Vista SP1 kills the WGA kill switch

Microsoft's anti-piracy system known (and loathed) as Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) is set to lose its bite. When Vista SP1 launches in early 2008, WGA will still identify -- ad-nauseam -- what it thinks to be non-legal copies of Vista. However, it will lose its ability to disable said systems. The change was announced in a presentation by WGA senior product manger, Alex Kochis, who said, "Based on customer feedback, we will not reduce user functionality on systems determined to be non-genuine." That should bring a swift end to WGA customer complaints related to false-positives, spyware concerns, or server glitches. Score one point for law-abiding citizens everywhere.

[Via ZDNET, thanks Daniel S.]

[coolbee8 @ Dec 4th 2007 5:45AM]

wow, Still waiting for sp2.

[Hattrick @ Dec 12th 2007 10:52AM]

Waiting for XP-2009 Throwback Edition.

[jtc970 @ Dec 4th 2007 5:50AM]

"In theory, at least, a consumer could install a copy of Windows Vista without a product key, refuse to activate the system for 30 days, and then purchase a perfectly legal license at a discount using Microsoft’s online offer."

Who said crime doesn't pay?

[Ryan Trevisol @ Dec 4th 2007 6:32AM]

I know. I'm somewhat baffled by this.

If anyone's used a crippled copy of windows, you'll know how awesome a job M$ did at protecting their interests. The computer's nearly unusable.

At first it pissed me off. I was working for a client who paid full price to a guy who assured him the copies of XP were legal. Now he had an office-full of machines that barely connected to the internet, and who couldn't access the domain.

Should he have known better? Probably. But the bulletproof part of the whole thing was that when you install WGA, you DO agree to the terms and conditons . . .

There was a lawsuit about this, wasn't there? If they're citing "customer feedback", then they must've won the suit.

So I wonder why they're backing down.

[Nubaeus @ Dec 4th 2007 9:09AM]

@ Ryan

Love the cleverness of using a '$' instead of an 'S'. Your originality amazes even me.

/sarcasm

[shaliron @ Dec 4th 2007 9:11AM]

Here, here.

I've done the right thing and gone out to buy a legal product and to see someone get away with pirating a copy is pretty disheartening.

I don't it's the same as music with its DRM - this is an OS.

[Triple8 @ Dec 4th 2007 11:16AM]

@ Nubaeus:

Why would you say something like that? You're an idiot.

[Gavin @ Dec 4th 2007 11:20AM]

@ shaliron:

Stealing is stealing. A lot of work goes into making a song, a lot of work goes into making an OS. You steal music, you're a thief. You steal an OS, you're a thief. It's the same thing.

[paloooz @ Dec 4th 2007 12:06PM]

It's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.

Cite one case where someone has been convicted, or even charged with theft.

[CosterMonger @ Dec 4th 2007 12:12PM]

@Nubaeus

would you prefer the name a lot of us love to hate:

Microsoft(R)

[Joshua Walters @ Dec 4th 2007 1:30PM]

@shaliron

It kinda is. DRM crippling an OS is just as bad as buying your music and not being able to use it on another brand player.

I havent bought or installed Vista just because a few of my friends had problems with WGA bothering them every time they messed with their machine.

New stick of RAM, WGA. New video card, WGA.

I know alot of that has been fixed, but the assurance that its disabled for SP1 really shows me that Im doing the right thing waiting for SP1 before I buy it. It will be alot more stable and will work alot better.

Heck, I wouldnt have gotten XP pre-SP1 if it wasnt for ME being so unstable, but in this case, I have XP, and Im fine. I can wait till they work all the bugs out or even for the next gen of Windows operating system.

[L.M.L.Y.P @ Dec 4th 2007 2:42PM]

M$!!! WHOAW EDGY!
seriously, it was lame the first time, and its lame now.

[Jeff Lewis @ Dec 4th 2007 2:59PM]

@Ryan

Hold on.. it's MICROSOFT'S fault that your client bought copies of XP from someone and they turned out to be illegal? It's Microsoft's fault for not letting you use software you didn't pay THEM for - just because you paid someone else for it?

