Microsoft's Surface taking a while to, you know, surface

While the tech demos are always sure to draw a crowd, Microsoft's Surface is still having trouble making it past the prototype stage. Originally slated to show up in a few commercial venues this year, applications of the tech have been pushed back to next spring at the earliest. Microsoft has plans to build devices for Sheraton hotels, Harrah's casinos and T-Mobile retail spots, but CNET reports that all the custom software needed and a lack of a one-size-fits-all solution for customers has Microsoft struggling to ship anything just yet. That said, there's still plenty of interest in Surface -- Microsoft says it's received 2,000+ inquiries from companies around the world and in many industries -- and while initial versions of the tabletop device are going to range from $5,000 to $10,000, Microsoft hopes to have a consumer-affordable version in three to five years.

[DickHardknocks @ Nov 9th 2007 10:12AM]

Reminds me of Forerunner panels in Halo.

I don't see something like this becoming mainstream in American homes for about 20 years or so (maybe 10 if manufacturing costs drop).

[Harry @ Nov 9th 2007 11:09AM]

Microsoft has turned into a lumbering giant.

[Jeff @ Nov 9th 2007 12:10PM]

blah blah blah...

And in other news Microsoft post yet another record quarter as it "lumbers" into irrelevancy.

[Patuxentbball @ Nov 11th 2007 12:52AM]

if i could use a forerunner theme on one of these....
thats would be the coolest thing EVER

[Paul @ Nov 9th 2007 1:35PM]

3 to 5 years for a consumer version? I've seen many consumer version of this, homemade projects and the sort. I'd just like to see the multi touch software made available...I have a freakin tablet, and I think it'd be cool to try it out on that.

[Nick @ Nov 9th 2007 2:56PM]

@Paul

The surface software doesn't use a touch screen, it uses cameras built into the table, so putting it on your tablet would be pretty useless.

[Rob @ Nov 9th 2007 10:15AM]

Microsoft having problems delivering on their promises? Now that's something new.

[Jeff @ Nov 9th 2007 10:27AM]

Yeah, because we all know that this doesn't happen to any other company.

[DickHardknocks @ Nov 9th 2007 10:32AM]

anti-Microsoft TROLLS got here FAST today.

Good thing this device wasn't designed by APPLE Computers cause then you idiots would be applauding it and pledging your lives to it - giving Steve Job's journalistic BJ's.

[Blackster @ Nov 9th 2007 10:35AM]

hmhm

i remember another company promising a great, never seen before keyboard for the masses and another company that claimed to revolutionize the gaming market with their console/pc-like internetstreaming games-system.

there have been some bogus companies out, but i think m$ will do the right thing for once ;)

[Esat @ Nov 9th 2007 10:38AM]

*cough* Sony *cough*

[Rob @ Nov 9th 2007 10:42AM]

You guys are so predictable. As soon as someone criticizes MS, you're named an Apple fanboy. Criticize Apple, you're an MS fanboy. One way or another, you're named a troll.

The fact of the matter is that MS releases have always been attached to delays. And, it's not the occasional delay as many other companies either. When it comes to MS, delays are the expected norm.

Why do you guys take this whole thing so personal anyway? MS, just like Apple, and/or any other corporation, doesn't care about you. They care about your money flowing in their direction.

[Quix @ Nov 9th 2007 5:02PM]

"Good thing this device wasn't designed by APPLE Computers cause then you idiots would be applauding it and pledging your lives to it - giving Steve Job's journalistic BJ's." - DickHardKnocks

That's the point, *Dick* - Apple wouldn't design something as pointless as this. But I digress. What about this story, exactly, concerns Apple? Oh, that's right, nothing. The OP isn't about Apple, nor are any of the comments before yours. Sadly, to trolls like you, *everything* is about Apple.

[Arnie @ Nov 9th 2007 6:04PM]

Jesus f*$@ Quix have you seen the demo of this thing in action? Pointless? Sheesh they have real practical stuff here intended currently to be used by companies rather than consumers.
that being said microsoft of course should have rather made sure they got everything right and then announced it cause then we wouldn't have trolls running around forums.

[Todd @ Nov 9th 2007 10:30AM]

"Surface is just some words on paper"

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/08/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-part-l-ballmer-says-android-just-some-word/

[Ricardo @ Nov 9th 2007 11:01AM]

wow...how stupid. www.microsoft.com/surface
On paper, right ?

[Sam Stone @ Nov 9th 2007 12:03PM]

Gawd...If you don't know the difference between paper and a Internet site, don't come here :P

[boss sauce @ Nov 9th 2007 3:33PM]

I watched some demos and got to play with the Surface at SIGGRAPH in San Diego.

You couldn't sit at it-- it's really a box, not a table, with no room for your knees under it. There's a little lip around the outside, but the screen is in the middle, so you need to angle your legs away from it and lean over it, twisting your back.

