagree,hddvds name implies next generation dvd. the name is self explainatory
regular price is not 99bucks, its slightly under $200
dvd player prices are 30-40 bucks, even 99 bucks is double to triple current dvd player costs, so i don't think people will think they are "almost the same". peoples price expectations have been changed by dvd.
"what happens when the 60% realize thier ps3 plays blu ray? hmmm..........."
by that time really cheap players will be out. like the number of normal dvd players to ps2's...the ps2 is insignificant and only a few teen boys even bother using it as a dvd player. the mainstream swings on price and their numbers simply render console gaming let alone ps3 customer base insignificant.
i got one too, although i don't buy that many dvds to begin with. i'm mostly a netflix person
Count me in as a new adopter of HD DVD
Also my gf's father picked one up and he doesn't even own an HDTV. He's getting one of those Black Friday and wanted to view HD content on it. For $99 you couldn't go wrong. At the very least it's one of the best upconverting DVD players out.
Completely agree! Several of my friends got it because it is a great upconverting player and it plays HD DVDs... for $100!
I got one in WalMart, they were out of stock in 15 minutes (the store only had about 20 of them).
BTW, WalMart announced that sale would start at 8am, but by 8am all players were already consumed.
If Blu-Ray player price will go down to $100, I would get it too... and then I would not care of who wins the format war.
It is going to be very difficult for the BDA to respond to sales like this. After all, the BDA's "platform" to the C/E OEMs has been (to this point) "we're going to keep margins high". Hence, unless they decide to change that strategy (which, if they do, risks losing C/E OEM support), they won't be in a position to battle it out with HD DVD in the stand-alone market. Lets be clear on one thing: the "PS3 effect" is largely over. Blu-ray cannot win this war soley on the back of gamers who also want to rent/buy BD discs . . . it's too narrow of a demographic. The PS3 has been valueable to BD so far, but that value is diminishing not increasing.
> It is going to be very difficult for the BDA to respond to sales like this.
They can always go to court and complain about price dumping. Though market is only developing so BDA hardly would be able to claim any direct damages. As well, I believe that BDA'a hands (exclusive deals == monopoly) are as unclean as of HD DVD camp.
I noticed a ton of these on ebay, so I wonder how many were purchased to try and resale on ebay? I'm guessing maybe half.
Are you serious? I doubt there are 45,000 listings for a brand new HD-A2 on eBay.
My local BestBuy sold out of the A2's, so I bought a A3 instead and now have 5 free HD-DVDs with 5 more on the way.
anyone want to buy a betamax vcr?
Every time I hear the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray argument, and someone inevitably tells me that Blu-Ray technology is superior (it is, arguably, but I'm not trying to start a flame war here), I always counter with "and Beta was worlds superior to VHS, but all that mattered to buyers back then was the fact you could record 8 hours on VHS but only 5 and a half on Beta" (or something like that).
In the end, it doesn't matter what's best, it's what's cheapest. Not my belief, it's just how it happens.
All that said, I'm not buying either. I'll stick with regular ol' DVDs until it all goes digital delivery in about 5 years.
@ralph if average consumers cant figure out what blu-ray is on the ps3 box, what makes you think they will understand how to download movies?
i dont care what all you guys say it will be a lot longer than 5 years before this is the norm. most of my relatives have really old computers that could only store about 3 regular dvd's on the whole hard drive, but there would be no room for anything else. a few have dial-up because they live in the country and satalite internet is flippin expensive. then ow do you expect most people to even understand how to get a tv hooked up to the computer. my system could handle it, i have a very good connection, and plenty of hard drive space, but i dont want all this to happen anytime soon. i like having the hard copy, no one can take it away from me, and i dont have to worry about system crashes making me download them again. not to mention the amount of time it would take to download with current technology.
Betamax VS blu ray fails on all counts. Sony is not the sole backer of Blu ray. Sony cannot limit the licensing of hardware (there is a board). There is a tremendous amount of support from the biggest companies in the movie industry. And content and capicity is larger on Blu ray.
All in all, Blu ray has more elements in common with VCR tapes but lets not let that get in the way of your obviously unbiased and informed opinion.
Let's not forget the most important distinction between this and beta/vhs:
The physical media are the same.
