Sony's Stringer: Blu-ray vs. HD DVD battle a "stalemate"

Things have been a bit rough for Blu-ray lately. Those massive price cuts gave HD DVD a boost in market share and Paramount's abrupt departure was certainly a tad, shall we say, embarrassing. So we wonder, just what does Sony's boss, and figure-head of the smack-talking Blu-ray Disc Association, have to say about the state of the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war? It's a "stalemate," according to Sir Howard Stringer. He goes on to downplay the winner as nothing more than a matter of prestige while lamenting the lack of a unified standard. A far cry from the BDA's boastful claim of victory just 11 months ago.

[Thanks, Andrew]

[Jeff @ Nov 9th 2007 3:56AM]

And if you HD-DVD and Blu-Ray guys don't agree with him, he'll threaten to kill you.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Nov 9th 2007 4:36AM]

LoL.

They admit they finally have run out of money to throw onto the war.

And all the money would have to be earned back from somewhere - most likely leading to next disk format (after HD DVD and Blu-ray) delayed and being even more expensive.

P.S. Expect HD DVD flamebois to get pumped

[Magnulus @ Nov 9th 2007 4:41AM]

Is it just me or is that Sony-talk for "we lost"?
Shame, really. All I wanted was for the format with the most storage space to win... Also, this puts any future PS3 purchase into kind of a limbo.

[nxtiak @ Nov 9th 2007 5:13AM]

Why would it? If Blu-Ray lost it will be for movies. Sony will still publish PS3 games on Blu-Ray.. just like PSP uses UMD, the only thing it uses and supports. And there are Blu-Ray drives you can buy to burn your stuff onto it..... but then again, why would you do that? It'll go the way Zip drives would :)

[Garst @ Nov 9th 2007 5:28AM]

@nxtiak

I think he thinking a little be more on the long term plan. If blu-ray does lose out the movie fight, it wouldn't be wise to continue making games on the format because any future console would also have to have a blu-ray drive to have any backwards compatability. So if they go to HD-DVD in the future for games, they'll need to put a combo drive in the system which would be expensive. Microsoft on the other hand, though they won't admit to it, was wise when they dicided to stay with DVDs for games. That way they wouldn't have the same problem that Sony is likely will face.

[Serengeti @ Nov 9th 2007 6:27AM]

@garst

Minor quibble with your argument, but:
Combo drive expensive? I don't think so. The media is the same size and composition, and the PS3, as a gaming system, replaces all the software side of a typical disc player. And it's modifiable, so any difference in software required to read an HDDVD could easily be written in.

The only combo players out there are expensive only because they need to include both sets of firmware and manage the two.

[Static @ Nov 9th 2007 7:20AM]

Sony isn't the last say on Blu ray. People still cannot get it wrapped around their heads that while sony has power in the BDA they were only given so much because they were willing to put their money where their mouth was.

But I am not going to even get into that subject but rather ask, if anyone knows the ratio and amount of disks sold outside of the US. I think those will paint a big picture as well.

[Rususeruru @ Nov 9th 2007 11:00AM]

To my knowledge HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray outside of the US. It would help the Blu Camps cause if there were only 1 standard and Panasonic & Sony would stop bickering.

[Spider1981 @ Nov 9th 2007 2:20PM]

@Rususeruru
I have read from numerous sources that HD DVD is being outsold by a margin upwards of 4:1 (and in some cases much higher) by Blu-Ray in other countries. I have also read that the United States is one of the only countries where Blu-Ray is being matched so closely by HD DVD in sales.

[teej @ Nov 9th 2007 3:41PM]

@nxtiak,

i believe Magnulus' reason for possibly purchasing a PS3 is the cheap-Bluray-player factor.

[Lee Richards @ Nov 9th 2007 5:12AM]

Wow Magnulus, you've certainly made a jump there. Remember, software sales are what will win this war, and one side has managed to sell more software week on week, month on month. Based on the upcoming releases, that margin is only going to increase in the next couple of weeks/months. Regardless of what anyone thinks about Sony, there are many other massive CE companies involved so it's my opinion that we will either have two formats around for a long time yet, or the bluer of the two will take the crown.

