Samsung's BD-P1400 Blu-ray player sinks below $300
By Darren Murph 
posted Dec 8th 2007 9:48PM
posted Dec 8th 2007 9:48PM
[Thanks, Adam]
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Before the fanboy stuff starts from either side - they both will be but memories within 5 yrs, so give it up already.
You act like 5 years is a negligible stretch of time. Do you live under a rock from time to time or something?
one word: PWND
Just an FYI to everyone looking to buy this player and has access to a local Costco store, I seen it there today for right around 250 (i do not remember the exact price) but it surely made me stop and look. It appears that its an in-store price only, but worth checking out!!
why does this article sound more like an ad from the Blue side? I will tell you that I support both formats. But this was way to easy to point out.
Like Engadget didn't promote all the A2/A3 deals? I also support both formats.
Agreed. Certainly, the HD dvd side has gotten a fair bit of attention, but that was when it broke the 200 and 100 dollar barriers for any hd player. I don't see this as quite the same situation.
I disagree. Personally I own an HD DVD player but I really enjoy seeing Engadget and other blogs for being on the ball with the deals.
Amazon really blows my mind sometimes with their prices. Had I not started reading Engadget and some other blogs I would have missed out on some nice prices. Last week I ordered Halo 3 Legendary for 60 bucks with free shipping from Amazon. Can't beat half off!
I don't care that its a Blu-Ray player because they also have chronicled deals on HD DVD players, 360's, PS3's, Zunes, iPods, etc. I don't see any bias in this post, that isn;t to say in some of the other format war posts there aren't.
Pretty interesting that it only has a 3.5/5 rating on Amazon.
With a ps3 retailing at 400, I don't think there's any situation where you would want to buy a standalone player. I'm no ps3 fanboy by any stretch, but even games completely aside, the ps3 has a ton more to offer for the money. Video streaming, hard drive, possible pvr updates. Sure, it's a 100 dollar difference, but if you're spending that kind of money on a format that isn't quite secure and where content is 30-40 bucks a pop, you likely have the extra money lying around. If not, stick to a dvd player and wait for a better price.
Actually Blu-Ray movies tend to be cheaper than HD-DVD because they only come with one version. HD-DVD fans are getting charged for two movies every time they purchase a title. Blu-Ray discs come with the HD movie version only. Where some HD-DVD's also come with the DVD compatible version on the other side of the disc. But, you have to pay for both versions of the movie, regardless. But, with Blu-Ray's constant BOGO on Amazon and other online retailers, people are making out like bandits. I can get Blu-Ray movies cheaper than their DVD versions.
I support Blu-Ray and it's about time stand alone prices were to start coming down on the Blu side. I think Toshiba is selling a lot of their HD-DVD players. But, we'll see what happens with WB in January. If WB goes Blu, this war may come to an end quicker than initially expected. If they go Red or stay neutral, we'd be in this war for an even longer time than expected.
"HD-DVD fans are getting charged for two movies EVERY TIME they purchase a title."
Is that right?? Well, I guess I got gypped because all my HD DVD movies aren't combo discs.
Love those blu fanboys.
None of the HDDVDs that I own are combos, and I think they were giving up on that anyway. Steve, do some research before posting inaccurate information.
Two words.
Universal Remote.
Does the PS3 have an IR port yet, or do you still have to use the crappy blue tooth remote? Doesn't do me any good as I use my Harmony for everything. So that makes the PS3 not such a great player after all.
But still not $100.
Its 1080p. Show me a 1080p HD-DVD player for 100.
Meh. Got my HD DVD player for $170 with 10 movies. So not all that impressive.
But what were the 10 movies? Every "10 movie" pack I've seen has been 1 or 2 "a-list" movies, and a bunch of filler crap.
Profile 1.0. No deal. I'm waiting for Profile 2.0 (they should just skip 1.1). Blu-ray is hurting because of this unfinished standard.
I have 2 HD DVD players (one is going to be a gift) because of the price. When Blu-ray finally gets their act together and can equal the features on HD DVD, I'll get one of those also (or a dual-format player).
John
Blu-Ray is "hurting" to the tune of a 72% high-def market share.
Face it - normal people don't care about "profiles". Hell, I'm a tech geek and I couldn't care less about profile 2.0. I just want to watch the damn movie with the best quality possible.
Well for a start HD-DVD hardware sales far out weigh BluRay sales. You can't count the PS3 as BluRay hardware sales because a high percentage didn't buy it to watch films on. BluRay films outsell HD-DVD films consistantly but has there been even a single day when the BluRay camp weren't running a BOGOF offer and claiming each sale as two sales?
As for your quality comment. Both formats are just containers for holding files and both films use the exact same codecs for the audio and video they contain so how can you claim one has better quality than the other?
"You can't count the PS3 as BluRay hardware sales"
You can't NOT count the PS3 as BluRay hardware sales.
PS3 is singlehandedly responsible for a majority of Bluray movie sales.
To claim PS3 doesn't count is assinine.
I'm sure the BluRay camp would love to count PS3s in their hardware sales figures but the truth is they cannot and they know it. Not everybody who buys a PS3 does so to watch BluRay movies on it. Some may have seeing how it is/was the cheapest method of doing so but not many. Some who bought it solely for gaming may have bought a movie or two to see what it's like.