The demos did a great job of showing off the lag-- it's really bad. Nothing really "stuck" to your finger when you manipulated it, making direct manipulation feel silly. Try to arrange tiles with moving footage when the square with the footage is catching up with the tile you're moving-- very frustrating. The way they've set up the system, I don't see how they can get rid of the lag.

The icing on the cake was the Microsoft employees actually running the demos-- they sure seemed like they hated their jobs and wanted to go home.

[michael @ Nov 10th 2007 1:10AM]

@Boss Sauce:

Amazing, I happened to be there as well.

I thought the demo was pretty neat. You should keep in mind that this is still a thing in 'research'. Not something that's meant for consumers until quite a while.

There was some lag, but not a whole lot as you said. I only noticed that with the moving tiles kind of.

And I doubt the MS employees hated their job. I sometimes read their employee blogs (with absolutely no influence from MS, if that's what you're thinking), and they really like working for MS. Just like any other tech company, MS employees have tons of perks and fun things.

Most likely, the ones at the event were just getting kind of bored trying to impress people all day. I wouldn't be all smiley-wiley after some time either.

[FordGTGuy @ Nov 9th 2007 10:32AM]

Really did anyone actually expect a technology like this to launch so quickly?

[John Doe @ Nov 9th 2007 10:47AM]

Yah a lot of people did. An yah there are a lot of morons out there.

[Paul @ Nov 9th 2007 11:11AM]

Yeah, Apple announced it and delivered, in a much smaller package and on time. Hackers at Make have been building these things for years, so what's Microsoft's excuse? Surface is just more vaporware from the company that's best at it.

[applefreak @ Nov 9th 2007 11:33AM]

@ Paul
what is your definition of on time, Apple took 6 years to build the iPhone
MS is taking just as long to build a $10000 110lb.
computer sounds just like the norm
MS calls it a revolution and says it has new tech

[JJtbone @ Nov 9th 2007 12:34PM]

Didn't the movie Tron have this technology? That was a pretty long time ago.

[Brad @ Nov 9th 2007 1:26PM]

The MS Surface does NOT rely on surface refraction technology, the way that the ones on Make do (and the initial Jeff Han screens). It uses two high-resolution cameras, placed at right angles to each other, and aimed at the back of a projection medium. It composites the image overlay to determine distance from the screen.

The challenge isn't in getting the multi-touch aspect working, it's making a useful product out of it (rainbow finger-painting is not useful, it's pretty). Recognizing a digital camera, initiating a bluetooth connection to it, and then launching a photo manager, all from the roughly square silhouette of a camera base? That's some complex object recognition.

Also, IIRC, Microsoft said that the product would ship "initially" in November - not meet every custom use and special application by then.

[Paul @ Nov 9th 2007 1:40PM]

@Brad...umm...my understanding is that it doesn't recognize the object silhouette and install things and start software, the object has to have some sort of recognizeable signature, possibly from a bluetooth transmitter, more likely from an implanted RFID chip.

So, recognizing a camera based on it's RFID reading is hardly that astounding. For god's sake it's a macro. If RFID=0A0EF31D (check for installed software, install software if missing, load photo editor, download pictures)...ooh freakin ahh.

[Brad @ Nov 12th 2007 2:17PM]

@Paul: If that's the case, how does it know which credit card is being referenced when four are sitting on the table at the same time?

The system uses five cameras (sorry, not two as I mentioned earlier) to track and recognize objects. Four for positioning, and then a single high-resolution still camera to take pictures to do complex object recognition on.

Simple RFID is not enough for this application. Not the least of which is that if you put down your credit card, the reader on a surface that big would certainly extend beyond the edge of the table, and well into your wallet as you sit there.

It sure is fun to tear down a product by assuming you know exactly how it works and then blasting the designers because it's "so simple", huh?

[Benson Leung @ Nov 9th 2007 10:39AM]

One day, your computer will be a bigass table.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY

[Paul @ Nov 9th 2007 1:42PM]

And when you go to have dinner, it'll tell you the leaves are too wilted. And if you slam a bowl down it'll buy stock.

[marklar @ Nov 9th 2007 10:41AM]

its woo woo vapourware - thought that when i saw the demo - as todd said, its basically 'just a few words on paper' at the moment. there are immense technical difficulties in doing something like this and its either going to be scaled down drastically or take several years to get right. another royal f*** up from the company that pretends its innovates but just doesnt have it in its culture.

[NeoK182 @ Nov 9th 2007 10:50AM]

jesus you fanboys are annoying.

anyway thanks engadget for this post i was wondering why it still wasn't in any of the t-mobile stores around here.

[fistpittingnork @ Nov 9th 2007 11:00AM]

Looking through Engadget's gallery for an older Surface article I saw this: http://www.engadget.com/gallery/microsoft-surface-surface-and-gesture-based-computing-lands/257357/

Just where the hell are they were chicken wraps cost $9?

