The Netherlands goes open-source in 2008

April 2008. That's the date when the notoriously progressive Dutch government goes open source. The plan was approved unanimously yesterday in a meeting of two parliamentary commissions. The policy dictates that government organizations at the national level must be ready to save documents in the Open Document Format (ODF) by April, and the state and local level by 2009. Use of proprietary software and file formats from the likes of Microsoft will have to be justified under the new policy. The government expects to save $8.8 million a year on city housing registers alone by making the switch. Tough week, eh Microsoft? You'll have to get your OpenDocument plug-ins for MS Office ISO approved on the quick if you want to avoid further trouble.

[Quai-loh @ Dec 14th 2007 6:02AM]

Dutch government a "notoriously progressive Dutch government? Our government? Have you looked at our PM, aka Harry Potter? What have you been using?

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 14th 2007 6:15AM]

Well, you can look at it this way. Under the current US regime, you could likely be tried and hung for terrorism if you referred to the President as a storybook character. At least you have the political ability to still say whatever you want without someone having your job, life, and money seized.

I might have to learn the language (Dutch is it?) and move to the Netherlands after this post.

[RC @ Dec 14th 2007 6:19AM]

@ Andir3.0 - No. Just no.

[Rik @ Dec 14th 2007 6:19AM]

Haha, the JP Harry Potter cliché... you should be more fair since that is not really true anymore since he changed his haircut and glasses ;-).

But the fact remains, notoriously progressive? Ok, so the current administration likes to call itself that but in fact they are quite conservative on more than a few things. BTW, I'm not a real fanboy of the current administration but on the other hand I would like to see them finish their four year term. There were too many unfinished terms in the last couple of years so let them sit this one out.

[Rik @ Dec 14th 2007 6:24AM]

Hehe, good luck Andir. For us Dutch the foreign languages arround us happen to be quite easy to learn. The opposite is not true... maybe this has something to do with the fact that Dutch has influences of German, French and English in it while it also has quite a few unique constructions for making sentences.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 14th 2007 6:33AM]

@RC: Tell that to the lawyers and the radio personalities that aren't allowed to say "fuck" on the radio without heavy fines and or losing their job. I could go on, but that should be enough to show you were I'm coming from.

[Xander @ Dec 14th 2007 7:12AM]

Ha! Agree that the present government is far from progressive for Dutch standards, but compared to the US Conservative right that seems to be in power there now, probably even the Taliban is progressiveby comparison ;-)

[Wwhat @ Dec 14th 2007 7:51AM]

I'm sorry but however you twist and turn it you can't call the present dutch government progressive. Unless you mean progressing to even more extreme conservatism and dictatorial ways?

[Thomas Ricker @ Dec 14th 2007 8:53AM]

I wasn't referring to the present coalition government. It was a reference to a history of policy making which has resulted in such progressive views on same sex marriage, soft drug use, euthanasia, criminal rehab, prostitution, etc.

Thomas

[blarvh @ Dec 14th 2007 6:21PM]

Fox says a suicide pill is being discussed and not very far away.
Also you can marry more than 1 person at a time, according to Faux news that is.

[superaktieboy @ Dec 15th 2007 5:32AM]

oh w/e ... fuck Harry potter en fuck balkenellende (srry the official name is Balkenende, which is the dutch PM, for those who don't know it, and sorry to those who feel intimidated)

anyways.. i used to live in the netherlands and was quite happy, don't worry bout PM/Presidents, shortly he'll have go (yes also Bush has to go), and will not be voted for again ;) even though he has Balkenellende has focked up holland, it will become better as soon as he has to go ;) don't worry lol

greeetzz

[RC @ Dec 14th 2007 6:21AM]

There are lots of real, practical reasons you might use open source software. But fear of proprietary programs and formats is completely trumped up. It's the argument of idealogical activists, and not rational people.

[Bad Beaver @ Dec 14th 2007 6:46AM]

So you mean that the practical reasons, maybe M$ (for example, they come handy here) formats looking like dung on anything but the exact version & system they were made on, if convertible at all, are valid "reasons", but being forced into M$ products because of their proprietary nature and thereby being forced to unwillingly support their monopoly on certain markets is an irrational problem of loco idealists and has no practical reason or consequence. Do I get you right?

[RichardBronosky @ Dec 14th 2007 10:51AM]

Here is reality. Your government relies on proprietary operating systems and office software. Therefore, they use and teach these in their schools. The cost of keeping up with the latest versions is too great. Therefore, the children in the schools learn old outdated software. The children suffer and are unprepared to use the modern features of the software. The children are not comfortable learning BOTH open source alternatives AND the latest features common to both the proprietary and open source software. Therefore, the proprietary software strengthens its foothold. The subjects of the government must purchase the proprietary operating systems and office software in order to do their civic duty of keeping the government in line. Therefore, the proprietary software strengthens its foothold.

