Virtual Palm OS on your Nokia N-Series tablet -- hoozah!

You read that headline right, now you can run a Palm OS Garnet VM on your Nokia N-series N770, N800, or N810 tablet. Access just released a beta copy of their Garnet Virtual Machine software. Yes, Snappermail, DateBk5, Pocket Tunes, whatever -- all 30,000+ Garnet applications are supported. Free to download now and free when it hits production status at the end of the year. Thanky thanky Access.

Update: TabletBlog has a first-look video walkthrough up after the break. So much Graffiti, so little time.

[Via IntoMobile]

[Taylor @ Nov 13th 2007 3:32AM]

Haha, if Android comes out before Palm's new OS, there's gonna be ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to buy a palm because palm lovers could just do this! Haha.
-Taylor

[Simon @ Nov 13th 2007 5:35AM]

You think Palm's new OS is going to come out? I'm not that optimistic...

[Taylor @ Nov 13th 2007 6:22AM]

My old housemate worked for palm, he has a foleo, he says the new OS is cool, but said little else. It apparently exists, that's all i know. He said that there are investors with enough cash to float palm for another year or two, when they expect to be profitable, so all their failure so far might not be an issue if they keep on life support until something interesting happens... Though really, i hope what's coming is better than the centro or the foleo (which i can say from first hand experience, really was as bad as people said)...
A fun story he told me was an investor with millions of dollars invested in palm literally yelling at a board meeting "What the F**K is this!? This is not innovation!" While holding up a two year old treo and a nearly identical new model... Something i always wished would happen at palm - i was really happy to hear that story.
So maybe, maybe it will come out, but honestly i have NO faith in palm's survival. HTC with android will PWN, really.
-Taylor

[Jon @ Nov 13th 2007 3:34AM]

Thanks to Access, Nokia now has the best PalmOS devices on the market.

[kismet I @ Nov 13th 2007 3:46AM]

Lol

[ryanwalklin @ Nov 13th 2007 4:23AM]

This really needs to be on the iPhone.

[Joe @ Nov 13th 2007 2:00PM]

Why would you want to be productive when you have such a pretty toy to watch youtube on?

[sr @ Nov 16th 2007 2:11AM]

^^^ Best comment ever!

[skhawaja @ Nov 13th 2007 4:25AM]

Is this the definition of Convergence or Will It Blend or

[john @ Nov 13th 2007 4:49AM]

*laugh*

A week ago, I proposed on the internettablettalk board that Nokia should buy Palm to get their legacy application base, giving the Nokia tablets a boost of application ecosystem, and giving the Palm userbase a new platform to build upon.

Not exactly what I proposed, but a similar end result.

[fgpx78 @ Nov 13th 2007 4:54AM]

I wonder, will it play Doom?

[Jon @ Nov 13th 2007 5:03AM]

These 'will it play Doom' meme is getting old.

And yes there are PalmOS ports of Doom, Quake, Heretic and Hexen.

[fgpx78 @ Nov 13th 2007 5:12AM]

Will it blend Hexen then?

[Dan (thoughtfix) @ Nov 13th 2007 5:57AM]

Just did a video and a few pictures (a first hands-on) of this VM on the Nokia N810 Internet Tablet:

http://tabletblog.com/2007/11/access-garnet-for-maemo-first-look.html

[Kozzi @ Nov 13th 2007 6:22AM]

Now it would be cooler if we can rotate the screen :)

[Dan (thoughtfix) @ Nov 13th 2007 6:25AM]

Kozzi: I am trying to gather feedback and discuss it with Garnet. I'll keep tabletblog posted with news.

[BoxOfSnoo @ Nov 13th 2007 11:43AM]

What is really desperately needed is some kind of data exchange. Clipboard sync at least, better yet some shareable virtual VFS memory card. An impermeable black box is a toy at best. Check with Access on that, please.

[mark @ Nov 13th 2007 7:40PM]

Kozzi;

There's a post on Dan's (ThoughtFix) blog that says it can be done:

-----
Eismaus said...

