Sony's Stringer: Blu-ray vs. HD DVD battle a "stalemate"
By Thomas Ricker 
posted November 9th 2007 3:52AM
posted November 9th 2007 3:52AM
Things have been a bit rough for Blu-ray lately. Those massive price cuts gave HD DVD a boost in market share and Paramount's abrupt departure was certainly a tad, shall we say, embarrassing. So we wonder, just what does Sony's boss, and figure-head of the smack-talking Blu-ray Disc Association, have to say about the state of the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war? It's a "stalemate," according to Sir Howard Stringer. He goes on to downplay the winner as nothing more than a matter of prestige while lamenting the lack of a unified standard. A far cry from the BDA's boastful claim of victory just 11 months ago.[Thanks, Andrew]
Dear Sony & Tosh
I love you both. Sales must be tough. Confusion in the air. Fans and foes taking sides. None really winning. A niche drawn to your products, the rest waiting it out.
I think it's time to focus a bit more on the rewritable PC drive side, and get those benefits communicated for all those tired of limited DVD capacities.
Sincerely,
Joe Customer
I find it funny all the comments about waiting for the HD-DVD fanboys or the like. What I see here is the BD supporters (to not offend the good ones, I should say zealots or fanboys) yet again spining and launching a preemptive strike on this news, that their fearless leader doesn't seem to fearless anymore.
Those who are calling HD-DVD, wake up and smell the coffee. Though, I guess denial is the first stage? How could a dead format sell 90,000+ in three days? Do not give me the dumping or fire sale. No one can prove how much, if any money Toshiba is losing, there is just a article from 2006 about the A1's that for some reason is getting used. Not a good example when consider how fast moving electronics is and that it is over a year old. Also, how else would a dead format nearly squeak out a sales win when BDA is using BOGO to buy the win. Then there was Paramount and Dreamworks jumping ship, also, do not give me the buy it. This has been proven to be false, the money was for promotions, not directly to the studio. On top of that, you have the BD/BDA's fearless leader, the very same person who has made such bold claims as the format war being over before BDA ever had a player on the market and such. Now changing his tune to say it is a stalemate. I am not exactly sure how to read this, but this is a rather drastic change in tone.
All I got to say, the end of Q4 is going to be interesting. With those 90,000+ hardware sales for HD-DVD, it is going to mean more software sales in the long run. Though, BD does have a pretty solid end of the year line-up.
They are not losing much...if any! The retailers took the brunt of the loss...
at $198 wal-mart was losing 8.59% on every player...at $98 that amount increases dramatically....
I honestly believe that HD-DVD will win simply because it's cheaper AND has "HD" in its name.
The letters "HD" are synonymous with "shiny new stuff."
The majority of consumers are not all that bright when it comes to the nuances of each different tech, so cost and name-regognition will win the day.
For good, or bad, that's my prediction...
HD is the HiFi of the 2000's & 2010's eh?
I think that it will win because it has "DVD" in its name. To the average "dumb" consumer (ie. one who isn't on Engadget reading tech news every day), HD DVD tells you exactly what it is. It's a "Hi Def DVD!" Ask a random person if they know what Blu-Ray is. I was at a bar last night where they gave away a door prize. It was the Spiderman 3 DVD/Blu-ray. A lady with our group won. She asked "what the hell is blu-ray?" I was the only one out of a group of ten that actually knew what it was. Most had heard about it, but didn't know what it did.
The point is, if Blu-ray wants to win the average, non-tech crowd, they need to advertise/sell themselves better. Otherwise, people go with what makes sense. (Think iPod. Not the only PMP out there, or even the best. But the average consumer buys it because its been branded so well, they call all PMPs iPods.)
"i really hope hd-dvd doesn't win.. the last thing we need is another microsoft-developed standard.."
excellent , that will be my reply to everyone who feels the need to argue about this subject
You have to congratulate Microsoft on this. Blu-ray had the war won until Microsoft put their hefty finances behind HD-DVD. Microsoft’s support for the format got Xbox 360 and Microsoft enthusiasts very excided about HD-DVD and made them very enthusiastic for HD-DVD to win.
