Mac OS X 10.5.1 seeded to developers

With the number of bugs that've already been reported for Leopard -- most of which are fairly inherent in any .0 release, but are no less annoying -- it doesn't take much of a rumor-enthusiast to figure out that Apple is hard at work on a 10.5.1 update. The first fruit of that effort just hit ADC developers today, in the form of build 9B13. The update is pretty broad, and since this is just the first seed of 10.5.1, there's no telling how long it'll take for Apple to get this all tightened up for public consumption. Issues that are being addressed include:

• Mail Sync
• Spotlight Index
• Disk Management
• DesktopServices and moving files across partitions
• Text Drawing
• iCal and CalDAV syncing
• Keychain login
• Read-Only Issue with SMB
• AirPort 802.1X
• Application Firewall
• To-Do Notes
• and Smart Mailboxes.

Granted, that's just a high level overview so it's hard to tell if this will tackle your specific 10.5.0 pet peeve, but there's a mite bit more after the break in other areas of change.

New (non-specific) issues fixed:

• Mail Sync
• HTML anchors in Mail
• PubSub headers in installhdrs
• Parental Controls corruption in certain situations
• Fix to SpotlightIndex
• Disk Management and free space records
• iCal and CalDAV syncing
• Mail Sync and Smart Mailboxes
• Email alarms and iCal
• Text drawing corruption and QuickDraw Manager
• Disk Management and RAID
• Keychain login fix
• Custom presets with Page Setup and Print Dialogs
• Read-Only issue with SMB
• AirPort 802.1X issues
• DesktopServices and moving files across partition
• Fix to Application Firewall
• To-Do Notes and Smart Mailboxes

[JAmerican @ Nov 7th 2007 7:11PM]

I installed it on my PB 1GHz with 512MB and its definately faster than Tiger :). WiFi is the only thing I am having problems with but I think its my laptop hardware since it was problem in Tiger :(.

[Ruben @ Nov 7th 2007 9:46PM]

Well, you must have a magic powerbook because on my iBookG4 1.2 with 768 megs ram, its a fu*king disaster. Time machine is a slide show. Jumping from desktop to desktop shows 3 or 4 frames max. Typing in Safari is delayed by at least 3 or 5 keystrokes. On this machine, coverflow is pointless. And this all happened the very first time i used it (fresh install of course).

Vista runs fine on a two year old laptop (by experience). Why is Leopard a dog on my iBook? I know Steve doesnt remember he used to use PowerPC on his computers, so i dont expect a new performance patch, ever.

So this 10.5.1 most likely wont help me one bit. What a waste.

[Ruben @ Nov 7th 2007 9:58PM]

...Oh, and on occasion, the entire screen gets some kind of weird screen corruption, but only while a program is closing, the system reboots, or when theres heavy load and i request it to do something else. Getting my application folder open takes about 4 - 6 seconds. On occasion, a preview of a small PDF (which takes a few seconds to open in preview) takes about 10 - 15 seconds to load on quick view. With VLC or FlipForMac, WMV's cannot be rendered quickly enough to display fluidly. HD video, which was viewable in Panther (and to a lesser extent Tiger, 720p only) is now a slide show.

Does 10.5.1 fix that?

:(

[BigPana @ Nov 8th 2007 12:08AM]

Did you upgrade or did you do a clean install?

[JAmerican @ Nov 7th 2007 7:11PM]

I installed it on my PB 1GHz with 512MB and its definitely faster than Tiger :). WiFi is the only thing I am having problems with but I think its my laptop hardware since it was problem in Tiger :(.

[michael @ Nov 7th 2007 7:16PM]

That's exactly why I never opt. to install something that's "the latest and the greatest".

Since it's so brand new, it will take time for the market to break into it.

Vista is having trouble, mainly because companies just won't allow their old software/new software to work with Vista. NOT because it has to do anything with Vista itself, but the lack of support of old software is disappointing.

