Palm Foleo: the exclusive first and final hands-on
by Ryan Block 
posted Dec 27th 2007 at 12:09PM
Back in 2005 we got a once in a lifetime scoop -- the Treo 700w -- that proved once and for all Palm was doing non-Palm OS devices. Then, earlier this year, we were there when Jeff Hawkins announced the ill-fated Foleo at D5. We got the first ever hands-on of the thing, and eventually wrote a letter to Palm which not only prompted a public response from CEO Ed Colligan, but that many attributed as a cause of the Foleo's death. And lucky us (we think?), we managed to snag one of the few Foleos ever produced.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dirk @ Jan 24th 2008 3:43PM
Wow, coming up to a month now. So how long is this going to take?
Did you guys lose the Foleo?
DM @ Feb 7th 2008 8:04AM
Sadly, those keep saying that Foleo is NOT a laptop and blame people (including Engadget) to cause the canning of Foleo totally miss the point.
Why is Foleo such a failure?
#1 "Foleo is not (marketed/designed as) a laptop!"
This is joke. Can't you see that most people out there do not SEE that Foleo is not a laptop? It has almost the same specs as a small laptop, with all too similar functionalities. How you market it does not mean how the market perceives it, and crucially it's the market who defines the nature of this kind of consumer electronic products.
#2 "Foleo is unique because it realizes a tight integration with Palm smartphones"
Again, this is another grave mistake.
Perhaps those insisting on this point sees the Palm smartphone market as the whole world.
The market of Palm smartphones is shrinking. Only a fragment of US consumers subscribing to the unlimited data plans can really benefit from this device.
*Most* mobile phone users worldwide do not own a Treo or even don't know what palm is.
The current Palm OS platform is already outdated and its functionality hasn't changed over the last solid five years.
Palm functionality? Isn't there already JPilot, Kpilot, Gnome-pilot...what have you, and also Evolution?
#3 "Foleo is not that expensive because of the mail-in rebate."
Again this is very american-centric. There is unlikely to be such thing outside the america.
I got my Eee PC 701 (black 4G) just for about 275 usd.
#4 "Foleo is all I need! I only do browsing, emailing and document editing on the go."
What so special about these use? Aren't these what most laptop and handheld users do on their machines?
Good brower? Can the one (modified Opera) on Foleo really fare as nicely as Firefox that also launches in a couple of seconds?
Email clients? In what sense is Foleo's better that the tons of choices in *nix?
Office suite? Does DTG come close to OpenOffice? Where is the international language support?
Additional software? Can someone give me a pointer to the development community for Foleo? How big is its software support compared to the *nix community? And SDK?
Instant on/off? Though not really instant, my Eee PC (running ubuntu) can suspend & resume in around 5 seconds.
Why the Eee PC is selling so fast (perhaps even faster than iPhone)? Are the buyers/users/sellers all out of their mind?
Dirk @ Feb 8th 2008 4:27PM
I don't like the Eee's small screen and it looks to much like a toy for me.
bulls96 @ Feb 15th 2008 4:39PM
Getting close to 2 months past, still no reviews.
We foleofanatics havent forgotten about this Engadget. Where is it? :)
James Flowers @ Dec 27th 2007 12:18PM
If they can make them cheap enough, add some educational software and sell it as an OLPC competitor. Would have loved a machine like this when I was at college. Hate lugging a large expensive laptop around. Would still like one for sitting in front of the TV and surfing.
W00ter @ Dec 27th 2007 12:30PM
@David Clark
Wow...couldn't have said it better myself. Engadget was WRONG on this one.
W00ter @ Dec 27th 2007 12:31PM
Wow, what happened to David Clark's response???? Did Engadget delete it??
Ryan Block @ Dec 27th 2007 12:34PM
I hold by the judgment. The Foleo is not only twice as much money as the Eee PC, it also strapped Palm for resources when they should have been focusing on fixing what already ails them. They just had one of their worst quarters ever because they can't even sustain their cellphone business -- the Foleo is a bad distraction and would have been a major mistake that put them even further behind the game.
Now, if Palm spun off their Foleo business so it didn't impact their phone business, that'd be another story entirely. But they didn't.
David Clark @ Dec 27th 2007 1:09PM
Money and specs doen't matter when two different time frames are in consideration. What I buy a laptop for today is no comparison to 5 or even 2 years ago.
