Oh man, here we go again. Opera just filed an antitrust suit against Microsoft in Redmond's
least favorite place to litigate, the EU. The suit claims that Microsoft is stifling competition by distributing Internet Explorer in its Windows OS. The Norwegian company, backed by the European Committee for Interoperable Systems (ECIS), a long-time opponent of Microsoft, is asking the EU Commission to force Microsoft to comply with industry standards for web browsers and either unbundle IE from the OS or include other browsers along side IE. That would be the Opera Browser we presume, eh Opera (wink, wink). Unlike Apple, Nokia/Symbian, and others who also bundle a browser with their OS, Opera argues that web designers build their sites with IE in mind due to its dominant position in the marketplace and non-compliance with industry standards for web browsing. As such, other browsers won't render some pages correctly -- a disincentive for users to browse with anything other than Microsoft's IE. Sit tight kids, this ride will be bumpy.
Update: Here's
Opera's press release on the matter.
posted December 13th 2007 6:40AM
This is all ridiculous. My Operating System should be able to browse, play media files, and have desktop search out of the box. They aren't stopping me from downloading something else. They aren't stopping me from setting something else as a default browser. They aren't stopping me from doing what I want with my computer.
Fine, by this rationale I demand that OS X stop having Safari included with it. Does Ubuntu come with a browser in the default install? Better get rid of that too.
I'm all for stopping a company from using their power to unfairly rule the market, but this is pushing up against starting to harm consumers in the name of trying to give them "more choice".
Include a dialog box on first run that asks if the user would like to go download another browser if you must. But just because Opera isn't hacking it on their own merits (their WM Mobile browser is amazing) doesn't mean they should get to sue just to refill the company coffers for a bit longer.
/end rant
The funny thing is though is that Without IE, they wouldn't be able to download Opera in the first place unless Opera was bundled with Windows, seeing as how you need a browser in the first place.
Besides IE is so integrated into Windows it would be ludicous to remove it.
If Internet Explorer follows W3C standard everyone can make accessible sites, I think that is what Opera wants to get out of the deal.
Whats the big deal about IE? If you don't like it why not just use FF or Opera?
Opera's crap. They're only suing because they have no market share and want to be sore losers about it.
I am with IE7. Although it doesn't perfectly stick to the W3C standards, it is so far the only Windows browser that supports East Asian vertical-text display via CSS rules (something that is to be included on CSS3 standard thanks to Microsoft's collaboration with W3C). Well, I mean Chinese-Japanese-Korean vertical text (top-to-bottom, right-to-left) because so far it doesn't support Mongolian/Phags-pa vertical text (top-to-bottom, left-to-right, although Office Word 2007 allows this type of vertical text), but that's something CSS3 will take care of soon. And also, IE6 was the first browser to allow Japanese ruby-text (furigana) to be displayed as they're supposed to be displayed on pure HTML. Last time I used Firefox (it was January 2007, right before I upgraded my system to Vista), it didn't support either vertical text or ruby.
What's the Good Word? To Hell with Mozilla.
How 'bout Those Foxes? Piss on 'em.
Go Explorer!
Regarding Opera, well, I admit I'll have to accept it 'cause it's the only browser available for the Nintendo Wii. This is merely the only reason for Opera to still exist today. Before the Wii came out, I had the belief that Opera was dead very long ago.
Try the beta of Firefox 3. You can get the portable version from http://portableapps.com so you can test without installing it.
I so agree with you. There's obviously alternatives, and if you don't like IE7 or other, get a different browser.
Personally, I really like IE7. For me, it does RSS feeds better, better tabs, and it's just as secure and more compatible with sites.
And for those who say IE7 isn't secure, maybe you should actually try it. IE7 is not IE with a 'few' features. It's very secure, and nothing bad has ever happened to my computer with it. So stop with the lies.
I also think IE8 will be completely web standards compliant. Microsoft knows that its losing a browser battle, and Microsoft doesn't give up that easy. Sometimes, Microsoft will take a while to get sense in their heads, but at least they've changed better slightly over the years.
But it's not Cool to sue Apple... I mean they bundle shit too... and then the question of iTunes.... But then they make shiny computers... We can't sue them. Don't be silly.
Opera is the best running browser I've ever used!
not only on windows!
on everysingle device I own, I run opera!
FASTEST BROWSER PERIOD!
I hate to wait even a second when I click back!
and Opera is GREAT for that too, just click back, and instantly you are on your previous page!
It is REAL REAL FAST!