The PS3 is primarily a gaming console and a media centre second. I doubt even 80% of PS3 owners have even tried a BluRay movie in it. I mean do they count PS2 sales into the global DVD player figures? How about the Xbox or the 360?
Carbonize, The video bitrate can be higher on Blu. You are right if you use the same VC1 encoding on both, the PQ is going to be close to identical. But Bluray has the capacity for highter bit AVC which some prefer over VC1. On the audio side, Blu also has the capacity to include non compressed PCM audio which is definitely better than even the new Dolby or DTS formats.
that's a great deal!
Why would you ever buy this over a PS3, which is a computer + entertainment system + Blu Ray player?
I agree with you. People don't realize the amazing value of the PS3. I have the 60gig version and the PS3 has become my entertainment hub. I use it to watch movies, listen to music, surf the internet, look at pictures, and more. No I don't work for Sony. But, I'm very pleased with my purchase.
Actually you are right...I want to get a PS3 to go along with that HDTV that I'm gonna purchase soon. Its perfect really to play Blu-Ray movies and stream MP3s to my home theatre system. Not interested in the games but its a great piece of hardware.
Hmm...I wonder how much Sony loses if I use it that way.
most people still think of a PS3 as a gaming console. A lot of people dont want to buy a gaming console even if it plays HD movies. Most people probably dont give a rats ass about streaming media either. They want a BR player that works, and is cheap, can work with a universal remote without a dongle, and looks like a DVD player. hence this product and many similar to it. Why would they pay $100 more for features the generally dont care about?
Awesome news! This is just one of the many cards Blu-ray can play which HD DVD has already tried and failed miserably at.
Best part is, this player is 1080P ... not like those lame HD DVD 1080i paperweights that got fire sold a month or so ago.
LOL - soon HD DVD will have to start paying people to take their machines ... will it ever come to that? Hehe
There are also 1080i movies on Blu-Ray so both camps have players and movies in the "i" camp. "World's End" is 1080i whick was a shocker.
Most home users don;t even know what that is, call tell a difference, but will huges savings, it is a worthy purchase. Many people have 1080i TVs, or 720P TVs (Yes some are 720 and not 1080i.)
Blu-Ray has a while to go, but I am sure they know what they must do.
The PS3 is the best deal right now.
M
World's End is NOT 1080i ... it was a typo ... do some simple search online and you'll see that.
ALL Blu-ray players are 1080p ... not so for HD DVD.
Most HDTVs in homes today are 720pish (768p or whatever) or 1080i. By the time the existing HDTVs get upgraded, 1080p hi-def players will be $100 a pop.
BBG, you dumbass...if you have a 1080p HDTV then it doesn't matter if the source is 1080i or 1080p: your TV deinterlaces and displays 1080p.
YAY FOR MARKETING BUZZWORDS AND UNFOUNDED HYPE!
superklye, nice FUD. If you don't know the difference between a 1080i signal or a 1080p signal then I feel sorry for you.
The reason cable companies do not broadcast 1080p yet is because they don't have the bandwidth for it. 1080i is lower quality ... lower then 720p actually. Get your facts straight, and stop being angry that HD DVD is losing - just deal with it.
I'm stunned, BBG. You truly are the dumbest person I've yet to encounter on the internet.
You're aware that 1080 = 1080, correct? Do you even know what the i and p mean and, more importantly, what the difference between them is? I'm assuming not since your ass is doing all the talking for your mouth and fingers.
i = interlaced, or the picture is displayed by alternately flashing half of the image lines once ever 60th of a second (that means it's a 60Hz signal) in a vertical fashion.
p = progressive, or the the picture is displayed fully from left to right with all 1080 lines showing on the screen 30 times a second (that means it's a 30Hz signal) in a horizontal fashion.
1080p HDTVs only have one resolution: 1080p. Whatever signal you feed it, it displays at 1080p. If you play a scene from a movie at 1080i and then again at 1080p THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN PQ BECAUSE IT'S 1080P REGARDLESS. This applies to HD DVD and Blu-ray. Maybe do a little research and understand how your TV and the technology behind it works before you continue to make yourself look like the uninformed shill of a n00b you obviously are.
And wtf does digital cable have anything to do with it? 1080p is not a better picture than 1080i. It's the _same_ picture displayed in a different way. And yes, the bandwidth required for a 1080p picture is far greater than what a 1080i signal requires, so why not let your 1080p HDTV do the hard work when the picture is going to be identical whether your cable provider sends a 1080p signal or your TV deinterlaces a 1080i signal?
superklye,
1080p looks much better then 1080i.
720p looks much better then 1080i.
With 1080p you get all of the signal in 1 frame so it is clearer and with more detail - that is why it looks better.
There's a reason why all Blu-ray players are 1080p, that's because it is better.
Stop being angry, and sit back and watch as Blu-ray continues to go every week this year winning in media sales.
hahahaha
My God, you are hilarious. How much does Sony pay you? Did you even read what I said?
No. Of course not. You're reading what you want to read and that's it. Then you reply to things I'm not even saying, making you look like a further idiot because not only are a mindless drone, but your reading comprehensive is that of a 4th grader. And that's insulting 4th graders everywhere.
I'm not going to bother replying to or reiterating it again because you refuse to see facts and keep spewing the ridiculous marketing hyperbole that Sony expects shills like you to lap up and regurgitate to the rest of the idiot masses.
superklye,
You can't win, so yes, you should quit. The same goes for HD DVD.