Thanx for the delete. I look forward to another.
realitycramp @ Dec 27th 2007 1:31PM
Ryan,
Asus is selling the eeepc by the boatloads. This has a better screen, keyboard and feel(according to various reports). This product would likely be selling just as well and helped swing the financials. Palm really needed to be relevent again. A new product category was the way to do it, not a new os for an old form factor.
I really think you missed the mark on this one, but most of the time I agree with you.
ChrisG @ Dec 27th 2007 4:21PM
I'm gonna have to go with Ryan on this. If you look at the software hands on gallery, you can see that Palm is honestly confused as to what the Foleo is supposed to be used as. For instance the Foleo was built as a laptop, but Palm limited it by just creating the Foleo as a "companion" for your smartphone. If Palm had just stuck to making a laptop built for productivity, like most, or just something simple like the Eee Pc then the Foleo could have been more successful.
yelohbird @ Dec 28th 2007 12:46AM
What people need to realize is that this is NOT a standalone laptop like the EEEpc or the OLPC. This was designed to work WITH your PalmOS-based Treo. So if you didn't already own a Treo (which is very likely considering Palm's diminishing market share), it doesn't make sense for you to buy a Foleo.
Palm had big dreams to use the Foleo to drive its sluggish Treo sales, but ended up with a product that at best could probably milk a little more money out of its shrinking existing user base.
That said, I am still a die hard user of my Treo 650. Aren't you guys supposed to give away what you review? If yes, can you please send it to me? Thanks!
Randavance @ Dec 28th 2007 2:16PM
This brings us back to a reveiw of the machien early on (I can't rmember who it was, if someone can find the link, put it up) where the reveiwer said the machien was nice and fun to use, but he thought Palm was going the wrong way in tying it to handhelds.
This could be an awesome Linux laptop with the incredible handheld compatibility just as an extra feature.
I don't really want Palm to enter the laptop business, but if I could get Ubuntu on this thing, and even keep the handheld compatibility, not only would I be taking this off to collage next year, but I would probably go out and buy a new PDA to complement it!
Rick @ Dec 30th 2007 6:39PM
Ryan Block and Engadget really have to go into the douchebag Hall of Fame. Talk about bad journalism: they write a column that the Palm CEO evidently thinks is inflential enough to can the Foleo, and then Asus goes out and creates a runaway popular eeePC machine that fits into the exact same niche as the Foleo. Recently Palm laid off a boatload of engineers, one of whom is my cousin. Seriously, Ryan Block, if I could legally hit you with a car, I'd do it.
paragraph @ Dec 27th 2007 12:20PM
... you're much too inviting
1. Will it blend
2. Does it run OSX
3. Is it an iPhone
4. Is it mac compatable
5. Can i have it?
6. Why do you hate palm so much :'(?
phrozunsun @ Dec 27th 2007 11:32PM
clearly, you forgot to ask if it plays doom. I, and the rest of Engadget are thoroughly disappointed.
Ryan Block @ Dec 28th 2007 3:45AM
All our cliches are belong to paragraph.
Except that one.
Pat @ Dec 27th 2007 1:37PM
Terminal !!!
This is what I wanted my NEC780 to do; 5 years ago.
Matthew Hilario @ Dec 27th 2007 12:24PM
OMG I THOUGHT IT DIED!! GO AWAY!! DIEE!!! NOOOO!!
Xenoterranos @ Dec 27th 2007 12:32PM
Well are you happy Engadget? Have you done enough cradle-bound gadget-strangling to slake your dark thirsts for yet another year??!?!?!?
Big Wizz @ Dec 27th 2007 12:26PM
Can it run 16-bit game Emu's?
that would kick ass.
sanjay @ Dec 27th 2007 12:38PM
is there anyway, i can get this, money is not an issue.
OneLove @ Dec 27th 2007 1:09PM
engadget foleo giveaway!
webon @ Dec 27th 2007 8:52PM
I second sanjay for reals
Yevon @ Dec 27th 2007 12:32PM
I really do not see why you people despise Palm so much. I recently bought the "dated" Treo 650 and absolutely love it. For one thing, it does not have the many, many problems I encountered with Windows Mobile. Also, it's fast. Very fast. And, yes it plays DOOM with no problem.
You give the EEE PC so much coverage and act like it's magnificent, but this Foleo looks even better. Why you gotta be hatin' like that?
