First Blu-ray Disc with PiP profile 1.1 announced -- players please?

That's it, you're looking at a screenshot from the world's first Blu-ray profile 1.1 disc. The title is Neues vom Wixxer, available in Germany on December 10th. Ok, not exactly a global blockbuster but a first's a first. As such, it supports the "Bonus View" profile which adds decoders for secondary PiP video and audio. This disc in particular, takes advantage of the profile by integrating video commentary from the film's makers and actors. Unfortunately for our dear German readers, Michael Becker, CEO of Imagion AG authoring studio laments that, "no Profile 1.1 players will be available on the [German] market" when it's released. Conversely, the US has a profile 1.1 player (and whispers of another) and no 1.1 media. Sigh. That tittering you hear is the sound of HD DVD fanboys who've had this functionality since day one.

[Thanks Tim W. and Michael B.]

[nxtiak @ Dec 7th 2007 7:25AM]

Blu-Ray... ahahahAHAHAHAHAHAA

[Jeff @ Dec 7th 2007 7:31AM]

Who the hell cares? It's PIP, guys. Jesus Christ. How many times have you used PIP on your TV, which has also had this functionality since day one? My guess: zero.

When I used to sell home electronics, everybody used to ask if a particular TV had PIP; nobody wanted a TV without PIP. Then we'd ask them if they knew what PIP was or how to use it, and not one person ever did. It's just a buzzword.

PIP has nothing whatsoever to do with either the movie itself or the quality of the picture and sound. Ergo, it's irrelevant.

[TrentD @ Dec 7th 2007 8:35AM]

If you had any idea how PiP was actually utilized on HD DVD, you'd see that it has plenty to do with the movie.

Director's commentaries, storyboards, concept shots, actors' commentaries, unique or interesting trivia. These things all enhance the enjoyment of the movie for SOME people - no matter how far you bury your head in the sand, it won't change that fact.

[Natedog @ Dec 7th 2007 9:51AM]

PiP is amazing during football season; my family is currently going to great lengths to get a second tuner just so we can get PiP working on a new LCD TV.

[Vidikron (FU) @ Dec 7th 2007 10:26AM]

I guess it's a cool option to have, but regular DVDs have had director commentary for YEARS. Sure, maybe it wasn't in the form of PiP, but how many people really bothered to listen to it? I tried it out once long ago and never again. I don't know 1 single person that gives a crap about the extras on DVD beyond maybe an alternate ending.

[Charles @ Dec 7th 2007 1:03PM]

I've never listened to a Director's Commentary all the way through on a DVD either. but several times I've switched over to it for brief moments when I wanted a little more clarification or insight about what was happening on screen. I also agree that many extra features are worthless, but not always. It can be facinating to see scenes that were cut and why, how they did some technical trick, and even the occasional gag reel. And don't even get me started about the beauty of the goodies in something like the Lord of the Rings Extended Cut box sets for people who love movies.

By the way, PIP DOES rule for keeping track of sports on one channel while you watch another game or a different program.

[Twitchy @ Dec 7th 2007 7:36AM]

Silly headline...didn't you just report on 1.1 compatibility coming on the next PS3 firmware update?

[MjW @ Dec 7th 2007 7:39AM]

True, although our TV's support it and the PS3 will get this functionality through a firmware update, I doubt many people are going to use it. I know only one person that looks at the commentaries and that's it.

They should be focused on more important stuff than PIP..

Makes nice word play though, PIP my ass, I'll PImP your ass and so on.

[Jonto81 @ Dec 7th 2007 7:41AM]

Few points for the comments:

1. PIP actually rocks for the special features in HD DVD - I loved watching 300 with the blue screen pip (it's actually quite funny watching them prance about with nothing there)

2. the 1.1 profile update for the PS3 is the same rumour that has circulated the last 5 times, so until it is actually implemented or even offically announced with a date for implementation by sony there is no 1.1 profile PS3

[Jeebus @ Dec 7th 2007 1:45PM]

"I loved watching 300 with the blue screen pip (it's actually quite funny watching them prance about with nothing there"

You watched the whole movie like that? That's almost sad.

