Zune people: we hear you, expect more coverage soon
By Ryan Block 
posted November 14th 2007 4:19PM
posted November 14th 2007 4:19PM
So yesterday I posted a look at the new Zune device and software, which caused quite a stir with the (as I suspected it might). Ok, I'm sugarcoating it. Some went ballistic over my criticisms of the new products -- and took it out on me, often personally.There are lots of things I'd like to remind these people of. Like, besides the fact that it's just a product, I (and Engadget) have been a vocal advocate of Microsoft's entry into the space since before the Zune was ever announced. We led the charge in press coverage of the Zune last (and for a while the Apple fans even called us Zune fanboys). Nothing's changed though, we're critical of all this stuff, and whether some people believe it, we don't easily let Apple off the hook either (read our iPhone review and iPod touch review if you want to dig in). If we didn't care about -- or hated -- the new Zune we wouldn't waste our time telling Microsoft how to get it right, we'd just ignore the thing and you wouldn't see any risky, critical editorial. (Believe it or not, PR agencies by far prefer negative reviews than having their product ignored.)
The thing is, we have high expectations of companies like Microsoft because we know that they can deliver. And you have high expectations for us for the same reason. We get that, so we'll be posting further, deeper Zune coverage this week.
Just two things you need to know: first, don't expect our thesis to change. We're disappointed by the Zune, but only because we were hoping that MSFT would blow it out this time and really raise their game like they did with the Xbox 360. We definitely see the improvements -- and that's important -- but we'd be lying to you if we didn't think there was a lot that could be better.
Second, abusive comments are why I closed yesterday's Zune thread; it's no secret we moderate comments, and even shut them off completely when things get out of control. Cool down, don't take this stuff personally, be reasonable, lay off the personal / ad hominem attacks and Apple-bias stuff, and we can all have a fun, productive conversation about the gadgets we love (or at least want to make better).
-Ryan
I wouldn't really call a huge longtime marketing blitz and (yes im about to say it) people being sheep or "keeping up with the joneses" an "effective high-end Consumer Electronics manufacturer/designer."
About the touch - Yea its a very sexy device and the interface is pretty awesome...and the extras like the web browser and youtube... but end the end I like buttons. I may be one of the only people on earth thinking this, but I do not think its a good idea to totally rely on a touchscreen for all input. Buttons work the best... try to use the ipod touch in your pocket(without buying extra accessories)...
Also, I think Jeff Lewis hit the nail on the head about this whole situation..
Insulting people as 'sheep' or insinuating they are shallow (keeping up with the joneses) is just another ruse to ignore sales. What makes you think you're so specifically more intelligent when it comes to deciding on what product works best for any individual. When people plunk down their hard-earned money, they generally try to make informed decisions that work for them.
The fact that Apple dominates a category in terms of sales, certainly counts for something.... Sales is the category every other competitor judges themselves and Apple upon in terms of being "an effective Consumer Electronics Manfacturer/Designer". It doesn't mean they have the best design, or the best integrated web store, or the highest quality sound... it just means that most people find Apple's combination of feature sets the best. Sales are black and white. Pure Facts. No Denial. But if they stop innovating, or if some other company comes up with a better combination of features, they won't hold the sales lead... The market determines which company is effective, not the fanboys.
Apparently You do not work in retail
"When people plunk down their hard-earned money, they generally try to make informed decisions that work for them." - As in the words of lex luthor WRONG!!!!
From my experiences in selling people Consumer electronics, most people come into my store clueless and I spend a great deal of time showing them features of a lot of electronics. A good portion of those people still do not listen to me or my fellow knowledgeable co-wokers because their buddy told them to get this item or they want to get the item that one ups what their buddy has...
But hey what do I know....maybe its just like this in my corner of the world...
So when you said raise the bar w/ the Xbox 360...you were talking about the defective rate in the video game industry...right? I don't care what game support they get, even saying that the system is an achievement is horrible.
Add to the fact that MS hasn't improved on the hardware is pathetic.
Goodgames? Yes. Good hardware? No chance in hell.
Yes, it may not be the best hardware but at least Microsoft is taking care of its customers and repairing/replacing the consoles for free. The 360 IS an achievement because it's a success, pure and simple.
Yes, it may not be the best hardware but at least Microsoft is taking care of its customers and repairing/replacing the consoles for free. The 360 IS an achievement because it's a success, pure and simple.