Your client was robbed by a pirate. Put the blame where it belongs.

[Ryan Trevisol @ Dec 4th 2007 3:48PM]

@ Jeff, I never said it was MS's fault.

I was pissed at how crippled the computers were, but I quickly understood MS's point of view. And I actually think it was a good thing. It did it's job. The guy went out and bought new copies of XP for all the computers.

I think the move of backing down is silly. The WGA thing was working. I'm running WGA on my computer, and I have no problems because it's not a pirated version of the OS.

[John @ Dec 4th 2007 9:55PM]

Stealing an OS is not the same as stealing music. Huge, huge amounts of money are poured into R&D for an operating system. Selling an operating system is also the only way that MS makes money on it - there's no concert tours for Windows. Stealing music is wrong, yes, but then you have situations like where Trent Reznor's out there telling his fans to fuck the label and steal all they can. The software and music industries have completely different models, so any analogy you draw between them will be inherently flawed.

[Spock @ Dec 5th 2007 5:52AM]

O ye of limited vision...

I am a law-abiding person who's been hobbled by MS's defective protection system (WGA) more than once. I agree that Microsoft has every right (and even a responsibility) to protect their interests. Theoretically that protects me, the well-healed consumer, who actually purchased their products. The problem is that their method (WGA) backfired. The point they concede isn't to encourage piracy (which this may do) but that MS has no right whatever to erroneously disable even a SINGLE LEGITIMATE SYSTEM. So if you feel your interests are being violated, perhaps you would prefer a nice WGA failure--trust me, you wouldn't!

I'm a computer engineer and my only recourse was to turn to the dark side to find (an illegit) workaround. Thus WGA's fault resulted in a loyal and legitimate user (me) exploring the universe of technical impropriety to regain critical functionality--and get on with my WORK! Curiously the problem later went away; I assume it had to do with Windows' automatic updates.

Now exploring a REAL solution...MS could PERMANENTLY safeguard their software by selling their OSs as proprietary HARDWARE solutions including matched processors, a pre-installed OS kernel (as static FIRMWARE on encrypted ROM and a matched ROM to hold the encryption key), multiple EEPROMs (at least one each for the 1) latest SP and 2) static system configuration data) and RAM for more dynamic system configuration information like GUI modifications. They might even explore a coprocessor to manage all their fun stuff! I've heard the complaints about a ROM resident system. Yes, the config EEPROM would need to be flashed to be updated--but the upside outweighs the inconveniences--instant-on systems, very low virus susceptabilities, VASTLY improved stability, etc.!

It would be possible to have such a system reflash the config EEPROM from a bank of "exception (config) RAM," but only 1) as a physically switched option (turn a key, flip a dip switch, whatever), and 2) as a function that would only run after a lengthy virus analysis of proposed updates. This would avoid the VAST MAJORITY of viral uptakes by systems. Such reflashing represents the only time viruses could "infect" OSs sufficient to disable them!

All of this hardware & firmware would EXPRESSLY service the OS and should be PART OF THE MOTHER BOARD! User resources would either live in another area on the mother board or on one or more daughter cards. This way installed USER RESOURCES would remain available to the user--forever! Such a solution would mean a significant redesign of the PC. But imagine, a nearly-instant-on machine that should work as well the 1000th time you power it up as it did the first time it powered up perfectly.

For now, everyone knows that Windows (whether it's 1, 2, 3.x, 95, CE, ME, 98, NT, 2000, XP, Vista in the home, pro, server flavors with 32 or 64 bits) represent a massive (and bloated) work-in-progress. Come on Microsoft, streamline it, convert it to hardware. Also, consider undoing all that WASTEFUL system integration that places HUGE resource demands on the systems of users who don't need/want/understand your various bells and whistles. Instead, make those bells and whistles (like the Pro and Server functions) optional HARDWARE accesories! If approached the right way, you will have ONE perfect primary system (at this point that MUST be a 64-bit OS) on EVERY new motherboard. Then rapidly reconfigurable hardware would add (or subtract!) functionality ALONG WITH THE NECESSARY OVERHEAD to support it...every time!