What Microsoft fans have failed to realise is that Microsoft don’t want HD-DVD to win. Their reason for backing the losing HD-DVD format was to make it more competitive with Blu-ray and thus create the stalemate situation we have now. With neither HD format becoming dominant there will be a large opening in the HD movie market which Microsoft want to fill with downloadable movies. While Microsoft would gain nothing from HD-DVD winning they will gain a lot if services offering movies to download to your Windows PC take off and sales of software like Windows Home Server would receive a considerable sales boost. Microsoft’s intentions have been obvious from the beginning and quite how HD-DVD enthusiasts have fallen for it I don’t know but now everyone is royally screwed.
While I am all up for downloadable movies in principle the fact is that the infrastructure doesn’t exist to support it. The maximum speed connection I can get where I live is 3.5Mbit/sec so downloading a 20GB HD movies would take an eternity. To accommodate people with slow connections the quality of the audio and video on downloadable movies is going to have to be reduced considerably compared to Blu-ray/HD-DVD and if Microsoft’s plans succeed we’re going to be watching some very low quality movies. Thanks to Microsoft nobody wins, particularly not the consumer.
GOOD HD movies dont have to be 20Gigs.. Ihave plenty of 720p and 1080p movies on DVD-5 and DVD-9 ..check out Bit-HDTV and HD Bits. (google em)
MS could simply move to a matroska format and enable the 360's to play MKV's and violla .. you have Hi-Def movies 4 to 8 gigs.
Actually Microsoft does have a stake in HD-DVD winning because it will gain them royalties for HDi. By the way everyone should look at the comparison chart on the wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
The reason I favor HD-DVD is simple, more of the components are mandatory meaning more of the features are available on all players.
jmbear101, the HD formats are not just about HD video but HD audio. With DTS-HD Master Audio supporting up to 24.5 Mbit/s a 90minitue movie could use 16.15GB on the audio alone. Clearly HD lossless audio formats will have to be scrapped for downloads and you’ll only get the rather poor audio you get with DVD at the moment. Secondly, just because video is 1080p doesn’t mean it’s high quality. There’s nothing more distracting when watching a movie than when you’re spotting compression artefacts all over the screen and that’s what you’d get with downloadable movies.
As for your other point that Microsoft could abandon their own WMV format and switch to MKV, I don’t think you’re being particularly realistic in your expectations. There’s about as much chance they’d do that as Toshiba abandoning HD-DVD and switching to Blu-ray.
Rususeruru, the reason I support Blu-ray is also shown in that chart – 66% higher capacity and 47.6% higher transfer rate, both leading to higher quality video and audio. For an video disc format the most important thing to me is the video and audio quality. I’m really not interested in internet support or picture in picture as I prefer to browse the web on my computer and prefer to only watch one video feed at a time.
I have a PS3 and a $99.00 Hd-A2. There is no difference in the actual video quality or sound quality. Stop trying to justify your purchases people. I prefer Blu-Ray because of title selection and
price. Blu-Ray disc are cheaper. The Reaping was $34.99 on HD-DVD and $29.99 on Blu-Ray. I'm pissed I have to buy two formats just to get the movies I want. The customer loses in this alleged war.
Often the reason for that (and the reason I want HD DVD to die) is because companies like Warner, makes one encode fit the smallest space (HD DVD) and then reuses the same encode on Blu-Ray even though there's 40% more space.
I don’t particularly care for this war but people need to lighten off betamax just a bit. Consumer choice was VHS but the media and many non film professional services were mostly beta.
I'm neutral in this matter. Just like most people I want HD Movies asap for the cheapest price. But the only advantage HD-DVD has over BLU-RAY is that its region free. So all moview from anywhere in the world will play in it.
Wait, seriously? Region free?
I hate regions with a passion. I think they're evil, and I think they need to go away.
That said, torrents don't have regions either. Nevermind.
Most Blu-ray movies aren't region encoded either.
@Jeebus, the difference is, the capability is in the format specification... it's at the discretion of the content creator. So, we could still see region encoded discs on Blu-Ray.
You never offer a draw unless you know you are losing.
Maybe Minidisc will make a comeback!
Stringer also noted that there had been an opportunity to unite the two camps before he became CEO, and that he wished he could travel back in time to make it happen.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7879&Itemid=2
I have no opinion as to what format is better. I don't plan on buying either in the near future. I do think it important to observer that SONY is the king of proprietary technology. They are notorious for taking existing technology--i.e. 1394--and modifying it just ever so slightly. If they license their proprietary version, they then charge exorbitant license fees.