This is crazzy how up tight PPL get over this Blu and Red stuff...and about the statement that 1080p is far better than 1080i ...NoT completely true for the reason's stated.. THE quality is identical(1080p and 1080i) if it were different it would be more (1080P and 1032i)or "vise versa". the only deference is that at 60hz the 1080p refreshes the 1080 lines in the fist 1/60 of and second and holds the image for 1/60 of a second giving the human eye an 60th of a secound to process a still image. where as 1080i is refreshes the odd lines in the 1st 1/60 of a second and the even lines (or other half )of the image in the other 1/60 of a second. Giving the human eye no time to render a solid image before the next image is being scaned on the TV set.
SO to the very very very every trained eye you may see a difference with the added 1/60 of a second every 1/10 of a second
subconsciously the mind is fast enough to see every line and process it perfectly but, consciously ...NOW THATS A DIFFERENT STORY!
BOTTOM LINE THERE JUST LETTERS AND EQUALLY LOOK GREAT!
1080p gives you a richer image ... if you don't understand that then there's really no hope for you.
this is a bad deal for profile 1.0, it is already outdated. it won't be long before profile 1.1 is outdated. so why is blu ray better for consumer?
1.1 is a software update. doesn't matter either ... it's about content ... which Blu-ray simply has more of ... and is selling more .. that is why Blu-ray is winning and why all the stats say so :)
Actually no. Profile 1.1 is NOT a software update. It is a hardware update of a second video processor to allow for picture in picture.
http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdbasics/a/bluhddvdinfo_2.htm
this BBG guy is stupid, do your homework first
Some players already have the required hardware, such as the PS3. So for a couple of players on the market it is just a software update away.
If it isn't Dual Format, it isn't worth it..end of story.
Interesting story, but I wouldn't buy it. Why? The same reason why I bought an HD-DVD player when it dropped.
I know that I will buy a PS3 eventually... I'm a big FF fan. It has Blu-Ray on it already, so I chose to buy the HD-DVD player instead. There's no reason for me to buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player when I plan to get a PS3. Just waiting for FF to drop in... hopefully the PS3 will be cheaper by then. So in my situation... having Blu-Ray on the PS3 actually hurts BR because it delay's the numbers a bit. I'm assuming others are thinking like me as well.
Ai, you'll have to wait until around Spring 2009 for FF then lol.
But I'm not very certain it hurts the numbers. It seems to be sort of a niche category because usually those types of people rather just get the DVD versions, or get a PS3 and have it WHEN the certain games come out. Then again, lotsa people are waiting on MGS4 or FFXIII, so that niche category might actually be fairly large.
Yeah, I know I'll be waiting a while for my PS3, but the point is that I know I'm already getting one which automatically means that there isn't a reason to really get a BR player for me at all. The reason I dont buy a PS3 now is because I'm pretty sure that the longer I wait, the better the quality/price of the machine I'd be getting. (profile 2.0 and most likely a price drop). Until then, I can enjoy HD movies on HDDVD. If it's not on HDDVD, I'll settle for the DVD version of it. And just to state my opinion on the difference between HD and SD w/ an upconverting player, from a filmmaker's opinion, the difference is very noticeable but not that big of a deal. I have a 67 inch DLP which I watch movies on and there's definitely a picture and sound difference... no lying there... it's noticeable too if you're looking for the difference, but when you're watching a really good movie, the difference becomes less and less important. Very few times have I watched a great movie... emphasis on "great"... and was pulled out because I couldn't see the individual pores on the character's faces during an extreme close up, or the details in the marble counter tops in the kitchen scene. The point is, better quality is better quality, but it's not the deciding factor in anything. The only ones who seem to have a problem with it are those who are bugged by the fact that there's better out there, not because what they have isn't good enough. Well guess what? There's a good chance your audio setup isn't the best out there either.
"The reason I dont buy a PS3 now is because I'm pretty sure that the longer I wait, the better the quality/price of the machine I'd be getting."
Odd statement, the longer you wait the more corners they cut in the machine.
In EU they're dropping the 80, chances are the US will be seeing that in time as well.
The 20GB was a decent model for the non-enthusiast, the 60GB model was a sweet spot for gamers with Hardware BC and all the features.
The 80GB Model removes hardware, it increases the drive size and it uses cheap software emulation to try and run PS2 titles with much to be desired.
The 40GB Model which is their lead selling model scrapes off BC extra ports and stands to be their primary model as it's a further reduced version of the 80.
So in the end, waiting for better quality is a bit of an odd statement, they're cutting costs and features now in order to make the console more affordable for them to produce. You'll be hard pressed later for someone with a 60GB enjoying FF titles on their system willing to trade up with the 80GB software model or the stripped out non-bc model like the 40GB.
As I posted over on EngadgetHD, the lack of built in DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD(MA) decoders makes this a no-go in my book. PS3 is the only way to go I'm afraid.
For me Price is everything. I remember when DVD players firs came out, it had a ridiculous price tag, then it settled around 99$, today you can get on for 29$.
I hold the same will happen with HD-DVD and Blue-Ray DVD players, and I think the prices will drop faster because there is a competing format.