PIP is great for TVs and following multiple live programs. But for movies, it's just... meh...

[Fank @ Dec 7th 2007 7:42AM]

Imagine watching a Bluray movie on your HD TV. And not only that, having some ugly people in a room in the corner of your screen and huge german menu boxes annoying the hell out of you as you try to focus on the movie.
Great update!

[James Ollier @ Dec 7th 2007 12:06PM]

Wow sounds like the update is just as annoying as you

[Rene @ Dec 7th 2007 7:47AM]

"News from the Wanker"

You are having a laugh!

[DrXym @ Dec 7th 2007 8:15AM]

BD should support PIP for the sake of completeness and feature parity but lets not kid ourselves that it's a killer feature or something most folks even care about.

[Panq @ Dec 7th 2007 4:05PM]

Completeness is a killer feature for some (myself included). I would consider buying a BD player (if I had a reasonable TV to plug it into, of course), but not until it's complete and all these ridiculous omissions of features are sorted.

[andyo @ Dec 7th 2007 8:16AM]

The question is will the movie even play in players without the updated firmware, especially in HTPCs? Having to update PowerDVD Ultra for blu-ray playback is annoying. Never mind the 90+ "patch" downloads, it seems with each patch they introduce new bugs and at the same time manage to take away functionality (like the ability to choose software/hardware decode since later than build 2911, and the ability to play from HDD since after build 3319a).

Not many people "in the know" are updating to higher than 3319a (3319e, 3319f, 3516) because of this crap.

I have both formats, with the LG drive, and blu-ray has impressed me (after months of only HD-DVD goodness) with the better audio options overall and interface, but this is a matter of implementation, and the fault of PowerDVD respectively, not of format. Blu-ray needs to freaking finalize and stop being so fucking annoying about updates. We already have to deal with the AACS updates bullshit to update also the firmware for "new" "features".

[Calvin @ Dec 7th 2007 8:21AM]

Another couple points:

1) BD has had PiP since day 1. It is immplemented in a non BD-J method. To verify, go look at The Descent. Try to do some research before stating erroneous information.

2) It's PiP! Give me a break. It's a novelty, no more. Who the hell cares about that ability? 0.01% of movie viewers?

Have a nice day

[TrentD @ Dec 7th 2007 8:37AM]

Calvin, the "picture in picture" on The Decent was actually just two versions of the movie on the same disc - basically they had one of the regular feature, and another with a PIP window recorded over the movie. It couldn't be minimized or shut off, or otherwise interacted with since it was part of the film, effectively.

That's a poor substitute for the out-of-the-box REAL PIP that HD DVD has had since day one.

*titter titter titter*

[Jeebus @ Dec 7th 2007 1:50PM]

"That's a poor substitute for the out-of-the-box REAL PIP that HD DVD has had since day one."

Yes, it is indeed a poor substitute. For a feature no one gives a crap about.

[Calvin @ Dec 7th 2007 8:57AM]

To the end user it doesn't matter how it's implemented. To the end user, they receive a PiP experience so I maintain that it's implementation is irrelevant IMO

[nxtiak @ Dec 7th 2007 9:02AM]

Having two full version of the movie 1 with and 1 without pip built into it takes space.

[Calvin @ Dec 7th 2007 9:10AM]

Space issues again is irrelevant to viewing picture in picture and given that you aren't recording to your store bought BD disks, you aren't losing anything.

I am not arguing that BD initial PiP abilities were better than HD DVD's, simply that the ability existed and was implemented). It's a factual error that I am correcting. We can argue technology til the cows come home, but ultimately, those 0.01% of viewers that care about PiP don't care about how it's implemented as long as they can view it.

[andy @ Dec 7th 2007 9:43AM]

The ability existed?! That is the most obtuse and ridiculous argument, clearly coming from a dyed-in-the-wool Blu Boi. Saying that is akin to stating that VHS has 'PIP capability' because two tapes are included in the box and one happens to have PIP window hardcoded into the second tape.