First thing I do when I buy a computer is to install opera!
and on my symbian cellphone too.
If I had an option to buy windows without IE! I'd fooooooooooooooooor sure buy it with NO IE! I truly hate IE!
Why do they just build there own OS. All companies add their products with their products.
If you dont like the way someone or some company does something build you own and stop complaining, if they want their product all over an OS how about building an Opera OS and i bet they would include there products first over other parties.
I dont care if a company puts all their software as the default in their product its their product. Mac OS , Windows OS Linux OS, BSD, Unix who ever. If i dont like the products that are bundled i will find something better.
Name one product that includes the product of another party, besides OS's unless they had made a deal to do so. nothing
1 Would you expect a nokia phone with a motorola charger no.
2 would you see a sony dvd player with toshiba remote no
This is absurd... If Microsoft does not include a web browser with Windows, guess how many consumers are gonna complain... Yeah, the argument that web designers have to design with IE in mind is completely valid, but they fail to see the consequence of not having a web browser in Windows...
I think all this antitrust is really stupid to begin with... Google suing MS for the default search engine and the WMP antitrust... -_-" Why don't people sue Apple for pairing up iTune and iPod?
Don't get me wrong, but if somebody writes Opera is Crap then he/she is wrong. Opera was first browser and only browser that invented and brought to the market MANY features you are using in Firefox and IE7. Opera is a state of the art piece of software when you consider this is a small Norwegian company, privately owned and still can rock the board. By the way - Opera is the only browser that is usable on PDA and a Phone. Forget IE.. (Firefox is also too sluggish, although better than IE). Safari learned much from Opera and if you follow technology of browsers you would find with astonishment how these two browsers are technologically similar. Do your homework before making blunt and uneducated statements.
Oh, come on. Does anybody really think the opera is going to contain anything earth-shattering?
I’d rather choose pubspa.com to enjoy!
one more annoying thing about IE is that it is bound to MSN Messenger - when your default browser is FireFox, and you click on the button to go see your email, it opens it with IE :[
I don't know much about the technicalities of web browsers. Perhaps opera and firefox are better and IE sucks. But either way, MS developed it's own software and it has a right to do what it wants with it. Imagine buying land and not being able to plant trees or build a house. I mean sure there are anti trust laws and shit, but i think they're so full of crap. If someone told me what to do with my products or creations, i'd be pissed as fuck. the better browser wins because people like it better. if people don't think browsers are worth paying for, they shouldn't be forced to pay for it just cause a company that offers it for free and conveniently isn't allowed to.
Thanks to many above for the incorrect history of internet browsing. Do a little reasearch on Mozilla, Netscape, Mosaic and IE and maybe you will find something of value.
There is nothing wrong with bundled products, especially a suite that is designed to work very well together, even if an individual component is not the best within its field. In the past I have used every internet browser made available. I have had issues with every single one of them and I opted to stick with one that has given ME the best overall experience. That is my choice.
There are many products that are developed that ensure exclusivity to software and other hardware that we overwhelmingly accept and that is not such a bad thing. We buy a digital camera and are only allowed to use one type of memory storage, our video game systems only "license" select software and sign exclusivity deals to ensure others cannot offer the same software for use on other gaming systems. I want to be able to watch a HD Disney title on my HD-DVD but thanks to exclusivity deals I cannot - I am forced to buy an inferior quality product (yes, they have a high defect rate - see any retailer for how many "open item" players they have. It's great that your's works but there are a too many people that have played the return & exchange game far too much.)
The fact is, a company wants more market share and they feel that they can sue their way to get it. If they were to invest the money they are giving lawyers into marketing and R&D they would stand a better chance of gaining market share. If their product is "that great" and we are missing out on something then tell us, show us and maybe we would even want to buy it. Suing another company because they bundle a competitive product with their suite of products is not going to win over consumers. It may even piss them off. I can't tell you how many annoyed people I have dealt with over Word not coming with every PC - imagine the lawsuits if that were to happen.
I have used Opera in the past. Yes, there are some innovative tools and technologies in their product but overall I found it to be an unnecessary addition to my computer. Gotta love that freedom of choice.
If we are going to demand open and free interoperability for one "thing" then we need to demand it for all technology, hardware and software. Put an end to exclusivity deals period. Until then, a company should be able to package whatever products it wants together and have it work whatever way they want it too (with safety and security in mind).