If MS won't solve this, we'll see ever more customers fleeing to something that lets them get their work done, like LINUX! For now, removing WGA's kill switch is a move in the right direction. Way to go MS!

[wickedpheonix @ Dec 5th 2007 11:30AM]

@spock:

1) I don't have a computer science degree but I do know 1 thing: the hackers will hack it anyways. It's some computer security rule, that no matter how well you secure your network/software, there will be some way to hack it.

2) Nobody is going to buy pieces of hardware that come with an OS, because then those of us who are DIY system builders will end up with about 20 copies of the OS that we don't need, or, it will limit our choices for computer hardware in our builds and that is completely unacceptable.

1+2b) Apple has been doing this for years with OS X by requiring any and all installs of OS X to see a TPM (Trusted Platform Module) that was fused to the mobo (that only Apple manufactures) to make sure that OS X is only installed on machines that Apple has made. Guess what? That's been hacked - people can run OS X on laptops that have similar specs to Macs but are instead made by, say, Sony: the Sony UX.

[Sam @ Dec 4th 2007 5:58AM]

No, thats still bad. I want it where one DVD can be installed as many times as need as long as the product key matches. Vista needs activation like XP, its a pain in the ass to get a new key when installing a new motherboard.

[Phil Perman @ Dec 4th 2007 6:19AM]

When I replaced the motherboard on one of my mates Vista machines, I found getting the key pretty damn simple. Phone up the (free) number, tell them a little lie about the old motherboard breaking rather than it being an upgrade, recite a few numbers from the screen and they gave me a new key. Took about 5 minutes in total. Not too bad, I can think of far worse anti-piracy measures.

[Sam @ Dec 4th 2007 6:25AM]

Only works the first time Phil. I did it once before, I called again and they recorded my number from the last time I had called. Basically he noticed I bought an OEM and wouldn't give me the key. Well, I have another OEM being shipped from Newegg and I'm planning on buying Ultimate at the end of 2008 so I don't have to worry about this stuff ever again.

[Justin @ Dec 4th 2007 9:25AM]

Sam, you bought an OEM copy. What did you expect, exactly?

[Scott @ Dec 4th 2007 10:39AM]

"Well, I have another OEM being shipped from Newegg and I'm planning on buying Ultimate at the end of 2008 so I don't have to worry about this stuff ever again."

So you're rewarding Microsoft for intrusive DRM on legally purchased software by buying multiple copies of the same thing. That'll teach 'em!

[Andrew @ Dec 4th 2007 1:00PM]

I bought Ultimate *retail* a month ago. Installed it. Fiddled with my machine, adding another hard drive, reinstalling Vista on that hard drive, replaced video card with GT8800, put another sound card in and out because of driver conflicts... but still the same motherboard and cpu. Guess what, had to call Microsoft to get a new key. Not only that but I had to talk to a live person after automated system failed to give me a key. I reactivated my XP (OEM, no less) multiple times using automated system. With Vista, I already had to talk to a live person. And it's been only a month. And I haven't even changed the motherboard. I am scared now.

[Leroy Vargas @ Dec 4th 2007 7:38PM]

I called their toll-free phone twice - once after installing a second NVIDIA GeForce 7950GT card into my system (in order to enjoy the benefits of SLi), and then once again after replacing my whole crippled ASUS A8N-SLi motherboard with a new A8N-SLi Premium mobo (same mobo as the first one except it adds a second Gigabit LAN, a second SATA controller, and a fanless chipset cooling system) while still keeping the same AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+ CPU from the older mobo. None of them hesitated in giving me a new activation key after explaining my TRUTH to them. BTW, I have Vista Ultimate 64-bit OEM (purchased along with my first GeForce 7950GT to make it a legit transaction) and am happy with WGA; only thing I'm angry with is that I can no longer use Shift+Tab in IE7 to navigate to previous form-fill box in a website (while Tab key alone still navigates to next fill box).