Contrast that with the following scenario. Your government uses Free/Libre/Open-Source Software. Therefore, they use and teach these in there schools. The schools have access to and teach the absolute latest software versions. Therefore, the children in the schools learn the latest features common to both the proprietary and open source software. The children are comfortable learning the proprietary counterparts. Therefore, the market penetration of both the proprietary and open source are based on the merits of the software instead of vendor lock-in. The file formats for government documents can be read by the subjects of the government regardless of their software choices. As a boon saved software expenses can result in loosen of taxes on the subjects, improving the service to the subjects, or improving the schools.

But I guess that second scenario is only for a nation full of idealogical activists, and not rational people. ;-)

[rachub @ Dec 14th 2007 12:45PM]

@Richard

I'm not pro-Microsoft or anything, but only teaching "Free/Libre/Open-Source Software" in schools would make them ill-prepared to work in a large majority of the companies in America. I would presume it would be the same in the Netherlands. Just because the government switches to open-source programs, doesn't mean that the rest of the businesses will.

[Jack @ Dec 14th 2007 6:42AM]

A lovely way to say F-U to all the 50$ a peice software companies :)

Happy Holidays

[peshue @ Dec 14th 2007 7:39AM]

I'm not certain about the details but I'm pretty sure that at least a few states are making all their documents available in .odt format. I think it was to comply with the freedom of information act or something like that.

[Steven Sherman @ Dec 14th 2007 8:06AM]

It's unfortunate to see Engadget jumping on the anti-US bandwagon. Microsoft is a great American company that leads in one of the few areas that the US still can lead. I believe what you see in the EU is Anti-US. It should be fun to see how they get support for open source. What about training? The purchase price of the software is only part of the cost. BTW, you can put any document from any application into PDF format, which is an openly published format. Oh, but that's from another US company.

[ScOObyDoo @ Dec 14th 2007 8:28AM]

Ah yes...

If you don't buy our stuff you must be against us?

I'm surprised you didn't accuse them of being terrorists for not using Windows Vista.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 14th 2007 8:49AM]

"Microsoft is a great American company"

I'm sorry, but your wrong. A "great company" would realize the damage it's doing by being as Closed and predatory as Microsoft is.

[Xander @ Dec 14th 2007 9:32AM]

Oh, so every country who does not oblige their citizens to buy Microsoft software is now anti US? What's next, declare us part of the axis of evil for punishing market abuse by Microsoft?

I have nothing at all against Microsoft, I use it daily and would not want to switch. But to me it goes way to far if citizens have to buy Microsoft software to do their tax returns or any other communication with the government.

And if Microsoft would not be so terribly bad in supporting just about every open standard there is out there, there would not be any issue. I am sure that if Microsoft would just natively support Open Document Format, not many people would actually switch from Microsoft as most people (including I) like Office much more than the alternatives.

BTW: The reason many Europeans are indeed getting anti-US is exactly because the 'if you are not with us you are against us' stuff. But most Europeans are much to sensible to let any buying decision be led by that: import by consumers of US goods have naver been higher (thanks to the extremely low dollar).

Also, please remind that the US is exactly doing what you blame the EU of: European companies get fined in the US just for doing business with countries the present government happens not to like (but did like until very recently and probably will like again when that is more convenient).

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Dec 14th 2007 9:48AM]

You could have made your message shorter: "Engadget are commies!!! US ISP - you must ban Engadget!!! Promote US monopolies!!! All your base are belong to us!!!!!"

That would deliver "clear message" (c) G.W.Bush.

[Jonathan Badger @ Dec 14th 2007 8:08AM]

The Netherlands itself is going open source (as per the headline)? Probably there will be forks as they are in most open source projects. Of course, Flanders could be considered an existing fork whose changes haven't been merged in to the main release...

[Rik @ Dec 14th 2007 10:37AM]

Haha, Lol!

[Georg @ Dec 14th 2007 8:43AM]

The City of Munich/Germany decidet few years agor to go with Linux! Argument: Will save 40 Million Euros in 5 years to the City and makes indepndet from Microsoft!

Result: THes still have all installed Microsoft XP, becaus still their Linux is not working proper! Kost of this desaster: 40 Million Euros (approx. 60 Million US$) more in the last 5 years!!!

Out of this reason, City of Munich can not invest money in to Kindergartens and othe sozial needs......

P S: Germann Microsoft Headquarter is in Munich........

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 14th 2007 8:52AM]

Your blaming Linux for the incompatibility of Microsoft based products to other products?