[NineT9 @ Nov 9th 2007 5:20AM]

very well said Lee Richards! Couldn't agree more :) Either BluRay wins, or neither/both... And now...expect to hear the typical hddvd fanboy replies, lets hear your bias opinion boys!

[Magnulus @ Nov 9th 2007 5:24AM]

Sorry, did that reply go to YOU? I meant for it to go to the other guy. Sorry about that. Anyway, the argument is much the same. I won't be able to afford buying a PS3 AND an HD DVD player for quite some time, so the PS3 is kind of out of the question for now. I never said it meant I definitely wouldn't buy one, just that it makes the future a bit uncertain.

[Serengeti @ Nov 9th 2007 6:30AM]

@NineT9

"very well said Lee Richards! Couldn't agree more :) Either BluRay wins, or neither/both... And now...expect to hear the typical hddvd fanboy replies, lets hear your bias opinion boys!"

No matter what HDDVD fanboys have to say, I think you have them beat when it comes to "typical." I think the pot is going to kick your ass for what you called it.

[Magnulus @ Nov 9th 2007 5:19AM]

Exactly, I'd rather not have to buy a second HD player once Blu-Ray has completely lost, especially with the way the prices are right now. I was always going to buy a PS3, but now I'll have to consider whether or not to get an xbox instead. Also, I never did buy a PSP, namely because it was too constricted. (got a GP2X instead way back then and can't say I regret it.)
Luckily, any HD purchase is still a year or two off for a student like me, so by then both players and the PS3 will be much cheaper, so yay for that!

[Gadgie @ Nov 9th 2007 5:17AM]

So I just wanted to point out that even though there were only 135k copies of Spider-Man 3 sold in the first week, this is not a disappointment. I say this because these sales did not include the box set, which was leading in sales on amazon.com throughout the entire week (the box set was about 45th on the top selling dvds throughout the week, while the single disc was about 65th).

So hopefully the Nielsen report coming out later today will clear things up. I expect Ratatouille to come out and be the first HD disc with 200k sales in the first week.

[Evan @ Nov 9th 2007 9:07AM]

Not a dissappointment? Even counting boxed sets, a couple hundred thousand is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of DVDs sold. And it's no better for HD DVD - Transformers sold 180,000 HD DVDs versus 8.3 million regular DVDs. Both high definition formats combined still account for less than 1% of the overall DVD software market.

[Antoni @ Nov 9th 2007 5:21AM]

I cant believe you guys still paying attention to HD DVD...

ITS A DEAD FORMAT get over it and get a Blue-Ray if you don't already. If not get your HD DVD player get your HD DVD movies be happy now because in a year or so you will have nothing more than an incomplete players and format...

Blue-Ray was the clear winner from DAY ONE...
The war exist only in Toshiba's head and its supporters the rest of the world have a Blue winner.

Engadget just because Blue-Ray it's SONY doesn't mean its bad. It's time to show some love to Sony I thing we had enough hating to that company from this site...

[Fruition @ Nov 9th 2007 5:30AM]

You're either a troll or just an ignorant fool.

HD-DVD is very much alive. I know because I'm angry with it. It is the reason that I can't get any hi-def Universal or Paramount movies. If it were to die, then Universal and Paramount would give me my Blu-ray titles I so deeply desire. But until that day, I'm stuck watching Spidey in HD... which isn't so bad, but still.

[Luke @ Nov 9th 2007 5:31AM]

Actually I believe HD-DVD is the one with a complete format at this very moment.

I'm sure the whole 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 Blue Ray thing slipped your mind.

[Larsen @ Nov 9th 2007 5:34AM]

so funny of you to say that HD is incomplete, while BD is the format with three different profiles that continue to confuse customers. meanwhile the companies behind BD keep on milking their customers for sure while selling "old profile" players for 3-4 times the money a "final profile" from the HD camp costs.

also, BD is NOT sony, it's the BDA where sony is only one member of many. somehow i get the feeling you're not too familiar with you so suppirior format. maybe this link should clear some things up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluray

[Static @ Nov 9th 2007 7:27AM]

I don't get it. Either customers are informed or they are uninformed. the HD-DVD supporters say that their format would win because of simple association yet the average customer for BD's are going to know/care what profiles are?

