Phenom upgrade poses problems for AM2 motherboard users

It looks like AMD users hoping to pop one of those speedy new Phenom processors into their old AM2 motherboard for a bit of a boost could be in for some trouble, at least according to the folks at Tom's Hardware, who recently put the processor to the test with ten different mobos. After their usual thorough testing, they found that the processor didn't work well at all with eight out of the ten motherboards, despite earlier promises by AMD to the contrary, and the other two had problems of their own even after a BIOS update. That left them with no other recommendation than to tell folks to hold on to their good 'ol Athlon 64 X2, at least until AMD lets loose the so-called Phenom B3 stepping processor in the second quarter of next year, which should iron out all the bugs, and give motherboard manufacturers time to get their act together as well.

[Thanks, Mack Swift]

[Snipermonky @ Dec 28th 2007 11:26AM]

These "reviews" should have been posted ages ago. Hopefully I dont have to wait long to slap one of these into my PC. I'd rather not fork out a considerable amount of money to buy a new motherboard and processor.

[kuthippie @ Dec 28th 2007 11:49AM]

christ...amd get your shit together! even i'm running on intel now.

[I LOVE THE CAPS LOCK KEY @ Dec 28th 2007 10:44PM]

It's not AMD's responsibility to make sure every motherboard has an up to date BIOS. Rather put the blame on lame and lazy motherboard support crews. AMD sent them Phenom engineering samples before the retail or oem product ever shipped. Shame on you Foxconn, MSI, BioStar, Gigabyte, and EpoX for no updates to support Phenom. Foxconn is 9 months behind on this.

Kudos to ASUS for keeping on the ball. You will be rewarded with more bu$ine$$.

[John P @ Dec 28th 2007 11:49AM]

I was misled by the title that Tom's Hardware used, which made me think it was a problem with the processor. Rather, most motherboard manufacturers simply haven't made bios updates yet. Of course, it's a bit annoying, and I'm glad I didn't buy a Phenom hoping it would work, but its really all up to the mobo makers. Oddly enough, after reading the article I checked if my motherboard works, and there was a bios update on christmas day...but without an update to support the new Phenom processors. So I guess I'm stuck for awhile.

[bobartig @ Dec 28th 2007 4:41PM]

Didn't the article just say that this would require a new stepping, meaning a hardware revision of the Phenom chip, to become compatible?

[John P @ Dec 28th 2007 5:02PM]

Engadget's blurb isn't completely correct. Although the stepping issue is a problem as far as Phenom is concerned, it doesn't have anything to do with compatibility. The Tom's article says at the end:

"It's difficult to say if it is AMD who could have done more to facilitate BIOS updates, and if the TLB bug had an influence on BIOS releases. It is likely that some motherboard makers prefer to wait with releasing Phenom enabling BIOS updates until the workaround can be implemented."

So you are partly right - the stepping issue needs to be solved. But at the same time, it is the manufacturer who updates their BIOS to work with the new architecture, and we have seen that both Gigabyte and ASUS have done this. The others just need to follow suit.

[giantenemycrab @ Dec 28th 2007 11:50AM]

AMD seems to be confused as to where it's place in life should be. They were releasing solid, cheap, yet powerful mid-ranged procs(the 64 X2) then they introduce this Phenom. It's quite puzzling. With it's 4 cores and the price tag to match, it seems they are gunning for the enthusiasts, but don't bother making it any better than the Core 2 Quads, or for that matter, the Core 2 Duos as far as performance goes.

I'm not one of those people to predict AMD's doom, that's been done for years and they're still here, but I really think they should figure out what they want to do with the brand. High end AMD? Make procs worth the price! Mid range? Improve upon the 64 X2s while keeping the price and performance right.

[paragraph @ Dec 28th 2007 12:18PM]

Serves you right for even thinking about somethign so un-natural as a 3 core processor :-P

Seriouslly though, AMD Jumped the shark this time, time to dust them selves off and develop some wild process, a 3.66ghz, 2048mhz fsb, 45w, 32nm, 8 Core Processor with an 8x4mb L2 for under $100 sounds just the thing to go and bring them back from all this ;)

[Tim Ficke @ Dec 28th 2007 12:28PM]

Do you mean under $1000?

[jdblaich @ Dec 28th 2007 12:26PM]

Engagets review of the review is wrong.

What the tomshardware article simply pointed out was that without a bios upgrade you can't get the motherboard to recognize the new processor by simply plugging it in.

You have almost never been able to get motherboard/bios to recognize a newly released processor without a bios update. Almost never has this ever happened.

This has nothing to do with AMD. AMD is creating processors. AMD is not creating the bios nor the motherboards.

When AMD came out with the dual core 939 the same issue resulted. You needed to pressure your motherboard manufacturer to come out with a bios update. Many did. Not all. Those were the manufacturers that you wanted to stay away from. On the Intel side you were always required to buy a new motherboard with a new chipset. AMD has twice released a product that can be put into existing motherboards, albeit with a motherboard manufacturer's updated bios.

The title of the article is misleading and the way it was written is also misleading.

This is not an AMD issue. This is a motherboard issue.

[Sean @ Dec 28th 2007 1:04PM]

Tom's Hardware is right on.

When they first tested the Phenom, it failed (miserably) to the similarly priced Core 2 Quad. Tom's Hardware, always an AMD fan, said that the Phenom's saving grace was that it was backward compatible with the AM2 boards, something Intel has no promised for the 45nm chips. This was an important promise by AMD as it can cut the cost of an upgrade by $100-$200, but perhaps not one they should've made. As you noted, it is up to the motherboard manufacturers to release BIOS updates to make their boards compatible with the new chip.

That said, they did promise backward compatibility, and it doesn't exist for most of the motherboards out there now, even from big-name enthusiast companies.

To me this feels like AMD once more plagued by hubris and situations out of their control.

[Broo @ Dec 28th 2007 12:26PM]

I have the Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (w/ latest BIOS) and upgraded to an Phenon 9500 with no issues (well, none that I have noticed- but what is it all about this 'TLB bug'?)

[Joshua Walters @ Dec 28th 2007 1:25PM]

Of course, the day AFTER I order my Phenom, this gets posted.

Well, I bought an AM2+ mobo, and the reviews on newegg seemed to indicate that people had no problems with it, so best of luck to me and my 9600.

[coolant8 @ Dec 28th 2007 2:53PM]

Whoever choses AMD chip over C2D deserves trouble.

[John B @ Dec 28th 2007 3:52PM]

Gee. Just a bit of an Intel fanboi, perchance? {roll eyes} All of my PCs are AMD-based and they do everything that I want of them, including modern gaming. So, please take your fanboi-ism and go engage in self-fornication.

[David Clark @ Dec 28th 2007 2:55PM]

?? I've never bought a proc without a mobo to go with it. Its like buying a new engine without getting the rest of the new car.

[degac @ Dec 29th 2007 3:23AM]

Well, it's not an AMD fault. It's a mainboard manufacturer's fault.
If they don't update the BIOS - of course - new Phenom will not work or work less than expected.
Customers should complain with these companies that dont' offer support.
The only conclusion is the AMD's image is *damaged* - and now we have another 'issue' for Phenom, after the TLB bug (if ever exists): 'AM2 Mainboard doesn't work with Phenom'

[Hector James @ Dec 31st 2007 3:28AM]

Your article is being advertised at AMDZone.com

http://www.amdzone.com/amdzone/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=27&func=view&id=134472&catid=52