That means in a few years, when the 'war' is over, the software required to play both formats will be in every single player on the market. Then... and this is important... NO ONE WILL CARE.
This entire 'war' is ridiculous. In the end, everyone will be able to play all discs, no matter their origin.
...unless they're Blu-ray discs from another country.
I love it. Now all i need to do is wait for MGS4 to buy the PS3!
Gotta have em both!
I refuse to buy an HD or BluRay player when it's only a matter of time before physical media is trumped by download/stream to wifi. Of course it's already happening...but it's not perfect yet. In the meantime, my regular DVD player (connected to my HDTV) will do.
-------The problem for the HD DVD camp is that they're really up against the PS3's sales, and even though only 40% of PS3 owners realize that there is a Blu-ray player built in, that's still about 750,000 people in the US. But ultimately, this format war is about selling movies ----------
These are the truest words I have ever heard Engadget speak...THANK YOU.
I've been saying this same thing since before the PS3's release date.
I knew along time ago, PS3 and Blu Ray would help each other succeed simply because the vast majority of gamers out there were going to be sure to purchase a PS3 even faster than typical home theater enthusiasts would be to run out and buy an HDDVD or BLU RAY dedicated player.
SONY knew that the PS3 would do for Blu Ray what the PS2 did for DVD's.
Back in JAPAN during the PS2's release DVD was fasing out VCD's and the average DVD player typically cost over $800 (without progressive scan). PS2 was a low priced out-of-the box DVD PLAYER which was less than $400 and therefore, many Japanese stores stocked it as a DVD player even though they did not traditionaly sell VIDEO GAME SYSTEMS.
VCD vs. DVD is a format war that is almost never talked about or mentioned because DVD killed VCD on arrival with its higher definition sound and picture.
SONY realizes that the future of products is CONVERGENCE and that -even if you must sell your product at a loss - convergence can keep a new format alive, and lack there of can ensure its demise.
I KEEP SAYING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN... by refusing to place an HDDVD player in the XBOX360, MICROSOFT has ensured HDDVD will never become the mainstream format.
90,000 HDDVD players sold means nothing compared to the sales of BLU RAY through PS3 and even through dedicated computer drives and players. The only reason this particular player is selling is due to it being CHEAP.
Um...okay fanboy. This isn't Japan. America never even SAW VCD's. In fact, I don't know of ANY PS2 owners that actually utilized it's DVD playback option on a regular basis. Every single PS2 owner that I knew back in the day, still had a standalone DVD player. To say that the PS3 will do for Blu-Ray what the PS2 did for DVD is saying that it's gonna be a whole lotta nuthin'.
40% of people with PS3s realize their PS3 can play blu-ray disks, much less use them. That kind of shuts down your argument right there. Japanese stores sold PS2s as DVD players? No one sells the PS3 just as a blu-ray player, and compare its pricepoint to that of HD DVD players (a la this article). Convergence may be the future, but we haven't converged on the next format yet. Microsoft cuts costs by not bundling HD DVD with the 360, but still allows people to add on that capability. Claiming that the PS3 will cause blu-ray to ultimately win is rather counterintuitive, as people are not buying it OR USING IT as a blu-ray player.
@DickHArdknocks
"I KEEP SAYING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN... by refusing to place an HDDVD player in the XBOX360, MICROSOFT has ensured HDDVD will never become the mainstream format."
BOOOOOO!!! Thats a load of 2005 crap if i've ever heard... The 360 was smart enough to give the consumer the choice of adding the HD-DVD support to the 360... So considering nearly 40% of the PS3 community has no clue they play blu-rays, dont you think that was a smart move on Microsofts part??
Not every 360/ps3 owner even OWNS at high def TV, so why force them to buy a high def player for their SDTV??
Sony forced ps3's to have a blu-ray, causing the prices to be so spiked... The 360 gently added in at 399 which was unbelieveably reasonable...
So basically you have this oversized Folding@Home flopper that no one knows plays blu-ray movies...
But trust me, if blu-ray players were $99, i'd buy one in a heart beat... Oh wait, they are already obsolete due to Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0 with no way to update them unless you own a ps3...