At the end both will lose to downloading the movie and watching it on your HDTV
For those asking why someone would take the BR player v. PS3 = I would take this over a PS3. I got a PS3 3 months ago from Sony. Sony gave me $150 too, so I only paid $350 for that 60 GB PS3. I returned it 25 days later and kept the $150. :)
I didn't find the PS3 (or Xbox or Wii) worth owning. The extras others point to mean nothing to me. A hard drive...for what? to stream movies. Yeah, don't care to do that. Play games? Shrug. I gave away my PS2 years ago and really most games are quite boring.
So for the savings I see something the PS3 isn't: a dedicated blu ray player. I still will wait until BR is under $200; funny as I was bleeding edge with the DVD in 1999 but have no desire to follow that on BR or HD-DVD even with our 1080p TV. The PS3 though, is a nightmare for movie watching. It boots slowly, it's loud and it has a tendency to reject BR movies. Yes, several movies we attempted to watch on BR were rejected. And seriously even with HDMI and 1080p, short of planet earth not much is impressive on HD-DVD or BR. Sorry but it's the truth. The visuals are a bit better but they don't offer the huge leap in visuals AND convenience that we saw on the jump from VCR to DVD.
So, I'll take a dedicated BR player over a PS3. And I don't care if HD-DVD or the PS3 come with free movies...after 8 years of collecting DVDs I see the futility. Once in a very unusual while we'll pop a DVD we own into the player. We simply don't re-watch movies so I've got about 200 worthless discs filling a cabinet in my house.
thanks the internet gods for Netflix, eh?
The PS3 takes approximately 3 seconds to boot. This is a "nightmare" for you? It recognizes BD discs as soon as they spool up - much faster than most dedicated players. It has not rejected a single BD disc I have thrown at it.
"And seriously even with HDMI and 1080p, short of planet earth not much is impressive on HD-DVD or BR. Sorry but it's the truth."
Maybe the truth *for you*, depending on what TV you're watching it on. I have a 42" 1080p LCD and the difference between BD discs and DVD's is incredibly obvious. I feel like I need glasses when watching DVD's; it's no different than watching SDTV. 1080p is *eight times* the resolution of 480i - if you can't see that difference, then you need a better TV.
Yeah, Netflix is fantastic. There doesn't seem any reason to spend gobs of cash when I can see 16 flicks a month (4 movies at a time plan) on Netflix for $20.
Jeff,
My PS3 took a good 10-20 seconds to boot. To start any dvd - BR or SD took well over 1 minute. It had all the latest patches and was in a well ventilated area. The damned thing made more noise than anything else in our living room. It was louder by than the whisper quiet PC sitting on my desk right now.
as for rejecting discs - it was a crapshoot when it would recognize a movie.
Finally, yes it looks better but I suppose the fact is, short of Planet Earth, nothing really impressed me at that resolution. I'm a hardcore movie watcher - on Netflix I've rated over 6k movies - but in the end the picture quality isn't enough to sway me. DVD gave me instant access, 5.1 sound and true wide-screen after living for years with pan and scam. BR offered much slower access and a better picture. The better picture quality honestly doesn't matter to me. I don't care if I can see the pores on an actor's face. I don't even care if the background is sharp and detailed. It's really not why i watch movies. Dialog, story, acting are what I care about. The visuals are pretty much meaningless to me. Maybe it's because I've always embraced older films - 20s-50s - and those story elements were strongest. Today the FX and CGI don't add to the stories, they just bore me. HD or SD for say a big action movie or a sci-fi film matters not. I don't really give a damn about the visuals.
This is exactly what I predicted would happen months ago; that stand alone blu-ray players would drop rapidly in price.
So basically, the only advantage HD-DVD had over blu-ray was price, but with cheaper blu-ray players like this, (and am sure there will be more to follow) HD-DVD doesn't have a single advantage anymore.
I'd really like to see the HD-DUD fanboys try to spin this.....
HD-DVD doesn't have an advantage anymore? Are you kidding? Hello pip, in movie internet downloads for updates and changes to movies. These features will take a while longer for blue to get. which means that if you buy a stand alone blue player now, you get screwed later. Can someone explain the real reason why HD-DVD's cost more then Blue Ray movies? This still doesn't make sense. Even the ones that don't have a regular dvd version still cost more then blue ray movies. I used to buy more HD-DVDs but now I buy more Blue Ray movies because of this price difference.
the reason this unit is closeout is it cannot support 1.1 or higher- so it is pretty much obsolete when movies start utilizing these features...
Samsung also just released their dual-format player (joining LG); looks like Samsung is starting to wonder if they made a bad choice going with BDA only.
@ Boogie
So what? Blu-ray has those features too so I don't see how that helps prove your point. It doesn't matter if its going to take longer to get; its going to happen either way so HD-DVD doesn't have that advantage. And you must admit; its kinda sad if that was your only advantage don't you think?
It seems to me that you support blu-ray so I don't know why you are trying to argue with me.......
Nice to see some Blu-Ray hardware dropping prices!
Why not lower? is there some licensing fees that are keeping them at this level and higher for so long?
