We're not sure this is still relevant -- the patent was filed in May of 2006 -- but the USPTO has just published a patent application from
Apple detailing a number of different 8cm to 12cm optical disk adapters. The application, credited to Tony Fadell, chief of the iPod division, says that since most software doesn't take up all of the available storage on a disk, it would be cheaper and simpler to use the 8cm disks when appropriate -- but that having to ship a standard adapter for slot-loading drives reduce any costs, because they're the same size as 12cm disks. The solution is to make the adapters smaller when they're not in use, and the filing goes on to detail several different folding and multi-part takes on the idea. Considering that such an adapter would make things slightly more complicated for the vast majority of Apple's all-slot-loading installed base, we can't see these ever actually shipping, but it's still an interesting idea.
posted Nov 30th 2007 10:56PM
There's no *patent* here, just a publication of a patent application/filing. Apple hasn't *patented* these adaptors nor did Apple file a *patent*.
Just one more delicate piece of hardware that isn't very necessary. Kinda like installing custom exhaust pipes in a Minivan.
Next time I'm bored I'll consider patenting something.
This is necessary.
My macbook's slut loading drive won't accept mini-disc... which is odd because my Wii does. When I put it in, it got kind of stuck, so I did some improv origami and got it out.
DAMMIT! I meant SLOT loading drive.
damn, my powerbook doesn't have a slut loading drive
time to upgrade
slut loading drive, mini-disk...you know what I think of when you made that mistake?
It is all explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpokomon
Dudley: Guess I'll have to research some alternative specs!
Mac: Searching alternative sex...
It's probably because the Wii doesn't have a hard drive.
now you totally ruined it dude...
exactly, the adapter is useless if you got a proper drive design - which apple doesn't have??
So Apple's trying to create an ingenious solution to a problem that should have never existed in the first place?
hey mushrooshi
How did you get the mini disc out, mine is stuck??
Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure my Wii takes both size discs - without the need for an adapter. I think it would be easier to simply start manufacturing drives that can utilize both sizes. Maybe thats why we have not heard anything about this until now.
Perhaps Apple should take lessons from Nintendo's Wii about building things like DVD drives that accept varied size media, graphics processors, UI, sound, and the number of buttons to have on pointing devices.
"number of buttons to have on pointing devices"? That's a little much considering the architecture of a Wiimote compared to a trackpad?
Are you trying to be funny or are you just ignorant of the fact that Macs can use any USB mouse you throw at it? It's not exactly news either.
I think his comment about about "number of buttons to have on pointing devices" is refering to the one-button mouse Mac's have. I havnt seen one for a while, so im not sure if thats still the case.
Real problem with this idea is that normal sized media is actually cheaper that the mini versions. It all comes back to the economics of scale (i.e. selling a larger number of products so that the price per unit is lower) versus the economics of producing something at a smaller scale. Sure you might save a few cents per unit in material costs making smaller discs, but in the long run the larger ones are cheaper because they are more common.
There are many video cams that only take the Mini DVD's. This is to make the cams smaller in size.
There are also some still cams that take Mini CD-R and DVD-R...
I hate a stack of mini discs because they look cool...
Dammit, have*, even tried to stop the browser when I noticed it but I wasn't fast enough. Story of my life.
[quote]It all comes back to the economics of scale (i.e. selling a larger number of products so that the price per unit is lower) versus the economics of producing something at a smaller scale[/quote]
This partly explains why all Japanese singles since 1999 come as 12-cm rather than 8-cm discs (well, a few 1999 issues were still released as 8-cm, but they were surely the last of their kind).
No, you're missing the point. Apple is evidently coming out with some sort of UMPC (as has been speculated), in which a standard optical drive just won't fit. So they need this thingy to facilitate ownership of mini disks in general.
I have a stack of these adapters that came with many CD singles in the 80s (as most CD players didn't have the 8cm bay for the smaller discs). Never tried them in slot-loaders...hmmmm...
I was about to say the same and can confirm apple did not invent this idea. Many of the older ones from the early 90's/ did work in slot loading players. Here is one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-CD-Adapter_W0QQitemZ180187245181QQihZ008QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
They're patenting the idea of a folding one to save shipping, not the idea of an adapter in general.
If only a company would develop and implement a drive that could accept both mini-discs (like GameCube sized discs) and regular sized discs (like Wii discs)...if only...
I do hope those Apple slot loaders don't scratch my adapter. That would be horrible.
This has been around in Japan for more than a decade, the first 8cm discs that came out as singles were this size. Most CD player disc trays at the time did not have the indentation for the smaller discs so this attachment for the discs were quite common. You could walk into your local Seven-Eleven/Lawson/Minimart in Japan and buy one of these things.
It's to throw off Microsoft. Microsoft will include this mini disc feature in their next Zune update to beat Apple to the punch. When they do that, Apple will be laughing its ass off.
Ah, a two-edged sword. Perhaps Xerox parc multi touch research could return the favor :)
8cm CDs were wildly popular in Japan, so there are plenty of slot-load mechs out there that take em. One of my cars does. And IIRC old-school slotload iMac CDROMs did. Assuming current Macs don't, Apple could've just have easily spec'd drives that could, since they obviously exist.
Apple's lineup isn't entirely slot loading. My Mac Pro has a conventional tray-type drive. It's always possible these adaptors are for the big boy in the lineup.
If you take a closer look at your tray, you'll notice the slight impression at the center, measuring exactly 8cm in diameter. It's been standard in tray drives since 1989, making adapters unnecessary.
The PS3 accepts 8cm & 12cm discs
Yes the Wii can accept both sizes of discs, and future slot loading drives should adapt the same mechanics.
