"I look at this as HUGE growth for the HD-DVD format and shows the rapidly increasing demand for this format. Now to be objective, what are the BD players growth number? Do they compare? Let's look at apples to apples? Or are they so pitiful that one has to trivialize the HD-DVD growth with comments like this."
Huge growth? I'm glad you think selling 200k stand alone player is huge. If I had the BD player stats I would have included them. The only stat I had access to is the BD-S300 and that isn't enough to be a good comparison.
"Prove it. Show me where it says Toshiba is losing money on any of these players. You better have facts to back up statements like this. Also, do you understand business, at all? Of course the supply was limited, because the A2 is discontinued, meaning, they don't make it any more. They were clearing out inventory for the newer model, the A3. It has nothing to do with limiting the "supposed" loss on each unit."
I don't believe they were simply "clearing out" the A2, cause I've been checking the stock of A2 at local BBs for months and they haven't been in stock and then all of a sudden there are thousands, and most with older manufacturer dates. This combined with some states not selling them becuase they are below cost proves that someone is loosing money, and yes I think it's Toshiba. You know I can't prove this.
"Once again, objectivity Ben. How about you include 360 HD Drives, hmmm. See, you're quick to point out numbers that favor your weak argument, but won't back up any statements with them if they hurt you."
There have been about 210k add-on drives, still doesn't really compare to 750k does it?
"Hardware starts this, and no matter how you want to spin it, HD-DVD just doubled the amount of hardware in one weekend even by your numbers."
True, which is why I said we'd be watching the numbers closely. But to your point, HD DVD didn't double there base this week so why would you think that they'd be able to close the 2:1 gap with just one weekend's worth of sales?
" There have been about 210k add-on drives, still doesn't really compare to 750k does it?" Well if you consider that all 210k are for movie watching and that 40% of those 750k who have PS3s don't know it has a Blu-Ray drive it becomes 210k vs. 300k. I don't know about you but that looks reasonably close to me.
"The only stat I had access to is the BD-S300 and that isn't enough to be a good comparison."
I would argue that the entry level player for Blu-ray and the entry level player for HD DVD would be more than a good comparison. In fact, I think it's one of the most logical comparisons you could make given the circumstances.
"This dramatically increases the user base for the HD DVD camp, but that's not saying much since the format only sold about this many stand-alone players in its first year. In the world of consumer electronics, 90k isn't that impressive,
I think what you are failing to see is that they sold 90K+ units in ONE WEEKEND. I don't know why you fail to see it since it is the title of this story. It IS saying "much" that a company can move just as many units in two days than it did in its first year out the door.
I know this may not mean alot, but i've had it with your lack of objective postings. I come to Engadget to try and stay away from pro HDDVD/pro Blu-ray sites, but this is ridiculous. I cannot rely on EngadgetHD for unbiased information and will look elsewhere for my HD info.
750k PS3 users, but only 40% of them are aware of BluRay movies. Thats 300k. Maybe they all bought BD movies, but I doubt it. Let's overlook that.
Of the 210k 360 addon purchases, I can guarantee that every single one of those people knew they could play movies with it, so you can be guaranteed that they will all buy movies, too.
So, really, in terms of movie /purchasers/, when looking at PS3 and 360 users, there really isn't that big a difference, and any difference could probably be attributed to Sony marketing BD movie playback on PS3 pretty heavily.
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"I look at this as HUGE growth for the HD-DVD format and shows the rapidly increasing demand for this format. Now to be objective, what are the BD players growth number? Do they compare? Let's look at apples to apples? Or are they so pitiful that one has to trivialize the HD-DVD growth with comments like this."
Huge growth? I'm glad you think selling 200k stand alone player is huge. If I had the BD player stats I would have included them. The only stat I had access to is the BD-S300 and that isn't enough to be a good comparison.
"Prove it. Show me where it says Toshiba is losing money on any of these players. You better have facts to back up statements like this. Also, do you understand business, at all? Of course the supply was limited, because the A2 is discontinued, meaning, they don't make it any more. They were clearing out inventory for the newer model, the A3. It has nothing to do with limiting the "supposed" loss on each unit."
I don't believe they were simply "clearing out" the A2, cause I've been checking the stock of A2 at local BBs for months and they haven't been in stock and then all of a sudden there are thousands, and most with older manufacturer dates. This combined with some states not selling them becuase they are below cost proves that someone is loosing money, and yes I think it's Toshiba. You know I can't prove this.
"Once again, objectivity Ben. How about you include 360 HD Drives, hmmm. See, you're quick to point out numbers that favor your weak argument, but won't back up any statements with them if they hurt you."
There have been about 210k add-on drives, still doesn't really compare to 750k does it?
"Hardware starts this, and no matter how you want to spin it, HD-DVD just doubled the amount of hardware in one weekend even by your numbers."
True, which is why I said we'd be watching the numbers closely. But to your point, HD DVD didn't double there base this week so why would you think that they'd be able to close the 2:1 gap with just one weekend's worth of sales?
"
There have been about 210k add-on drives, still doesn't really compare to 750k does it?"
Well if you consider that all 210k are for movie watching and that 40% of those 750k who have PS3s don't know it has a Blu-Ray drive it becomes 210k vs. 300k. I don't know about you but that looks reasonably close to me.
@Ben
"The only stat I had access to is the BD-S300 and that isn't enough to be a good comparison."
I would argue that the entry level player for Blu-ray and the entry level player for HD DVD would be more than a good comparison. In fact, I think it's one of the most logical comparisons you could make given the circumstances.
No?
Ben, you said:
"This dramatically increases the user base for the HD DVD camp, but that's not saying much since the format only sold about this many stand-alone players in its first year. In the world of consumer electronics, 90k isn't that impressive,
I think what you are failing to see is that they sold 90K+ units in ONE WEEKEND. I don't know why you fail to see it since it is the title of this story. It IS saying "much" that a company can move just as many units in two days than it did in its first year out the door.
I know this may not mean alot, but i've had it with your lack of objective postings. I come to Engadget to try and stay away from pro HDDVD/pro Blu-ray sites, but this is ridiculous. I cannot rely on EngadgetHD for unbiased information and will look elsewhere for my HD info.
Let's add a little perspective.
750k PS3 users, but only 40% of them are aware of BluRay movies. Thats 300k. Maybe they all bought BD movies, but I doubt it. Let's overlook that.
Of the 210k 360 addon purchases, I can guarantee that every single one of those people knew they could play movies with it, so you can be guaranteed that they will all buy movies, too.
So, really, in terms of movie /purchasers/, when looking at PS3 and 360 users, there really isn't that big a difference, and any difference could probably be attributed to Sony marketing BD movie playback on PS3 pretty heavily.