90,000 HD DVD players sold in one weekend

We were wondering how well HD DVD was doing with those new price cuts, and now here's Video Business with the answer: according to sources at retailers, Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City -- among others -- were able to move 90,000 stand-alone HD DVD players this weekend. Most of them were last year's entry level HD-A2, which sold for the low, low price of $99 -- but not all. This dramatically increases the user base for the HD DVD camp, but that's not saying much since the format only sold about this many stand-alone players in its first year. In the world of consumer electronics, 90k isn't that impressive, but considering the estimated loss Toshiba took on each unit, we can see why they'd want to limit the supply. The problem for the HD DVD camp is that they're really up against the PS3's sales, and even though only 40% of PS3 owners realize that there is a Blu-ray player built in, that's still about 750,000 people in the US. But ultimately, this format war is about selling movies, and we'll be keeping a close eye on the weekly sales numbers to assess the impact of this early holiday sales blitz.

[Thanks, Utah!]

[Curtis McHenry @ Nov 7th 2007 10:05AM]

Wow, that's a lot of sales.
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In before fanboys.

[loci @ Nov 7th 2007 10:14AM]

in after the wanker

[CubeGuy @ Nov 7th 2007 11:08AM]

In after the ... or was it before the ...

Regardless, I picked up the A2. It's amazingly pretty. =D

[brad @ Nov 7th 2007 10:05AM]

Surely one can expect the movie sales to increase...I dont think these people are buying them to look at on their shelves...like the PS3 which has no gam...oh this is about movies, sorry

[Cash @ Nov 7th 2007 1:26PM]

Agreed... I picked mine up on Monday because my local Walmart's shipment was late, and even though they marked the price up a whole dollar it was still going for under 100 bones. I didn't see people buying them myself, but I will say the difference in stock on HD-DVD endcap between Friday morning and Monday afternoon when I finally got mine was pretty telling. What had been a previously full rack was now missing all it's copies of Transformers, and all but a handful of Heroes Season 1, as well as the under 20 bucks titles like Borne Supremacy, The Italian Job, The Mummy and Batman Begins. Lucky for me, there was still one copy left of the Planet Earth series, which looks unfreakin' believable on my 65" 1080i TV. Even on a 2 year old midrange 5.1 setup, the difference of the higher audio bitrate really stands out compared to regular DVD's too.

I just wish those tools at the ACCS or CCS or whatever their group is called would pull the 'no upconvert over component cables' restriction and stop punishing those of us who were the first to drink the HiDef KoolAid. Like it's my fault HDMI wasn't even a concept when my set was built. Well whatever... I should be getting my 5 free movies in the mail either right before or right after Christmas anyway so that'll shut me up somewhat.

[Gene @ Nov 7th 2007 10:05AM]

"and even though only 40% of PS3 owners realize that there is a Blu-ray player built in"

Are they serious?! Are people really that ignorant? Doesn't it say Blu-ray on the box or something? I don't get that, it's ridiculous. Do that many people buy something and not really know what they're getting?
Ugh...
GR

[Jerry @ Nov 7th 2007 10:10AM]

You have to realize most people see "Playstation" and think of ONLY PLAYING GAMES...not watching movies. Blu-Ray or no Blu-Ray. The other problem with mainstream America is that the term "Blu-Ray" means absolutely nothing to them. The term "HD-DVD" given the existing knowledge of what a DVD is and what HD is...is a given. People just understand that term better. Take my mom for instance...she has an HDTV, DVR and a regular DVD player. I asked her if she had heard of HD-DVD and what it was...she knew. I then asked if she knew was Blu-Ray was. She said she had heard about it in a commercial for a new Disney movie, but thought it was a special feature of the disc. I know that's a super-small sample size, but I've always used my mom as a barometer of consumer understanding as she's usually dead-on.

[joey @ Nov 7th 2007 10:13AM]

People are just stupid these days.

[John @ Nov 7th 2007 10:51AM]

HD DVD just sounds like the next format. What do you replace your TV with? An HDTV! What will you replace your DVDs with? HD DVDs. That is the sole reason that I'm convinced HD DVDs will win in the end. Because whatever blu-ray might gain temporarily, ignorance and familiarity will win out in the end. Of course, I'm not willing to buy any HD-DVD/blu-ray disks or players until one does win, but still, I think HD DVD's going to triumph in the end.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Nov 7th 2007 11:14AM]

> Do that many people buy something and not really know what they're getting?

Fact: people are ignorant.