Don't be a tool... I even mention XBOX 360 needs more stability. But like you said... Great Games. XBOX360 is the standard by which every other next gen. console is measured right now.... because of Games available, Online Play and LIVE downloading and streaming.... If/When Sony gets their act back, they may become the standard bearer again... and as an aside, the Wii has set a standard in a whole new market - family/casual gamers... but in terms of HardCore gamers, the XBOX 360 has the lead right now - crappy hardware and all. It's like the whole iPod thing... it may not be the best design, or the best sound quality, or the best Music Store... but the Market (as measured by sales) has determined that the iPod has the best feature sets available today.... that's why they are the leader.... you don't have to best at everything (it would be great!!), just the best overall.
> and we can all have a fun, productive conversation about the gadgets we love (or at least want to make better).
Not bloody likely, judging by the comments here.
Any Apple or Microsoft related thread here just degenerates into two bunches of morons calling each other fanboys. THAT is the problem with Engadget at the moment.
End anonymous comments; make people sign up for a proper account, with corporate email address and full name - that generally gets people behaving a little better.
I suppose the new cycle is rather slow right now, so Zune coverage would fill the gap........until Jan 08 when MacWorld happens ;-)
It's funny, the same arguments keep going round and round.
If this product had come out at the same time as the 5.5G iPod, it would have been a super competitor. Since it's coming out now, it's....wait, what has Apple really improved upon since the 5.5G iPod?
What I would like to see is a comparison chart, comparing the iPc & iPn, Zune 80 and 4/8, and any other comparable PMPs.
(Mostly)Just the specs.
i think ebay is fukcing with people. i posted a zune 80gb on there about 6 hrs ago and it is still not showing up in the search. their CSR said auctions take 6-10 hrs to appear. since when! this is bulshiet. new zune 80gb for sale willing to ship globally.haha
ryan's whole point was for us to get a better player next year from microsoft, or even soon. i mean, if you like zune that much and if you can settle on what they offer then get yourself one, no problem! and ahm... i am getting myself a zune 2 too! my ipod 5th generation is just not pretty anymore.
I just want to know one thing Ryan..... Will it blend? :)
Does it play doom?
Owned im prolly getting banned for that comment
Fair enough, I just want this player to come to the UK!
I thought your Zune review was one of the most biased reviews I have ever read. Anywhere. You completely ignored most of the exciting new Zune 2.0 features and no matter how many times you say you're not biased, it's obvious that you are.
Is this Andrew Ryan!! From Bioshock, shyt!!!
Would you kindly go back and touch ur iPod touch..
Jus kidding, Negative reviews are the reason y the industry goes forward and evolves.. Btw anyone would love an attractive lady than a less attractive lady..
Get the picture --> iPod touch 80 GB amalgam Vs. Teh Zune...
Engadget peeps, please, stop approaching every review of a media player as if it's an attempt to "kill" the iPod. There's room in the market for different devices as much as there is a market for different kinds of vehicles.
In the end the competition is great for all of us. If you like you're iPod, you should be hoping that every offering from MS (and everyone else) is a success.
Why?
Quite simply, Apple along with Archos, Creative, Cowon and all the other manufacturers will follow with more features that they wouldn't bother with if there wasn't pressure from a competitor. Not to mention lower prices.
Ryan, if you want to moderate this site and keep it civil, you can start by adding a "no fanboy flamebait" clause to your FAQ and delete those posts that offer nothing more than another in a long line of Apple/MS insults.
Btw i'd pick up this player anyday of te week over the anaemic iPod 80GB.. Just give it FM recording, wireless headphones and MSFT would certainly erase the likes of Jobses from this Planet..
Btw a certain fruit company could also add higher capacity flash storage, add haptics and tactile feedback on a certain touchable product and drop the price of the current models and kill a certain product that is typo of Tune
A Hero has to rise!
2007: The Reality
2008: The Victor
Is there somewhere I can find a comparison between the Zune and the iPod in terms of sound--frequency response, signal-to-noise ratio, etc.?
Thanks,
Jeff
If reviews are meant to make a product better. Than they clearly don't work with Apple. How many generations in are we and still the product looks like shyt a week after you buy it. Unless you spend more money to cover it up. It scratches easier than anything out there. And if they make it like this intentionaly(which they do) than that shows what a shitty company Apple and Mr. Jobs is.
Well, as Carbo mentioned iPod is a pain in the ass. I mean it would scratch even if Paris Hilton used it, but with the new line of Zunes tht aint gonna happen, reason -> cause MSFT put their brains into work and designed something which is a hell lot better than a rebadged Gigabeat. Btw negative reviews ARE supposed to make an impact, but in the land of Jobs that simply doesnt work. Reason?