I have never seen such attempts to downplay an issue while promoting another item in such a manner other than the video game console wars. BTW, since it is claimed the majority of PS3 gamers do not "know" what blu ray is and that tremendous boost in HD-DVD players installed in homes, that should mean HD-DVD movie sales should now match/beat Blu-ray sales right? I mean, if it doesn't how are you going to rationalize that away?

[teej @ Nov 9th 2007 4:29PM]

i hate when people spell 'Blu-ray' incorrectly as 'Blue-ray.' BD fanboys are friggin' idiots.

also, Sony has lost every format war it in which it has partaken.

[Bryan @ Nov 9th 2007 8:44PM]

@Teej

You're mostly right... except for one of the most successful formats ever: the Compact Disc. Ever heard of it?

Sony and Philips made it.

[JD @ Nov 9th 2007 9:24PM]

ok, Bryan. Perfect. They've won one. Oh wait. Who were they competing against? Anyways, with DVD, they came to a compromise, ultimately modifying Toshiba's Super Density Disc with one attribute from Sony/Philips' MMCD, and DVD came out, so I'd say even that's closer to a loss, even though it was the ideal outcome for consumers. Heard of Betamax? UMD (which I think is extra ironic, since the first word is "universal," even though it plays on exactly 1 device), Minidisc (which was popular outside of the US, mine was great until i got an MP3 player)? And spanning into file formats, ATRAC? Sony has made a habit of thinking they are bigger than they actually are, and overstepping their bounds. I think that competition is good for many things as it encourages innovation, but HD disc format is not one of those things. They should all just hang out, have a chat, and come up with a single format that uses the best of both. We (consumers) win that way.

[dsfrantz @ Nov 9th 2007 5:27AM]

i really hope hd-dvd doesn't win.. the last thing we need is another microsoft-developed standard..

[Larsen @ Nov 9th 2007 5:37AM]

same here: HD ist NOT just MS. interesting link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD.

the last thing the customer needs is an HD market with overpriced players and media...IMO.

[Luke @ Nov 9th 2007 5:38AM]

YEAH! just like MS-DVDs and MS-CDs and even MS-VHS. Don't let in another microsoft physical media format in to our lives.

[Fred @ Nov 9th 2007 5:39AM]

Microsoft didn't develop HD-DVD. Your bash failed.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Nov 9th 2007 7:18AM]

Larsen, you made me recall Sony's MD...

*srugging*

*running away* **real fast**

[Fred @ Nov 9th 2007 5:29AM]

I love how people here are shouting about what the 'HD-DVD fanboys' are going to to, and then start spouting the same biased message themselves.

[Garst @ Nov 9th 2007 5:41AM]

Did you even read the article? Sony did just about everything but say that they are going to stop supporting blu-ray. And just because you say something doesn't automatically make it true, so don't try to confuse people with your belligerent ramblings. And also learn to spell what you're trying to back; it's "blu-ray" without an "e." Why the BDA choose to leave out the "e" is beyond me, but they did.

[Garst @ Nov 9th 2007 5:43AM]

Just to clearify this post, it was meant as a reply to Antoni's post.

[Cesar Cardoso @ Nov 9th 2007 6:09AM]

Why oh why this hasn't received the CE-Oh No He Didn't tag?

Any Sony exec admitting that Blu-ray isn't going to dominate the world tomorrow is well worth it.

[Larsen @ Nov 9th 2007 6:15AM]

obviously because he didn't say somehting foolish this time around. saying the truth should not be punished. ;)

oh, i can see the BD fanbois running towards me already...

[Static @ Nov 9th 2007 7:42AM]

Why? Still associating BDA with sony only? The boasful claims were made by BDA president Frank Simonis who comes from philips. Is it really neccessary to attach sony and or PS3 to everything Blu-ray. There are blu ray supporters who do not care for sony/PS3 and some PS3 owners who do not care about Blu-ray vs HD-DVD.