From whatever stats people are quoting and mis-quoting, hardware prices should be equal by now, shouldn't they?
i'll agree they will only last about 5 years if that long because they both are loosing a lot of money on both formats and they are not even putting a dent in the dvds sales.if by the end of next year and br and hd dvd are still not profitable then 9 times out of 10 they will have to stop making both formats because neither company can keep making them year after year and not make money because neither one of them have an endless bank account.
the reason that dvds caught on was because they took up a lot less space then video tapes and the pictures were 100% better but br and hd dvds take up about the same amount of space and the picture are not 100% better then dvds,i'll admit it's better but less then 100%.
the only way that you can take advantage of the pic in br and hd dvd is if you have a tv that's 1080i or p because if you have a 720 then the pic isn't that much better then hd dvds and it doesn't pay to upgrade and the majority of people that have an hd tv only have a 720.
i'm a movie collector and i have over a 1000 dvds but in about 5 years the same thing will happen to movies that happen to cds.
when people first started downloading music a lot of people said that it want last because people like to buy the cds so they could have it in their hands,well they were wrong and cd sells are way down because of it and the people that said it want last are buying music off line today.
in about 5 years they will have movie sites that will be like napster,you will be able to rent the movie and watch it for about 24hrs and you want be able to down load it or you could buy the movie and then you will be able to record it to a dvd.
right now you could get hd movies off different servies,even xbox live you could rent an hd movie and start watching it about 2 mins after you start downloading it,it want be complete but you could still watch the movie with out it messing up because you don't have to wait till the whole movie finish like some people claims.my little boy only downloaded about 2 japanese cartoon because i don't like to use any game system for movies because i use stand alone players because it ware out the game unit quicker if you use it to watch movies on it all the time.
downloading all media off the net in the future is unstopable because it's progress,if you like it or not you want be able to stop it,hell you will be able to download any game you want to,they are starting to do that now to.you could see how every thing that is intertainment is moveing to the downloadable market in the future because that's the only way to go.
Yes, it's a decent price drop but still between $150-$200 more than the cheapest HD-DVD players available. Spare the specs, average Joe who shops at Wal-Mart only cares about the price tag. Anyways, whoever would actually buy this is an absolute moron when a PS3 is only $100 more.
Add on profile 1.1 (or better yet, 2.0) and a ethernet port (a must for all the firmware updates each side keeps releasing) and then you have a deal. I just simply cannot justify a profile 1.0 player and no ethernet port for $300.
With this firesale on this player and now yet another BOGO. Blu-ray is getting desperate and actually pretty pathetic.
They have to give away BDs, which count as sales, just to buy wins for weeks with strong HD-DVD releases.
I am sure it doesn't matter though, the BDA is probably loosing money and the software sales are not turning a valid profit. I guess the question comes down to what do you want, to be able to toot your horn over you inflated and fake sales numbers, or to not be bleeding money and actually turn a profit. Will be interesting to see how much longer BDA can finance all of these firesales. It is rather funny that all the blu-rays fans and cellpool zealots over at Blu-ray.com are saying that HD-DVD is dead (can't even keep track of the number count yet) or that the last nail in the coffin or whatever else FUD they feel like spreading, but HD-DVD is going strong and just proved it in last weeks Neilsen numbers. It also proved it in the Transformers week when BD bought their win, the weeks following Transformers and will again this week with the strong HD-DVD release lineup.
To make the claim HD-DVD is dead, just goes to show how much of a moron you are. You need to learn to live with the fact that the two HDM formats are here to stay. The real question is if HDM can overtake DVD and break out of a 1% niche market.
Are you smoking crack??
If anyone is looking desperate, it's Toshiba (the ONLY HD DVD equipment manufacturer). Selling players at $99 is a major loss for them, although it's great for the people who want cheap (albeit time limited) HD.
Also BD now account for 72% of the movie sales, to HD DVDs shrinking 28%. It wasn't long ago it was only 67%. BD is clearly increasing its lead.
Just face it, HD DVD is dying and by early 2009, it'll all be over.
Oh, have to break out the smoking crack comment, intelligence is just oozing out of you!
It must be nice to be a blu-ray zealot, you guys can make up your own numbers and post them as fact. Where the hell are you getting this 72% for Blu-ray and 28% for HD-DVD. It is 65% to 35% for the year and 62% to 38% since inception. Also your bold claim of $99 being a major loss, have any facts to back that up, no... I didn't think so. On top of that, unlike BDA backed firesales (using your blu-ray zealot terms here) and BOGOs, the $99 player was a Wal-mart and Best Buy promotion.
As for your other wild claim of Blu-ray clearly increasing its lead. Yeah, they clearly are when, when you zealots forget to mention last weeks numbers of 58% to 42%, yeah, that clearly show that Blu-ray is winning. What about the Transformer week and the weeks following. Transformer week was 51% to 49% and that is only due to the BDA buying the win with a BOGO, otherwise Transformers would have won. The weeks following also had a pretty even showing with still more BOGO bribes. But you crazy little zealots like to ignore that. This week should also be close to 50/50 with Bourne and the BDA BOGO bribe. Never mind that fact that HDM is 1% of the movie market right now, so these number really aren't impressive when looked at the big sceen and both formats are in fact actually getting destroyed by DVD.
I have heard you zealots spew the format war is over or it will be by . I have yet to see any of these predictions come to fruition, so give me a ring when you actually have something. Go back to your cesspool at Blu-ray.com where people will actually buy into the FUD you spread.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/30/nielsen-videoscan-high-def-market-share-for-week-ending-november/
Wow, impressive, you can post a link of just one week!!!
Here, let me try this...