Same with the iPhone. A full multitouch phone is so new, and obviously it came with problems/quirks like reduced price (sorry early adopters!), bad screens, NO 3rd party support, and a ton of things.

Now the same rules are being applied to Leopard. I know a TON of Apple fanboys suggest upgrading to Leopard. I laugh at them. The only worthy feature really, is Time Machine, and even that feature is going through problems. Nothing is ever perfect. I mean, compared to XP to Vista, Tiger to Leopard is such a minor update that Tiger users don't really need to upgrade.

So until things settle down, I'll continue using what's been known to work best.

[bhaal @ Nov 7th 2007 8:10PM]

Actually time machine is not that important, or it's just buggy at any rate to me it's nothing more than a curiosity.

I'm far more impressed with spaces, which I could not live without now and the web clip dashboard feature which transforms the dashboard into something useful. Quick look is also very useful as is the new finder, although I'm not quite convinced coverflow is that useful for it yet.

[yeag3r @ Nov 7th 2007 9:39PM]

Yeah, spaces and quick look - I keep a lot of old ideas filed away from years ago and until leopard they were all but lost, but now that I can view anything quickly and easily after being enticed by the presentation of the file in cover flow (all in my work-space, of course) - I am all of a sudden rediscovering a ton of stuff I never would have seen again.

[Marduk @ Nov 7th 2007 10:05PM]

You've been able to get "spaces" for free for *years* on Linux. Nice to see Apple is finally catching up. Notice I said catching up, not caught up. It still looks nicer and is much more versatile in compiz fusion than it is in Leopard.

[Ruben @ Nov 7th 2007 10:08PM]

He also had spaces right on tiger (whatever it was called, before it got bought by Apple) and possibly panther (im not too sure). You could even set the transition to a spinning cube, a slide, a flip, dissolve, etc. And it was just as fast as spaces on Leopard is now. Im starting to think of less reasons to keep Leopard on my iBook (actually, i really have none).

[John @ Nov 8th 2007 12:12AM]

Wait, did you just try to shift blame for a lack of 3rd party support on people other than Apple with regards to the iPhone? Because last I checked, Apple was taking a metaphorical (and quite possibly literal , in some cases) axe to everyone who tries to put 3rd party apps on iPhones, so I think this may be their fault in some small way

[SteveMB @ Nov 7th 2007 7:27PM]

Mac OSX Beta

[david @ Nov 7th 2007 7:27PM]

When is Vista SP1 again?

[Carbonize @ Nov 7th 2007 7:29PM]

So bugs in the latest version of OSX are 'are fairly inherent in any .0 release' and yet when MS announces they are working on SP1 for Vista to fix various bugs and add features this is down to sloppy work by MS?

[jcohen2 @ Nov 7th 2007 7:45PM]

It would be, if they waited a full year to fix those bugs... :)

[Ellianth @ Nov 7th 2007 8:27PM]

This is exactly why you shouldn't publicly make fun of someone else company. Apple must be feeling pretty damn stupid right now.

[Marduk @ Nov 7th 2007 10:08PM]

@jcohen2
That's not a fair comparison. An Microsoft SP isn't the same as an Apple quick fix. If this resolves all of Leopard's issues, then you can brag.

[Josh @ Nov 8th 2007 12:05AM]

Did you seriously just suggest that SP1 is going to fix all of the bugs in Vista? Come on, there is a reason win 2000 is on SP4 and XP on SP2. No one ever fixes ALL of the problems, they just fix the most glaring of the bunch. Apple is commendable for pushing an update so quickly for the errors that it shouldnt have, Vista public beta has been out for a year and they have yet to release a patch for anything, but when SP1 comes out it will probably fix a good deal of the problems.

There is a good reason why admin's dont switch to the "latest and greatest" as soon as possible. The Mac Pro/G5 array i run is running 10.4.8 because it runs well and isn't unstable in the sligtest (relatively speaking - it is by no means flawless), hell i am even hesitant to upgrade my XP box to vista because of vista public beta's problems.