'Cause the amount of apple fanboys roaming around tout that the Shiny iPod finish is more shinier than the Oily face of an unkempt teenager.. and there are people out there enamoured by the words "iPod" and look upon it as a fashion accessory and not as a typical PMP/MP3 player.
And as Jeff mentioned iPod has never had a better sound quality compared to the most of other MP3/PMPs.. I mean its sound quality is worse than the Zen Vision:M(tested a 2nd gen nano, 5.5G iPod 30GB, 80GB, 60GB Zen Vision:M) as i had and tested them with the same pair of shure earphones. iPod doesnt deliver the punch in bass, and a hell lot of subtle effects were missing.. So as far as the audio quality goes u can prefer the new Zunes, but be cautioned it DOESNOT contain a customised or even a preset equalizer removed from the previous version...
Btw i was jus kidding around with the hero, victor and stuff.. Both the companies have tremendous room to improve, and as BIG E small e implied "Competition is what keeps the industry evolving.."
For example: Just check out the no. of phones released with a touchscreen after the iPhone came out!!
Rants of an overzealous technologist..
Ameen
C'Mon the Zune and everything about it (Media store, etc) is a catastrophic failure. It's simply Microsoft throwing another billion dollars at a market just to attempt to obfuscate it. They have no idea what they're doing in this space and they have no expertise or vision. Their core competency is in copying, mass marketing and then extinguishing competition.
Problem here is the mass market realizes that Microsoft doesn't know squat about Music/Media/Culture. Fan boys should flock to the Zune. You deserve it...no really! You absolutely should perpetuate this company's everquest to ruin marketplaces it knows little or nothing about...because it's oh so good for everyone. Which, obviously, is what the essence of music is all about, right? Copy something good just well enough that it's kinda/sorta good...then blast it out to the Britney, Insync, Federline, Backstreet Tool loving masses. Because, you know, those people have the best taste..
... And those are the ones that buy Ipods
I know that something I was disappointed with in that article was that there was no true review of the features that the Zune actually had or where it lacked. Honestly, the article came off more as a comparative glance at how many mp3 players were on the market rather than just what the newer Zune could do. Also, for those of us who hadn't used the old Zune, what we did get in the article for the new Zune was useless. I have to say, it seemed almost like the article came off as a 'why bother' rather than a 'okay, here's the dish'. I love Engadget, but I honestly felt like iPhone and iPod and iPodTouch reviews got MUCH more in depth than this article for the Zune. It led me to go to CNet and other sites to get the review/info that I wanted.
As a Zune owner I think Engadget's coverage has been ok. Yeah, the Zune isn't a best-of-breed product, and has its weaknesses. It's a flawed device, still good, but not great, and not many people own one relative to an iPod. I think the Creative Zen Vision is a better player really, but again, small segment of the market.
I've owned many other MP3 players and after owning Samsungs with more features than you can shake a stick at I think MS didn't quite get the Zune right, especially the wireless. I'm also not at all impressed with the Zune PC software, even the new less-WMP version. Not that I like iTunes either.
The device itself has good sound quality and a good interface, but at the end of the day, it's an underwhelming experience not that many people own. Really, the Zune gets more coverage than it deserves purely from the MS brand name.
And I use mine almost every day, so I don't really think I'm trolling or out of line here...
i'm wondering about something
is the reason microsoft won't implement a zune marketplace on the zune because they don't want to take away from the "social"?
i mean, one of the main features of the zune is to share songs, but with the ability to buy the first song that comes to your mind wherever you are, the need for sharing songs lessens
just a theory
Why would someone personally attack a person over the review of a product? I have never understood that. It's just a product that plays audio and video files; nothing else. It doesn't cook food, make the bed, vacuum the floor, balance the check book, pay the bills, solve environmental problems, fight wars, lead countries; all it does is play audio and video files.
Since that is all it does, why do some people verbally assault somebody who is just giving their own opinion?
I agree nothing special other than the bigger screen which is nothing to be excited about. Imma wait 'til Zune looks better, has a much bigger screen, and has at least two kick ass things that kick apple's ass. I'm not saying i hate them, but my first generation nano was only cool cuz it was small haha and it had some problems that shouldnt have happened...but happened frequently and not only to me. Oh and the nanos screen wasn't very scratch resistant ...and yes I used a cover on it but didn't do much good.