As an aside, SONY used to mean quality at a price. Several years ago, they started cutting corners and it now means overpriced crap. There are exceptions, especially in their professional products space, but their consumer market quality has definitely taken a nose dive.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm not buying into either format as long as this "war" goes on.
Either this "war" has to end, or someone has to come out with a good HD-DVD/BluRay player for under $300. Until then, I'm sitting this one out.
Check this from LG. Dual player under 300 in Canada, ignore the price on the LG page
http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/computer%20products_optical%20drives_optical%20drives_GGW-H10NI.jhtml
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX18988(ME).aspx
OMG! It's the apocalypse!
As a regular consumer, not a fanboy of either format, the format I am leaning toward is HD-DVD. Why? Two words: region coding.
As far as I can tell, there is none in the HD-DVD format specification, but there is in Blu-Ray. Both formats are going to play the same movies with the same audio/visual quality, but as a Brit living in the US, being able to view content from both sides of the pond is critical.
Storage capacity really doesn't matter a jot. So HD-DVDs will either have less bonus content, or the bonus content will be on a second disc? Big freaking deal.
having access to both, I have to say that there is a slight perceived edge to the visuals for HD DVD (but I admit, I may be imagining this) but the sound quality of the BD is easily better. I started off hoping that BD would lose because I am a bit sore at Sony for the list of medium that were statistically better, but fail due to inadequate support (SACD the first in my mind). Now I'm just hoping that BD takes off so that I can keep from adding the PS3 to my list of fruitless purchases. BTw...Im curious. does bluray disc sales include games or is it strictly bluray movies?
So what does crow taste like?
I am going to laugh with all my heard to all of you guys that support HD DVD. Just wait and see what will happened to your favorite format...
You don't have to ware hight class taxito just a black t-shirt is fine, its only going to be a small and unnoticeable funeral.
I am not going to comment any more to this story because it is more than clear that your comments are "stuck brain" to the fake and funny HD DVD mythology, just look at the comments rating, every single comment that stays Blue-Ray is better and the clear winner is marked as negative...
You guys are so funny..... and cheap
Wake up and mark X your HD DVD. The sooner you switch to Blue-Ray the more money you going to save...
Yeah, anyone who spells Blu-ray "Blue-ray" is clearly in the know. You are so wise. *bows*
Don't bow to him! You'll crinkle your tuxedo!
I've said this before an I'll say it again. There doesn't need to be one clear winner. This "idea" that only one format should hold monopoly has been created by the manufacturers, and propagated by the media (I'm looking at you engadget). The only real loser in this strategy is the consumer, but when has that ever mattered.
Not sure what a "taxito" is, but that post was unintentionally hilarious. I'll be sure to "ware" my "hight class taxito" to "Blue-ray"'s funeral in, oh, about two months or so. Shouldn't take much longer than that now; the handwriting is clearly on the wall.
Mike does your friends telling you that you are good in jokes??
Because from your post what I get is just a joke and between us two, not a good one...
lol
One of the biggest blows for BR is all the BR faithful who have just bought $98 A2s and gone format neutral, and those who will in the near future also because of pricing.
They, the 'X'-BR faithful, will start stocking up on HD DVD software now as well,particularly because they are all ready HD educated, and there in lies the massive danger for BRay.
The opposite is not happening because BR is too damn expensive for HD DVD fans to go neutral, so all of a sudden, the market is going format neutral and both sides are buying HD DVD software.
Wait a sec...
I just realized something. Sony has a habit of saying wild statements which are often the opposite of the truth. For example, saying that rumble was "last-gen" and that they weren't giving the PS3 a price cut, and then they were, and then they weren't again...
My point is, if this were true, Sony wouldn't be saying it! The very fact that Sony is saying it means it must be a lie!
My twisted logic tells me that in fact Blu-ray is winning the format war!
^_^
So you acknowledge sony is deceiving the public on an ongoing basis then?
That assumes there is someone who actually BELIEVES Sony's crazy talk. I believe that Sony frequently lies. Whether or not anyone is deceived is debatable.
The Blu-Ray side, over and over again has said it's "WON THE WAR" and that the other format is dead. We all know that's a lie. Unless you a complete Blu-Ray fanboy. Now they are saying it's a Stalemate. Do you really think they would say that if some BAD news wasn't coming? Why not keep saying more BS of Winning the war?