(BTW, that's what the whole service industry lives off.)

I personally often buy multi-functional devices while never really expecting to use even a half of presented functions. For me and you Blu-ray is something close - but to others (== most consumers) this is just another buzzword from yesterday's commercial.

People do want to watch movies. People do NOT want to be specialists in disk formats. And harder HD DVD/Blu-ray would push their formats, bigger ignorance wall would build up inside of people.

[Adrian Williams @ Nov 7th 2007 12:09PM]

Yes people are stupid 1/2 the people don't know that they ARE NOT watching HD programing on their HDTV

[Buck @ Nov 7th 2007 11:26AM]

Only 20% of PS3 owners have ever played a BD movie in their PS3. It's also worth noting that less than 50% of PS3 owners have an HDTV so BD means nothing to them.

BD helped the format when it was released, but standalone sales will be what determines the winner.

[Mr. B @ Nov 7th 2007 11:31AM]

The only problem with the HD-DVD name is there are ignorant people out there who think you can put an HD-DVD in a regular DVD player. I didn't quite realize this until I looked at the Amazon reviews for Planet Earth[HD-DVD]. Everyone who saw it gave it 5 stars and everyone else said the discs didn't work in their DVD players... amazing.

[Static @ Nov 7th 2007 11:52AM]

Ratio for Blu ray Vs HD-DVD sales. 2:1 in US, 4:1 in europe, 9:1 in japan and people really are trying to believe that it is the stand alones creting this disparity?

yeah.... sure.... PS3 owners have no clue about blu ray....

[Darayz @ Nov 7th 2007 10:06AM]

Include me as one of the 90,000 new HD DVD owners out there.

[TeddyN @ Nov 7th 2007 11:18AM]

Welcome to the brotherhood, now go forth into the perilous internets and fight for the cause of red in its quest to take down the blu Goliath.

:D

(j/k I'm neutral format neutral)

[joey @ Nov 7th 2007 10:12AM]

WOW thats alot like this article,
but replace the consoles with high definition players.(ps3=bluray/ 360=hd dvd)

"For the longest time, videogames and men have been synonymous with each other. Not to say that women do not play games, because recent data shows that the participation by women in games is increasing. However, on a broader scale, two thirds of all men between the ages of 18 and 34 own a videogame console. So what point are we trying to reach exactly? Simple, this isn’t the 1980s where console gaming isn't accepted by all men; today most men play videogames on a regular basis and women out in the dating field have a pretty high chance of running into a male gamer.

So for your ladies out there, here are some general stats recovered by three influential individuals. Carl Arinoldo, a NY based psychologist, Ted Owen, a CEO of GGL which is an online gaming network, and Shane Satterfield, Editor in Chief of GameTrailers.com.

They all gave their opinions about what a games consoles such as the PS3, Wii and Xbox 360 can describe about a man. Here is what they thought of the PS3 in relation to men...

Arinoldo: He believes that a PS3 user may imply that the guy is an early-adopter, meaning that he likes to be one of the first to have things. He also believes that because of the initial high price point, it may show that he could have “money in the bank”.

Owen: He mentioned that a PS3 owner is the 21st Century individual who loves gaming and wants the best quality out of his experience….and possibly his women. The PlayStation 3 owner also lives life to the fullest and is sophisticated, intelligent, enjoys competition, and is willing to wait a long time (i.e. in the launch line) for a good thing. Finally, he is also very loyal.

Satterfield: He explains that the PS3 male is in the know. Knows the right people, goes to the finest restaurants, night clubs, and doesn’t have to wait in line. This guy is very difficult to keep up with as he is “always” working and when he is not, he uses videogames as the opportunity to experience leisure.
Ladies...our PS3s are warm and we're ready and waiting!"
Odd isnt it?

[wjousts @ Nov 7th 2007 11:56AM]

Wow! And I thought the PS3 early adopter was the kind of guy who lives in his mothers basement and has too much time on his hands.

[joey @ Nov 7th 2007 12:18PM]

LOL, Not quite, I think thats the 360, jk
FANBOY SECURITY ENABLED!

[Alan @ Nov 7th 2007 10:13AM]

I actually got two players this weekend. (ended up selling one to a friend) I'm courious to see how the HD movie sales stand up with the onslaught of blu-ray releases this week.