But what you're forgetting is that even more important than convergence is cost. yeah, there are a lot of PS3s out there. But it's also really expensive (as a standalone player) and a lot of people buying it are buying it for its gaming ability. Yes, there are people buying it as a Bluray player, but they're not in the majority.
As much as people would hate to admit it, it's the average consumer, the wal-mart shoppers that'll spend $99 on a DVD player instead of $399 on a game console, that makes these things a success or a failure.
What idiot came up with 40%? Assuming 3/5 of us are idiots, what makes you think they'll know about hd-dvd?
Heck, even in the ps1 days everyone knew they were able to play cds.The vast majority of consumers know the possible features of the hardware they just bought.
@shuyin198x
The 40% comes from a poll done recently, while not exactly scientific, it gives does give us a descent picture of PS3 owners who know of and use Blu-ray feature for movies.
The point is not whether people know about HD-DVD. The point is that all HD-DVD players, including the Xbox 360 add-on were purchased for the very reason to use them as a HD-DVD player.
On the other hand, not all Blu-ray players (PS3) are being used as Blu-ray players because either people don't care to or don't know that they even can.
This is the one big point of controversy behind player numbers. Obviously Sony and the BDA want all the PS3's counted and in fact use those number to inflate the actual numbers.
Though, with the head of steam HD-DVD has going into Q4 through the end of the year, those PS3 numbers may not mean much anymore.
andyg8180
Please read what you wrote. By forcing people to purchase a game system with Blue-Ray capabilities Sony does have the one up on MS.
You just made your comment null by adding that MS gives you the option.
Example.
If there were 8 million 360's but only 2million opted to buy the HD-DVD add on how would they beat 4 million PS3's that already have the BR hardware built in?
But, like I stated earlier...
-only 40% of PS3 owners know about the Blu-Ray functionality
-only 20% of PS3 owners have ever played a Blu-Ray movie on their PS3
-less than 50% of PS3 owners have an HDTV
A BD player in the PS3 helps, but it's not the determining factor here. Price of standalone units is.
I've got a standalone BR player (used from craigslist for cheap - person didn't "get it"), and the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 (birthday present), so I'm pretty happy and don't care which wins, but if HD-DVD hardware sales climb, and the "number of movies per hardware units" stays the same, then BR is going to start slipping away. BR hardware needs to become cheaper, because the PS3 is what's keeping that movies per hardware ratio down, and here's why...
The PS3 isn't the answer for those who want an all-in-one experience, and no Home Theatre fan (or casual viewer) would ever REALLY want a PS3 as the Blu-Ray player because of it's Bluetooth remote. It's the reason I stayed away from the PS3. I'm not going to forego my Harmony remote just to resort to either the Sony remote (or *shudder* use the controller) when I want to watch a BR disc.
I figured for $99 I couldn't go wrong. I even use this now in place of my HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360. It looks good, up-converts great and looks awesome playing Transformers in HD DVD.
If Blue Ray ends up winning the battle, so be it, I'm only out $100 and some movies that I can still watch on this thing.
well, it will be definitely be a long wait. you should consider buying a BD or HD DVD to amuse yourself while waiting...
what happens when the 60% realize thier ps3 plays blu ray? hmmm...........
Why would I want convergence?
Give me two products that do their specific tasks very well rather than one that does one well with the other tacked on or simply does both half-assed.
...actually the PS3 is widely regarded as the best Blu-Ray player.
This is interesting as I have Planet earth on Blu-ray(arguably the best HD movie) and I think it looks OK on the PS3. I haven't seen it on a stand alone player yet.
I had the 360 HD player and I thought it looked OK but that combined with player noise and the 360 itself humming in the background I sold it.
So this weekend I bought the $200 A3(with a 12% off coupon) and got 10 free movies. So I can say after watching movies on my new 50" 1080p TV it is easily better than both game systems with regard to operation, and movie reproduction. So I see the PS3 as a stop gap to a real stand alone player if I ever get one. Again, the HD-DVD interface is better too. FYI most HD disc's I see are 2 layer 30GB and most bluray are 1 layer 25Gb(I've seen 1 layer hd-dvd's but no 2 layer bluray). It's like most PS3 games are 1080p and most 360 games are 1080p.
