Apple patent app details automatic iPod volume lowering

Apple's already given self-controlling individuals the option to limit their iPod's maximum volume level, but if a newly surfaced patent application is any indication of the future, your next PMP from the Cupertino powerhouse could actually tone things down for you. Reportedly, the app explains that software could eventually keep track of how long -- and at what volume level -- you've been listening, and if it determines that you could be damaging your ears, the volume could be automatically adjusted down for your own safety. Granted, there's no way to definitively tell whether Apple will or won't implement such a change, nor if owners will be allowed to disable the feature, but really, who could argue with software retarding the rate at which you go deaf?

[Image courtesy of Apple]

[sentinel @ Feb 1st 2008 9:09PM]

Seems to be a 'cover your arse' sort of thing. I listen to my iPod on the train on my way to work (1.5 hours each way); I work at an electric steel mill, which is loud even with ear protection; and I go to bars and pubs every now and again where the conversation and mood music (read: crappy dance/house shit) is nearly as loud. I reckon that if I'm still listening to an iPod 20 years from now, I'd be turning up the volume just that little bit more. If I were to go to court arguing that my iPod ruined my hearing, I'd never be able to prove it.

Then again, looking at the previous comment from Randavance (Dec 24th), looks like some people need this pretty quickly. But that's why I wear ear protection at work - 'prevention is better than cure'. Maybe Apple can also sponsor hearing health classes at high schools?

[slick_shoes @ Dec 24th 2007 8:45AM]

I'll argue against that - I worked as a live sound engineer for six years without earplugs, regularly max-out MP3 player volume levels and can still hear a pube drop. Hands off my eardrums, Jobs.

[a ham sandwich @ Dec 24th 2007 9:54AM]

::loudly:: What?

[Flashpoint @ Dec 24th 2007 10:02AM]

I have powerful subwoofers in my car which I use to blast music. I also routinely listen to music and television loud through a 7.1 surround sound in my room.

I never turn the volume up to the point of "pain" but what I do get sometimes during absolute silence is a ringing in my ear that seems to come and go every now and then.

apparently, hearing is like FINE CARPET.

If you step on it infrequently, it will puff back up still appearing like new - but, if you trample it frequently, it will wear out.

[yoshi @ Dec 24th 2007 11:50AM]

It's about preventing and defending lawsuits. Nothing more. They don't care about your ears or what you do to them. They only care about their bank account.

So, the technology will be there, turned on by default probably but able to be disabled. So people will turn it off. The public will be happy, Apple will be happy, lawsuit scavengers will be crying in their beers.

[redlukas @ Dec 24th 2007 4:05PM]

you know, its one of the three biggest lies of sound technicians to say "yeah, it's gotta be that loud". the other two being "yes, i know what all those controls are for" and "yeah, i've got to be dressed in black."

[Jay @ Dec 24th 2007 7:18PM]

@flashpoint: re "I never turn the volume up to the point of "pain" but what I do get sometimes during absolute silence is a ringing in my ear that seems to come and go every now and then."

That's tinnitis (sp?)
Perminant hearing damage. That's why I'm not a sound engineer anymore.

[Mr. Picklesworth @ Dec 24th 2007 10:12PM]

If you listen for pubes dropping, you seriously need help.
NOW.

[Richard @ Dec 24th 2007 9:01AM]

WOW! Apple has patented AGC (Automatic Gain Control) something that has been around for 30 years.

[telepheedian @ Dec 24th 2007 9:02AM]

This would only work if it was assuming you were using the stock earbuds, forget about speaker docks*, and larger headphones that require a lot of juice.

*Some speaker docks don't use the docking connector, making it impossible for the iPod to detect.

[ssuk @ Dec 24th 2007 10:55AM]

Then turn the feature off?

[Meltz @ Dec 24th 2007 3:02PM]

Yeah, I think it's all about what headphones you're using. For instance, i usually use my Shure earbuds for plane rides and what not, turning my laptop volume to about 1/3 of the max and I can hear fine. However, i once forgot them, so i used the crappy earbuds the airline provided, and i could hardly hear them at max power.

[telepheedian @ Dec 24th 2007 5:24PM]

@ssuk:

Judging by the amount of lawsuits that have been thrown around lately, I see this as a feature that cannot be disabled, considering that European iPods already have software volume limiters built-in.

[Ian @ Dec 24th 2007 9:03AM]

iPod Volume Lowering - Why 2008 will be like 1984.

[BobTurbo @ Dec 24th 2007 9:09AM]

iDad

[quomen @ Dec 24th 2007 9:11AM]

Maybe they should do a location specific volume control so when i'm in the library the volume is lowered a bit and when i'm scuba diving I can ROCK IT OUT!!