[steedums @ Nov 7th 2007 10:18AM]

i got one too, although i don't buy that many dvds to begin with. i'm mostly a netflix person

[miyagi @ Nov 7th 2007 10:21AM]

Count me in as a new adopter of HD DVD

Also my gf's father picked one up and he doesn't even own an HDTV. He's getting one of those Black Friday and wanted to view HD content on it. For $99 you couldn't go wrong. At the very least it's one of the best upconverting DVD players out.

[Electromodo @ Nov 7th 2007 1:21PM]

Completely agree! Several of my friends got it because it is a great upconverting player and it plays HD DVDs... for $100!

I got one in WalMart, they were out of stock in 15 minutes (the store only had about 20 of them).

BTW, WalMart announced that sale would start at 8am, but by 8am all players were already consumed.

If Blu-Ray player price will go down to $100, I would get it too... and then I would not care of who wins the format war.

[david @ Nov 7th 2007 10:21AM]

It is going to be very difficult for the BDA to respond to sales like this. After all, the BDA's "platform" to the C/E OEMs has been (to this point) "we're going to keep margins high". Hence, unless they decide to change that strategy (which, if they do, risks losing C/E OEM support), they won't be in a position to battle it out with HD DVD in the stand-alone market. Lets be clear on one thing: the "PS3 effect" is largely over. Blu-ray cannot win this war soley on the back of gamers who also want to rent/buy BD discs . . . it's too narrow of a demographic. The PS3 has been valueable to BD so far, but that value is diminishing not increasing.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Nov 7th 2007 11:23AM]

> It is going to be very difficult for the BDA to respond to sales like this.

They can always go to court and complain about price dumping. Though market is only developing so BDA hardly would be able to claim any direct damages. As well, I believe that BDA'a hands (exclusive deals == monopoly) are as unclean as of HD DVD camp.

[loci @ Nov 7th 2007 10:23AM]

anyone want to buy a betamax vcr?

[Ralph @ Nov 7th 2007 11:36AM]

Every time I hear the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray argument, and someone inevitably tells me that Blu-Ray technology is superior (it is, arguably, but I'm not trying to start a flame war here), I always counter with "and Beta was worlds superior to VHS, but all that mattered to buyers back then was the fact you could record 8 hours on VHS but only 5 and a half on Beta" (or something like that).

In the end, it doesn't matter what's best, it's what's cheapest. Not my belief, it's just how it happens.

All that said, I'm not buying either. I'll stick with regular ol' DVDs until it all goes digital delivery in about 5 years.

[pepper @ Nov 7th 2007 4:06PM]

@ralph if average consumers cant figure out what blu-ray is on the ps3 box, what makes you think they will understand how to download movies?
i dont care what all you guys say it will be a lot longer than 5 years before this is the norm. most of my relatives have really old computers that could only store about 3 regular dvd's on the whole hard drive, but there would be no room for anything else. a few have dial-up because they live in the country and satalite internet is flippin expensive. then ow do you expect most people to even understand how to get a tv hooked up to the computer. my system could handle it, i have a very good connection, and plenty of hard drive space, but i dont want all this to happen anytime soon. i like having the hard copy, no one can take it away from me, and i dont have to worry about system crashes making me download them again. not to mention the amount of time it would take to download with current technology.

[Static @ Nov 7th 2007 11:52AM]

Betamax VS blu ray fails on all counts. Sony is not the sole backer of Blu ray. Sony cannot limit the licensing of hardware (there is a board). There is a tremendous amount of support from the biggest companies in the movie industry. And content and capicity is larger on Blu ray.

All in all, Blu ray has more elements in common with VCR tapes but lets not let that get in the way of your obviously unbiased and informed opinion.

[Serengeti @ Nov 7th 2007 1:43PM]

Let's not forget the most important distinction between this and beta/vhs:

The physical media are the same.

That means in a few years, when the 'war' is over, the software required to play both formats will be in every single player on the market. Then... and this is important... NO ONE WILL CARE.

This entire 'war' is ridiculous. In the end, everyone will be able to play all discs, no matter their origin.

[HyperHacker @ Nov 13th 2007 10:38PM]

...unless they're Blu-ray discs from another country.

[cadsystems @ Nov 7th 2007 10:24AM]

I noticed a ton of these on ebay, so I wonder how many were purchased to try and resale on ebay? I'm guessing maybe half.

[Adam @ Nov 7th 2007 10:56AM]

Are you serious? I doubt there are 45,000 listings for a brand new HD-A2 on eBay.

My local BestBuy sold out of the A2's, so I bought a A3 instead and now have 5 free HD-DVDs with 5 more on the way.