From the FAQ:

Q: How can I change Garnet VM's screen orientation to landscape mode?

A: Garnet VM can be executed either in portrait mode or in landscape mode (full screen).

On the Nokia Internet Tablet
Open Garnet VM Launcher (Main Menu => Extras => Garnet VM).
Open the Settings dialog.
In the Display section, check the Fullscreen option.
Hit the Save button.

The next time that you launch a Garnet OS application it will be displayed in landscape mode. Note that to come back to the Nokia Internet Tablet environment you must press the Back hardware button.
-----

[Fred Fish @ Nov 13th 2007 6:30AM]

the reason i don't use my palm devices anymore is because the OS is junk! now happy with iPod touch! don't get me wrong, i've been a palm fan for years.. but the OS is stuck in the late 90s!

[Ryan Trevisol @ Nov 13th 2007 6:53AM]

Okay, I'm trying to keep up with the Engadget schizophrenia, are we hating Palm or loving Palm right now?

I mean, haven't we dogged Garnet enough lately, and rightfully so?

How does it running on another piece of hardware make it more appealing?

I feel sorry for the N-series tablets whose users load this on them . . .

[derX @ Nov 13th 2007 11:50AM]

Dude, we love Palm, we just feel really bad for the company and it is this that we hate. We want it to do well, as it was an innovator at one place in time (hard to believe, no?) on the PDA phone scene. It's like what an editor said once (Ryan Block, I believe), something to the effect of "We want Palm to do well more than Palm wants itself to do well." And there has never been a change in our attitude there, so I am not getting this schizophrenia to which you're refering.

It is impossible for us to dog Garnet as it hasn't been released. However, we do dog Palm for not hurrying the hell up with it and this is done rightfully so.

It running on another piece of hardware doesn't make it more appealing, it just makes it *thinks of perfect word* real. It's supposed to be released near the end of NEXT year, and, thusfar, all there've been are rumors. This is tangible proof is does, indeed, exist.

I have never used an N-series tablet, but if Garnet and the N-series interface are comparable in the way the Palm OS and S60 are, I don't know why they'd load this either.

[Ryan Trevisol @ Nov 13th 2007 12:10PM]

Okay, so maybe schizophrenia was a bit of an overstatement. I just don't see what the hubbub is about.

I would agree with you, IF this was an unreleased OS we were talking about. But "Garnet OS" is just the same Palm OS 5.4 found on my trusty, T5. Cobalt is OS 6 and has yet to be released.

As far as I can tell, this release of Garnet is the same old thing on new hardware. To me it just seems like the same backwards approach that Palm/Access/whatever has been taking to everything lately. Waste time porting a 6-year-old platform to different hardware.

Cobalt, meantime, appears to have been scrapped/reinvented as ALP, ACCESS Linux Platform. Which, by the way, looks like a cool upgrade to the look and feel of Palm OS.
http://alp.access-company.com/index.html

Anyway, I'll get flamed and hated for this, but Android (or any hardware independent, open, feature-rich mobile OS) ftw.

[derX @ Nov 13th 2007 2:02PM]

Sorry, you're right, I don't know how I got confused with the Garnet, thing.

Anyway, why would you get flamed for upping Android? Dude, everyone's down with the Android.

Android FTW!

[Ryan Trevisol @ Nov 13th 2007 2:05PM]

There were a lot of people on here that called Android DOA. Personally, I believe it's coming, and I'm ready.

[WLS @ Nov 13th 2007 7:21AM]

Well this is the clincher for me. I have been on the fence between a N810 and a (i)Touch waiting for a collection of decent 3rd party apps to come along. Now I can bring over all my palm apps that I really wanted to have!!! Nokia shoots and scores! Depends on whther this is the real deal but it sounds like what I need.

[namtastic @ Nov 13th 2007 11:02AM]

Yeah, this is great for those on the fence, but just remember this is essentially Boot Camp for Nokia ITs. You can run Palm apps, but you're running them in a sandbox, and they won't play with anything else.