So for me HD-DVD is better(except I like the coating on blu-ray disc's better) in all respects regardless of price. With player at half the price and under $200 I think they have the nod. Please tell me if you watch movies on your PS2; that's want I bought it for but it sucked as a movie player.
I guess if you don't want convergence, you would be happy to carry one phone, one mp3 player, one pda, one portable dvd player, one gps, etc, instead of an all-in-one solution.
Count me in as one of the newest HD-DVD campers. Not only did I stand in the little ticket line for the HD-DVD player at Wally-mart (plus buying Transformers), I went out the next Sunday and bought a Vizio 42" LCD 1080p and the Toshiba A20 HD-DVD player AND Tomb Raider, Batman Begins, and Million Dollar Baby HD-DVDs. I went nuts this weekend.
I just recently help a friend of mine setup her new entertainment system, and she bought the A30 HD-DVD player along with all those free movies. I was blown away by the picture quality (300 and Chronicles of Riddick). I wanted one, bided my time, and caught the Walmart deal (for my flat rear projection) and Circuit City's 2 year no interest financing and bought the flat LCD and another player for another room.
I'm really not impressed with Blu-Ray from a price/performance perspective. THe picture quality is exactly the same as HD-DVD, yet the players are $200 more expensive???? And the price of Blu-Ray movies seems slightly more expensive than HD-DVDs. Even the guy at Circuit City told me that they were having a hard time selling Blu-Ray due to the price and HD-DVD gear keeps flying off the shelves.
And don't forget from a price/feature ratio, Blu-Ray is still trying to implement features that have been in the HD-DVD spec since day 1.
Forgot about that bro. Thanks. Also forgot to mention the little BD+ security oppsy that was implemented on Blu-Ray players and discs and caused newer movies not to work with older players.
Granted, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have online firmware updates, but who really wants or should do that at the consumer level? I haven't read about or seen a required firmware update for any HD-DVD player nor one that causes a movie not to work. Blu-Ray (and PS3) have firmware update after update to fix bugs and add/fix security features. HD-DVD has a few firmware updates, but nothing crucial or urgent. The A2 I bought ran Transformers beautifully. Newer disc, older generation player; not a problem.
I'm sure it's not necessarily the same everywhere, but at least where I live there actually weren't many titles sold. Granted, that could partially be because the players were bought as gifts, but all of the players were sold but none of the movies sold out even though Wal-Mart only has at the most 3 copies of most of the HD DVD or Blu Ray titles. I'm surprised that this deal did not have a limit of 1 per customer to it, though, because I'm sure that Toshiba did not want this deal to go to the people buying a second or third player or even want one person buying two players if they are really losing as much money as has been claimed on each player. The only way this deal helps them at all is if people go out and buy movies and this deal is not likely to make people who already own a player buy more movies, rather take away 3 or for potential movie sales to those people.
Haha! This guy Ben sounds pretty biased.
"This dramatically increases the user base for the HD DVD camp, but that's not saying much..."
I would argue that nearly 100,000 HD player of either format in a single weekend is saying a lot. Anyone know how many BD players are sold in a weekend? What about its highest selling weekend?
"In the world of consumer electronics, 90k isn't that impressive..."
Maybe not but it is very impressive in the HD movie market. Did it set a record for single weekend sales for either formats set top player? I would venture a bet that it did.
"...ultimately, this format war is about selling movies..."
That is correct, and with nearly 100,000 more HD DVD players on the market you are going to see them selling like hotcakes.
Congrats Ben on being the King of Spin!
That's not the first time he's been accused of bias. He's got a reputation for it from readers at EngadgetHD. People call it EngadgetBD. He's the primary reason I didn't vote for Engadget this year.
I have faith in Sony to completely screw up Blu-Ray.
They have a history of screwing up better formats. Betamax: Better quality and more reliable than VHS
Mini-Disc: LOL on this one
Mem Stick: Proprietary format. Tried it on cellphones and it failed. PSP is the only survivor.
Blu-Ray: Cheapest player is a PS3, probably lacks advanced features of stand alone players. The PS3 targets a small audience too.