But what about the drives that are in computers older than the Wii? Do you want a magical fairy upgrade that will make them accept smaller discs? Ya I do too, but it won't happen, so what we have here is an adapter.
Yes the adapter is not a new idea and has been around for nearly 20 years, everyone older than 16 should know they are not new.
What seems to be new is the idea of collapsible adapter that you can either fold or piece together.
The article discusses how although putting the smaller discs in packaging would be more practice, that fact they have to put standard size adapters in nulls out that fact. If you have a collapsible adapter you can reap the benefits of the smaller discs while still providing compatibility for older slot loading drives that do not support the smaller discs.
I've seen dvd drive destroy DVDs and CDs... What warranty do i have that the adapter wont fuck the disc balancing? Or the locks break due to the centrifugal forces?
Although I don't own 8-cm Japanese singles, I still prefer optical drives made the traditional opening/closing-tray way. They have the depression for the 8-cm discs, and as a plus also accept "business-card" CDs and other oddly-shaped CDs (remember those heart-shaped CD-Rs?), something slot-drives don't seem to accept at all…
Here is some Amiga software that shipped way back in 1996 on an 8 cm CD, with an optional adapter:
http://www.amigaforever.com/classic/ppaintcd70_picture.html
Doesn't anyone think this patent app hints at the inclusion of a mini-drive in an upcoming ultra portable laptop? I know folks are expecting no optical drive, but how are owners expected to install software in this situation (and external drive I guess). A space saving mini drive could be a good compromise. If apple did this, they'd of course need to provide an adapter for when you wanted to put your ultra portable's mini media in an existing laptop. Regardless, it certainly seems like mini DVDs and HD-DVDs would be a good choice for future ultra portables.
I like eerac's idea - really, I don't like optical media at all ... it's slow and kinda bulky. Flash drives & hard drives are the way to go. :D
But ... I doubt we'll be seeing companies shipping drivers & misc software on flash drives any time soon, nor musicians putting their music on flash drives. But you remember back in the day when AOL used to send a floppy every couple months? Format it, and you got yourself a free floppy. :D
Not to mention the operating system installation ... thus the reason for having a DVD drive in my computer.
As others say, there were tons of cd singles in the 80s with these adaptors, I have a whole load. How can Apple file a patent for something like this 20+ years later?
Tony Faddell is the same age as me, so MUSt have seen these CD single adpators at the time.
Translated: Apple's patent committee is too cowardly to vote down the idiotic patent idea of a top-level manager so they waste money on a worthless patent application and the iPod chief gets his bonus.
Apple works just like every other large tech company, including the one I worked for where I sat on the patent committee and watched others vote in their buddies' worthless patent ideas. If a high level manager submits an idea, no matter how dumb, the committee trolls approve it. This Apple one is just about as bad as I've seen, but I've seen worse. I've actually watched as an inventor mocked the committee and stated that his own "patented" ideas couldn't possibly work (but the money spent well). Some people have no problem committing patent fraud, and this example proves that Apple employees are no different.
The sad thing isn't how pitiful this application is, it's that it could very well get approved (and that Engadget and others would report it as interesting news). The fact is that no company in their right mind would ever implement this. It will not be cheaper, it will not be user friendly, and it introduces the possibility of drive damage when that idiotic collapsible adapter comes apart at high speed while spinning inside the drive. Conventional drives have always supported smaller discs. Apple chose to do without that capability and it doesn't hurt them having done so.
Rather than Apple thinking this is a worthwhile patent it's more about protecting themselves from patent trolls in the future. Take the iPhone, 200 new patents for that product alone! I doubt they're all really valuable. They're not going for the Microsoft approach either, by suing everyone they can. But in this day and age it's important to avoid legal issues where you can.
Yeah, Andrew, that's what motivates companies to play the patent game. They have to. Apple is more aggressive offensively with their patents than most other companies so they choose to be part of the problem. Companies larger than Apple in the tech business never use their portfolios offensively. They're the ones worthy of your apology, Andrew, not Apple. Microsoft doesn't sue anyone they can regarding patents, either, Andrew. You might take off your Apple-colored glasses.
Regardless, my comment wasn't about why Apple pursues patents, it was about why Apple pursues totally meaningless patents. Patent groups inside companies work off of patent quotas and some companies even place quotas on individuals. No one in their right mind would consider this patent application to have any merit, yet Apple pursued it. It's interesting to understand why. I believe that the lead inventor being a high level manager is a clue.
The problem with being a large, valuable company like Apple is that you attract a lot of attention from gold-diggers that are looking for cracks in your armor. Being a lawyer I think it's a very smart move on their part. And Microsoft is very actively protecting their IP. Remember the claims of central Linux patents, right? Other than that the Microsoft example also includes the hordes of attackers that go after Microsoft because they bought some patent that Microsoft could be in "violation" of. Take the ActiveX case they lost. It goes both ways of course. In Apple's defense they actively contribute to the FOSS community like WebKit, Darwin and CUPS without restrictive licensing. Microsoft has recently bought into the patent cooperative that aims to stop the patent trolling - but it's not stopping them from signing more licensing "agreements" with Linux distributors..
this is the dumbest idea ever. apple should be embarassed for this being exposed to the public. that guy who came up with it should be fired. i'm never putting anythin but a solid, flat disc into any optical drive of mine.
Damn revolutionary. Such elegance in simplicity. Pure genius. That has to be one the most amazing inventions of the decade. Right behind the iPhone and iPod touch, of course. Apple is on a roll. That adapter should add a few points to the share price. Apple Disk Adapter FTW.
Good catch Engadget. Such interesting news should never be missed.