[Jack @ Nov 9th 2007 6:29AM]

I wish someone would hurry up and win this "format war" I want high definition movies without having to pick a side!

[Serengeti @ Nov 9th 2007 6:38AM]

Go ahead, pick a side. It doesn't matter. The result, years from now, will be exactly the same, no matter who wins.

Unlike Beta/VHS, where the tape sizes were different, the disc sizes of both HDDVD and BluRay is the same. The cost of supporting both sets of firmware will eventually drop to $99 and no one will care who makes the player because they will all support both formats.

If Toshiba wins, expect Toshiba to make HDDVD/BluRay capable players. If Sony wins, expect Sony to make BluRay/HDDVD capable players. And when they do, they'll tell everyone that they're doing it for the good of the consumer. "Don't throw your old BluRay library away! Toshiba's HD-A500 can play any format on the market!"

[Evan @ Nov 9th 2007 9:19AM]

@Serengeti
I thought the message was "buy your complete movie collection again". First, the studios release a standard edition. Later, they release a "special-edition", just long enough after the standard edition's release that no fan could resist going without the movie for that time. Next, they release a stripped-down high-definition version. Then a year later they release a new high-definition version that's re-mastered and encoded better. They really seem to be trying to get us to buy the same movie again, and again.

[ethana2 @ Nov 9th 2007 12:36PM]

I pick the internet. ...and if copyright is going to hold content on inferior media, then they're just going to give Free Culture an edge. Once we catch up, and we will, over the next ten years, they will have screwed themselves over.

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
...then you win.

[HD4ME @ Nov 9th 2007 6:57AM]

HD DVD players to replace DVD players within 12 months!!

"Some industry experts suggest that within the next six to twelve months, traditional DVD players will be hard to find on store shelves as HD DVD players are completely backwards compatible with legacy DVD discs."


http://www.avrev.com/news/1107/08.hddvd190.shtml

[Fruition @ Nov 9th 2007 7:09AM]

What? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. DVD players are dirt cheap compared to HD-DVD players.

[Tony @ Nov 9th 2007 7:31AM]

> HD DVD players to replace DVD players within 12 months!!

Cool, I'll wait 12 months to buy one then and I may as well grab that copy of duke nukem forever sitting beside the player and hire a hover-car to get home, because both are as likely to happen.

[HD4ME @ Nov 9th 2007 7:31AM]

And $98-$150 for a HD DVD player isn't cheap???
Between now and Christmas Walmart will have them back to $98 again, no question about that, Walmart wants to dominate the new HD market-Black Friday!!
Why would you buy a $50 P.O.S DVD player when for a little more u can buy HD DVD player.
Sounds quite feasible 2 me.

[HD4ME @ Nov 9th 2007 7:35AM]

My mistake, the article must be wrong, apparently Fruition and Tony are "industry experts"

[John @ Nov 9th 2007 8:12AM]

Pffft Sony and their proprietary formats need to take a hike. HD-DVD is the Clear winner here. Mini Disc, Blu-ray, Memory stick, betamax. Get the hell out of here sony. I'm not even going to capitalize that name sony sucks.

[Patrick Dunn @ Nov 9th 2007 8:21AM]

I'd have to NOT put my money with Sony's format. Betamax, HDV, Memory stick, the list goes on

[wjousts @ Nov 9th 2007 5:45PM]

This is silly. The truth is that DVD is trashing both formats and will continue to do so for the next 3-5 years at least.

[AJ @ Nov 9th 2007 9:51PM]

True, but something will replace DVD eventually and it might as well be HD DVD.

[jntaylor @ Nov 9th 2007 8:36AM]

My 2 cents and I'm no fan-boy of either format. I want 1 single format or universal players.

With that out of the way, this statement from Sony shows that they just blinked in this war. Yes, you could argue that this is just a sell off of cheap players, but this move just got 90,000 players in the market with new HD-DVD customers. (Kind of the same plan Sony had with the PS3; sneak in a Blu-Ray player with your game system) The goal is not to sell hardware but software. Now people have the player, they will get movies.

Come January 08, I would bet that we will see a press release from Warner stating that they are dropping the Blu and moving solely to the Red.