House overwhelmingly passes SAFE Act on obscene images -- Ron Paul dissents to save us from ourselves?
By Thomas Ricker 
posted December 6th 2007 7:31AM
posted December 6th 2007 7:31AM
Look, kiddie porn and terrorism are bad. Obvious. But what better way for a government to push through controversial legislation quickly than to harness their emotive properties? After all, what self-respecting member of the US House of Representatives would vote against legislation called Securing Adolescents From Exploitation-Online, or SAFE? Only 2 it turns out (Rep. Paul Broun from Georgia and Rep. presidential candidate, Ron Paul) with 409 members voting yesterday in favor. The new bill requires everyone (that includes you and Starbucks) offering an open WiFi connection to the public to On the surface we're not happy in the least at the prospect of being required by law to do what is an ethical imperative in the first place. Besides, laws are already in place that require ISPs to report child pornography sightings to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Given that the Act was rushed through under a procedure reserved for noncontroversial legislation, never voted on in committee, and was never posted (in its modern October 10th form) for public review, well, let's just say our distrust of the Nanny State has peaked. Ron Paul, care to comment on your dissenting vote before this heads to the Senate?
SAFE Act of 2007 (summary)
Voter roll call
Update: Here is the SAFE Act [H.R.3791.EH] as it was passed. At least it does not seem to require proactive monitoring of data or persons crossing your pipes. Post updated to reflect new information.
I am a regular Engadget Reader, and a Ron Paul supporter. He voted the right way on this bill. Just as he has on almost every other bill in his 10 terms of Congress. Here comes Iowa. Here comes New Hampshire!
Oh look, its the Ron Paul tardbotnet, full of imbeciles that are just following a web scraper link from Ron Paul forums. I'm sure most of you didn't register for Engadget to exclusively comment on this article.
Anyways, I'm just here to predict the future. Ron Paul might make a dent in the primaries, but thats where it will end. In the meantime, Ron Paul supporters will bemoan the *absolutely worthless* straw polls and the lack of media coverage for their unknown candidate. After the election, you'll all get a "good game" email from Dr. Paul, and then he'll promise to keep the revolution going. It'll fizzle.
Do you guys honestly think that *if* Ron Paul is elected, he'll be able to layoff tens of thousands of federal employees? Will Congress and the Senate just roll over and let him dismantle the federal government? Is the sky blue in your world? Can a 72 year old gentleman be elected president?
The answer to all of the above questions is a resounding "No". It won't happen.
I'm supporting Kucinich...some similiar ideals, a lot more believable, and a lot more realistic. We all know Hillary or Barack is going to win anyways.
Check out my username if you want to go toe-to-toe on some actual issues. I'd post a URL so your webscraper could pick it up right away, but I don't want Engadget to edit or sanitize my comment. I would like Engadget to stick with tech and gadgets only, rather than creating political tags. I'll digress.
hey punkboard,
i couldn't find you on your board. i signed up. ursamajor.
the amount of attention we the people give any of this nonsense is equal to the amount of power the system has over your balls (or boobies -for the ladies). Support yourself, develop your localized solutions, bypass idiocy, life is too short and things in actual need of attention; too many. While we vacillate around these supposed issues which congest our humanity, the system which actually supports life itself (uhhh nature feeds you) is being systematically destroyed in the name of the very 'progress' as defined by a group of people who pay attention to themselves and their wants and needs, constantly bitching about why one point of view is better. When governance is what makes it possible to the destruction of the habitat en mass, at what point do the people start to realize this system IS LITTERALLY what is killing every single one of us, forever. No planet = no living. We all need to grow up and get beyond wtf the government can do about anything, other than pay attention to itself. Look up the definition of insane and catch cspan for three hours. The revolution doesn't begin with figureheads, it begins as soon as human attention is focused on things that matter.
Did you read the legislation?
“Nothing in this legislation shall be construed to require an electronic communication service provider or a remote computing service provider to monitor any user, subscriber, or customer of that provider; monitor the content of any communication of any person…”
It doesn’t permit spying. It forces people to act when they happen to notice something awry.
Besides that, there’s already law that is very similar to the one proposed in force already:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00013032—-000-.html
Not sure why Paul didn’t support it. I support him, but I’d like to see his reasoning.
I don’t like the bill in that they specify what you have to report, but then say you don’t have to monitor people (how do I report an email address when people are getting free wifi?), and I don’t like the bit about commingled files. No idea why they need data that is sitting next to bad stuff.
