Tase me, baby: Taser responds to the UN, says tasers aren't torture
By Nilay Patel 
posted November 29th 2007 8:19AM
posted November 29th 2007 8:19AM
Looks like the Taser parties are back on -- Taser issued a terse rebuttal to the UN today, finding fault with its conclusion that being hit with a taser is equivalent to torture. Saying that the committee is "out of touch with the reality that confronts law enforcement officers every day worldwide," Taser also noted that the criteria used to define torture, "extreme pain," also rules out other common police implements like pepper spray and batons. Like some other reports we've seen, Taser says that since their products don't actually electrocute people, the main danger involved in being struck with a taser is an "unassisted fall," which seems to us like pretty much the only kind of fall there is -- but we're not getting in the middle of this one. Looks like this is going to be a long fight -- everybody got their popcorn?
Dimplemonkey
60/300 = 1/5 = Far more than "a tiny fraction" - DUH!
the number of police killings in the US is far far more than 5 times the number in the UK.
Perhaps I should have expressly stated "per capita"
"the main danger involved in being struck with a taser is an "unassisted fall,"
I would take that over being tackled.
Tasers are for one thing... That mentally disturbed guy who has a knife and the cops don't want to kill him.
They are an invaluable tool in these types of standoff situations.
10 years ago, a mentally ill lady went into a shopping center, near where I live, wielding a knife and threatening to hurt herself and others. Police responded and tried to talk to her but they ended up having to kill her. Today, the use of a taser would give her a chance to live.
Unfortunately, they are being used as compliance devices. "Get on the ground or I will Tase you (bro)" and consequently lazy, scared, or pissed off cops will use them unnecessarily.
The latest incident in Utah is a great example of the way a taser can be misused. The cop was pissed off that he was being hassled by a young punk and instead of being a professional, he escalated the situation and used the taser.
Pepper sprays and billy clubs only smart a little when used by kinder and gentler police. Let them be in charge of the tasers.
Any device (taser) that uses the same technology of devices that are used to control livestock, such as cattle (cattle prod), are acceptable in my book.
Next up - whipping, roping, and branding!!!
"Taser says that since their products don't actually electrocute people, the main danger involved in being struck with a taser is an "unassisted fall," which seems to us like pretty much the only kind of fall there is"
Clearly, Engadget havent heard of Epic Fall
tasers are fun...dont tase me bro!!!!
I think we can all agree that when they are used properly, in other words to apply force that is not lethal in a situation where an officer or other security agent would typically be authorized and use lethal force, they are a good alternative. When they are used just because an officer doesn't want to attemp to physically restrain someone there is a problem... and thank you FSU or where ever Kerry was for 'Don't Tase Me Bro!' I think we should all agree he had that coming.
Thank you so much. That's exactly how I feel about it. Like 100% exact.
A great podcast www.2guys1brain.com is a couple of jailers that often discuss the use of the taser in the workplace. The only people get tased are the new inmates that have never seen one in action. All the current inmates that have seen one in use get a verbal warning and see the laser-sight and freeze in their tracks. http://2guys1brain.com/audio.php
This really has to stop. The Taser is a scapegoat, and the media is managing to do this completely successfully, clouding many layers of stupidity that do not deserve to exist, and which have no reason I can see to be concealed. I smell a pointless conspiracy of buearocratic thinking.
I don't know how hard this is to see, but it was clearly not the Taser that killed Robert Dziekanski, but the incompetent idiots dogpiling on him while he was subdued. You cannot sit on a person's neck while he is in that state! (What the hell purpose would that have anyway?! Scare him more? Scare him into not being scared?)
Those officers used a taser where they previously would have firmly confronted and handcuffed him, likely with very little, if any, struggle. He was reasonably cooperative until they drew the frighteningly gun-shaped weapon. To somebody in a situation such as Dziekanski's, that would be posed as an imminent threat, and it is completely understandable that he would panic. (Even moreso after being "shot").
The only people at fault here are the massive organizations who purchase Tasers, do not know how to use them in the first place, do not attempt to learn how to use them and hand them out like candy to officers in desperate need of very long vacations.
yep.
i suppose that most people would rather have a gun shot to the chest?
The taser is not a substitute for a gun. If an officer really believes a gun is needed and he has both a gun and a taser on him, he's going to use the gun.
A taser used in correct circumstances is a valid police tool. There should be no argument there.
If an officer is angry at someone and chooses to use pepper spray, a baton, or the taser because they think they can get away with it and inflict a bit of pain, that is abuse and may rise to the label "torture".
Do tasers leave marks like pepper spray or a baton? If someone reluctantly cooperates with an officer and the officer beats them up with a baton I would imagine the legal case of abuse-of-power would be easier to prove than if they used a taser. If that's true, then there is a higher mental barrier for an officer to use pepper spray or a baton than use a taser to inflict pain and frighten someone that has angered them.
Tasers suck... the police should just use bigger bullets to rid us of these criminals permanently.
Tasers < Tesla Coils
The true problem arising from tasers is that they are being used to immobilize just about anybody a police officer deems as should be immobilized.
That Polish man at the Canadian airport probably had his heart muscles immobilized too.
TASERS SHOULD ONLY BE USED IN LIFE THREATENING SITUATIONS AND NOT FOR CONVENIENCE.
you all seem to be missing the point, at least when it comes to cops. Guns have consequences. If miss used, said cop goes to jail. Even if the shooting was justified, there is always a review of the shooting. Tazers lower the threshold because they are viewed as "safe" alternatives in moderate stress scenarios. When that rare situation comes up, where the "bad guy" had an under lying heart condition, the result is the same as a gun. While the Utah driver was a jerk, and I would have Tazered him myself, there was no reason to actually use the Tazer. One of many reasons I am not a cop.