PS - Why are there scratches on your Foleo?
Erwos @ Dec 27th 2007 12:34PM
My wife has a Treo 650. It was nice to begin with, but began accumulating cruft over time, to the point where it's now slow and unstable. Whine about WinMo all you want, but you're going to be wishing for it in a year from now.
The reason everyone hates on the Foleo is because it was overpriced. Are you willing to spend $600 on a laptop that can't even play YouTube videos? I'm not. And no one else was. The software looks good, though - they could use that kind of wizard for doing BT phone connections in standard operating systems.
perfectionist @ Dec 27th 2007 1:36PM
The EEE is cheaper and appeals to the mainstream market.
The EEE also has twice the power (albeit with a smaller screen) and uses a standard x86 processor, along with a more widespread inux distro.
CullenS @ Dec 27th 2007 1:02PM
I don't blame engadget for scuttling the Foleo, but I do wish Palm had released it. For me, it was a near perfect, laptop-killing, device. I would have used it in conjunction with a desktop machine and would have used the Foleo just for web-browsing, RDS'ing to my work computer when necessary, email, and low grade Office stuff (essentially what I use my laptop for now.) It would've been a crappy gaming device and if I were trying to run experiments to prove cold fusion, I'm sure I would've been disappointed. But guess what - I don't do that stuff for work. I just do my regular, uninteresting, work.
I would've been happy to be able to have a very lightweight, instant on, easy to use, sync with my phone, mobile experience, for just $500.
I hope the rumors of a Foleo II are true. I hope Palm's management has the courage of its convictions next time and, to the extent it happened this last time, doesn't allow itself to be bullied out of a business plan by the chattering masses. Honestly, after all the R&D and production work, just weeks away from the release, how much more would it have cost Palm to release the Foleo even if my sense of its marketability was wrong?
Paul @ Dec 27th 2007 4:21PM
But the fact still remains that you can almost find a cheap laptop for $500 and it will be able to do way more than the foleo ever could.
The EEE pc is $200 cheaper, has a faster processor, and can do more than the foleo.
There is no denying that the Foleo is cool, but I think that Palm was right to kill it off.
OneLove @ Dec 27th 2007 12:54PM
...bung-holeo.
strider_mt2k @ Dec 27th 2007 12:59PM
If you want to know why Palm is despised, take some time and research the products, the company, it's (former) operating system and it's community (If there is one left. I left long ago.) and watch how it took a great thing and let it decay into a mere shell of what it was due to slothfulness, greed, and corporate shenanigans.
Evan Rodgers @ Dec 27th 2007 1:07PM
Seriously Engadget, I come to your site so that I can find out about gadgets I WANT. I kind of dislike it when you take part in killing a gadget I want. This thing could have been an eee pc killer, but no, you had to kill it. As for the price- it would have come down with the eee as competition. I really don't think its your responsibility to tell corporations what is or is not a good business decision. The Foleo could have really helped palm. I'm not directing this at any particular engadget writer, but I am really disappointed in you guys.
Thanks a lot.
perfectionist @ Dec 27th 2007 4:00PM
It would have never killed the EEE.
The EEE is cheaper and appeals to the mainstream market.
The EEE also has twice the power (albeit with a smaller screen) and uses a standard x86 processor, along with a more widespread inux distro.
Kiteless @ Dec 27th 2007 2:42PM
This is NOT an Eee PC. It is not even a laptop. It is a companion to a failing PDA/Smartphone platform and an answer to a problem that does not exist for 99.9 percent of the tech users out there. Yeah it has a bigger screen, bluetooth, (WiFi? Can't remember) a bigger keyboard. But it sounds to me like a locked platform with a locked set of software. That's a deal killer for me and I think most people. I can not stress enough, the Folio and the Eee are NOT competing devices.
What is Engadget? They are a tech blog not a news site. My opinion is that they can post what ever they want. If they want to make an open letter to someone about something, what is wrong with that? Did the letter cause Palm to can the Folio? I think only Palm knows that for sure. So many of you have this pipe dream of what the Folio was going to be and how the price would drop to "compete" with things like the Eee PC.
Since they have one I do have questions about the Folio.
Am I wrong? Can you format the "disk" in the device and install any OS you want? If no can you install 3rd party apps? Are there Windows drivers? Does it have WiFi? Can you upgrade the RAM? Can you connect it to a VGA monitor? Ethernet? How much storage does it come with? Expandable via SD or some other format? These are the questions I have about the Folio.