But -- if you've got that one app that you simply can't just throw away, this is a great solution to get you the hell off a Palm OS 5 device. Really, you'll love everything the tablets do outside that virtual machine. :)

[Serhei @ Nov 13th 2007 9:04AM]

I'm getting the feeling that this is a gigantic "fuck you" to Palm in response to Palm not having licensed Access' Linux OS, choosing to build their own.

[wireless.nemo @ Nov 13th 2007 9:21AM]

and it will probably run faster than my treo does :(

[Jon Acheson @ Nov 13th 2007 9:23AM]

I wonder how hard it is to get this to sync with your desktop, or if it will sync at all.

It would have to in order to be useful, so I hope Access has that covered.

Note: I don't care so much if it syncs with Palm's Desktop application, a similar third party app that is usable would be fine, if not even better.

[John Stracke @ Nov 13th 2007 11:12AM]

It does have sync. It uses Network HotSync, which exists in Palm Desktop for Windows, and also, apparently, in pilot-link for Linux and BSD (and, apparently, Mac). I say "apparently" because this is based on a quick Googling; I haven't tried it.

[ToniCipriani @ Nov 13th 2007 10:04AM]

Thanks, Nokia, Thanks Access. I finally found my replacement for my crashing TX.

[Ipaq3115 @ Nov 13th 2007 10:23AM]

Whats wrong with the Linux OS thats already on there???

Just go with linux, PocketPC if you have to and never palm, they just don't do much...

[macegr @ Nov 13th 2007 10:41AM]

Because there aren't many polished applications for Linux targeted at low-resolution, portable devices. Also, the Linux ARM development toolchain for the Nokia tablets is really convoluted to set up and use; I've tried a few times and never quite got it right. There are some how-tos online, but they are all aimed at older versions and things change a lot between versions. Nokia Internet Tablet developers have pretty much exclusively shifted to programming things in python, which might be a good thing if the devices had any CPU power to spare. These are issues that have existed since the N770 was launched years ago, and there are literally one or two internal Nokia developers exposed to the Linux community...they've been more than busy enough simply trying to fix bugs, let alone release coherent tools and documentation. I like the device a lot...I use mine all the time...but I'd hoped that getting into development on a Linux device would have been a little more straightforward. Maybe someone will figure things out for the newer OSes and release some more VMware dev images, the old ones were good.

[Bob S. @ Nov 13th 2007 10:40AM]

Oh, thank you. Finally the Nokia tablet may be relevant and even useful.

Ipaq3115, can I assume you've never *used* a Nokia tablet? They have so much potential and yet they're so awful. This past weekend, I tried to load an app someone had written, a remote controller for my wifi music player. After a day and a half and much cursing and Googling, I discovered that the tablet's app installer has a hidden developer mode triggered by an easter egg (which is a Matrix injoke -- we're getting into serious loserland here), and from that hidden developer mode, I could install the dependencies the controller app expected. That's just braindead, braindead, braindead... on many levels. And it's surprisingly common, even for first- and second-party apps that are already in the app installer.

[kevin @ Nov 13th 2007 11:53AM]

Maybe now someone can test out if they can run Slingmedia player on this virtual Palm to watch some TV?

[Colin @ Nov 13th 2007 2:35PM]

That was the same thing I thought of as soon as I read about this. I installed the virtual Palm OS, as well as the Slingplayer software on my Nokia 770, and I can't get it to work. It at the very least will recognize my Slingbox, but when in audio only mode, there is no audio, and when set to normal (including video) it crashes every time.

[Andrew Baker (Dotelpenguin) @ Nov 13th 2007 11:59AM]

I've been running CO-pilot on my N770 for about a year already. SLOW, but works perfect. I'm going to look into this one tho. See if there are some speed benefits to it.

[Jeff @ Nov 13th 2007 12:00PM]

If anyone installs this on an n800/n810 I would be very curious to know if the palmOS version of the slinplayer client would work on it.