[computer.dude.28 @ Dec 24th 2007 9:37AM]

They'd Have to allow you to disable this. What happens when you're plugging in to the line-in of a car or home stereo that doesn't have a dock connector? It's just gonna turn down your iPod when it's on the stereo? Also, different headphones (and types) are different volume levels. The only headphones this would work properly on are Apple's.

[SteveS @ Dec 24th 2007 10:02AM]

I know Apple has to CYA by "patenting" this but it's like patenting the concept of sunscreen to help prevent skin damage. With the way Apple's lawyers are busy this year, it might not be too farfetched for them to start suing other companies for trying to save your hearing...

[ssuk @ Dec 24th 2007 10:57AM]

Well, if all it does is keep tracks at a constant volume level from one another, it can be beneficial for those not using earphones as well, you can have all your music play just as loud as each other, thus removing you to turn up or down that one stray track which is too loud or too quiet.

[computer.dude.28 @ Dec 24th 2007 11:02AM]

ssuk They already have this. It's called auto volume levelling in Windows Media Player, and SoundCheck in iTunes.

[Peter @ Dec 24th 2007 11:30AM]

computer.dude.28 - Have you ever had SoundCheck work well for you? I've never been able to get it to work properly. I can tell it is doing something, but some songs are still significantly louder than others (even in the same genre).

[computer.dude.28 @ Dec 24th 2007 11:49AM]

Peter, I don't use iTunes except for my friend's iPods. I don't have an iPod, I use the Zune, and I love it. I've never actually used soundcheck, so I can't help you there.

[M @ Dec 25th 2007 11:07PM]

computerdude28 I too now have a zune. What do you use to level the volume of the songs on the Zune player?

[computer.dude.28 @ Dec 25th 2007 11:12PM]

I don't think Microsoft has put this into the latest Zune software. The latest zune software is lacking in a lot of areas, such as auto-playlists. The next version should have these features, as a lot of people are complaining. Including me. I have 8 auto-playlists that manage my music. Now I can't put them on my Zune. Just gotta wait it out till the next version.

[Miles @ Dec 24th 2007 10:19AM]

Cupertino does it again!
I'd probably disable this but it is a genius idea.

[lalo @ Dec 24th 2007 10:33AM]

wooow!

[Ethan @ Dec 24th 2007 10:47AM]

I'd definitely ask for better lyrics implementation before this. Or a whole manner of things.

[taiki @ Dec 24th 2007 12:01PM]

Isn't Apple currently in hot water with France because of this very thing?

[Sound Adivce @ Dec 24th 2007 10:52AM]

The analogy about fine carpet is actually a pretty good one. Except that you can occasionally trample your carpet so much in a single session that it will never recover...

Here's the problem - and what should concern Cupertino is that this situation is not totally unlike the whole "hot coffee" lawsuit involving McDs a few years back - there is a large body of science which has quantified how hearing can be damaged by prolonged exposure to noise (just as there was a large body of science quantifying water temperature, skin contact duration and the likelihood of a second or third degree burn will occur as a result).

The problem is that the iPod can deliver a dangerous dose of sound - something the attorney's will love to capitalize on. Why? Because once you've lost your hearing, it is gone - no amount of money can *fix* it. "Pain and suffering" awards are likely to be through the roof. In reality, it is a huge liability.

The idea here is a good one - though not foolproof because different types of earbuds will deliver sound differently. And they'll probably implement it along the lines of 'disable this at your own risk".

[Peter @ Dec 24th 2007 11:30AM]

Sound Adivce - I wonder if there would actually be less liability by not implementing this. Seems to me they would be far more liable if someone was using the feature and still lost their hearing. At least if they don't have the feature Apple could just say it was the users' fault, "We told you not to listen to it that loud all the time."

[Nick Catalano @ Dec 24th 2007 10:52AM]

I would like this simply because when I put an iPod on and press play I don't want to get my ears blown out the second I press play because someone else set the volume different for a different jack. If that happens I have to quick fumble with the iPod to get the volume down or pull the earbuds out of my ear (or try to do both in a panic)

[allenvanhellen @ Dec 24th 2007 11:15AM]

How 'bout they just get "sound check" to work correctly!

[Randavance @ Dec 24th 2007 11:27AM]

I personally stay between 40% and 70%, but then again I use good, dorky, Sennhiesers that are made of more advanced audio work and am afraid of damaging them.

One of my closest friends listens to her ipod maxed out an it's gotten to the point that from 5 feet way you can here the horrific crackling of her blasted out earbuds. At the same time she seems to be loosing her hearing as a result, and blames Apple for making an iPod that can be turned up so loud.

Some people in the world just need something like this.

[Tom @ Dec 24th 2007 12:14PM]

This won't be applied to the iPod. There's no feasible way to determine SPL just from the output on the iPod's headphone-out, because headphones of different impedances will result in different volume levels at similar output levels. It might work if every person in the world used the 16 Ohm Apple earbuds, but other people use 32 Ohm portables, and still others use 300+ Ohm cans (although they should really be using a separate headphone amp *anyway*.