The universal problem for Sony, PRICING!!! They suck at entering a new market and being competitive. The money isn't in the sale of the players, it's in the millions & millions of potentail Blu-Ray disc sales, Just like video games. If they made Blu-Ray cheap for 3rd party manufacturers they could make some headway.
I will buy a HD-DVD player not because it will win the format war but because Sony will lose just like every other time.
Cheap has a price.Anything cheap is always "cheap".
I would disagree with the mini disk point. The form factor alone made them better than cd players, which had to conform to the size of the cds. Aesthetics wise, mini disk players were nicer looking, but then came mp3 players.It quickly became obsolete.
It's good to see sales increase, which will create demand for more movie rentals. It's also good to see the retail price for HD DVD and Blue Ray discs coming down, but they still have a way to go.
I still a universal player is the best option.
"...good to see the retail price for HD DVD and Blue Ray discs coming down, but they still have a way to go."
Not if they can maintain a $99 price with backed inventory... For that price, its cheaper than many DVD upscalers (at least the ones one should care about).
I'll go buy 3-4 right now if I can get it for $99... I has beat on every occasion when I tried to get the $99 player and didn't buy it online either :(. I'm sure if another sale like this came about it would do just as well if not better, because the word spreads.
I was referring to the actual discs, not the players. I think $99 for the player is a great deal and a smart move by the HD DVD camp. I just wont be buying - but will rent - discs at their current price point.
Well, while to some ignorant consumers the name HD-DVD will sound like the next generation format, but I'm sure others will confuse "HD-DVD" with HD-upscaling DVD players.
I'd say it's a wash which format will be helped by consumer ignorance...
Ugh, that sound have been in response to Jerry and John towards the top...
You'd be surprised by how many people do make that mistake or how many people buy HD-DVD players without having an HD-DVD player because they think that they can automatically play them because they have a DVD player and a HDTV.
I think it'll be a while before you can get all the HD TV and HD films you want to see via internet distribution.
Main problem is bandwidth, I reckon for a whole household to use it as their main source of content, you'd need at least a 20mbps connection, something like that.
Another problem is that many ISPs have date caps which seriously cripples HD streaming from becoming mainstream.
Once those two factors change, online distribution of HD content should be at our doorsteps. Sadly though, I don't think that'll happen for a while.
I'd buy a ps3 if it had a Hd-dvd built in.
@cap'n
I wouldn't hold my breath. Downloadable/streaming is a ways off from the average consumer. Besides, there are people out there that like to physically own the media, like me. Plus the media doesn't require hard drive space, you don't have to worry about storing it or constantly downloading it
I was also snagged one of the Wallyworld specials and it now sits next to my BluRay player. I'm happy with the unit so far. Had some trouble with the online/network connectivity, but one of those 36 updates seems to have eliminated that issue. With that type of connectivity the HD-DVD seems to have far more flexibility than the BluRay, but with Blockbuster only carrying BluRay discs my choice between the two was made early on. Once that choice was made I wasn't going to buy an HD-DVD player unless it was in the sub $150 range.
Blockbuster still rents HD-DVD's. In fact, they've been expanding HD-DVD's to more stores. One not too far from me just put up an HD-DVD section.
Unfortunately locations in my area don't carry any HD-DVD's only BluRay. What's funny is the only HD-DVD Blockbuster Online carries is called Digital Video Essentials. It's about what to do after buying an HD-DVD player. LOL!
I think the most important point is being missed here. That hd-dvd model doesn't support FULL HD!!! What is the sense of buying a nextgen HD player if it doesnt support FULL HD!!!
Full HD is anywhere from 720p to 1080i. your statement is completely wrong or were you being sarcastic?
The point is that many people have HDTVs that only support 720p or 1080i. Not everyone has the luxury of 1080p. Why on earth would someone spend extra money on a player that their TV is incapable of displaying the signal from?
I have a 1080p TV, a HD-A20, and a PS3 for Blu-Rays (I don't play games on it at all). I couldnt care less about who wins the war, because I am covered either way.
Now, having said that, I don't see SONY winning this war when there entry level player (PS3) is 4 times as expensive as the competition! DVD's mainstream adoption didn't begin until after they hit the $200 price point, so if SONY hopes to win this war they need to start taking a huge hit on the pricing for the player, because after the holidays, It's all over.