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/02/nielsen-videoscan-high-def-market-share-for-week-ending-october/
and
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/02/nielsen-videoscan-high-def-market-share-for-week-ending-october/
Wow, that sure was easy.
Now go back to that rock that you crawled out from under (Blu-ray.com) and if you have anything valid, worth while or non-trolling, then please, by all means post it. Otherwise, go spread your FUD else where.
I really hope Warner doesn't switch over to the Blu-ray camp. I wasn't on an specific side in the HD war, but I got in on the really cheap Toshiba HD-A3 Amazon deal for $160 + 10 free HD DVDs. Now I feel like I'm obliged to at least hope that HD-DVD pulls through.
I'm glad the price on Blu-ray players is starting to drop a bit. But even with this price drop they are too expensive for the average consumer.
Personally I own both Blu-ray and HD-DVD playback devices, but I hardly use either of them. I have a handful of movies, but for now I have quit buying them. For the privilege of spending more money vs DVDs I end up with discs that don't play in my bedroom/game room/bathroom/laptops/truck (with the exception of the HD-DVD combo discs, which I do support), something I very quickly tired of. I won't be buying players for any of those locations until their prices come down, so for now I won't be buying any more HD discs unless they're HD-DVD combos I can play everywhere. On many discs you can't see much difference between HD and an upscaled DVD anyway, so I really haven't missed much anyway by sticking with DVDs for most of my movie purchases.
Keep those prices coming down and maybe I'll start to get excited again.
This seems like a great deal until you read the reviews on Amazon. There's a reason they've cut the price %50.
This is a discontinued model- just like the HD-A2- and this unit is not upgradeable to 1.1/2.0.
Samsung is also trying to getting their brand name in the media as they just released their dual-format BD-UP5000 player and they want to stir some holiday sales (against the wishes of the BDA?).
I bet Sony is a little pissed that Samsung is undercutting their cheapest BR player by $100...
Naw, Sony doesn't care - their stuff is always more expensive, but they count on the Sony name to sell it to consumers.
Besides, no matter which player someone buys, Sony still makes the licensing money off of the player technology, and off of the disc licensing.
Well, its good to see now stand-alone BluRay's players are going down in price. It makes since too because, to be honest with you, it was stupid for the stand alone's to cost just as much as a PS3 when you get ALLOT more out of a PS3: A game console, a multimedia hub that views photos, plays video files (though needs DivX, thankfully I got my Xbox 360 for that), plays music, can stream content off of a network, browse the net (though the Wii browser is FAR, FAR better), as well as play DVDs and BluRays. I am no fanboy at all (I own all three platforms), just stating the obvious that until this price drop, it would of been kind of dumb to get a stand-alone over a PS3 for BluRay, especially since the PS3's BluRay playback is just as good.
$200 isn't bad, though still not in the "affordable" range for most when it comes to a player. Though remember though, VCRs were once as expensive as these players, and so were DVD players so it won't be long before they get into "affordable" range. But one thing I think will make a big factor in the future of this format war: Storage with PC drives, once they get cheap enough. Obviously that's BluRay's advantage, a single-layer BD-Rs (25gb) can store more than a single-layered HDDVD-R (15GB), and you got the fact that I haven't seen any HDDVD-Rs around or HD-DVD burners, but most stores have BD-Rs and some have BluRay burners. But only time will tell though with all of this.
I do want to get a HD-DVD drive for my Xbox 360 however since there's movies on HD-DVD I do want, like Shrek the Third and the Matrix Trilogy. But most of the movie companies, as well as most of the movies I want are on BluRay however, and I already own afew such as Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End, 300, and SpiderMan 3 (which came with my PS3).
But once again, its good to see players on the BluRay and HD-DVD sides going down, because I feel price is one of the factors, as well as the obvious issue of the format war and the annoying format-exclusives.
I just want ONE of these formats to finally win, though it might not happen for a long time. I heard the VHS vs BetaMax format war lasted for about 10 years... I just hope this one doesn't last that long.
Also, the extra features offered in Profile 1.1 and 2.0 are nice but their just extra features. What counts most on both sides is the movie and it being as crisp and clear in HD as possible. Heck, I rarely ever mess with the extras to begin with.
"PS3 when you get ALLOT more out of a PS3: A game console, a multimedia hub that views photos, plays video files (though needs DivX, thankfully I got my Xbox 360 for that), plays music, can stream content off of a network, browse the net (though the Wii browser is FAR, FAR better), as well as play DVDs and BluRays"
This assumes consumers care about that stuff. The reality check for Sony and MS - nobody gives a flying f^ck if the box can stream music, view photos or browse the network. They just want a cheap way to watch movies. Any idiot can hook a Windows Media Center PC to a TV and do all the things you mentioned; but the majority of the population shrugs when presented with those abilities.
Price the Hd-DVD players and BR at $100 and you know what, it still won't cause them to take off. Why? Well, most people in the USA don't have even 1 HDTV. Thus all the image quality stuff is lost on them. They're not even getting 1080i, so why would they care? Subtract better picture quality and HD-DVD/BR offer somewhat better features; but to most people the features aren't viewed either. People rent films to watch a film, not to see how the costumes were made or to watch a gag reel. Where's the hook for joe consumer? Slightly more expensive movies? slower load times? Harder to find films?
DVD from VHS offered a leap that made Joe Average think it was worthwhile - no rewinding, faster accessing, less degradation, better picture (without a new TV), small space.