[Michael Chastain @ Dec 7th 2007 12:13PM]

I haven't gotten around to connecting my HD-DVD player yet (so I could be wrong) but I expect true PIP allows you to change the placement of the PIP window, switch the PIP window to full-screen, swap the windows, provide interactive content, seamlessly enable/disable PIP without interrupting the movie, and generally provide more content.

[Calvin @ Dec 7th 2007 2:39PM]

@andy

What's obtuse and ridiculous is your analogy and your attempt at being clever.

This is one disc with a PiP in the options which allows you to "guess what?" watch the movie with PiP. As I said before, it was in movies prior to the 1.1 profile and it's indisputable.

[jntaylor @ Dec 7th 2007 9:25AM]

My two cents, put all this stuff a a seperate disc like DVD's today. When I ask friends / family members who watch the bonus stuff, most say no or only 1 time. I have several bonus disks that I have never watched.

I want the movie to use all of the disk space to get the max quality for its audio and video.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Dec 7th 2007 9:27AM]

Does anybody actually uses the extras???

I remember the times of DVD spring and it was more or less clearly feature added as justification of higher price.

Let's get real: it adds nothing to movies. If movie sucks, the extras will not make it look/sound better. If movie is great, then extras would be last you'd think about when grabbing the disk from shelf.

[Dirk Lucas @ Dec 7th 2007 10:25AM]

I know a few film addicts who watch these extras. One even likes to see the trailers of upcoming movies which I regard boring as can be. But aside from the die-hard fans, I cannot imagine that the average customer gives a damn.
Unless it comes to buying a new player: Then everybody will ask for the exciting new feature every magazine regards as a must-have.

[Marty @ Dec 7th 2007 9:44AM]

I used to watch commentaries all the time when DVDs first came out... but then commentaries became a cliche'd schtick. They used to be insightful, and now it's nothing but either A> An excuse for a bunch of Hollywood turds to get drunk in the same room and talk about everything BUT the movie or B> An excuse for the director and producer to pat themselves on the back for 2 hours and smell their own farts. Some commentaries are downright boring as well.
But, if people had the ability to just pop up the box and hear some trivia about a certain section of the flick... that's kind of cool. People might be more willing to check it out (ok, nevermind that on a regular DVD, all you really need to do is hit the AUDIO button to switch tracks at any point and hear the commentary).
I don't have BD or HD-DVD... so my million dollar question is: Can the PIP video be controlled independently form the feature film? Now that would truly be a useful feature. Imagine you miss part of the commentary, so you rewind the commentary while the movie continues. Then have another 'catch-up' button that brings you back to the correct commentary at the point in the film you're in.
Hmmm... if this idea doesn't already exist, how do I patent it? LOL.

[Michael Chastain @ Dec 7th 2007 12:17PM]

Only once you rewind it the commentary is out of sync, and when you "return to live" you've now missed the commentary for the part of the movie that was continuing to play. Better to just rewind the whole movie.

[Gero @ Dec 7th 2007 9:56AM]

Profile 1.1 haha... This is 2.0
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/08/30/ifa_daewoo_bluray/

[Mystic @ Dec 7th 2007 10:54AM]

/Nelson HaaaHaaa

[Mystic @ Dec 7th 2007 10:57AM]

LOL, look at all the bluray fanboys try to explain why they don't need this feature. Obviously they havn't tried HD-DVD. I use to never watch the special feature, but now with the PiP feature, I watch them all on the HD-DVD movies I rent.

[Vidikron (FU) @ Dec 7th 2007 11:51AM]

Yeah, and look at all the HD-DVD fanboys pretending they actually use these features. Again, I've never known any that actually cared about these sorts of features on DVDs and I doubt we'll see a big increase for the HD formats. It's a nice option, but most people simply won't care.

[John T. Haller @ Dec 7th 2007 11:11AM]

Yawn. HD DVD from last year called, they want their features back. Call me when Blu Ray finally gets to the point that all their players actually have support for the cool picture in picture and live network features that HD DVD has had from the beginning. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my Matrix Trilogy with the kick ass picture in picture stuff to watch how the scenes were filmed.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 7th 2007 11:22AM]

When I sit down to watch a movie, I want to watch the movie... not how it was made.