[Andrew Baker (Dotelpenguin) @ Nov 13th 2007 12:18PM]

Update, Just installed it. It's 100 times faster the co-pilot. Very impressive. The Grafitii is flawless.

[namtastic @ Nov 13th 2007 12:27PM]

Re: how speedy it is -- the next "Palm OS" that ACCESS has been building is supposed to have full Garnet compatibility, so I would imagine that this project is simply an extension of that Linux emulator work that will eventually appear on the ACCESS Linux Platform. (OK, I did kind of snicker at that "eventually appear" part.)

[Sean Cooper @ Nov 13th 2007 12:29PM]

say goodbye to Palm. This coupled with Android and the iphone should be the final nails need for a stubborn company unwilling to innovate until it was too late. This why Apple never split it's software from it's hardware, the software makes the hardware special, otherwise any off the box computer can be mac, as you can kinda see with leopard, but macs are still special. Stuff like this show how vulnerable palm is. And Android will launch before the new Palm OS comes out and Rim will probably have pretty products out too. Oh and don't forget about Apple. Yes my friends, Palms Days are numbers, the Pioneers of the PDA, are on the death bed on life support.

[Andrew Baker (Dotelpenguin) @ Nov 13th 2007 12:43PM]

Actually Apple was the Pioneer of the PDA, they came out with the newton. It had problems but was pretty cool. I owned 3 of them. Then apple dropped it like a radioactive lobster. Apple actually is the one that coined the term PDA. Palm then picked up where apple left off. I still prefer palm OS over Windows anyday. It is time for them to make changes. I've been an avid linux user for many years. Jumped on the Sharp Zaurus when it was introduced. Tho the software was there, the hardware was not. Back to palm. I like having zero load times on all my applications. That and never crashing. I now use a Nokia 770 and Treo 700P. Great combo. Would love a fully 100% linux open source smart phone tho.

[derX @ Nov 13th 2007 2:12PM]

"Apple dropped it like a radioactive lobster."

xDDDDDDDD

Dude, you rock in my book.

---------
Back to phones. You know, I am not going to count Palm out, yet. Yes, the release of Android can definitely kill Palm, but it could also help it a lot. Like I've said before, the software has already been made, now, all they have to do is design a good-looking phone and they could definitely be back in the game.


Although, given their stubborness, yes, the death of Palm is very likely.

[ToniCipriani @ Nov 13th 2007 5:41PM]

Does anyone know if it's Graffiti 1 or 2?

[Sean @ Nov 13th 2007 10:00PM]

will it sling is the million dollar question

[wackojacko @ Nov 14th 2007 4:47AM]

definitely need Slingplayer! Sling didnt bother with the Nokia tablet community...so, hope this works!

[Shane @ Nov 14th 2007 3:22PM]

You know, I'd love there to be an emulator environment for the Psion Series 5mx... surely *that* is not too much to ask for??

:-)

[Zap @ Nov 14th 2007 3:48PM]

I don't get it...Palm's OS is its biggest flaw...why would you want to run it on Nokia's tablets....Palm OS is the thing holding it back. Their hardware is decent..a bit thick, lacks of Wi-Fi(I think due to their OS not being able to handle it for Palm OS Treos), great keyboards, nice screens....

[TA-t3 @ Nov 15th 2007 9:00AM]

PalmOS can handle wi-fi. I used an SDIO wi-fi card with my Tungsten T3. The TX has built-in wi-fi, as did a much earlier model. The single reason the Treos don't have wi-fi is because the US carriers force Palm to leave out wi-fi: They don't want wi-fi and VoIP to compete with their gold-egg goose. Only a player with as much muscle as Apple managed to (after lots of negotiatons) get one carrier to accept wi-fi. For a price..
And I happen to like PalmOS as far as the UI is concerned. I use the Nokia N800 all the time these days, but I have to do at least four times as many taps with the stylus to get the same things done, compared to PalmOS..

[TA-t3 @ Nov 15th 2007 8:52AM]

@ToniCipriano:
The Garnet VM uses Graffiti 1.