HD-DVD/BR don't have tangible benefits for most buyers in the USA.
"I do want to get a HD-DVD drive for my Xbox 360 however since there's movies on HD-DVD I do want, like Shrek the Third and the Matrix Trilogy."
If you can wait, the Matrix will be out on Blu-ray soon. And once Paramount's deal with Toshiba is up (another 15 months?), then you'll see Shrek 1-2-3 on Blu-ray too.
I bought one of these players when they first came out and it sucked, a lot. It takes 10 minutes just to heat up and start and it froze during every movie. I had the player replaced thinking mine was faulty and same thing, I switched to Sony.
I own both a PS3 and the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player. I want blu-ray to win. I don't understand how anyone can defend HD-DVD. I know that it has some features like PiP that blu ray is only now getting but this seems so irrelevant. I don't know if I'm off here but I just can't imagine that more than 10% of people care about PiP (and i think that 10% is a very generous estimate).
Another argument: The picture quality is the same or better on HD-DVD. This one makes me laugh. First of all I will concede that early HD-DVDs did look better than early Blu-rays. This changed very quickly and now Blu-Rays look by and large the SAME as HD-DVDs. BUT they are only the same because the studios master them for the lowest common denominator (aka HD-DVD). If these movies were mastered only for blu-ray they would take advantage of the additional space, have a higher bit rates, and look better. Basically blu-ray is being held back by HD-DVD.
I want to address another issue from earlier in this thread. The PS3 works WONDERFULLY as a Blu-ray player. I the reader who complained the PS3 did not accept blu-ray discs must have had a damaged unit. I can't speak to the exact numbers but I read somewhere that the PS3 has a VERY LOW FAILURE RATE. Especially when you compare it to the 360. I also owned a 360 and experienced the dreaded Red Ring of Death. The PS3 is a great system and is the best value for the price of all the consoles. Before anyone starts bashing me, I realize that not everyone needs what the PS3 offers but if you simply look at what it can do compared to how much it costs it is truly amazing that Sony is offering it for only 400 bucks.
Finally, and this is the nail in the proverbial coffin for me, Blu-Ray BLOWS HD-DVD AWAY WITH ITS SOUND QUALITY. There is no comparison. I have heard both on a $80,000.00 sound system (Recording Studio that I work for) and it is CLEAR TO ANYONE that blu-ray sounds better. The difference isn't as noticeable on my fairly modest home setup ($500.00). I can still hear the difference and I bet even the "Average Joe", that HD-DVD fans keep referring to, could.
I have to address DRM. This is where HD-DVD has a leg up. It really doesn't matter to me. And anyone who really cares about it should know about anyDVD. It's a program developed by Elby/Slysoft that removes DRM from DVD's HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays. I would argue that everyone that really cares about DRM issues at this point in the game is a "Power User" Peopl who read engadget know how to use a computer and realize how pointless DRM is. BD+ was cracked before it was even publicly released (if memory serves me).
HD-DVD seems like a short sighted technology. What would you want the inferior capacity. Capacity is EVERYTHING. Better PQ, Lossless AQ, better for storage... etc. This is what Blu-Ray offers. The ONLY problem I really see right now is price and DRM. DRM is inconsequential for many of the people who care to look around. Price is close enough that I don't think there is any sort of problem for Blu-Ray. I do think they should be EXTREMELY aggressive with their pricing. But as long as they are within 50% or so I don't think that it will hurt them too much. Please HD-DVD fans try to explain to me what I am missing. I just don't see any reason whatsoever why anyone would want to support HD-DVD. Remember that movies cost more on HD-DVD so the lower price of the player is quickly ofset.
Explain it to me HD-DVD fans. I'm not trying to be a fanboy but when it comes to Blu-Ray I just can't help it. It just seems like it's better in every way that really matters. I'm not unwilling to change my mind. I really am curious to hear (non-flaming) comments about why YOU want HD-DVD. Sorry if my post seems to be flaming I tried to be as dispassionate as possible.
Blu-ray isn't being held back by HD-DVD... using MPEG-4 (like both do) even a dual layer DVD has enough capacity to hold an HD movie. Adding extra storage space won't increase the picture quality above what it already is.
The appeal of HD-DVD over Blu-ray is price. Picture quality between them both is identical. Sound quality CAN be identical (its player and not format dependent). The extra capacity on Blu-ray isn't being used and isn't an advantage at this point in time. Maybe in the future when we move to 2K or 4K resolution, but for now it isn't doing anything for us.
There are some of us that are absolutely fed up with Sony and their proprietary formats and DRM schemes, and don't feel like supporting their attempts to cram another one (two?) down our throats. Blu-rays do look and sound amazing, but they really don't (when it comes down to it) have any real-world advantage over HD-DVD or even an HD movie compressed in MPEG-4 on a DVD. We're already getting some pretty amazing looking HD video via satellite TV using MPEG-4 over a much smaller pipe than even DVD offers; the extra storage on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is currently overkill.
Personally I'm not actively supporting Blu-ray or HD-DVD until the players are cheap enough that I can have them in every room of my house. I have a handful of movies on each format, but I'm getting tired of not being able to play them anywhere other than my home theater (with the notable exception of the HD-DVD combo discs). I'm certainly not going to buy two copies of a movie just so I can play it in multiple locations. So for now I'm still buying DVDs. And with a good upscaling player, I'm not missing out on much.