- Kiteless
Evan Rodgers @ Dec 27th 2007 4:14PM
Yeah, it could have been cheaper. But the foleo is an eee killer TO ME. It looks better, has a larger screen, and I think its a little lighter. All I want is something small, instant on, that has a large screen so I can write on it without squinting, and also has wifi. This fills those perfectly, and I think that everyone here is just outright bashing it just to be on the bandwagon. I can only hope the Foleo II has a better CPU (hey palm, one word - silverthorne) and more ram.
MosquitoControl @ Dec 27th 2007 1:13PM
Wow. So Endgadget is claiming to have made a fairly major corporate decision for Palm, eh?
Taking quite a bit of credit, no?
Jim @ Dec 27th 2007 1:21PM
Why is Engadget reviewing a Powerbook Duo?
Geoffrey Sperl @ Dec 27th 2007 3:46PM
Hey, PowerBook Duo 2300s are kick-ass laptops.
Well, kick-ass for 1997.
I had set my wife up with a used one (and the whole DuoDock, etc.) when she was doing her graduate degree and it worked wonderfully for her.
But, yeah, I get the same feeling when I see a Foleo.
David Clark @ Dec 27th 2007 1:18PM
And.. not to beat a dead horse, but the idea of integrating two devices is one that I think will be a reoccurring theme. Not to bash Apple, I love my Apple products, but is the Newton going to be seen as a distraction from the Apple computer/iPhone/iPod world? And why buy it when you can get an ASUS for a quarter the price?
First gen products are always an expensive mess. And Palm would still be sinking, Foleo or not. But it would've at least given them a leg ahead of the oncoming flood of cheap pseudo laptops to come.
David Clark @ Dec 27th 2007 1:19PM
Supposed to be reply to topic 1
Irfan @ Dec 27th 2007 1:21PM
its palm's own fault for listening to bloggers. engadget didn't force them to stop production, they suggested it, and palm listened (maybe foolishly). Really shows the state of their market research team when they take business strategies from bloggers... If they are so keen on listening to bloggers then why haven't they updated their OS? The company is a mess and its not engadget's fault.
Terc @ Dec 27th 2007 1:28PM
Youch, this looks very similar to System 7, right down to the fonts, maybe a striped down version though, Apple released created this gui in 1991.
Just as a refresher, check out this flash version of the old System 7 gui. http://www.my-old-macintosh.de/
dualcoremania @ Dec 27th 2007 1:32PM
would you have bought one of those if they had actually released them?
Terc @ Dec 27th 2007 1:34PM
Ha, yup, looks like a Powerbook Duo running System 7 to me, this is about 15 years behind the times. Looks like Palm DID add a cell phone to it though... Not much in the way of progress considering it took them 1.5 decades to manage it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_7_(Macintosh)
Dhomas @ Dec 27th 2007 1:34PM
If the price was right, this could have been a great product! It does not appear all too different from the eee PC in scope. The only difference is that it had the additional feature of tight integration with other Palm products. It does not appear to be dependant on the Treo as I was previously led to believe, but could be its own stand-alone product with the Wifi only connection. I think Palm could resurrect this device, but they should probably wait until they have a new OS for their smartphones so the Foleo could integrate better with it.
Joey Geraci @ Dec 27th 2007 2:03PM
I'm sorry, but both Palm and Engadget got it wrong here. That is abundantly clear with the current massive popularity of cheap small laptops.
dan @ Dec 27th 2007 2:11PM
wow, didn't realize they had ported Mac OS 9 for the Foleo... amazing!
Bryan @ Dec 27th 2007 2:17PM
I used the Foleo for a couple of months during the beta and loved it. too bad it didn't get released but I do see why it didn't tigher software intergation with the palm smartphone line up will make the foleo even better.
xkevin @ Dec 27th 2007 2:36PM
This was one of those things that people saw blue and complained its not red.
I'm disappointed this didn't make it to market. A small, notebook-like device that could tether out-of-the-box would have been great for those of us with unlimited data plans on our Treos...
daveb @ Dec 27th 2007 2:40PM
It seems that if you drop a 32gb solid state drive in there, it rocks everyones world.
Ah what could have been. Palm comes so close, but then seems to either mess up the price point or the completeness.