[tomijlahtinen @ Dec 14th 2007 8:52AM]

That is what you get when all of the so called IT-experts and support personel are trained by M$ to use and support usage of M$ products...

[Bad Beaver @ Dec 14th 2007 9:06AM]

Without wanting to put blame on the entire profession, it is blatantly obvious that M$ producing low quality keeps a lot of IT people in best bread & butter.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Dec 14th 2007 9:56AM]

I'm living in Germany and can tell only one thing: the project was used on numerous occasions as scapegoat to push certain political agendas.

Half year after project started it was clear that it would stale and nobody would support it: politicians were consistently interfering with everything what was going on, sometimes putting everything on hold (twice iirc).

Also, add here that Munich excluded many participants by limiting consultants who can participate in the project to only those who are located in Bayern. What'a wise decision it was - when (obliviously) most of German Linux expertise is situated outside of Bayern.

Nevertheless, since the project is run by politicians, it is still running and they are still "on track" (last I heard) to deliver something somewhen. It can't be more certain than usual political project...

[adrian @ Dec 14th 2007 10:02AM]

I would have thought that some pressure on the UN to issue some embargoes on Dutchland until it relinquishes this anti-american stance would do the trick. Failing that, a medium sized tactical attack force, with a subsequent occupation for 4 to 5 years would not fail.

I am proud to be American. I lead my family in our national anthem each morning at breakfast. At school we had an American flag in the corner of the room of every classroom. We would pledge allegiance to the flag every day. We would constantly discuss the greatness of America. Blind Patriotism is the substance of my mantra. I am proud of that and all the rest of you lot should be ashamed to not be American.

I refute these allegations by you lilley-livered commies that I have been brainwashed. America is the greatest country in the world. I admit that I don't have an empirical evidence to back this up, but i am certain all the same.

This whole proposal is against American interests. OK, when I say "American", I mean maybe not Canadian or Mexican or Costa Rican or Chilean interest, but definitely the portion of the American continent that is currently occupied by the United States of America.

Anymore of this talk any we will Nuke your nearly-red (orangy) commies asses.

[Bad Beaver @ Dec 14th 2007 10:13AM]

You had me *rotfl* at Dutchland *g*

I declare this to be the posting of the month, well done.

[adrian @ Dec 14th 2007 10:54AM]

aaah....humour....sweet relief !!

[Magallanes @ Dec 14th 2007 10:49AM]

Be careful that a open source projects can change to close source licensing just with the consent of the owner of the project.

[TG @ Dec 14th 2007 11:55AM]

For those people who think it is "anti-American" to go open source: GE is making an active move away from proprietary software, too.

[Adam Moore @ Dec 14th 2007 11:02AM]

Please, Please, Please remember that Open Formats does not mean Open Source. Anyone can implement an Open Format. All Open Format advocates would appreciate it if people would not make that correlation.

[9bit @ Dec 14th 2007 2:33PM]

This is the beginning of the end... for the Netherlands.

[BelowSeaLevel @ Dec 14th 2007 6:40PM]

I thought that this document format was deemed dead? http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071031-opendocument-foundation-drops-support-for-odf-backs-obscure-w3c-format.html

[Ian @ Dec 15th 2007 2:24AM]

Sigh. Here we go. Let the ignorant zealots from both sides let fly with their spittle laden vitriol. You all look look total asshats.

It is obvious that most Linux zealots do not understand TCO at all. That would be "total cost of ownership." When you have an entire workforce trained one way and just try to flip the switch to another system things tend to go wrong. "IT" is the least of it. Many municipalities run their IT on Linux and desktops on XP. Workers prefer to run on XP (or even some weird telnet terminal shit in a window), as it is what they know and what they use at home. Contrary to what the penguin fluffers would have you believe Linux has not taken anything by storm, other than the basements of dorks and data centers. Half the hardware I have doesn't even have Linux support. The penguin can bite me.

It is obvious that most MSFT backers don't grok the pain of constant updates that break established functionality. Most MSFT backers just think that having half your apps and devices break with a major update is "normal." They're so used to getting boned up the butt by MSFT they've grow accustomed to it. $400 for Vista Ultimate? Are you on crack? Fuck that shit! I have an HP USB2 scanner with auto photo feeder that barely works in Vista, even with the "designed for vista" driver update. I have to run it under XP to get it to work right. Yay for VMWare!

God dammit I'm sick of all you nerdtards going at it about this shit. Go back to arguing about whether Picard could kick Kirks ass or something. Every last one of you suck. Linux doesn't solve any problems. The free is a lie. Vista is a bloated bug farm. It all sucks. I'm gonna go read a book now. Books don't crash.