[Carbonize @ Nov 8th 2007 12:11AM]

Errrrr Vista has been out of beta for a long time now and just how long was the Leopard beta available to download?

As to fixing bugs MS has already released several patches via Windows Updates. Service Packs tend to be mostly a collection of the most important updates/patches that have already been released.

Neither company is better than the other but Apple does have the advantage of having a pretty good idea of what the computers hardware will be where as Microsoft have to code for the almost infinite variety of PC's there are out there.

[jcohen2 @ Nov 7th 2007 7:35PM]

One feature I'm hoping they address is the stack. After reading about them, I really thought I would love stacks, but in practice all they give you are a bunch of random unidentifiable icons on your dock. Apple finalized Dashboard sometime after 10.4.0 (by adding the option to remove or upgrade widgets and adding a Widget manager). Maybe they can do the same for Stacks and figure out a way to include a picture of the containing folder into the stack's icon...

Even in the real world, if you put a bunch of things in a folder it *still* looks like a folder! Most of the desktop items are based on real-life analogies (like folders, and the trash, and the desk top, etc.). Stacks just brings the real-life concept of "mess" onto the MacOS Desktop ;)

[shaliron @ Nov 7th 2007 11:11PM]

Hear, hear.

Stacks sound really nice in theory, but the way that Apple has implemented it is horrible. Just some simple options to allow users to 'open in finder' automatically, use folder icons, and some type of hierarchical menus.

And they really ought to re-add the feature to make stacks 'on the go', by dragging random files into the dock to create a stack - temporary smart folders.

But what's that Steve? Oh, that's for when you admit it's a problem.

[Me @ Nov 8th 2007 11:18PM]

Agreed, I hate stacks. I'll probably never use it, unless I have all shortcuts to all my applications inside it. I was hoping it would display icons and folders in subfolders as well like in Tiger, but no. Now it really is a mess, and I as sure as hell am not using 'fan' option either as it doesnt show all icons in a folder from stacks. Furthermore, when using grid, the size is massive, I even looked for an option to resize it but no such luck. Id like a choice of turning stacks on or off. I dont give a shit if Steve Jobs finds this innovative for himself, its the general public that decides whether or not features stay. His charisma has been pissing me off since he got all pompous about the ipod.

Another drawback to leopard is quickview; pressing space bar on any image or document will give u a preview, as well as in coverflow. Using the cursor keys in quickview in windowed mode will allow you to switch from previous to next image, BUT, in full screen mode this is not possible, its stuck on the single image. This is rather an easy fix and disappointing to see as well.

All around i really like leopard, but it needs tweaking. Stacks has gotta go though, its made my day more difficult than easy.

[Chris Greer @ Nov 8th 2007 12:43PM]

About your stacks comment, I found switching to the grid view makes the stacks much more useful and more legible also. One thing that bums me out is in the WWDC copy of Leopard, the stacks were just a bit different and better if you ask me. In that beta version with my applications folder on the dock, when you open an application i.e. Photoshop CS3, you would click on the Photoshop folder and it would open into another stack. Unlike the current version of Leopard which opens that program into a Finder window. This makes the desktop much more cluttered and more time consuming. Bring back the old stacks!!!!!!!!

[Shad Harris @ Nov 7th 2007 7:37PM]

You know its funny...
how all these little D-bag fanboys can get all uppity about vista issues at the drop of a hat
BUT MAC CAN'T SEEM TO GET IT RIGHT EITHER, AND ON A MUCH MORE NARROW HARDWARE BASIS TO BOOT.
Leopard doesnt seem so damn "untouchable" or "innovative" now does it...
Also, the BSOD thing should be laid to rest once and for all, get it off the damn icons and grow up.

with innovation comes setbacks, deal with and shut your mouth before you harp on something because you don't like it.
Im a fan of leopard, Vista, Linux and anything else that progresses technology - FLAWS AND ALL

[scolen2 @ Nov 7th 2007 8:28PM]

Accually, the only reason why 10.5 is out too early is due to market demand. If there wasn't a demand for it, then apple would of done as it always has tried to do before and wait until its good. This time, they were forced to declare a date and keep to it. Becuase of the iPhone sucking up all the OS engineers, there was limited time to polish 10.5. Just saying the facts, not trying to flame.