P.S. when I had XP x64 on the same machine (but with an older GeForce 6600 card), any significant change in hardware did not prevent me from re-activating online - never had to call the phone # to get new key. I no longer use XP x64 and too bad I can't re-sell my XP x64 CD-ROM because it's already activated, unless someone is willing to tell a mobo lie to the MS toll-free and thus use my XP x64 on his/her computer (assuming that he/she purchased my CD first).

[tekdroid @ Dec 4th 2007 6:36AM]

Vista shenanigans:

Vista factory install (Lenovo).
I changed a few drivers (one was the chipset drivers, the other the sound).

40 days into using Vista, it decides to go into reduced functionality mode, asking to be activated. None (not even the factory serial which i saved to text file - no not the one on the sticker, the real one) would work. A few weeks later i read this:
http://apcmag.com/vista_activation

Turns out it was 'designed' that way. What a joke. This is without going into the hassles I had with Microsoft's call centre.

All I can say is this is one promising forward step to counter 3 backward steps this whole activation and wga has been.

[Techfidel @ Dec 4th 2007 6:45AM]

Same thing happened to me when I updated drivers for my Lenovo a few months ago. It took a call to MicroSoft Activation, but it was pretty smooth to get a new key. No biggie really, but not a good way to treat paying customers. Maybe that's why they're toning it down.

On the other hand, I have enjoyed reading about how WGA has put the clamps down on pirates, who probably represwent 99.9% of those running afoul of WGA. Scuttled! I hope the changes won't allow them back out of Davy Jones' locker.

[brokenkeyboard @ Dec 4th 2007 12:23PM]

@Techfidel

WGA-removal hacks are pretty simple and available anyway. A lot of hacked windows install disks even come with it pre-removed.

its like all DRM: it only inconveniences the legitimate customers, while various law-breakers just torrent down a hack.

[WS @ Dec 4th 2007 6:57AM]

That's a shame. The tougher they make their OS to use. The more they reduce productivity and workflow. The tighter they want to keep their customers on a leash, the more people will look to alternatives.

MS is scrambling... Don't you Windows users ever feel sick to your stomach that instead of getting a quality product that shows real improvements, MS spends their efforts trying to shake as much as they can from your pockets???

[batfastad @ Dec 4th 2007 8:40AM]

I'm sticking with XP SP2 at the moment, and for the forseeable future... and there's not much wrong with it IMO.
Never crashes, runs rapidly on current hardware, and can turn all the fisher-price rounded buttons and animation stuff off easily.
Plus it only cost £40 with my laptop for a proper copy. Can't argue with that!

Generally I dislike Macs - I find OSX too slow even on a dual G5, with all the fancy graphical UI for the kids.
But Apple have got the right idea with their licensing pack for OS X... a family edition where you can install it on 5 machines for only $200 or something? Bargain!

Ultimately I want open source to win though. But I need apps like Acrobat Pro, Quark and Adobe Illustrator to become available on Linux without faffing around with Wine. Then I'll finally make that switch!

[Logboy @ Dec 4th 2007 9:41AM]

I agree with your point, except I own a Mac, which is great, but they are just as guilty as MS at trying to turn you over and shake the money out of your pockets...

[insertAlias @ Dec 4th 2007 10:52AM]

Don't you mac users ever feel sick to your stomachs about what condescending assholes you are?

On that note, I shouldn't be generalizing all mac users. I actually use one as my home desktop. I only mean that for people like WS here who try to talk down to me because I choose to own a windows machine as well.

[AlexP @ Dec 4th 2007 3:35PM]

Considering you can install it on multiple machines (Leopard) without any problem (no serial and typical activation crap), I don't know why they called it a family pack (especially when they're okay with a family buying a single license and using it on all its Macs).

[TheAxMan @ Dec 4th 2007 7:04AM]

@Sam:
That idea doesn't work because that way you would just be able to use the same DVD to install Windows on multiple systems.

Honsetly, I saw this article and cringed. I'm expecting the usual flood of "M$ treats its customers like criminals" responses etc. from people who for some reason think that MS should not care if Windows is pirated.

They probably haven't noticed that MS does not prosecute customers who are using pirated versions of Windows. They only go after the people *supplying* the pirated version.