[fistpittingnork @ Nov 9th 2007 11:25AM]

Actually, that should read "wHere", not "were".

Also,

"Wrap your mouth around our scrumptious masterpiece"?

No you really have to wonder what type of establishment this Surface table is setup at.

[Alan Partridge @ Nov 9th 2007 11:39AM]

They have to get their money back on Surface somehow

[Paul @ Nov 9th 2007 1:44PM]

You're thinking in "2006 dollars", it's 2007, where the dollar is worth roughly a quarter, so that chicken wrap is a steal at only $2.25 (in 2006 dollars)

[Homeboy @ Nov 9th 2007 11:09AM]

Surface is dead cool but might not ever see day light in consumer stores. The technology is highly unpractical and uses cameras and such. It will take one or two decades before the surface thecnology in implimented into portable gadgets at a reasonable cost.

[Danielle @ Nov 9th 2007 11:13AM]

This reminds me too much of the reactable. Which came first?

[Bizam! @ Nov 9th 2007 11:16AM]

There are definitely a few things that have come out recently based on the Surface technology, specifically reacTable (Surface-based Synthesizer):

http://mtg.upf.es/reactable/

It's not quite a consumer product just yet, but it's getting there...

[Addy Osmani @ Nov 9th 2007 11:17AM]

I'm neither an Apple or Microsoft fanboy, but I will say this..

Surface is essentially an R&D Project from the looks of it and I wouldn't be surprised if the first time it's commercially available is 2009.

I've been lucky enough to use some of those devices engadget's featured over the years that all sorts of troll's claim will never see the light of day - anyone remember that $40,000 computer built into a mirror?. I've used one. One of the problems that companies like Microsoft trying to push the boundaries of a form factor run into is finding ways to keep up the investment (or profit) in an idea long enough for it to even get to the stage where it's viable as a general consumer product.

Just because MS makes billions doesn't mean that all of that is getting thrown into ideas like Surface so give the guys behind it a break and be patient. If it turns out to be everything it's aspiring to be, I'm sure that at least one or two of you will eventually have one in your office or living room.

[JS @ Nov 9th 2007 11:23AM]

I predict a future when people will reminisce about the days when their coffee tables didn't require frequent rebooting.

[eppyjerk @ Nov 9th 2007 11:33AM]

Damn these guys are good tippers! 27 and 29% tips? I guess if you're dining in a place that can afford $10K tables, you have that kind of money to tip.

[tekdemon @ Nov 9th 2007 2:51PM]

Keep in mind that since it's the table that's taking your orders and helping you pay your bill, you're actually going to be tipping Microsoft Surface that 27% and 29%.

[eddie @ Nov 9th 2007 11:34AM]

The part where they take those blocks of video and move them around reminds me a lot of Dr. Brygg Ullmer's own work with data blocks: http://csc.lsu.edu/~ullmer/

Still, what MS hopes to accomplish will take, at least from what is shown in their websites, will take many more years to accomplish, and even more time to get it into the average household.

[illingist trooper @ Nov 9th 2007 11:53AM]

I think they're working on Origami... Or Bob OS... Or something...

[ueseven @ Nov 9th 2007 12:24PM]

yet iPhone is the cheapest multi touch device available now...

[insertAlias @ Nov 9th 2007 1:18PM]

Wow. Let's compare a $10,000 30" box computer to a $600 cell phone. That makes perfect sense...they're both multitouch!

Jackass...

[Jason @ Nov 9th 2007 12:47PM]

I hope they can get this thing out. It's an interesting concept.

By the way, Jeff (poster #3), just because Microsoft has a "record quarter" doesn't mean it isn't a "lumbering giant." There are many companies out there who are built on a foundation of wealth and market share, yet still create crap (or the promise of crap). Money is a poor argument.

[Andir3.0 @ Nov 9th 2007 4:07PM]

Even Uncle Scrooge couldn't protect his money bin from an earthquake.

[Philip Cotty @ Nov 9th 2007 1:04PM]

It's sad that Microsoft has all that money and can't ship this product, while Perceptive Pixel has a far superior product, and has a pile of military contracts they've already filled. They just presented at the NY Tech meetup at IAC this week, and it's really amazing!

Not much in terms of product info, but the founder, Jeff Han, expects "ambient computing" to be at the consumer price level in "under 10 years."

http://www.perceptivepixel.com/

[LinuxISortaRules @ Nov 9th 2007 1:22PM]

Wouldn't you have to have a pretty much empty coffee table or similar surface for this thing to work?

My coffee table is heaped up with stuff like magazines, remote controls, a wireless laptop [or two, when I need to do Windows or Solaris] and the signature iconic nearly empty pizza box. It sure looks cool, but unlike the MS guys, I don't have servants to clean up after me.