[Justin @ Nov 8th 2007 8:18AM]

Sorry, I don't buy that argument at all. Publishers push software out early all the time, but Apple's the publisher and the developer in this case, and they're big enough to say "when it's done" and that would be that.

[Jon C @ Nov 7th 2007 7:37PM]

for me 802.11x does not work worth sh**! I cannot connect to my universities wireless network 85% of the time since i upgraded to leopard.... i am not too happy, can't wait till they fix that.

[Mr. Picklesworth @ Nov 7th 2007 7:40PM]

Because if Apple stopped making terrible Windows software and throwing it at the unsuspecting masses, they wouldn't be able to call Windows unstable or slow.

Granted, Adobe has a part in this as well so there would still be quite a lot of bloat hiding away, but "Windows" would become noticeably faster if Apple's Windows software just killed itself.

Then they would be stuck at square 1, having to find a new method, beyond sabotage, to convince people to switch.

[Dias @ Nov 7th 2007 7:40PM]

MS announce SP1 for Vista after 3 month since it's been launched: People "Vista is Crap"

Apple release SP1-beta for Leopard after 1 week since launch: People "It's good that Apple support new OS"

Funny -_-'

[bhaal @ Nov 7th 2007 8:10PM]

Vista doesn't work with half the things it's meant to work with. For example printers. My roomate's computer refuses to work half the time and the problem appears to just be on word. Another friend's laptop running Vista works perfectly all the time.

Leopard includes printer drivers in the system - no downloading, no fuss, no installers. You just plug the thing in and you're good to go.

Also I don't really understand how being quicker at releasing the first service pack to your new operating system makes a company worse at support.

[Big John @ Nov 7th 2007 8:24PM]

I just don't understand people comparing the 10.X.X releases to Service Packs.

Service Packs are gigantic, massive et. al roundups of several bugfixes across several hardware profiles. They (sometimes) introduce new features to an operating system. In the case of WinXP, a standard (no Service Pack) install is a completely different operating system than a SP2 install. New features added, young features fleshed out.

10.X.X updates are a few bugfixes across a small hardware profile, granted. The complainers are typically the extremely vocal minority, at least that's what the last three or four 10.4.X updates looked like. I'm not aware (though my Mac history is short) of any 10.X.X release offering a new operating system feature of the caliber of Spaces, Time Machine, Spotlight etc.

The launch of any operating system, not just MS/Apple releases, is going to have bugs. You can test, test, test for years to a select group of beta testers. The second you release it into the wild, you're going to find more bugs. That's the nature of software in general! If every piece of software was bug-free, many programmers would be out of a job. Detractors of MS for taking so long to update Vista and detractors of Apple for taking little time to update Leopard alike need to shut their trap. People, no matter what OS they use, aren't contributing to a constructive discussion by comparing the two.

Disclosure: Using iMac with Leopard at home, Latitude 600m with WinXP SP2 on the road/in the classroom.

[liin @ Nov 8th 2007 4:03AM]

Yeah, people said Vista is crap. But that was said before any promised service pack. And I don't remember any reviewers saying Leopard is great because they had a hunch Apple will be quick to release updates.

It's like an awful book and a good book had already gotten their reviews, and weeks later, both needed to fix some unreadable sentences due to printing issues. And you say, wait a minute, both are fixing their bugs but you say one's an awful book and the other is a good book?

[t-bone @ Nov 8th 2007 8:43AM]

@bhaal: Vista came with drivers for my all-in-one printer. Everything I plugged in worked except for my old, proprietary graphics card that is only found in one laptop model.

[Carmelo Lisciotto @ Nov 7th 2007 8:06PM]

Definitely faster than the tiger...