[Lobsang @ Nov 7th 2007 10:26AM]

I love it. Now all i need to do is wait for MGS4 to buy the PS3!

Gotta have em both!

[cap'n @ Nov 7th 2007 10:26AM]

I refuse to buy an HD or BluRay player when it's only a matter of time before physical media is trumped by download/stream to wifi. Of course it's already happening...but it's not perfect yet. In the meantime, my regular DVD player (connected to my HDTV) will do.

[kitten @ Nov 7th 2007 10:28AM]

Most HD DVD owners probably just think it's a slightly better DVD player or even just buy it cos at $100 it's better to buy this than a standard DVD player. It doesn't actually mean they will then go out and get HD DVDs instead of DVDs.

[Electromodo @ Nov 7th 2007 1:30PM]

I would tend to disagree. HD DVD is a well known term already and I bet people would give it a try if they own HD DVD player. Especially when they get 5 free HD DVDs from Toshiba.

I have Blockbuster online service (about the same as Netflix), and I started to rent HD DVDs already, which costs me nothing extra. But I ordered some on Amazon, just to have my own copies.

[fred @ Nov 8th 2007 3:17AM]

disagree,hddvds name implies next generation dvd. the name is self explainatory
regular price is not 99bucks, its slightly under $200
dvd player prices are 30-40 bucks, even 99 bucks is double to triple current dvd player costs, so i don't think people will think they are "almost the same". peoples price expectations have been changed by dvd.

"what happens when the 60% realize thier ps3 plays blu ray? hmmm..........."

by that time really cheap players will be out. like the number of normal dvd players to ps2's...the ps2 is insignificant and only a few teen boys even bother using it as a dvd player. the mainstream swings on price and their numbers simply render console gaming let alone ps3 customer base insignificant.

[DickHardknocks @ Nov 7th 2007 10:33AM]

-------The problem for the HD DVD camp is that they're really up against the PS3's sales, and even though only 40% of PS3 owners realize that there is a Blu-ray player built in, that's still about 750,000 people in the US. But ultimately, this format war is about selling movies ----------


These are the truest words I have ever heard Engadget speak...THANK YOU.


I've been saying this same thing since before the PS3's release date.

I knew along time ago, PS3 and Blu Ray would help each other succeed simply because the vast majority of gamers out there were going to be sure to purchase a PS3 even faster than typical home theater enthusiasts would be to run out and buy an HDDVD or BLU RAY dedicated player.

SONY knew that the PS3 would do for Blu Ray what the PS2 did for DVD's.

Back in JAPAN during the PS2's release DVD was fasing out VCD's and the average DVD player typically cost over $800 (without progressive scan). PS2 was a low priced out-of-the box DVD PLAYER which was less than $400 and therefore, many Japanese stores stocked it as a DVD player even though they did not traditionaly sell VIDEO GAME SYSTEMS.

VCD vs. DVD is a format war that is almost never talked about or mentioned because DVD killed VCD on arrival with its higher definition sound and picture.

SONY realizes that the future of products is CONVERGENCE and that -even if you must sell your product at a loss - convergence can keep a new format alive, and lack there of can ensure its demise.

I KEEP SAYING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN... by refusing to place an HDDVD player in the XBOX360, MICROSOFT has ensured HDDVD will never become the mainstream format.

90,000 HDDVD players sold means nothing compared to the sales of BLU RAY through PS3 and even through dedicated computer drives and players. The only reason this particular player is selling is due to it being CHEAP.

[Jerry @ Nov 7th 2007 12:45PM]

Um...okay fanboy. This isn't Japan. America never even SAW VCD's. In fact, I don't know of ANY PS2 owners that actually utilized it's DVD playback option on a regular basis. Every single PS2 owner that I knew back in the day, still had a standalone DVD player. To say that the PS3 will do for Blu-Ray what the PS2 did for DVD is saying that it's gonna be a whole lotta nuthin'.

[John @ Nov 7th 2007 10:58AM]

40% of people with PS3s realize their PS3 can play blu-ray disks, much less use them. That kind of shuts down your argument right there. Japanese stores sold PS2s as DVD players? No one sells the PS3 just as a blu-ray player, and compare its pricepoint to that of HD DVD players (a la this article). Convergence may be the future, but we haven't converged on the next format yet. Microsoft cuts costs by not bundling HD DVD with the 360, but still allows people to add on that capability. Claiming that the PS3 will cause blu-ray to ultimately win is rather counterintuitive, as people are not buying it OR USING IT as a blu-ray player.