Ok, obviously kiddie porn pics are bad, and for the obvious child exploitation reasons. But why the hell cartoons? No one had to be exploited to prodce them. That probably knocks out close to half the hentai out there since so much of it depicts late highschool-age girls. (Yes I've seen my share of hentai...Anime=Good Porn=Better Anime Porn=Great I really don't think anyone here will agrue much against that.) Why does the government feel the need to restrict things done in private that do not harm others?
Eh, Bush will probably veto it like usual. At least he's good for something.
I have seen a few hentai that happened to be Lolicon - very disgusting and often ridiculous. Especially because all of them involve sex and other offending stuff; if they only showed nudity and no sex, then the story would be different.
Although it's true that no real kids are used to make the lolicon, the intentions for lolicon are still the same as those for real kid porn - and that makes lolicon equally punishable by law in the US. (Ironically, a Japanese researcher recently found that lolicon contributed to more cases of pedophilia in Japan itself! Just look up Lolicon in Wikipedia.)
Howdy,
I have been a voting age American for some while now but my voting rights were getting flabby due to lack of exercise. What I can say is this: my interest in Dr. Paul has encouraged me to learn more about the mundane process of government, (delegates, the electorate), than I have previously bothered. It is an uncommon thing for a politician to breach the wall of inattention, but Congressman Paul has done so--for me. Resultantly, I consider myself a more informed citizen.
Thank you for reading.
Sincerely,
Walter
I guess Engadget took the time to write this article without understanding what Ron Paul stands for. He stands for the US Constitution, in the US Constitution it is up to the STATES to dictate the laws of the STATE! We are giving the US Federal Govt too much regulation. Don't you see that?
Soon there will be a FEDERAL law passed that are going to force you to chip (look up Veritrace) your children for their 'safety'. I hope that day comes fast. Americans have no respect for the rule of law.
Yes, Paul will not win the election. Too bad, America was given another chance at greatness!
Obama '08!!
Hot Spots are now liable for the content?
Say Good-Bye to Free Hot Spots! I will recommend that anyone who runs a free hotspot, Shut it Down Now. You don't want to be liable.
Thank Congress for killing Wifi. They are so thoughtful.
Why do so many people voice concern about such a minor bill?
Because we all know the real issue.
The PoliceState Cookbook:
1. Find subjects at we all hate (terrorism, child porn, etc, etc) and promote fear.
2. Based on fear, pass seemingly goofy laws to look like a patriotic American.
3. Promote criticism of those who don't agree as being unAmerican or radical.
3. To avoid opposition to these goofy laws, make them vague and not required to be proactive.
4. Gradually change it from not proactive to being required - under penalty of law.
5. The King will interperte the meaning of the vague definitions, and eventually the congress will include more definitions of terror or porn.
6. Make definitions of terror and porn to include thoughs or information distantly related to the original fear.
7. Make everyone spy on everyone else about anything defined by the King.
8. Place people on no-fly-lists, and then make them disappear for any thoughs or information against the King.
Anyone who works in tech understands what a horribly stupid and dangerous Bill this is. The fact that it would pass the US Congress by a vote of 409-2 should scare the living crap out of anybody with a brain and is absolutely newswothry for a blog that reports on gadgedts and technology. To not mention the fact that one of the leading Presidentaial candidates was one of the two lone votes for sanity would be an odd ommission. Engadget is just reporting the facts. That those facts happen to paint Rep. Paul in an extremely good light isn't their fault.
This is why Ron Paul must be president. This is the first wave of thought policing going on. Draconian shit laws like these suck.
Ron Paul never looked compelling to me. I am still for John Edwards, his War on Global Warming, and his Universal Health Care...
Regarding SAFE Act: The best thing ever thought of in American History. Uncle Sam, seize and destroy all those disgusting/denigrating Lolicons (kiddie porn in Japanese Hentai-Manga format) and Lestais (Lesbian Hentai)!
Andy, inferring that Ron Paul's views are anywhere near Nazism are false and generated by the utube debate by McCain who was looking to demoralize Paul, obviously McCain's stab didn't work. If you want to see true fascism look no further than the current administration.
You know what's funny...I was reading Ron Paul's healthcare plan since I'm going to be a physician in a couple of years and I was curious what his plan was. And I find it pretty funny that his plan to lower the cost of healthcare includes letting doctors collectively bargain with the insurance companies. Oh well, I guess the other MDs would have killed him if he hadn't put this in there hahaha.