I think a better solution to this would just be to make future iPod purchasers take a common sense test before forking over their money - or a required-to-watch video tutorial on how not to be a moron when the iPod is first turned on.

[cody Peacock @ Dec 24th 2007 12:18PM]

yes but what about those who are hard of hearing i need my ipod up almost all the way up so i can hear it at a level i enjoy so make this something we can turn off because really i dont want to give up my ipod for something inferior just so i can hear it

[Andy @ Dec 24th 2007 1:21PM]

I use an iPod for audio at various events, run through a sound board. This would seriously jack things up if it started screwing with the volume levels when I'm trying to keep everything sounding good. I loved the 1984 comment by the way, it was exactly what I was thinking.

[St. Stephen @ Dec 24th 2007 1:52PM]

umm I'll be honest I didn't read the article, spent the whole time staring at that hottie in the pic! =x

[Rik @ Dec 24th 2007 2:12PM]

When I read this I thought wow, that's great. Tthough I was thinking it would be even better if your device would lower it's volume automatically when someone is speaking to you. Then it struck me that was a very bright idea i just had... so I went to have a look at Espacenet (European patent datebase...); Darn! Somebody thought of it before me :-P. However, I also found Apple's patent as a result of my search query... how come nobody ever thought of this before?

[derX @ Dec 24th 2007 2:35PM]

Finally, the day has come:

Apple has a patent on (sound) control. What a surprise.

[Che @ Dec 26th 2007 5:33PM]

Bad idea. The damage totally depends on the headphones used. My sound isolating Etymotic in-ear phones will do a lot more damage at the same volume setting than the iPod standard phones. They're just louder, maybe because almost all the sound ends up in my ear, rather than annoying people nearby. Add this feature and you've accepted liability for any fool who still manages to damage his hearing ("I thought it was safe because I used my iPod's don't-blast-my-ears-out feature. It hurt, but how was I supposed to know that it only worked if I used the standard headphones?").

[dave lemke @ Dec 25th 2007 12:02PM]

you just wanted to use the word 'retarding' in a sentence, didn't you?

[M @ Dec 25th 2007 11:10PM]

I agree, soundcheck does not work consistently. Although this is about a different matter- not volume between songs, but rather just overall keeping the volume too high for ear health.

[freakmarket @ Dec 25th 2007 11:28PM]

Grrrr ... Steve Jobs tells me i don't want subscription music ... now he wants his iPods to think for me too? ... no thanks.

[Zak @ Dec 26th 2007 12:02PM]

Subscription music? Seriously? You like to rent music instead of own it? And I bet you have a problem with seat belts too, I mean stupid car manufacturers, trying to stop you from flying through the windshield in an accident. That should totally be your choice! Oh wait, it is your choice. Just like how if you don't like the volume limiting feature, you will be able to turn it off and damage your hearing all you want. Your choice!

Now what was your problem with Apple again?

[freakmarket @ Dec 26th 2007 1:23PM]

Renting my music is WAY cheaper than buying it ... plus my music collection isn't limited to my budget.

With renting i can download a cd ... listen to it ... if i don't like it i'm not out $10. I just move on to another artist ... i've discovered a ton of bands that i wouldn't had been exposed to if i had to buy each and every cd to listen to it.

I only pay $15 per month for a HUGE selection of music ... thats the cost of ONE cd ... i don't get why people are so thrown off by the whole concept ... is it because Steve J told you you wouldn't like it?

It's quite logical and it's the number one reason people buy MP3 players from MS, Creative, and Sansa.

As far as your seat belt analogy that's just silly.

[Zak @ Dec 26th 2007 4:03PM]

Of course renting music is cheaper. That's because you have to give it back. Personally, I like music enough to own it. Paying to listen to music and then give it back just seems like a spectacular waste of money to me. I think actually throwing money away is almost as bad. And then if you decide you like the music you can buy it - and then you've paid for the music AND you've paid to RENT the music. Awesome. Yeah, I think I'll stick with just buying music I like, thanks.

And yes, Steve Jobs personally told me I wouldn't like renting. That's because I can't think for myself at all, and I'm not even writing this. Steve is. Weird, huh?

And sure, describing how you have a choice as to whether you damage yourself or not is silly. Got it. Choice is bad.

[freakmarket @ Dec 29th 2007 9:05AM]

Your logic is flawed ... give music back??? I've been doing the music subscription thing for over a year and yet to have to "give music back" ... i'm spending $15 a month instead of $50-100 like i used to.

[silvarga @ Dec 26th 2007 8:19PM]

Here they go again patenting some bullshit and they still won't give us a moth*rf*cking equalizer.