I mean, nobody refuses to enter a shop in the mall because it has metal detectors that beep when some merchandise has not been scanned. These detectors scan you every time you walk in and out of the store -- i.e. they treat you like a criminal, *without* you even having bought anything, and *without* your consent in the form of an EULA).

The only valid complaints against WGA are the danger of false positives (easily fixed by a call to MS's customer service) and the activation service being down (fixed with a call, and a temporary situation at worst). Not ideal, but certainly not on the same scale as "treating customers like criminals".

[Wmc90 @ Dec 4th 2007 7:16AM]

The only issue with the current Vista system is that, if you look at it by your scenario, they shoot you in the foot when the metal detector goes off.

In this regard I am quite grateful that SP1 is going in the other direction, simply notifying the user that it's a non-genuine version; since this is aimed at users that do not know that their windows is pirated and, as such, will be used to track down the people that are attempting to make money off piracy.
I would still certainly prefer a world without WGA, but it is easily better than 'reduced-functionality mode.'

Besides, I'm sure it'll be 'cracked' within 24 hours of release anyway :P

[Spock @ Dec 5th 2007 6:59AM]

Dear TheAxMan,

I'm sorry, but you're wrong about a few things. You said that the danger of false positives are easily resolved with a call to MS. That solution sounds good until you try doing it from Korea!

While stationed there I was denied assistance (and basically told the entire country are software pirates and techno-criminals). I purchased my system through an AAFES computer services vendor at Camp Humphreys (working within a U.S. military community). The vendor had lots of boxed MS software in his shop. He also repaired everyone's personal system in the area. I trusted him and I still think I was right to do so.

I took my new XP Pro system home. I got great use from it for about a month. They it did a "WGA kill" on me. I called MS and then denied me assistance because I was in Korea. Disgusted (and under a deadline) I gave up and repurchased a new boxed copy of XP Pro directly from the PX instead--hey, maybe $0.50 of the $200 I shelled out went to support base Morale Welfare and Recreation--altruistic, wasn't I? Guess what, 30 days later WGA came back. This time my lawyer called MS for me from the states. Hey, no problems! Lesson 1: "Don't send a computer engineer to do a lawyer's job."

Easy? No way!

Angry? You bet!

If my work wasn't so MS-oriented I would have migrated to ANYTHING else and never looked back. I used to build OSs back in school, but not these gigabyte monstrosities we all know and love-to-hate. Does anyone know how to get this ooey, gooey, nasty GUI junk off your desk?

By the way, nice way to treat a friendly nation like South Korea MS */sarcasm/*. Perhaps I'll send Bill Gates a copy of Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and make HIM write a 10 page report about the dangers of racism. Oh wait, MS loves China--and since when did MS employ Jane Fonda anyway? I guess it's not about race, it's just a country they're having problems with--still, it's a handy rule-of-thumb. Hey, maybe China will deny MS access to Hong Kong next...they're sure having fun doing that to our Navy right now.

[David Clark @ Dec 4th 2007 7:07AM]

I think this is a good move from Microsoft. We've always known that copy protection only hurts the innocent, and it only delays efforts by people making cracks.

[m-p{3} @ Dec 4th 2007 7:10AM]

Looks like Microsoft is starting to see it has competitors and need to listen their customers more.

[eX @ Dec 4th 2007 9:43AM]

Dude, you've obviously never dealt with Microsoft and have not a clue what you're talking about. Microsoft is one of the easiest companies to deal with and they do provide excellent support, which is not common to see from a large company. I've been in IT field for over 7 years by now and MS has been great for support and partner support. Not something I can say about other "great" companies out there such as Apple, Dell and such. I don't work for them and not a fanboy either but I've had consistently good experience with them and it really irks me seeing people like yourself jumping on flaming bandwagon just to crap on something. Why don't you support your statement with a few examples to make it stand?

[m-p{3} @ Dec 4th 2007 10:05AM]

Why not provide an example ? Here it goes.

As an IT analyst, I never had any issues with Microsoft, they do provide good support.. to enterprise. However as an home user, I had several issues with my professional license, that was flagged as non-genuine for a reason I'd like to know, which Microsoft isn't willing to tell me. Even if I have my genuine CD and licence.