Vote Ron Paul people, The last hope for America. RON PAUL 2008
I've got an idea, let's stop talking about Ron Paul, and start talking about the SAFE Act
They should rather spend their resources on bringing child molesters to justice. Every piece of child porn is produced through sexual abuse, but as there are people sexually abusing children without producing pornography that means there is (much) more real child abuse than child porn.
Why dont they fight the root of the problems?
When I got toothache I go to the dentist to have the root of the pain fixed. The federal government would take painkillers instead, until all teeth are rotten.
Regarding Ron Paul I wish we had someone like him (and something like the american constitution) over here in Germany. I am surprised to see a politician that is as honest and straightforward like he is.
I would definitively vote for him - if I could.
Self said... "Hells yeah they would!"
Bring it Engadget... lets see a Ron Paul endorsement!
SUMMARY AS OF:
2/7/2007--Introduced.
Securing Adolescents From Exploitation-Online Act of 2007 or the SAFE Act of 2007 - Amends the federal criminal code to expand the reporting requirements of electronic communication and remote computing service providers with respect to violations of child sexual exploitation and pornography laws. Requires such service providers, in reporting violations of such laws to the CyberTipline of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to provide: (1) information on the Internet identity of a suspected sex offender, including the electronic mail address, website address, uniform resource locator, or other identifying information; (2) the time child pornography was uploaded or discovered; (3) geographic location information for the offender; and (4) images of such child pornography. Requires the Center to forward each report which it receives from a service provider to a designated law enforcement agency.
Requires service providers to preserve images of child pornography for evidentiary purposes.
Grants service providers and the Center immunity from civil claims or criminal charges for complying the requirements of this Act, except for certain intentional or reckless misconduct.
Requires the U.S. Trade Representative, the Attorney General, and other relevant federal officials to encourage foreign governments to combat child sexual exploitation and pornography.
Authorizes appropriations for grants to the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.
Authorizes courts to order monitoring of Internet use by a convicted sex offender as a condition for such offender's supervised release.
Imposes enhanced criminal penalties for use of the Internet to violate child pornography or sexual exploitation laws.
Requires the Attorney General to make publicly available reports on investigations and prosecutions of child sexual exploitation crimes.
Wow. And I thought the Apple fanboys were the most irrationally extreme in their fanaticism.
People who shout "But he's pro life" and "against same sex marriage" are simply uneducated on the matter and are just jumping on the media sound clip bandwagon.
Look it up - he may be against abortion morally - but stands with the position that his opinion shouldn't be forced upon us as American citizens. He doesn't think that abortion or same sex marriage should be banned, he thinks that the federal government should have no say in it. Do you think the federal government should have that much control over your life?
Oh please, Ron Paul is just an iPhone clone. And to that I say "iPhone in 2008"!
Paul Statements on similar legislation
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=705
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=130
Huh-
Ron Paul does not oppose abortion nor does he oppose gay marriage. Though he has stated that he is against both for his own religious reasons, he also said that doesn't feel such decisions should be left up to our government. If you don't recall, Ron Paul was one of the few who voted NO on constitutionally defining marriage as between a man and a woman. Maybe you should get your facts straight before spreading your ridiculous propaganda!
DEMAND A NEW INVESTIGATION OF 911!
DEMAND RESTORATION OF THE CONSTITUTION!
VOTE FOR RON PAUL IN 2008!
Here is what is wrong with the bill. The child porn portions of this law are already on the books in other laws, all this is redundancy.
It has become common for reps to have bloated bills that they wish to pass, then they add in something like security or child porn so others rep's won't vote against it.
What we end up with is a many layered bill that is filled with pork barrel spending and special interest projects that equals higher taxes or increased deficit spending.
According to the government the average person pays 51% of their money towards taxes, that includes all forms of taxes, and until we do something to stop our elected officials this will continue and it will grow. Don't be a tool and learn whats going on.
Good luck everyone, like everyone I wish to see a better life for our future children, and I don't believe in electing a variation of the same will reach that goal.
"The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.
In 40 years of medical practice, I never once considered performing an abortion, nor did I ever find abortion necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman. "
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/
That is a stance in which I respect. His foreign policy is a problem in my book. We gain nothing by being isolationist and to have 20/20 hindsight is not a valid argument regarding Iraq. If he can offer up a more valid argument in regards to foreign policy, I could move my vote towards him but for now, Im leaning towards Fred Thompson (yes, i know about his pro-choice lobbying a while ago so don't start on that).