"Blu-ray isn't being held back by HD-DVD... using MPEG-4 (like both do) even a dual layer DVD has enough capacity to hold an HD movie. Adding extra storage space won't increase the picture quality above what it already is."
Wrong, wrong, wrong. For a 3+ hour movie with lossless audio, it certainly matters, and it's true that from dual support studios, like Warner, Blu-Ray is being held back by HD DVD being the lowest common denominator.
Jeebus, you're aware that Dolby TrueHD = lossless, correct? PCM is a complete waste of space...good thing Blu-ray has all those extra gigabytes so they can most efficiently use them by putting out movies in MPEG-2 with uncompressed PCM audio, huh?
And the biggest reason to support HD DVD over Blu-ray? Sony. I, for one, am absolutely sick of their market strong-arming and their complete arrogance. If they weren't so dead set on controlling every market they enter by using their bullshit proprietary formats, they'd be doing a hell of a lot better financially as well as look much better in the public eye. Their management talks out of its ass constantly, saying the most repugnant and ridiculous bullshit seemingly on a daily basis and they aren't exactly trying to hide the fact all they care about is getting your money rather than actually give you a worthwhile product.
So yeah...that's one of the biggest reasons I support HD DVD. Not to mention the region-free discs, limited anti-piracy measures and, oh yeah, A FINALIZED SPEC THAT HAS BEEN DONE SINCE LAUNCH.
So for those of you that actually want to comment on this item and not what's in your pants (read: AV Rack), I can answer a few details.
The player has been permanently lowered to $399.99 to respond to Sony's recent drop in the price of the BDPS300 to $399.99. Samsung, in a strong bid against the PS3 and its up hardware sales thanks to the $399.99 tag, reacted by offering the retailers a $100 "Trailing Credit". This allows the stores to sell at $299.99 without personally taking the hit on the lower price. So me and my high end shop have the player at $299.99.
It will go back to $399.99 after the holiday rush, so if you want a 300 blu ray, buy now -- or wait for august!
Did anyone else notice that the picture is cut off so that the word "Toshiba" in the bottom right corner looks like "Toshit"?
I feel like a conspiracy theorist.
Best Buy has it for the same price, if anyone wants to pick it up in store.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp;jsessionid=3ER2T3EVV4FIVKC4D3GVAFI?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=bdp1400&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960
thats true this BR player is nice, but i myself have a 360 HD DVD player and yes it gets the worst rating of the other HD stand alone player and maybe worse than the ps3, but the diffs. are not so major, i usually see like color discoloration on a persons face from time to time, but other than that, watching king kong, 300 and especially Transformers, it's an awesome HD player. yes, HD DVD players have been selling alot more than BR players, so sony better hope they have more sales like this to stay on pace with HD...n yes ppl who have ps3's do buy BR movies, but it's not like buying a standalone b/c you know for sure ppl are buying movies for it...also seeing how ps3 has about 2-3 games worth buying, theres nothing else to do but watch movies on it...my cousin and friends do this currently with the ps3...it seems like all games that come out on 360 and ps3, the 360 version is selling way more b/c of xbox live and achievements...woo hooo....
if i could find a ps3 for about $200, i would buy it for the BR movies thats for sure...but i do hope that BR does lose to HD...sony always trying to make extra money and coming out with new stuff when they could've easily went with the norm and follow HD......sony is trying to confuse users..hehehe back at you M. Bay...j/k
this BR player is going on sale b/c of the new standards and that's a big plus HD has going for it...you can upgrade the software via ethernet port...though i think BR is finally being smart and getting that feature, i think...just like when sony said the rumble on the controllers were a thing of the past...that was a dumb statement to make b/c they're coming out with controllers with rumble...silly sony...
so in the end go xbox 360 with Halo3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Ninja Gaiden II and all other sweet 3rd party games...and go HD dvd.....
I have no dog in the format war. I don't own a player of either kind as yet and I couldn't care less which of them ends up as the market standard.
But I want to point out that a number of commenters on this are saying that this is good news for Blu-Ray and bad news for HD-DVD. I see it as the exact opposite.
The only reason you'd see quick and major price cuts for something is because it's not selling at the previous, higher prices. So you're left to ask why they had the higher price to begin with. Blu-Ray folks have said their technology is better and, as such, warranted the higher price.
But it wasn't selling at those prices -- as this price cut would suggest. So they're ostensibly having to have a firesale and try to compete on price with HD-DVD. That's fine -- but, again, why was BR higher priced to begin with?
I think this is a grim sign for Blu-Ray, myself. It needed to survive at the higher price point, which is why it's had a higher price point for its existence. It's a more expensive technology...but I'm guessing that people are opting for cheaper over "better".
Wow, competing standards drive prices down. Who'da thunkit?
Blu-boys, you're welcome.
Scott, are you completely clueless? HD DVD ALREADY had their fire sale ... remember those $99 POS 1080i players they were giving away? It accomplished nothing for HD DVD - they still got owned in the sales rankings.
A $300 price is nothing drastic, and if you feel threatened by it (you're obviously an HD DVD supporter in spite of your opening comment) then you've got issues.
Blu-ray simply has a better position and more options to play then HD DVD. Blu-ray is winning the war even with higher prices, what does that tell you? HA!