[andyg8180 @ Nov 7th 2007 11:05AM]

@DickHArdknocks
"I KEEP SAYING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN... by refusing to place an HDDVD player in the XBOX360, MICROSOFT has ensured HDDVD will never become the mainstream format."

BOOOOOO!!! Thats a load of 2005 crap if i've ever heard... The 360 was smart enough to give the consumer the choice of adding the HD-DVD support to the 360... So considering nearly 40% of the PS3 community has no clue they play blu-rays, dont you think that was a smart move on Microsofts part??

Not every 360/ps3 owner even OWNS at high def TV, so why force them to buy a high def player for their SDTV??

Sony forced ps3's to have a blu-ray, causing the prices to be so spiked... The 360 gently added in at 399 which was unbelieveably reasonable...

So basically you have this oversized Folding@Home flopper that no one knows plays blu-ray movies...

But trust me, if blu-ray players were $99, i'd buy one in a heart beat... Oh wait, they are already obsolete due to Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0 with no way to update them unless you own a ps3...

[Scott @ Nov 7th 2007 11:08AM]

But what you're forgetting is that even more important than convergence is cost. yeah, there are a lot of PS3s out there. But it's also really expensive (as a standalone player) and a lot of people buying it are buying it for its gaming ability. Yes, there are people buying it as a Bluray player, but they're not in the majority.
As much as people would hate to admit it, it's the average consumer, the wal-mart shoppers that'll spend $99 on a DVD player instead of $399 on a game console, that makes these things a success or a failure.

[shuyin198x @ Nov 7th 2007 11:09AM]

What idiot came up with 40%? Assuming 3/5 of us are idiots, what makes you think they'll know about hd-dvd?
Heck, even in the ps1 days everyone knew they were able to play cds.The vast majority of consumers know the possible features of the hardware they just bought.

[zargon @ Nov 7th 2007 12:24PM]

@shuyin198x

The 40% comes from a poll done recently, while not exactly scientific, it gives does give us a descent picture of PS3 owners who know of and use Blu-ray feature for movies.

The point is not whether people know about HD-DVD. The point is that all HD-DVD players, including the Xbox 360 add-on were purchased for the very reason to use them as a HD-DVD player.

On the other hand, not all Blu-ray players (PS3) are being used as Blu-ray players because either people don't care to or don't know that they even can.

This is the one big point of controversy behind player numbers. Obviously Sony and the BDA want all the PS3's counted and in fact use those number to inflate the actual numbers.

Though, with the head of steam HD-DVD has going into Q4 through the end of the year, those PS3 numbers may not mean much anymore.

[b_a_boone @ Nov 7th 2007 12:49PM]

andyg8180

Please read what you wrote. By forcing people to purchase a game system with Blue-Ray capabilities Sony does have the one up on MS.

You just made your comment null by adding that MS gives you the option.

Example.
If there were 8 million 360's but only 2million opted to buy the HD-DVD add on how would they beat 4 million PS3's that already have the BR hardware built in?

[Buck @ Nov 7th 2007 1:25PM]

But, like I stated earlier...

-only 40% of PS3 owners know about the Blu-Ray functionality
-only 20% of PS3 owners have ever played a Blu-Ray movie on their PS3
-less than 50% of PS3 owners have an HDTV

A BD player in the PS3 helps, but it's not the determining factor here. Price of standalone units is.

[Alan Strangis @ Nov 7th 2007 4:51PM]

I've got a standalone BR player (used from craigslist for cheap - person didn't "get it"), and the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 (birthday present), so I'm pretty happy and don't care which wins, but if HD-DVD hardware sales climb, and the "number of movies per hardware units" stays the same, then BR is going to start slipping away. BR hardware needs to become cheaper, because the PS3 is what's keeping that movies per hardware ratio down, and here's why...

The PS3 isn't the answer for those who want an all-in-one experience, and no Home Theatre fan (or casual viewer) would ever REALLY want a PS3 as the Blu-Ray player because of it's Bluetooth remote. It's the reason I stayed away from the PS3. I'm not going to forego my Harmony remote just to resort to either the Sony remote (or *shudder* use the controller) when I want to watch a BR disc.

[mike @ Nov 7th 2007 10:40AM]

well, it will be definitely be a long wait. you should consider buying a BD or HD DVD to amuse yourself while waiting...

[goldeneye @ Nov 7th 2007 5:54PM]

what happens when the 60% realize thier ps3 plays blu ray? hmmm...........