Perhaps because our TV's don't do "full HD"? I have a 720p set (32" where 1080p is a waste). I have no need of a 1080p player (I believe the HD-A3 will do "full HD").
Anyway, I agree what other people have been saying. At $100 bucks, this thing is a great up-converting DVD player that also plays HD-DVD. Since I have Netflix, I can just enable HD-DVD and they'll send those to me and I'll have HD. Also, for parents of "technology enthusiasts" (isn't "geek" easier to say) this is a good Christmas gift :).
Its been proven over & over again that 1080p doesnt mean squat when watching films at 24fps. The only difference is where the de-interlacing takes place, which is either the TV or the player. Both generally give you the same exact output once its displayed on your screen.
So, in that sense, 1080p is more or less a marketing gimmick, at least for normal use. It would benefit say if you were using your TV as a computer monitor for games & such, but not for movies. Plus, the standard for HD broadcasts is 720p/1080i & thats not gonna change for a long LONG time. Way too much bandwidth is required for 1080p & its just not necessary when you could get 1080i & let your TV do the de-interlacing.
THERE, now can we FINALLY get over this 1080p crap already??
Picked one up myself last Friday! Yeah $99 HD DVD!
Yea right, look how many ended up in ebay. and Mmmmm lets see. $100 player but movies cost around $30.
Yea I can see all the cheap-skates that bought these lashing out and buying HD-DVD Disks.
I believe most are buying to up-sample their DVDs
I was at a Fred Meyer in my area last night and saw a Sony display showing a 40" Bravia HDTV and a Blu-Ray Player playing Fantastic Four 2. Sure it was in full 1080p and it looked nice. The TV was priced at $1899 and the Blu-Ray player was $459. That's why Blu-Ray IMO isn't appealing to the general public (non-ps3 owners) at all. If you compare the amount of people who buy stand alone Blu-Ray players to the number of people who are buying stand alone HD DVD (There is no hyphen) players you'll see that the HD DVD players are outselling the Blu-Ray players by a significant margin.
To put this into perspective, the last two years have seen over two million standard DVD players sold each November, and sales seem to be on track to duplicate that this year.
I can't see this as a success for HD-DVD. They have cheap players, and a hit movie exclusive on HD, and sales are still a small fraction of DVD. It just doesn't seeem to be taking off.
And how old is the DVD format? How many players does DVD have out there?
Remember, ROME was not built in a day. You are expecting a format still in its infancy to outsell an established movie format that has players for $20 and discs for $5. It wouldn't take a genius to spot the flaw in your logic.
I will make it easy for you. DVD launched 10 years ago. There are more than 130 million DVD players in the world.
Blu is through.
To the discussion about whether people are stupid / ignorant
They are...or at least, about technology they are
I have a friend who was watching "high def tv channels" through RCA cables. I laughed my ass off.
"I have a friend who was watching 'high def tv channels' through RCA cables. I laughed my ass off."
Or you could help your friend see the best picture possible and hook them up with some component cables or HDMI cable.
I did...the laughing was internal
I went to Best Buy on Friday and had a Toshiba A3 box in my arms. Then I went to the movie section where there were easily twice as many movies on BluRay, including Disney/Pixar which are the majority of DVD's we purchase. Also most of the movies I would have watched on HD-DVD were also on BluRay. I can just watch the normal DVD upconverted for the other 5% that are HD-DVD only I guess. so I put the A3 back.
Hello PS3 come black friday.
This should be interesting to watch given that Disney seems bent on releasing new movies (see new "Cars" TV commercial) in Blu-ray disc format. As far as I'm concerned, this is a great thing. Now Paramount isn't the only one that's monopolized a particular format, hopefully we'll see Blu-ray win out this format war (which it should given that it can hold 2x+ more data than HD-DVD).
Well, most BD discs are only 25GB--and they usually only use 22GB due to pooling issues. Using more would reduce yields. So, if that's your only reasoning, you might want to consider that most HD DVDs hold 8GB (26.7%) more than most BDs.
Why do people keep thinking that disc size is going to win the format war?
1. They barely can fill up the 25GB (single layer blu-ray) and 30GB (dual layer HD-DVD) disc now. Honestly, what percentage of the movies released will that really be an issue with?