Toshiba may be loosing some money on each player, but SONY is loosing a bundle on each PS3. Toshiba is basically in this alone for now, which you would think is a bad thing, but it's NOT. Toshiba doesn't have to worry about undercutting the competition. The Blu-Ray camp can't do this. They Can't sell players at a loss they loose money and they aren't going to get any back on Blu-Ray movie sales other then SONY mainly. The Blu-Ray side is stuck with High prices. The HD DVD side can keep pushing cheap HD DVD players.
Anyone going on how they're ONLY 1080i, and NOT 1080P, are just making yourself look like a fool not understanding how the whole Video format and HDTV's work.
With all the PS3's out there there SHOULD BE a 5:1, 6:1 in Movies being sold, but there isn't. It's around 2:1. Not a lot of PS3's are actually being used as Blu-Ray movie players. Counting on the PS3 to win the war is and has been a mistake. If Toshiba(Who doesn't own a single Movie Studio, the same as MS unlike SONY) can keep pushing out cheap HD DVD players, which also are great DVD Up Converters, that's a huge Plus on the HD DVD side. There's a lot more HD DVD Stand alone players sold. I hear there's more XBox HD DVD drives SOld then ALL of the Blu-Ray Stand alone players Combined(This is not counting the PS3 of course) True or not, I don't know for sure.
Warner could just jump ship to the HD DVD side. Yes they would take a loss at first without the Blu-Ray sales, but it really doesn't make since to continue releasing movies on 2 different formats. It costs more money, it takes up more space on shelfs at the store. If Warner goes HD DVD ONLY, the War would be over quickly. All that's left is FOX and Disney. Universal and Paramount are the 2 biggest Studio's. With Warner on board who has been releasing movies left and right, the war would be done and over with. Sony's Movie Studio's, SONY, Tri-Star and Columbia would then have to move to HD DVD also. Sony never says they failed, or LOST. The format just kind of fades away. Sony ever say UMD failed? How about SACD? Hell has Sony ever said Betamax failed? It's been so long, I have No idea, but I would guess not.
The whole Profile 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 thing with Blu-Ray is confusing as hell. You buy a Blu-Ray movie and want to use all of the features advertised on the disc. Bring it home and you can't. What works, what doesn't. This is what people want??? What really will happen is Blu-Ray will basically just be a better looking and better sounding format over DVD and that's it. Advanced features? Nope. Why bother with so few players supporting it! It's the whole chicken and the egg. Why worry about 1.1 and 2.0 players when there's no movies to use the features, but why have the features when there's no players or few players to use them???
All HD DVD players from Gen 1 to Gen 3 ALL play all HD DVD's fully. All Advanced feature, something only a Blu-Ray 2.0 player could match but without the movies to take advantage of those features. Quite frankly I can't believe Blu-Ray has been dragging things out this long. Selling suckers 1.0 players that once 1.1 and 2.0 movie versions get released are going to be pissed off that they can't use those feature.
I wish Sony old CEO didn't start this WAR. Instead worked it out and had a single format. A Dual format just can't survive in the long run. Combo players just drag out the war.
I'm sure there's going to be at least a couple more $99 sales. One for sure in a couple weeks.
I've also read some messages saying Blu-Ray movies are CHEAPER. That's just not true. They are the SAME PRICE unless the HD DVD version is a Duel format version with HD DVD on one side and DVD on the other side. Basiclaly getting 2 movies for the price of one. You Can't play the Blu-Ray version on any DVD player you have, but you can the HD DVD/DVD version. Besides who pays full Retail for movies? SUCKERS. Buy from Amazon for under $20 Generally. I also get 10% off on top of whatever the price is also. So $17.95 for my HD DVD's.
TL;DR
Shoot, far larger then I wanted that last message,
Does anybody even take into consideration Blu-ray has outsold HD by a 2-1 margin since about the beginning of this year? HD only has two major studios supporting it and I think Paramount's decision to choose HD just extended the format war even longer. And anyway I think both sides are getting desperate to move them short of lowering the prices excessively. Best Buy's ad last week offered 10(!) free HD discs with the purchase of a player, and something similar on Blu-ray. I'm not buying either format until one becomes a clear winner. What good is it to buy a player if you can't actually buy some of the movies you want because some studios don't support your format of choice? Oh yeah, and lastly remember when DVD came out? It started out as a format war between DVD and DIVX. Bet those people that bought DIVX only were pissed afterward. I'm waiting so both sides can forget seeing any purchases from me until then.
Blu ray all the way!