Just because you never had any issues doesn't mean others never had issues.

[CosterMonger @ Dec 4th 2007 1:04PM]

@eX

Like Microsoft(R) is friendly to Netscape
Like Microsoft(R) is friendly to Java
Like Microsoft(R) is friendly to OpenGl

enjoy your FUD filled world

[suntex01 @ Dec 5th 2007 5:16PM]

@ex
Are you high on something or what? Microsoft the easiest company to deal with? You kidding me? I have legit copies of XP pro. And I've had to ring up MS multiple time due to MB failure and HDD failures....try calling them each time you have to do that...its really PITA

[Luigi193 @ Dec 4th 2007 8:51AM]

NOT BASHING HERE,

But I do like that in OS X you can install it on as many computers, legal or not, without any product key...
But Windows is about a zillion times bigger, so they have to take defensive measures...

Linux is also great...it being free and such!

[Jason @ Dec 4th 2007 10:55AM]

That's the difference. Apple's already made their money off you because you HAVE to buy a Mac to get OSX... so the cost of OSX is already calculated in to the machine you bought.

MS only gets their money if you buy a PC with Windows preinstalled. Anyone can build a PC (which you can't do with a Mac) and then just pirate Windows... which tons of people who build PCs, or even build and then sell PCs do.

Easily possible to have a Windows PC without paying MS for Windows, impossible to have a Mac without paying Apple for OSX (at least the version that comes on it).

[insertAlias @ Dec 4th 2007 11:02AM]

The reason for that is, Apple is a hardware company that also produces software. Without custom hacks (OSX86) you can't put OSX on any old machine out there. You already bought the Apple hardware, and if you like your pirated copy of leopard, you are more likely to buy another mac when you need a new computer. They loose (relatively) little money on pirated software.

Microsoft, however, doesn't produce hardware. Their bread and butter is their software. They have to protect their market. That being said, WGA isn't the way it should be done, and this is a very positive move for microsoft.

[CosterMonger @ Dec 4th 2007 12:42PM]

it being free as in beer!

[DonatoM3 @ Dec 4th 2007 2:04PM]

@ Jason

To add to your statement Jason, Apple also charges $150 to it's customers whenever it moves up 1/10th of a version, and you're forced to update if you want to be able to run the newest version of safari and such. Unlike with windows I pay once for that version of Windows and don't have to pay again until a completely new operating system comes out.

If Microsoft started charging for every Service Pack like Apple does then we should really be more pissed off about this WGA stuff. Like Jason said Microsoft is just trying to protect it's interests.

[DenKonge @ Dec 4th 2007 2:16PM]

@Jason, you can use Mac on custom tower. You need the OSX86 project to make it work.

One of my friend got a working Tiger on his custom tower, he use all PC hardware and it work fine. World of Warcraft run flawlessly on it.

[Chris Thompson @ Dec 4th 2007 9:51PM]

That's all well and good, I've done it, works ok once you nail down the drivers. However, Apple is even more anal about that than MS is about shady versions of Windows. Apple actually pursues legal action against people caught using an x86 version of their OS. Not to mention it's an insignificant threat to them because you're pretty much on your own for drivers or technical problems. Forums are helpful, but forget the genius bar. Also, it takes some technical shill, or at least comfort that usually comes with skill, to pull off.

[Andyj @ Dec 4th 2007 9:17AM]

It doesn't really make a difference removing the 'reduced user functionality' "feature" of Vista. All it does is reduce the users access to things, it doesn't totaly restrict them, I ran lots of programs while in it, just by downloading a file that was assosiated with a certain installed program. From a program like Word, you still have the ability to open explorer and modify files!

[Chris K @ Dec 4th 2007 9:32AM]

In other words, "Nobody is using Vista, and we need to fix that pronto. We'll loosen the noose a bit to get more adopters before our next OS."

WGA is what drove me away from Windows. Activation was the punch in the face, but WGA was the kick in the groin. They'll have to turn WGA OFF and say they'll never do it again to get me back.