2. When you buy a season of your favorite show on DVD, does it come on one DVD? No, it comes on 5,6,7 or more DVD's? If they need 40GB of space to fit their content on they'll just use 2 HD-DVD's. It's not like Blu-Ray holds 200GB and HD-DVD holds 15GB. The storage difference per disc for movies is negligable.
30 x 2 = 50?
You have to go by whats ACTUALLY being used here. You cant say, "well the PS3 has a Blu-ray player in it, therefor our user base is bigger". It doesnt mean jack squat if people either dont know its in there or don't care to begin with. People buy Playstations to play games.
Movie sales, rentals, standalone player sales, internet searches, etc are what really matters. HD-DVD will win the war, simply because of PRICE as well as NAME RECOGNITION. No one knows what the hell a "Blu-ray" is. But people sure know what HD is & what DVDs are (ie HD-DVD). Also, big chains like Wal-Mart & Best Buy carry a lot more HD-DVD products for MUCH cheaper prices than their Blu-ray counterparts.
We can spin these stupid numbers & limitations of each format all day long. Its a moot point & doesnt mean squat to most people, except the fanboys.
One other note I forgot to mention in my comment: The reason that Sony didn't give people the option to include or not include a Blu-ray disc player is because all the new games for PS3 are going to be on Blu-ray. Remember what happened when Nintendo chose to go with a cartridge for the N64 and Sony went with CD? Squaresoft ditched their license with Nintendo and took the FF franchise to Playstation (I know I'm not the only one in this crowd that bought a PS just so I could play FF7, 8, and 9). As the games get bigger and more massive (not to mention longer and more in depth), even if HD-DVD wins this current movie format war, Blu-ray will come back later when better formats are needed for higher data capacity. Microsoft will want to consider adding a Blu-ray option with future systems if they want to keep up with the gaming industry.
BTW, regarding someone talking about beta vs. VHS, you can record 2x+ data on a Blu-ray disc (VHS could record 5 hours of tv as opposed to 2 hours on Beta format), so if that's one of the considerations of people at this point- which it isn't, cause ignorance or lack thereof really will be the deciding factor- Blu-ray would win hands down.
You completely missed the point about the beta comparison. It wasn't about the amount of data stored on the media, it was about the cheaper option. It cost more to use beta because you needed more media. Now, Blu-ray costs more because the players are more expensive.
The whole beta comparison is about showing that the most speced, most powerful formats don't always win.
If you buy HD-DVD, you can legally rip your movie and have a digital copy. Then, when digital distribution is upon us, you'll already have a digital library going.
Even if HD-DVD does lose, you win.
While 90k is an impressive number it is only due to the firesale on the HD-A2. There are a whole lot of HD-DVD fanatics that went and bought 3 players to help prop up the format. The 90k that were sold would have been sold this past weekend nomatter what.
The biggest problem is that Toshiba will have to keep a player at $99 to keep the same momentum. For the health of the company they simply cannot do that. All but the highest end player are being sold at a loss, which is why no othe rmanufacturer has jumped on board. Samsung isn't going to sell a HD-DVD player for a loss.
This was nothing more than a political move for a struggling format to get some good PR and hopefully be able to tout its numbers to court more movie studio support. Toshiba wants Warner to sign on with them like Paramount and Universal. However with those two there is a lot of Microsoft money behing them. Remember NBC, Universal, and Microsft are all tied together.
90k isn't even a blip on the radar compared to DVD and the market penetration of HDTV sales. The biggest problem that can arrise is now you may have a format that is only being pushed by one major CE manufacturer but has more major studio support for new release films. The other manufacturers will refuse to build players because they would have to sell them for a loss so Toshiba will havea monopoly on hardware sales. If HD-DVD becomes the HD movie format then Toshiba will have to stop selling players at a loss and raise the price. There won't be any more $99-199 players until they can be made at that price with a decent profit margin. Right now the $399 price point is th eentry level for a HD player with a decent profit margin built in.
Toshiba has taken the Sony role this time around but I don't see all the outraged people. Then created a proprietary format with single brand hardware, tying themselves to the largest monopoly in the world, yet this is seen as a good thing. I don't get it.