[John T. Haller @ Dec 7th 2007 11:46AM]

And when I really enjoy a movie, I want to find out how it was made. And I want to buy it so I can watch it whenever I want. The two fit together nicely.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 7th 2007 12:17PM]

You don't need PiP to find out how it was made.

[John T. Haller @ Dec 7th 2007 12:24PM]

Being able to watch the actual scene and popup a green screen of the way it was filmed is pretty damned cool. Don't knock it til you check it out.

[Jeebus @ Dec 7th 2007 2:01PM]

"Call me when Blu Ray finally gets to the point that all their players actually have support"

How about calling me when all HD DVD players have 1080p support?

[John T. Haller @ Dec 7th 2007 2:19PM]

"How about calling me when all HD DVD players have 1080p support?"

Hehe, it's optional, as it should be for those that want to pay extra for it. I don't need it as my TV converts 1080i60 to 1080p60 without issue... and the point is moot since the movies are actually 1080p24 which looks identical in 1080p60 or 1080i60 converted to 1080p60 on the TV as long as the TV is decent. But for someone that wants it, you can get your 1080p HD DVD players just fine for a little more money (still less than Blu Ray players that only support profile 1.0).

[Stephen Lang @ Dec 7th 2007 12:15PM]

Add this to the list of 'solutions in search of a problem'. It sounds interesting, but then again so did stuff like multiple camera angles and interactive DVD menus (which I hate because they're so slow.)

I like having commentary tracks, but that's about all I personally find desirable. The PiP could extend director's commentary, but I doubt much of the video is interesting. Other video-oriented material is typically folded into a 'making of' type bonus feature.

[John T. Haller @ Dec 7th 2007 12:31PM]

True, a commentary track with just a talking head would be pointless. But lots of HD DVD's make good use of the PiP by showing cool stuff... like the original blue or green screen of the raw footage with the actors in the case of The Matrix and 300. It opens up quite a few possibilities.

[Stephen Lang @ Dec 7th 2007 12:50PM]

@John- I agree the idea of watching the original greenscreen shot is very cool. But I'm wondering if we need to have the entire movie in PiP that way, or if that's pretty much fine showing some excerpts in a special feature, ya know?

But I reserve judgement until I watch 300 that way...Maybe in that version, we see that all the 6-packs were rendered digitally, and they all actually have big beer guts. ;-)

[why not the LS2/LS7? @ Dec 7th 2007 12:37PM]

I don't watch the extras anyway. And I don't think I'm alone. People are making a mountain out of a molehill.

And 300 sucked ass the first time. I could feel my brain draining out my ear. I'd rather be waterboarded than watch it again with a 2nd picture in the corner.

I swear, BluRay can do everything DVD can and them some, and in HD. And people want to make it out as insufficient? Try telling DVD owners you can't enjoy extras without PIP.

[Evan @ Dec 7th 2007 1:18PM]

Engadget is turning Blu... I see the writing on the wall.

[Jeebus @ Dec 7th 2007 1:54PM]

Along with the rest of the world. 2008 will be the end of HD DVD.

[Garst @ Dec 7th 2007 1:45PM]

I'm not impressed by what this adds in value of watching movies.

[Iridium @ Dec 7th 2007 2:12PM]

Remember how multiple camera angles were supposed to be a revolutionary feature of DVD, it's nice to keep looking at a button on the remote that does nothing for any movie other than a few odd porno dvds

Remember all the cool interactive features that DVDs were supposed to have. Like the Matrix when you press a button when the rabbit appears.

Rememebr when nobody actually cared about the special features and just watched the movie so they just added a few crappy features to a DVD and released a collectors edidtion for $10 more for the people that actually cared about features.

[Martin @ Dec 8th 2007 1:14PM]

In the end these are just extras, I get DVD/BD films and I dont watch the extras, I have LOTR's extended boxset and they have hours upon hours of extras and ive not watched one single minute of them, the only time I will watch and extra is if its out takes and TBH who would watch them while watching the film. Sorry but I just dont care about this stuff.