Some of you are not thinking about the end effects. Sure it sounds good in theory to split m$ but think about this. Once they split prices on all their producs will rise. You will have to pay for WMP, IE etc. I'd love to see those comments. Sure IE has it flaws and some are major ones but the competition isnt perfect either. I for one like being able to install a OS without having to download a bunch of stuff in order to get on the web or watch my media. Microsoft should just pull out of Europe and say **** you facists.
They should also prohibit microsoft from upgrading or further distributing IE until it is able to run (and deliver identical renderings) on platforms that compete with desktop and mobile windows OSes. Firefox and Opera do this. There is no justification for microsoft not being able to do a job that is 334.46 billion dollars ( http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=MSFT ) better. Okay, maybe just as good as Firefox and Opera would be fair.
Even if IE eventually gets the standards right, does that mean people will switch to Opera, or any other brower for that matter? I seriously doubt it.
I can understand forcing Microsoft to follow the standards; that's for everyone's benefit. But uncoupling it from the OS? Didn't that happen with WinXP N-Edition (EU's version of XP w/o WMP)? No one, except quite literally a handful, bought it. Forcing a company to pursue a definite money-losing venture is wrong. This is just another example of that.
Opera is the best hands down, but some pages do only render with IE. For instance, just yesterday I became Symbian Certified but in order to download the .cer file I had to use IE b/c in Opera it wanted to save as a internet shortcut. Although Opera has the option to mimmick IE and Firefox, I still enjoy Opera's fast rendering and ease of use (ie Speed Dial).
Personally I don't think bundling a browser with an OS should be considered anti-competitive. There are some things an OS should do out of the box and viewing web information should be one.
Think back to file browsers? There used to be a third party market there even up until Windows 3.11. Do you see all those companies complaining because they couldn't compete with the free Windows Explorer in Windows 95? Then take disk defragmentation, Volume Management, and other things that used to be extra in the DOS days.
There are some things that deserve to to become common place after the pioneering efforts are worked through and the browser should be one.
However, I do agree that Microsoft should make a better effort to become standards compliant. If there was any way to enforce that with a law then I would be in favor.
As a web designer myself, I can't stand writing perfectly good code and then having to figure out ways to get IE to display it accuratly.
Even though it has been put that way in almost every American media, Opera is not trying to directly take the market. The problem with IE is that it reduces the effectiveness of the web developers.
In addition to that, there's more security holes in IE than ANY other browser, amongst other things, the browser is easy to use for hackers to take you credit card credentials and so on.
And it's not like Opera is better for programmers, it improves user experience too by using CSS.
And speaking about extensions, Opera has many of the features that are considered extensions and plug-ins in other browsers built in. Ad blocking, mouse gestures, skins and so on. Other helpful tools, such as the Google Web Accelerator, are easy to use with it. And Opera has helped me much more with its widgets for both work, effectiveness and fun during my browsing, and these can almost be considered plugins, because of their huge adaptability and the large assortment. And anyone can develop a widget.
I can't really come up with anything that I can complain about with this browser, and I wish that Microsoft should learn to play by the rules.
How about when apps like Live Messenger don't respect the user's default browser?
I hope something in all this results in actions like clicking on a link in Live Messenger opening the user's default browser (Opera, Firefox, Seamonkey, Safari, whatever) instead of IE.
I've come across too many people with spyware-infested systems telling me they were using an 'alternative' browser I put on there for them, not realising that Messenger was opening their links in IE, then the resulting web session for the next few hours happened to chance upon some spyware, and...
Of course there are free alternatives to Messenger with varying levels of success that will do the right thing, but many are hooked on Messenger.
Simply respecting the default browser is the bigger issue, I feel.
This follows on from previous dirty games from Microsoft to Opera:
http://www.news.com/Microsoft-behind-12-million-payment-to-Opera/2100-1032_3-5218163.html
I hope Opera kick the company behind the world's unsafest, bug-prone web browser in the arse.
All of you who are defending Internet Explorer have your facts wrong.
For one, it's not as easy as removing Safari. IE has been embedded within Windows, and attempting to "uninstall" it will simply remove it from view. If you do attempt to remove it for real, you end up with system instability. When you attempt to launch a browser through most Microsoft products it will ignore your default browser setting and launch IE instead, even if you "uninstalled" it. MSN/Live Messenger is just one example of something that ignores default settings.
Secondly, the majority of the general public are extremely uninformed about the difference between IE and the Internet itself. They just see the word "Internet" in the name and assume that this is the only way to get online. They use it because it's the first thing handed to them.
I wouldn't hate IE so much if they followed the damn web standards, but every release it's the same backwards degenerate rendering engine. It's a nightmare to debug code for it.