I'd like an estimate of how many criminals there would be if we took all the money spent on tasers, guns, and other ways to 'control' the populace, including police officer salaries and instead started considering it public wealth. Whether tasers are torture or not doesn't really concern me. What concerns me is that almost none of the money this country spends on law enforcement is being spent in the best possible way. I'd imagine just the DEA's funding would be enough to pay the drug dealers in this country a decent wage that would keep them from being drug dealers. The government was never meant to control so large a percentage of its people.
Tasers rule. All I can say is:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr9V1Cy-aqI
Best outright tasing of all time.
Pepper spray doesn't cause pain-- it causes discomfort up the wazoo. I guess you could say it stings, but it's not the same as being tased over and over.
Batons do cause pain, and as such should be used only when force is required. Most cops know this.
The problem with Tasers is that cops aren't always trained properly in the use of them, and are often of the mind that they can use them liberally because they're "non-fatal." It's this liberal usage that makes the Taser step from "non-lethal means of apprehension" to torture.
Tase me once, shame on me. Tase me twice (or more) shame on you.
I guess according to "Taser" using a cattle prod on a human would be OK too. This smacks of nazi style treatment of people practiced in the the late 30's & 40's. What's next?
I believe the Taser referred to (the x34?) has a camera that records whatever is shot, as well as leaving a cloud of confetti with the Tasers serial number. So there is actually a lot more evidence of a Tasering than a gunshot.
OTOH, I have seen a cop threaten to Taser a man who was having a diabetic seizure. Luckily, the rest of the bystanders and the paramedics turned on the asshole cop, and he didn't follow through.
Tasers don't tase people, cops do. So address the training of the cops. BTW, for the poster above, many police departments require an officer be tased before being certified to carry one.
The tasers should be colored white so they stand out against the black perpitrator
So now CNN reports that an Ohio officer tasered a pregnant woman in the neck...
Put aside whether the taser itself is a torture device or not.
The f'ing facts are that some officers are clearly not mentally competent to wield these devices responsibly.
In order to avoid the GREAT risk that some will abuse these devices, we need to recall ALL the tasers from ALL officers.
It's that simple.
You are 12 years old, you can't buy an alcoholic drink.
You are a cop who is supposed to serve and protect? No taser for you.
You can't train these retards so no need to bother.
If you get a boo boo in trying to subdue someone with your hands, get over it Sally, be a man, suck it up.
my 2 cents.
Well, for what it's worth in the Utah case it was a speed trap, so the driver was probably just totally confused why he was getting pulled over.
That said, when pulled over I usually behave. Or at least keep my hands far away from my pockets, lol.
The problem is that there do not seem to be any defined rules of engagement when it comes to using tasers. Looking at most UN and even Marine ROE's, the person must pose an imminent threat before Active response can be initiated. Nowadays it seems that whenever a cop doesn't understand what you are saying or does agree with what you are saying he has the right to shoot you with a taser. Moreover, rent-a-cops who graduate from fake cop schools should never be allowed to use tasers as the lack of education coupled with power trip issues could never lead to anything positive.
Of course Tasers are not torture. They are made by a US corporation and the US has its very own definition of torture. It's not something any American would do, especially if employed by the government.
What I find "funny" about the post is that is states it does not "actually" electrocute people. If the person died from the taser, then by definition they were electrocuted.
I personally would rather be "tortured" by a taser any day then hit with those batons or even tackled and hit to the ground by the police. Tasers don't scare me me. I was with hit with more voltage by a taser before, and although I almost lost bowel control, I found it almost as funny as my mother..... who supplied the voltage.
I think that since it is stated by the company, and perceived by many to be non-lethal, law enforcement agencies are using it a bit too liberally.
The real underlying question here that is causing these arguments is whether or not tasers are causing death. A lot more research has to be done to determine that, but it may be moot either way.
Even if they are causing death in 1% of 1% of the people tasered every day I would find that a preferable solution to a handgun which I would imagine has a much higher fatality rate.
So although it may not be a 100% non-lethal solution for law enforcement, it certainly is far better than anything else at the moment.
Hmm, I am breaking the law and resisting arrest. Not only resisting arrest but causing a threat to officers arresting me. Please, don't torture me with a taser...I want to be shot! That 45 will do just fine...
As far as the UN being out of touch with reality...who knew!?
Well at least you put 'ignorant' in your name, truth in advertising.
Don't be so silly everyone. The U.S. government defines torture as anything that causes organ failure. And considering the U.S. government is right...about everything, there is really no need for any discussion at all. It's actually a funny story. When outlawing torture in the middle east came around after Abu-Grahb or however you spell it, congress passed something trying to get rid of any torture at all. Bush was all for it. OH WAIT, except there was a signing statement on the side that said, of course I'm translating into comprehendable english, yeah sure. but I'm not actually going to follow the law. Ask Cheney and his absolutely obnoxious lawyer. or just watch frontline.
I think it's pretty easy to not die from a Taser:
Just don't get into a situation where the cop has to even consider tasing you and you'll be fine.
Yeah, getting tazed is torture, but shooting someone is just fine and dandy...
It's simple, taser are torture when in the hands of sadistic authoritarian figures and used to inflict pain, so yeah if cops have them they are torture.