Carmelo Lisciotto

[got2bwireless @ Nov 7th 2007 8:23PM]

I installed Leopard onto my iMac and I haven't seen any issues yet and I didn't have to update any of my 3rd party software that I had already installed.

My company gave me a new laptop with Vista already installed and I can't get most of my software to work with it. I have Adobe 6 Professional that works flawlessly on my XP machine but is not compatible with Vista. The only way to get Adobe Professional on my Vista machine is to but the latest and greatest version. Why should I have to upgrade 3 party software just because the OS was upgraded.

Before I got the new laptop I was about ready to upgrade my XP desktop to Vista but I would have had to buy a new video card just to run Vista. WHY???

[Natedog @ Nov 8th 2007 1:31AM]

@got2bwireless:

No, you don't have to upgrade your video card to run Vista. You have to upgrade your video card for Vista to be extra-pretty. I resisted Vista for a while, but now that 3rd-party support is beginning to kick in, it's pretty nice.

[evo31337 @ Nov 7th 2007 8:11PM]

anybody else having issues with Front Row crashing?

[BrettB @ Nov 7th 2007 8:15PM]

I don't know, while I know there are always going to be bugs, it sure seems like there should be a lot fewer for an OS that has been in development for such a long time and has such a small amount of hardware it needs to be compatible with. Plus, it sure seems like that list cuts to the core of pretty much everything you might want to do with a computer. Problems moving files? Sounds a lot like Vista to me.

[Adrian Williams @ Nov 7th 2007 8:15PM]

Apple it just works RIGHT?

[Someguy @ Nov 7th 2007 8:49PM]

God, I hate it when people say stuff like that. Neither Microsoft nor Apple is perfect, end of discussion.

[Nathan @ Nov 7th 2007 9:32PM]

Someguy

but that's apples slogan. everything make make "just works"

tell them to shut up if your sick of hearing it

[Ireland @ Nov 7th 2007 11:22PM]

MS aren't perfect, they are even Ok :P

[willyboy @ Nov 7th 2007 8:27PM]

Service pack 1 for Leopard. That did not take long.

[dagamer34 @ Nov 7th 2007 8:41PM]

I expected more problems with a .0 release but Leopard has definitely broken the mentality that a RTM release can be decent.

Now if only they'd change those damn scrollbars (and the color scheme to match iTunes 7 too).

One can dream. So much for a unified UI.

[KanosWRX @ Nov 7th 2007 8:45PM]

Cant come to soon, we are already thinking of going back to Tiger, I hate being a beta tester :(

[Dr Chaos @ Nov 7th 2007 8:47PM]

resist....must...resist.... aw hell

developers
developers
developers
developers!

[The Grand Master @ Nov 7th 2007 8:50PM]

And you know he isn't using Firefox on the Mac... how?

[Greg @ Nov 7th 2007 8:58PM]

Bugs being patched... quickly?
But... but... why?

[Bill @ Nov 7th 2007 9:19PM]

I have at least 5 - 6 major problems with my vista installation. I have to wait a year for them to maybe be fixed with an SP1 that is currently in beta and should have been available 10 months ago. A year after launch and 84 updates later is not enough for the biggest software company to address ANY of the issues I face with their OS!

On the other hand I have identified 3 serious issues with my Leopard the last couple weeks, the 10.5.1 list touches on all of them so hopefully there is a fix for every single one. I have been using OS X since Jaguar and none of the problems I was facing with the initial releases remained past the 10.x.3 release. That is 3 - 4 months after release tops.

So yes call me whatever but I surely prefer Apple's way of dealing with OS bugs.

I will never forget the mess of XP SP1 that caused Explorer to take MINUTES!!!! to display the contents of a folder. After several non-fixes and years gone by SP2 came along. In the mean time I just had to deal with Explorer being unusable! Sorry Windows is an ok OS but most of the time it is inexcusably horrible.

[Ruben @ Nov 7th 2007 9:51PM]

Explain those 5-6 major issues.